Maybe if we could get him for $10m? or less as a one year stop gap or two years at the most. He will be 31 next season. They’re $20m over at the moment. His $14m would go a long way.
RE: He is scheduled to make $19m in salary and bonus
Maybe if we could get him for $10m? or less as a one year stop gap or two years at the most. He will be 31 next season. They’re $20m over at the moment. His $14m would go a long way.
2 things:
1. Why would keenan allen do that?
2. His cap hit is all that matters. They can easily manipulate the cap hit to fit their needs, but it would have to be a multi year contract.
With little to no dead cap… he’s getting up in age though. I’d pass on him and D-Hop, both are talented and could help but are on the older end. I just want to hit big on a WR in the draft. Let’s bring in Jerry Reese to evaluate these WRs lol
Maybe if we could get him for $10m? or less as a one year stop gap or two years at the most. He will be 31 next season. They’re $20m over at the moment. His $14m would go a long way.
2 things:
1. Why would keenan allen do that?
2. His cap hit is all that matters. They can easily manipulate the cap hit to fit their needs, but it would have to be a multi year contract.
Easily? They are $24.5 million over the cap going into the new season.
Maybe if we could get him for $10m? or less as a one year stop gap or two years at the most. He will be 31 next season. They’re $20m over at the moment. His $14m would go a long way.
2 things:
1. Why would keenan allen do that?
2. His cap hit is all that matters. They can easily manipulate the cap hit to fit their needs, but it would have to be a multi year contract.
Easily? They are $24.5 million over the cap going into the new season.
You misunderstood. He asked if the Giants can get him to 10M and I said yes, easily.
Not interested unless he came cheap, which he wont
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
RE: before getting cut why not trade for him? his 16m cap number isnt bad
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
I guess it’s because it’s an asset gone with no long term value unless you extend him. He’d probably want to hit FA as soon as possible so a 1 year extension for a bit more guaranteed doesn’t seem like a smart play from his perspective.
and to be clear the trade would be a day 3 pick like cooper last year
allen is older than cooper was so that's a downside but he's still a really solid player and there's no reason they still couldnt look to draft a WR high.
RE: RE: before getting cut why not trade for him? his 16m cap number isnt bad
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
I guess it’s because it’s an asset gone with no long term value unless you extend him. He’d probably want to hit FA as soon as possible so a 1 year extension for a bit more guaranteed doesn’t seem like a smart play from his perspective.
he's entering his age 31 and coming off a year with injuries with only $1.5m left guaranteed on his deal.
if you have that contract and can credibly leverage keeping him without needing to manipulate it for cap room, in which case he won't hit FA until his age 32 next year or 33 year the year after, you can give him 10-15m guaranteed reasons to play ball on a more team friendly deal extension now since he has $0 guaranteed on this deal after this year.
RE: RE: RE: before getting cut why not trade for him? his 16m cap number isnt bad
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
I guess it’s because it’s an asset gone with no long term value unless you extend him. He’d probably want to hit FA as soon as possible so a 1 year extension for a bit more guaranteed doesn’t seem like a smart play from his perspective.
he's entering his age 31 and coming off a year with injuries with only $1.5m left guaranteed on his deal.
if you have that contract and can credibly leverage keeping him without needing to manipulate it for cap room, in which case he won't hit FA until his age 32 next year or 33 year the year after, you can give him 10-15m guaranteed reasons to play ball on a more team friendly deal extension now since he has $0 guaranteed on this deal after this year.
maybe I’m way off on what he’d get but $10-$15m seems really light, especially with the direction the position is going as it relates to the cap. Doubling that guaranteed seems completely reasonable with the way things are going.
maybe I’m way off on what he’d get but $10-$15m seems really light, especially with the direction the position is going as it relates to the cap. Doubling that guaranteed seems completely reasonable with the way things are going.
if you trade for him and have cap room he's not hitting UFA.
on the UFA market im not sure what he gets right now. he missed half the year with hamstring issues (which he's had before) and he's 31.
just like OBJ it's hard to say what teams are going to be willing to pay.
really anxious about signing aging vet WRs with injury histories?
YEs about 75% of this place doesn't want to sign anyone older than 27 and forget it if the guy suffered even one injury over his career. Never mind that healthy guys seemingly get hurt just as often or that no team is just giving away a 26 yera old WR.
Also, that 26 year old WR will cost an absolute mint, which will then lead to the same people throwing up their lunch because we paid someone a lot of money.
