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| Quote: |
| • Work on the veteran market is chugging along and, at least on the surface, the Giants’ negotiation with Daniel Jones seems to be the furthest one along. The team’s offer is at between $35 million and $39 million per year as of now, per sources, and that would at least indicate there’s a deal to be done here for the 25-year-old former first rounder. Getting Jones done would free the Giants up to use the franchise tag on Saquon Barkley, so being able to finalize something ahead of Tuesday’s tag deadline would be significant. |
if their current offer is 35-39m and he hasn't signed yet, i read that as an affirmative that the plane is going to land right around 40m.
Team DJ: "Gimme $45 million per year.
Schoen: "How about $37.5m, and let's say you lead the league in passing or win the Super Bowl MVP, we'll kick it up to $45 million."
And then lose Barkley, Love and restrict your FA involvement. I highly recommend, sitting back and seeing what happens.
If he gets in that $38 range it means Daboll is full in on him - which is a good thing. Not where I want them to be, but I do believe Daboll and Schoen know a hell of a lot more than I do and most of BBI...
Inconceivable!
$38M will be around the 12th highest paid QB within 2 years.
Haha! Mahomes is getting 45 million per (on average), so DJ is expected to perform on his level at 38 per?
If he's performing at Mahomes level, shouldn't he get the 45 per that Mahomes is getting?
Math must be hard for some people...
Anything of substance over 30m, you have crossed the rubicon now and going forward the next 3-5 years means he needs to win, and win, and win. Period.
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if he gets $38M. I'll expect that kind of production for that money.
Haha! Mahomes is getting 45 million per (on average), so DJ is expected to perform on his level at 38 per?
If he's performing at Mahomes level, shouldn't he get the 45 per that Mahomes is getting?
Math must be hard for some people...
Mahomes will be at 60 million in a yr
Sign deal and he gets full signing bonus plus 2023 salary. That’s gotta be a little more than twice the tag. Has to be an incentive?
11th hour this should be done.
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So the other thread about him getting 40 + is bunk? Grab me a beer. Haha
if their current offer is 35-39m and he hasn't signed yet, i read that as an affirmative that the plane is going to land right around 40m.
Man that's nuts. I have to think the Giants would only be outbidding themselves at that point.
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In comment 16050192 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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So the other thread about him getting 40 + is bunk? Grab me a beer. Haha
if their current offer is 35-39m and he hasn't signed yet, i read that as an affirmative that the plane is going to land right around 40m.
Man that's nuts. I have to think the Giants would only be outbidding themselves at that point.
Are they? I certainly do not like what QBs get, way too much for any of them - except maybe Mahomes. But it is what they get.
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In comment 16050196 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16050192 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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So the other thread about him getting 40 + is bunk? Grab me a beer. Haha
if their current offer is 35-39m and he hasn't signed yet, i read that as an affirmative that the plane is going to land right around 40m.
Man that's nuts. I have to think the Giants would only be outbidding themselves at that point.
Are they? I certainly do not like what QBs get, way too much for any of them - except maybe Mahomes. But it is what they get.
Jones being the first QB up for a contract in this free agency cycle, these negotiations are going to determine what QBs get.
If Jones gets 40, think about what Lamar Jackson's going to want to negotiate for, and he's got a League MVP trophy in the case as ammo.
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Slap the non exclusive franchise tag and be done with it
Eli’s highest cap number was 24 million. Do we think jones is even at Eli’s level?
And then lose Barkley, Love and restrict your FA involvement. I highly recommend, sitting back and seeing what happens.
If he gets in that $38 range it means Daboll is full in on him - which is a good thing. Not where I want them to be, but I do believe Daboll and Schoen know a hell of a lot more than I do and most of BBI...
Mahomes's agent committed legitimate malpractice letting his client get locked into that deal at that length.
FYI he said three years of tags would be 127m so about 42.33M/yr
Pretty obvious the team won’t go over that number.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 16050192 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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So the other thread about him getting 40 + is bunk? Grab me a beer. Haha
if their current offer is 35-39m and he hasn't signed yet, i read that as an affirmative that the plane is going to land right around 40m.
