I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
We are going to draft a few players at WR and having a Vet presence like him would good for the yound guys imo.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
LOL, he's 6-2, 211, how does that qualify as small?
Calm down i was mistaken. Christ you guys cant wait to find something to laugh at.
Allen is in fact widely known to be more of a slot WR than a true outside WR. He can play on the outs sort of like Victor Cruz maybe, but he's been called one of if not the best pure slot WR in the game.
I should have said that more than the size thing. Allen doesn't really fit the bill in what NYG needs.
We are going to draft a few players at WR and having a Vet presence like him would good for the yound guys imo.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
Good perspective Rudy. He isn't as injury prone as I originally suspected either. Depending on price he could be a very good option.
RE: RE: RE: before getting cut why not trade for him? his 16m cap number isnt bad
the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
a day 3 pick for keenan allen at a cap hit half of the top wrs for 1 year with no guaranteed money risk? yes.
which gettleman move does that sound like to you?
You're ignoring the injuries (which usually get worse in a WR as they age). He played in just 11 games in 2022 because of a hamstring injury that he reinjured a couple of times. He was questionable for three other games spread throughout the season and doubtful once as he kept aggravating the hamstring (sound familiar, wonder how you felt about Toney). He missed one season with an ACL tear and surgery, and sprained it again a few years later. He's had surgery on his ankle. He's had a sprained PCL, and shoulder joint. Not to mention less serious ankle, hip and groin issues.
Golladay was four years younger when Gettleman signed him coming off one year of injuries. And he had no previous injuries to speak of before that year.
The Giants need a No. 1. Get a true No. 1 and it makes everyone else a little better because of how the defense has to adjust. Allen is not a No. 1, and may no longer be a number 2. At best, if you trade for Allen, you are paying an aging no. 2 receiver, No. 1 receiver money at $15 million at age 31 and $18 million at age 32. PLUS giving up draft picks to get him. How is that NOT a Gettleman move? Wait, maybe even Gettleman wouldn't do that.
When you have as many holes as the Giants you don't give up draft picks for a guy who will not be a No. 1 who is making that much money. Allen would be incredibly valuable if he is cut and they can sign him for much less. Just for the experience he can share with the young receivers if nothing else. But not at $33 million over two years in his 30s. And not by giving up draft picks.
You can find what Allen can give you on the field in the 2nd, 3rd, maybe even the four round of the draft for a whole lot less money.
keenan allen had 5 straight years of almost 100 receptions before the hamstring injury this year (and he was on pace for another one after returning healthy and finishing a strong second half).
trading for him means 0 guaranteed money on effectively a 1 year deal worth 16m.
you realize 'go get a #1' means:
trading at least 1 first round pick (perhaps closer to 2 depending on who)
20-30m AAV on a multi-year contract
probably 50m+ guaranteed?
don't need him since we're going to draft the Princeton WR at #25.
No to KA. As others have said he's too injury prone, too old, and would cost too much money. I'd rather resign Slayton, he's drops notwithstanding. And James.
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
And keeping our first round pick allows us to likely select one of Johnston, Addison or Njigba if we so choose.
I'm not opposed to the lower contract and lower draft picks to give up especially if it means we try to find the future #1 replacement high in the draft. Him or Hopkins are interesting options for that reason. Yes the age is a bit higher risk but then they get to draft a guy too bc they keep their #1 and possibly even #2 pick.
As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
There certainly is some dead money involved as trades but Adams for instance is 'only' a 14M cap hit this year with about 7M in cap savings if designated as a Post June 1 trade. So while their is some dead money I don't think it would pre-clude the entire potential of a trade if they wanted to move on from him and get a high round pick
I don't think you can designate a trade as post-6/1 the way that you can a release. You can make the trade after 6/1, so the post-6/1 cap impact rules would apply in those instances, but I don't think you can use a post-6/1 designation before June 1st in a trade because it would essentially mean that another team is floating you a reserve on cap space until 6/1.
I could be 100% wrong on this, but intuitively it feels like the sort of collusive circumvention of the cap that the league tends to frown upon.
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In comment 16025808 UConn4523 said:
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I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
Always thought he was smaller...he's 6'2.
Camera shrinks some by a few inches.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
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In comment 16025859 djm said:
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In comment 16025808 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I’m not anti signing older players, I just don’t like the guys like Allen who are always hurt. Hopkins is an older player I’d like assuming h to e trade demands and extension are reasonable.
I Hear you, plus I am not sure we even want Allen as he's more a smaller WR but he does play the outside so who knows.
I am not necessarily dying on the keenan allen hill as much as I am open to getting an older WR this off-season.
Kennan Allen is small? News to me.
LOL, he's 6-2, 211, how does that qualify as small?
Calm down i was mistaken. Christ you guys cant wait to find something to laugh at.
I should have said that more than the size thing. Allen doesn't really fit the bill in what NYG needs.
So it's not really a weird comment.
Im not sure why so many are saying he is injury prone. Do some research. He missed 7 games this year and then prior to that he missed 2 games in 5 seasons.
If he plays 16 games you can pretty much pencil him in at 1,100 yards and at least 6 TDs.
I dont think you would have to break the bank for him either. I would do a 3 year deal and you can make it cap friendly and add void years if needed. He is better than any receiver we've had in the last 4 years.