If you want to get a vet WR, he's probably going to be older or somewhat imperfect. The key is to find the guy that is underrated and has 2-3 years of good play in him. Not all 28-30 year old players are ready for the glue factory. This needs to be absorbed by so many. THAT guy is the bargain. That older guy that knows how to prepare for each game and season and may in fact even be a healthier more stable option than the "perfect" 24 year old.
Every time we see a player older than 27 avail himself to the trade or FA pool half this place lets rip a big fat nope without considering the big picture.
Some of the best FAs of all time were older. Some of the biggest busts of all tie were younger.
Allen might be a guy you can get on a nice deal for 1-2 years. He had 4-5 straight years of being relatively healthy before this past season. Dude is a gamer.
Hes always on the injury report and he's gotten hurt during games often. He may not have missed a ton of games on the box score, but that can be deceiving. He's quite injury prone and it's often muscle pulls. He does seem to play through a lot though.
I'm not saying I wouldn't sign him because I'd def consider it.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
Im in agreement with this take. Hopkins over his career has been quite durable. Is he an increased risk over say a younger guy like DJ Moore? Sure but he also isnt injury prone like Golladay was or Keenan. He also won't cost a #1 like some of these other guys like a DJ Moore if he were available would cost. If we want to use our #1 for a top WR I would have no issue going the Hopkins route as a 'bridge' to our draft pick becoming a reliable #1.
before this season, he played 16 games in 4 of the previous 5 seasons. And in that one year, he missed only two games.
There are several reasons to avoid signing him - which are legit - but let's not make it seem like he's got an injury history like Sterling Shepard or anything.
before this season, he played 16 games in 4 of the previous 5 seasons. And in that one year, he missed only two games.
There are several reasons to avoid signing him - which are legit - but let's not make it seem like he's got an injury history like Sterling Shepard or anything.
Speedy didn't realize that. I though he was more injury prone than that in recent years. Thats puts him firmly in the 'yes' conversation for me vs stay away depending on cost.
As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
There certainly is some dead money involved as trades but Adams for instance is 'only' a 14M cap hit this year with about 7M in cap savings if designated as a Post June 1 trade. So while their is some dead money I don't think it would pre-clude the entire potential of a trade if they wanted to move on from him and get a high round pick
Does Hopkins past PED related issues concern you?
He ain't exactly a spring chicken either...
A little but he came in last year and still looked fantastic even with the crap show that Arizona was with poor QB play for much of his active game time. I think he was on pace for like 1400 yds extrapolated over a full season.
I'm not looking at him as a long term solution but a 'bridge guy' maybe 2-3 years until someone else takes over as the #1. That also means I'm not giving up a #1 for him either.
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
RE: RE: before getting cut why not trade for him? his 16m cap number isnt bad
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
a day 3 pick for keenan allen at a cap hit half of the top wrs for 1 year with no guaranteed money risk? yes.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
If the choice ended up being getting an 'older' #1 level WR not 33-34 or older mind you but 29-31 vs. not getting one at all , I would definitely be on the side of taking the risk.
This team biggest improvement would likely come from having that #1 on the field for DJ. A draft pick at 25 so many things have to fall right. First, one of the highly grade WRs have to make it to NYG's pick. We saw what happened the year we wanted Dovonta for instance. 2nd a GM has to guess right on the guy he takes not just on talent but ability to stay healthy and withstand NFL punishment's week in and week out. 3rd the team has to hope the learning curve is small and often times it still takes a year or 2 even for the polished guys to firmly establish themselves as reliable #1 options.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
LOL, he's 6-2, 211, how does that qualify as small?
He's not the same player he was, even when he was on the field
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
We are going to draft a few players at WR and having a Vet presence like him would good for the yound guys imo.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
LOL, he's 6-2, 211, how does that qualify as small?
Calm down i was mistaken. Christ you guys cant wait to find something to laugh at.
Allen is in fact widely known to be more of a slot WR than a true outside WR. He can play on the outs sort of like Victor Cruz maybe, but he's been called one of if not the best pure slot WR in the game.
I should have said that more than the size thing. Allen doesn't really fit the bill in what NYG needs.
We are going to draft a few players at WR and having a Vet presence like him would good for the yound guys imo.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
Good perspective Rudy. He isn't as injury prone as I originally suspected either. Depending on price he could be a very good option.
RE: RE: RE: before getting cut why not trade for him? his 16m cap number isnt bad
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
a day 3 pick for keenan allen at a cap hit half of the top wrs for 1 year with no guaranteed money risk? yes.
which gettleman move does that sound like to you?