Man that's nuts. I have to think the Giants would only be outbidding themselves at that point.
Well considering he will be tagged at the very worst, he’ll never be able to be on the open market in 2023, so we have no idea what other teams would bid.
🤷🏻♂️
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In comment 16050272 santacruzom said:
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In comment 16050196 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16050192 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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So the other thread about him getting 40 + is bunk? Grab me a beer. Haha
if their current offer is 35-39m and he hasn't signed yet, i read that as an affirmative that the plane is going to land right around 40m.
Man that's nuts. I have to think the Giants would only be outbidding themselves at that point.
Are they? I certainly do not like what QBs get, way too much for any of them - except maybe Mahomes. But it is what they get.
Jones being the first QB up for a contract in this free agency cycle, these negotiations are going to determine what QBs get.
If Jones gets 40, think about what Lamar Jackson's going to want to negotiate for, and he's got a League MVP trophy in the case as ammo.
He’s also missed 10 games in the last two years…
If we don't love one of the QB's, get a 1 year Tag deal with DJ.
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So the other thread about him getting 40 + is bunk? Grab me a beer. Haha
if their current offer is 35-39m and he hasn't signed yet, i read that as an affirmative that the plane is going to land right around 40m.
I imagine the agents will want the cred of $40 aav, plenty of ways you could construct the ability for them to say it without it being likely to be realised or if it did you wouldn’t be caring
If we don't love one of the QB's, get a 1 year Tag deal with DJ.
What does this mean? What if the one QB is Stroud? We can't get Stroud so then what? Also, FA happens before the draft so you can't bail on Jones with the hope of landing one kid out of hundreds in the draft especially when we aren't picking high. And if you go into the draft with a glaring need like that then teams know what your holes are which leads to teams leapfrogging you and we have all seen that play out many times with the Giants. Therefore, you can't say we can't sign DJ with one guy being the backup plan in the draft.
exactly... how would anyone outside of the building know?
slow news day
A $35-$39M deal for an average QB like Jones will be Exhibit #1 for every other QB/Agent tandem in the league looking for a new deal.
To do that they’ll need a couple of receivers whose speed starts with 4.3
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if he gets $38M. I'll expect that kind of production for that money.
Haha! Mahomes is getting 45 million per (on average), so DJ is expected to perform on his level at 38 per?
If he's performing at Mahomes level, shouldn't he get the 45 per that Mahomes is getting?
Math must be hard for some people...
When did he sign that? Two years ago? Around 40 give or take sounds about right for DJ. If mahomes was signing this year he’d be starting at 50+ and probably get close to 70 by the end of it. Kinda crazy how that deal is actually a bargain now
All Mahomes has shown since is why he is elite and can be paid whatever dollars and Kansas City will still win.
Beware of that here.
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contract already looks like a bargain.
A $35-$39M deal for an average QB like Jones will be Exhibit #1 for every other QB/Agent tandem in the league looking for a new deal.
And where the hell do you think the market is at now? This qb market is rediculous and has been heading that way since the cousins deal. I’m not even counting the Watson deal because that’s just Cleveland being Cleveland (although it has put a wrench on some of the other negotiations ie. Lamar).
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In comment 16050274 Mook80 said:
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contract already looks like a bargain.
A $35-$39M deal for an average QB like Jones will be Exhibit #1 for every other QB/Agent tandem in the league looking for a new deal.
And where the hell do you think the market is at now? This qb market is rediculous and has been heading that way since the cousins deal. I’m not even counting the Watson deal because that’s just Cleveland being Cleveland (although it has put a wrench on some of the other negotiations ie. Lamar).
Then don't just follow those that do the ridiculous.
Sheep get slaughtered.
They're gonna settle north of 40. He won a playoff game and Schoen hasnt been effusive in his praise but its obvious they want him. And we'll have a new, more exciting round of teeth gnashing. And national media will have their segments. And other fans will talk shit. Especially Eagles fans, as it's a temporary respite from the realization that Hurts will get more. And then after a few weeks it dies down and, unless he regressed or they fail to build a team around him, no one is going to give a shit about his contract.