Good perspective Rudy. He isn't as injury prone as I originally suspected either. Depending on price he could be a very good option.
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In comment 16025753 Eric on Li said:
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the 2024 cap number is unwieldy so ideally you'd want to just redo the whole deal as a more effective 2 year deal, but if traded for he's basically on a 1 year 16m deal. which seems reasonable to me (and they can convert some of that to next year if they want).
So, not only do you want to pay a soon to be 31-year-old guy with a big injury history a lot of money, you want to give up draft picks to get him so that you can pay him more? Eric, Dave Gettleman is posting on BBI under an alias.
a day 3 pick for keenan allen at a cap hit half of the top wrs for 1 year with no guaranteed money risk? yes.
which gettleman move does that sound like to you?
You're ignoring the injuries (which usually get worse in a WR as they age). He played in just 11 games in 2022 because of a hamstring injury that he reinjured a couple of times. He was questionable for three other games spread throughout the season and doubtful once as he kept aggravating the hamstring (sound familiar, wonder how you felt about Toney). He missed one season with an ACL tear and surgery, and sprained it again a few years later. He's had surgery on his ankle. He's had a sprained PCL, and shoulder joint. Not to mention less serious ankle, hip and groin issues.
Golladay was four years younger when Gettleman signed him coming off one year of injuries. And he had no previous injuries to speak of before that year.
The Giants need a No. 1. Get a true No. 1 and it makes everyone else a little better because of how the defense has to adjust. Allen is not a No. 1, and may no longer be a number 2. At best, if you trade for Allen, you are paying an aging no. 2 receiver, No. 1 receiver money at $15 million at age 31 and $18 million at age 32. PLUS giving up draft picks to get him. How is that NOT a Gettleman move? Wait, maybe even Gettleman wouldn't do that.
When you have as many holes as the Giants you don't give up draft picks for a guy who will not be a No. 1 who is making that much money. Allen would be incredibly valuable if he is cut and they can sign him for much less. Just for the experience he can share with the young receivers if nothing else. But not at $33 million over two years in his 30s. And not by giving up draft picks.
You can find what Allen can give you on the field in the 2nd, 3rd, maybe even the four round of the draft for a whole lot less money.
keenan allen had 5 straight years of almost 100 receptions before the hamstring injury this year (and he was on pace for another one after returning healthy and finishing a strong second half).
trading for him means 0 guaranteed money on effectively a 1 year deal worth 16m.
you realize 'go get a #1' means:
trading at least 1 first round pick (perhaps closer to 2 depending on who)
20-30m AAV on a multi-year contract
probably 50m+ guaranteed?
No to KA. As others have said he's too injury prone, too old, and would cost too much money. I'd rather resign Slayton, he's drops notwithstanding. And James.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Ridley 11.5M cap hit
Kirk 23M cap hit
Jones. 10.5M cap hit
46M to 3 WRs in a cap league is a lot
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
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I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
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In comment 16025998 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
I know he hasn't missed a lot of games, but when you look closer, he's missed a lot of games lol. Hes the king of trying to play hurt and getting hurt in the first series. So essentially, he played, but he didn't. He's also on the injury report every single week so he never practices and he's always a game time decision.
That being said, Keenen Allen is a stud WR. To the guy above that said he won't break the bank, you are wrong. Hes going to break the bank.
Recent history says you're wrong; he's missed 9 games in the last 6 years, and 7 of those came this season. That isn't "injury prone"
he paced to catch 100 balls in the 2nd half last year after coming back from injury.
he caught 100 balls each of the last 5 years before that.
he's old and that comes with risk - but that's the only reason why you might be able to get him for a day 3 pick and 16m per year instead of a day 1 pick and 25m per year.
if he was 25 years old he'd cost more than tee higgins or aiyuk.
And keeping our first round pick allows us to likely select one of Johnston, Addison or Njigba if we so choose.
I'm not opposed to the lower contract and lower draft picks to give up especially if it means we try to find the future #1 replacement high in the draft. Him or Hopkins are interesting options for that reason. Yes the age is a bit higher risk but then they get to draft a guy too bc they keep their #1 and possibly even #2 pick.
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In comment 16025825 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
As Guys that could be potentially available via trade. :
Likely:
Hopkins
Possible:
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Keenan Allen
Davante Adams
Jerry Jeudy- less likely due to Payton coming on board?
Courtland Sutton- same as above
Michael Pittman Jr.
Michael Thomas
Less likely:
DJ Moore
DK Metkalf
Am I missing anyone?
Once again.....look at the dead cap hits for Adams, Godwin and Thomas. I don't think any of those guys can be moved.
There certainly is some dead money involved as trades but Adams for instance is 'only' a 14M cap hit this year with about 7M in cap savings if designated as a Post June 1 trade. So while their is some dead money I don't think it would pre-clude the entire potential of a trade if they wanted to move on from him and get a high round pick
I don't think you can designate a trade as post-6/1 the way that you can a release. You can make the trade after 6/1, so the post-6/1 cap impact rules would apply in those instances, but I don't think you can use a post-6/1 designation before June 1st in a trade because it would essentially mean that another team is floating you a reserve on cap space until 6/1.
I could be 100% wrong on this, but intuitively it feels like the sort of collusive circumvention of the cap that the league tends to frown upon.