You're ignoring the injuries (which usually get worse in a WR as they age). He played in just 11 games in 2022 because of a hamstring injury that he reinjured a couple of times. He was questionable for three other games spread throughout the season and doubtful once as he kept aggravating the hamstring (sound familiar, wonder how you felt about Toney). He missed one season with an ACL tear and surgery, and sprained it again a few years later. He's had surgery on his ankle. He's had a sprained PCL, and shoulder joint. Not to mention less serious ankle, hip and groin issues.
Golladay was four years younger when Gettleman signed him coming off one year of injuries. And he had no previous injuries to speak of before that year.
The Giants need a No. 1. Get a true No. 1 and it makes everyone else a little better because of how the defense has to adjust. Allen is not a No. 1, and may no longer be a number 2. At best, if you trade for Allen, you are paying an aging no. 2 receiver, No. 1 receiver money at $15 million at age 31 and $18 million at age 32. PLUS giving up draft picks to get him. How is that NOT a Gettleman move? Wait, maybe even Gettleman wouldn't do that.
When you have as many holes as the Giants you don't give up draft picks for a guy who will not be a No. 1 who is making that much money. Allen would be incredibly valuable if he is cut and they can sign him for much less. Just for the experience he can share with the young receivers if nothing else. But not at $33 million over two years in his 30s. And not by giving up draft picks.
You can find what Allen can give you on the field in the 2nd, 3rd, maybe even the four round of the draft for a whole lot less money.
keenan allen had 5 straight years of almost 100 receptions before the hamstring injury this year (and he was on pace for another one after returning healthy and finishing a strong second half).
trading for him means 0 guaranteed money on effectively a 1 year deal worth 16m.
you realize 'go get a #1' means:
trading at least 1 first round pick (perhaps closer to 2 depending on who)
20-30m AAV on a multi-year contract
probably 50m+ guaranteed?
don't need him since we're going to draft the Princeton WR at #25.
No to KA. As others have said he's too injury prone, too old, and would cost too much money. I'd rather resign Slayton, he's drops notwithstanding. And James.
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
And keeping our first round pick allows us to likely select one of Johnston, Addison or Njigba if we so choose.
I'm not opposed to the lower contract and lower draft picks to give up especially if it means we try to find the future #1 replacement high in the draft. Him or Hopkins are interesting options for that reason. Yes the age is a bit higher risk but then they get to draft a guy too bc they keep their #1 and possibly even #2 pick.
As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
There certainly is some dead money involved as trades but Adams for instance is 'only' a 14M cap hit this year with about 7M in cap savings if designated as a Post June 1 trade. So while their is some dead money I don't think it would pre-clude the entire potential of a trade if they wanted to move on from him and get a high round pick
I don't think you can designate a trade as post-6/1 the way that you can a release. You can make the trade after 6/1, so the post-6/1 cap impact rules would apply in those instances, but I don't think you can use a post-6/1 designation before June 1st in a trade because it would essentially mean that another team is floating you a reserve on cap space until 6/1.
I could be 100% wrong on this, but intuitively it feels like the sort of collusive circumvention of the cap that the league tends to frown upon.
2 things:
1. Why would keenan allen do that?
2. His cap hit is all that matters. They can easily manipulate the cap hit to fit their needs, but it would have to be a multi year contract.
I could see more brand name WRs becoming available because of cap pressure. Mike Thomas of the Saints, Evans/Godwin of the Bucs.
Quote:
Maybe if we could get him for $10m? or less as a one year stop gap or two years at the most. He will be 31 next season. They’re $20m over at the moment. His $14m would go a long way.
2 things:
1. Why would keenan allen do that?
2. His cap hit is all that matters. They can easily manipulate the cap hit to fit their needs, but it would have to be a multi year contract.
Easily? They are $24.5 million over the cap going into the new season.
Quote:
In comment 16025706 BillT said:
Quote:
Maybe if we could get him for $10m? or less as a one year stop gap or two years at the most. He will be 31 next season. They’re $20m over at the moment. His $14m would go a long way.
2 things:
1. Why would keenan allen do that?
2. His cap hit is all that matters. They can easily manipulate the cap hit to fit their needs, but it would have to be a multi year contract.
Easily? They are $24.5 million over the cap going into the new season.
You misunderstood. He asked if the Giants can get him to 10M and I said yes, easily.
I guess it’s because it’s an asset gone with no long term value unless you extend him. He’d probably want to hit FA as soon as possible so a 1 year extension for a bit more guaranteed doesn’t seem like a smart play from his perspective.