The Athletic - ( New Window )
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Some around the league wondered why the Giants are willing to invest heavily in Jones with an extension or the franchise tag. It was impossible to find anyone in Indianapolis who believes Jones will actually get $45 million per year from the Giants, and there were questions of whether any team would come close to his asking price if he hit the open market. The Jones skeptics believe coach Brian Daboll could induce similar production from a much cheaper quarterback.
The Athletic - ( New Window )
Not something we haven’t discussed here.
Are you familiar with the concept of an escalating salary cap and it s impact on current market value for said positions. It s been around for quite a while now , often resulting in players of lesser ability to out earn those with greater ability, it s called timing, you should check it out.
It will be time to produce or leave.
FYI he said three years of tags would be 127m so about 42.33M/yr
Pretty obvious the team won’t go over that number. Link - ( New Window )
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Some around the league wondered why the Giants are willing to invest heavily in Jones with an extension or the franchise tag. It was impossible to find anyone in Indianapolis who believes Jones will actually get $45 million per year from the Giants, and there were questions of whether any team would come close to his asking price if he hit the open market. The Jones skeptics believe coach Brian Daboll could induce similar production from a much cheaper quarterback.
The Athletic - ( New Window )
I'm no expert on coach Daboll's career, but im pretty sure he was OC of more than 1 team that didn't have very good offenses when they had subpar QBs. Daboll is good, but he doesn’t perform miracles.
My guess is Daboll and Schoen know this and they wouldn't even bother negotiating with Jones at this point if Daboll could "induce similar production" out of any QB. And JS and Daboll aren't looking at simply repeating last years output and both expect more from Jones in '23 (w/ better WRs, OL, etc.).
I don't think any fan wants them to give Jones 45M, but if they decide to give him 40M, I'm going to trust them (expecting Jones to take another leap and knowing that 40M might not even be top 10 for QBs in 2 yrs).
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if he gets $38M. I'll expect that kind of production for that money.
Are you familiar with the concept of an escalating salary cap and it s impact on current market value for said positions. It s been around for quite a while now , often resulting in players of lesser ability to out earn those with greater ability, it s called timing, you should check it out.
Lol. I believe Eli was the highest paid player in the league for a little while (higher than Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger, et al.). I'm not comparing Jones w/ Eli, just supporting your point, joeinpa.
In Jones' case, he might briefly be something like 8th highest (depending on structure). Timing is important.
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He better produce total TD’s that start with a 3.
To do that they’ll need a couple of receivers whose speed starts with 4.3
When you make the big bucks, you're supposed to make others better.
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In comment 16050498 The_Boss said:
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He better produce total TD’s that start with a 3.
To do that they’ll need a couple of receivers whose speed starts with 4.3
When you make the big bucks, you're supposed to make others better.
How about making a guy who 31 other teams didn't think was worthy of a roster spot, who wasn't even on a PS in early Nov., look almost like a #1 WR? You mean like that?
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If I loved one of the QB's to draft. The dela looks like it will be near $40M. That's too much. Put the non-exclusive, let someone overbid, then get two draft picks then use your 2 picks plus your pick this year and anything else if you love one of the QB's.
If we don't love one of the QB's, get a 1 year Tag deal with DJ.
What does this mean? What if the one QB is Stroud? We can't get Stroud so then what? Also, FA happens before the draft so you can't bail on Jones with the hope of landing one kid out of hundreds in the draft especially when we aren't picking high. And if you go into the draft with a glaring need like that then teams know what your holes are which leads to teams leapfrogging you and we have all seen that play out many times with the Giants. Therefore, you can't say we can't sign DJ with one guy being the backup plan in the draft.
Are you saying the Giants have no idea what it would take to get Stroud if they loved him and to start with they had 3 first round 2023 picks plus whatever they can throw into the mix?
Why do you assume that the Giants can't leapfrog other teams? Why must you look at it like it would be the Giants that are leapfrogged? Why ever make a trade then with that attitude?
You have to consider that potentially The Giants are in the worst possible place you can be and that is middle-of-the-pack. We are not going 10-7 next year. Our superstar player was our RB who will fade year over year. The future outlook is mediocrity which is the worst place to be.
If this team was "ready" Jones would be terrific. He would be terrific for a team like the Jets or San Fran etc. But his superstar (Barkley) is only short-term who will fade. That $40M can be put to better use. If anything tank next year is much better than being continually mediocre.
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Everything I learned about the Giants at the NFL Scouting Combine
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Some around the league wondered why the Giants are willing to invest heavily in Jones with an extension or the franchise tag. It was impossible to find anyone in Indianapolis who believes Jones will actually get $45 million per year from the Giants, and there were questions of whether any team would come close to his asking price if he hit the open market. The Jones skeptics believe coach Brian Daboll could induce similar production from a much cheaper quarterback.
The Athletic - ( New Window )
I'm no expert on coach Daboll's career, but im pretty sure he was OC of more than 1 team that didn't have very good offenses when they had subpar QBs. Daboll is good, but he doesn’t perform miracles.
My guess is Daboll and Schoen know this and they wouldn't even bother negotiating with Jones at this point if Daboll could "induce similar production" out of any QB. And JS and Daboll aren't looking at simply repeating last years output and both expect more from Jones in '23 (w/ better WRs, OL, etc.).
I don't think any fan wants them to give Jones 45M, but if they decide to give him 40M, I'm going to trust them (expecting Jones to take another leap and knowing that 40M might not even be top 10 for QBs in 2 yrs).
I wouldn't scream at this like what I used to scream at with the stupidity of Gettleman.
So yeah, I'll trust them by not screaming while going on record saying "I don’t like this idea." If what they do turns out well then I will always make it a point to remember how they nailed the most important position on the field.
But if the move proves to be a failure, on the flip side I (and others) will post on here that we did not want this when it happened and hold that against Giants management. And how much do you want to bet that many on here will post after-the-fact that "everyone on BBI was okay with signing Jones for $40m?"
Anything of substance over 30m, you have crossed the rubicon now and going forward the next 3-5 years means he needs to win, and win, and win. Period.
I don't agree. You get him for $30m or $32.5M as an example that would be fine. No way he gets just $30M though. He'll get more.
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In comment 16050498 The_Boss said:
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He better produce total TD’s that start with a 3.
To do that they’ll need a couple of receivers whose speed starts with 4.3
When you make the big bucks, you're supposed to make others better.
I'm an advocate of not signing Jones for near $40M but what do you mean by the above? Jones did make a crummy WR crew better and the team better.
We were 10-7. He outplayed the Minny QB making a ton of money and that QB has Jefferson among other god position players. Jones had a good year.
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In comment 16050509 Ron Johnson said:
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In comment 16050498 The_Boss said:
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He better produce total TD’s that start with a 3.
To do that they’ll need a couple of receivers whose speed starts with 4.3
When you make the big bucks, you're supposed to make others better.
I'm an advocate of not signing Jones for near $40M but what do you mean by the above? Jones did make a crummy WR crew better and the team better.
We were 10-7. He outplayed the Minny QB making a ton of money and that QB has Jefferson among other god position players. Jones had a good year.
giantstock, I can tell that you're reasonable because you acknowledge what you did there (some don't).
Lol. You do that.
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if he gets $38M. I'll expect that kind of production for that money.
Haha! Mahomes is getting 45 million per (on average), so DJ is expected to perform on his level at 38 per?
If he's performing at Mahomes level, shouldn't he get the 45 per that Mahomes is getting?
Math must be hard for some people...
Let’s not even talk about the fact that mahomes signed that deal what two years ago now?
One more time, 45 million per today is not the same as 45 million per from two years ago. When the cap goes up, stay with me here, salaries go up.
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In comment 16050498 The_Boss said:
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He better produce total TD’s that start with a 3.
To do that they’ll need a couple of receivers whose speed starts with 4.3
When you make the big bucks, you're supposed to make others better.
If you been watching, he already has.
Daboll and Schoen desperately want to build on last year. They COULD do it with someone else. BIG RISK. They declined year 5, it is going to cost them more AAV than we all want.
Is what it is.