Quote:
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
I guess it’s because it’s an asset gone with no long term value unless you extend him. He’d probably want to hit FA as soon as possible so a 1 year extension for a bit more guaranteed doesn’t seem like a smart play from his perspective.
he's entering his age 31 and coming off a year with injuries with only $1.5m left guaranteed on his deal.
if you have that contract and can credibly leverage keeping him without needing to manipulate it for cap room, in which case he won't hit FA until his age 32 next year or 33 year the year after, you can give him 10-15m guaranteed reasons to play ball on a more team friendly deal extension now since he has $0 guaranteed on this deal after this year.
Quote:
In comment 16025753 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
I guess it’s because it’s an asset gone with no long term value unless you extend him. He’d probably want to hit FA as soon as possible so a 1 year extension for a bit more guaranteed doesn’t seem like a smart play from his perspective.
he's entering his age 31 and coming off a year with injuries with only $1.5m left guaranteed on his deal.
if you have that contract and can credibly leverage keeping him without needing to manipulate it for cap room, in which case he won't hit FA until his age 32 next year or 33 year the year after, you can give him 10-15m guaranteed reasons to play ball on a more team friendly deal extension now since he has $0 guaranteed on this deal after this year.
I like the deal
if you trade for him and have cap room he's not hitting UFA.
on the UFA market im not sure what he gets right now. he missed half the year with hamstring issues (which he's had before) and he's 31.
just like OBJ it's hard to say what teams are going to be willing to pay.
YEs about 75% of this place doesn't want to sign anyone older than 27 and forget it if the guy suffered even one injury over his career. Never mind that healthy guys seemingly get hurt just as often or that no team is just giving away a 26 yera old WR.
Also, that 26 year old WR will cost an absolute mint, which will then lead to the same people throwing up their lunch because we paid someone a lot of money.
If you want to get a vet WR, he's probably going to be older or somewhat imperfect. The key is to find the guy that is underrated and has 2-3 years of good play in him. Not all 28-30 year old players are ready for the glue factory. This needs to be absorbed by so many. THAT guy is the bargain. That older guy that knows how to prepare for each game and season and may in fact even be a healthier more stable option than the "perfect" 24 year old.
Every time we see a player older than 27 avail himself to the trade or FA pool half this place lets rip a big fat nope without considering the big picture.
Some of the best FAs of all time were older. Some of the biggest busts of all tie were younger.
I'm not saying I wouldn't sign him because I'd def consider it.
Probably.
Im in agreement with this take. Hopkins over his career has been quite durable. Is he an increased risk over say a younger guy like DJ Moore? Sure but he also isnt injury prone like Golladay was or Keenan. He also won't cost a #1 like some of these other guys like a DJ Moore if he were available would cost. If we want to use our #1 for a top WR I would have no issue going the Hopkins route as a 'bridge' to our draft pick becoming a reliable #1.
There are several reasons to avoid signing him - which are legit - but let's not make it seem like he's got an injury history like Sterling Shepard or anything.
There are several reasons to avoid signing him - which are legit - but let's not make it seem like he's got an injury history like Sterling Shepard or anything.
Speedy didn't realize that. I though he was more injury prone than that in recent years. Thats puts him firmly in the 'yes' conversation for me vs stay away depending on cost.
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Higgins is certainly possible
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
He ain't exactly a spring chicken either...
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As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
There certainly is some dead money involved as trades but Adams for instance is 'only' a 14M cap hit this year with about 7M in cap savings if designated as a Post June 1 trade. So while their is some dead money I don't think it would pre-clude the entire potential of a trade if they wanted to move on from him and get a high round pick
He ain't exactly a spring chicken either...
A little but he came in last year and still looked fantastic even with the crap show that Arizona was with poor QB play for much of his active game time. I think he was on pace for like 1400 yds extrapolated over a full season.
I'm not looking at him as a long term solution but a 'bridge guy' maybe 2-3 years until someone else takes over as the #1. That also means I'm not giving up a #1 for him either.
Repeat offenses etc...
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He was awesome this year when he came back.
Repeat offenses etc...
Gotcha
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
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the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
a day 3 pick for keenan allen at a cap hit half of the top wrs for 1 year with no guaranteed money risk? yes.
which gettleman move does that sound like to you?
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I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
If the choice ended up being getting an 'older' #1 level WR not 33-34 or older mind you but 29-31 vs. not getting one at all , I would definitely be on the side of taking the risk.
This team biggest improvement would likely come from having that #1 on the field for DJ. A draft pick at 25 so many things have to fall right. First, one of the highly grade WRs have to make it to NYG's pick. We saw what happened the year we wanted Dovonta for instance. 2nd a GM has to guess right on the guy he takes not just on talent but ability to stay healthy and withstand NFL punishment's week in and week out. 3rd the team has to hope the learning curve is small and often times it still takes a year or 2 even for the polished guys to firmly establish themselves as reliable #1 options.
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I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
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In comment 16025808 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
LOL, he's 6-2, 211, how does that qualify as small?
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In comment 16025808 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
Always thought he was smaller...he's 6'2.
Camera shrinks some by a few inches.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
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In comment 16025859 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16025808 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
LOL, he's 6-2, 211, how does that qualify as small?
Calm down i was mistaken. Christ you guys cant wait to find something to laugh at.
I should have said that more than the size thing. Allen doesn't really fit the bill in what NYG needs.
So it's not really a weird comment.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
Good perspective Rudy. He isn't as injury prone as I originally suspected either. Depending on price he could be a very good option.
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In comment 16025753 Eric on Li said:
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the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
a day 3 pick for keenan allen at a cap hit half of the top wrs for 1 year with no guaranteed money risk? yes.
which gettleman move does that sound like to you?
You're ignoring the injuries (which usually get worse in a WR as they age). He played in just 11 games in 2022 because of a hamstring injury that he reinjured a couple of times. He was questionable for three other games spread throughout the season and doubtful once as he kept aggravating the hamstring (sound familiar, wonder how you felt about Toney). He missed one season with an ACL tear and surgery, and sprained it again a few years later. He's had surgery on his ankle. He's had a sprained PCL, and shoulder joint. Not to mention less serious ankle, hip and groin issues.
Golladay was four years younger when Gettleman signed him coming off one year of injuries. And he had no previous injuries to speak of before that year.
The Giants need a No. 1. Get a true No. 1 and it makes everyone else a little better because of how the defense has to adjust. Allen is not a No. 1, and may no longer be a number 2. At best, if you trade for Allen, you are paying an aging no. 2 receiver, No. 1 receiver money at $15 million at age 31 and $18 million at age 32. PLUS giving up draft picks to get him. How is that NOT a Gettleman move? Wait, maybe even Gettleman wouldn't do that.
When you have as many holes as the Giants you don't give up draft picks for a guy who will not be a No. 1 who is making that much money. Allen would be incredibly valuable if he is cut and they can sign him for much less. Just for the experience he can share with the young receivers if nothing else. But not at $33 million over two years in his 30s. And not by giving up draft picks.
You can find what Allen can give you on the field in the 2nd, 3rd, maybe even the four round of the draft for a whole lot less money.
keenan allen had 5 straight years of almost 100 receptions before the hamstring injury this year (and he was on pace for another one after returning healthy and finishing a strong second half).
trading for him means 0 guaranteed money on effectively a 1 year deal worth 16m.
you realize 'go get a #1' means:
trading at least 1 first round pick (perhaps closer to 2 depending on who)
20-30m AAV on a multi-year contract
probably 50m+ guaranteed?
No to KA. As others have said he's too injury prone, too old, and would cost too much money. I'd rather resign Slayton, he's drops notwithstanding. And James.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Ridley 11.5M cap hit
Kirk 23M cap hit
Jones. 10.5M cap hit
46M to 3 WRs in a cap league is a lot
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
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I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
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In comment 16025998 Kmed6000 said:
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I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
And keeping our first round pick allows us to likely select one of Johnston, Addison or Njigba if we so choose.
I'm not opposed to the lower contract and lower draft picks to give up especially if it means we try to find the future #1 replacement high in the draft. Him or Hopkins are interesting options for that reason. Yes the age is a bit higher risk but then they get to draft a guy too bc they keep their #1 and possibly even #2 pick.
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In comment 16025825 CornerStone246+17 said:
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As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
There certainly is some dead money involved as trades but Adams for instance is 'only' a 14M cap hit this year with about 7M in cap savings if designated as a Post June 1 trade. So while their is some dead money I don't think it would pre-clude the entire potential of a trade if they wanted to move on from him and get a high round pick
I don't think you can designate a trade as post-6/1 the way that you can a release. You can make the trade after 6/1, so the post-6/1 cap impact rules would apply in those instances, but I don't think you can use a post-6/1 designation before June 1st in a trade because it would essentially mean that another team is floating you a reserve on cap space until 6/1.
I could be 100% wrong on this, but intuitively it feels like the sort of collusive circumvention of the cap that the league tends to frown upon.