weapons argument is so "tired" that Schoen and Daboll were on board to not only bring back Jones, but to sign him to a 4 year deal.
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
How much better do you expect the weapons to be in 2023?
What if the Giants can only roughly replace all of the weapons that are free agents?
hard disagree here. we saw the impact hodgins had in the 2nd half, so finding weapons that make a big impact is possible.
look at olave, wilson, christian watson, pickens, etc last year as rookies.
look at ajb, hollywood, etc and the other vets who changed teams last year.
we've talked through the slayton thing to death but he is a mediocre at best starter, who will get paid (or overpaid) like a mediocre at best starter, and upgrading him shouldn't be challenging. hodgins was an upgrade and he was waived twice/unclaimed by anyone else last year. not saying it's going to be easy to find another hodgins on waivers but they 4 top 100 picks and i'd be gobsmacked if 1 of them isn't a Wr.
The aggregate quality of run and pass weapons of James, Slayton, Hodgins, Bellinger, and Barkley is the baseline.
I'd call that a 7 or solid C group. My guess is the Giants don't upgrade the run game, don't upgrade the TE game, and make one high asset investment in the WR group.
My guess is, all things equal the Giants starting skill group next year is pretty similar to 2023, and the lynch pin is how much a rookie WR can outproduce Slayton in year one.
weapons argument is so "tired" that Schoen and Daboll were on board to not only bring back Jones, but to sign him to a 4 year deal.
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
weapons argument is so "tired" that Schoen and Daboll were on board to not only bring back Jones, but to sign him to a 4 year deal.
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
That argument will pivot to the meddlesome Mara. I predicted this weeks ago. No where in ANY of this will be that Schoen and Daboll felt that Jones was a large part of the success for 2022 and they wanted him to the the tune of 40m AAV because Jones is worth it.
Daniel Jones' Year 1 cap hit should come in around $19M, I'm told, which seemingly provides flexibility in free agency to address a few positions.
4:59 PM · Mar 7, 2023
·
106.7K
Views
There, I said it! I actually have no idea until all the numbers come out, I just wanted to be the first to say it!
:)
Jones had more leverage than the Giants and used it to get a very good deal for himself
His floor was 32.4m for 2022. It was so easy for him to play hardball. We are lucky he did not get more. He could have kept them from signing anyone until the summer.
weapons argument is so "tired" that Schoen and Daboll were on board to not only bring back Jones, but to sign him to a 4 year deal.
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
Do you actually have an opinion to contribute?
Huh? The opinion is that Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones. Stop bulding clocks and start comprehending what you read.
How much better do you expect the weapons to be in 2023?
What if the Giants can only roughly replace all of the weapons that are free agents?
hard disagree here. we saw the impact hodgins had in the 2nd half, so finding weapons that make a big impact is possible.
look at olave, wilson, christian watson, pickens, etc last year as rookies.
look at ajb, hollywood, etc and the other vets who changed teams last year.
we've talked through the slayton thing to death but he is a mediocre at best starter, who will get paid (or overpaid) like a mediocre at best starter, and upgrading him shouldn't be challenging. hodgins was an upgrade and he was waived twice/unclaimed by anyone else last year. not saying it's going to be easy to find another hodgins on waivers but they 4 top 100 picks and i'd be gobsmacked if 1 of them isn't a Wr.
The aggregate quality of run and pass weapons of James, Slayton, Hodgins, Bellinger, and Barkley is the baseline.
I'd call that a 7 or solid C group. My guess is the Giants don't upgrade the run game, don't upgrade the TE game, and make one high asset investment in the WR group.
My guess is, all things equal the Giants starting skill group next year is pretty similar to 2023, and the lynch pin is how much a rookie WR can outproduce Slayton in year one.
The aggregate quality of run and pass weapons of James, Slayton, Hodgins, Bellinger, and Barkley is the baseline.
I'd call that a 7 or solid C group. My guess is the Giants don't upgrade the run game, don't upgrade the TE game, and make one high asset investment in the WR group.
My guess is, all things equal the Giants starting skill group next year is pretty similar to 2023, and the lynch pin is how much a rookie WR can outproduce Slayton in year one.
i dont know how your scale is grading but i think a statistical way to look at it would be to say their weapons were somewhere in the 50 percentile range as they scored very close to the 50th percentile in PPG.
as a passer jones was also probably 50th percentile, so id say he was close to neutral with his receivers, but with his overall value as a qb bumped up by what he contributed as a runner.
i dont think slayton is a loss. a full year of hodgins is an upgrade on slayton. i think he could put up a 1k/8td year which is better than anything slayton has ever done.
it's easier said then done but if they get 1 additional true impact WR that's a force multiplier. i dont know if they can find one but i expect it's high on their to do list (and our most accurate asshat said they were all in on moore at the trade deadline). id personally be open to all options from hopkins, to aiyuk, to dj moore, to moving up in the draft if they love jsn/addison/hyatt. i dont know where the best value deal will be so id be engaged across all the above. i think the only thing id be out on is obj because that plane video of him was pretty bad.
then it's probably time to get off Gettlemans back.
Why?
Gettleman still sucked... Horribly!
Jones doesn't get him off the hook for his piss poor management and FA debacles, and clueless approach to team building.
Daniel Jones' Year 1 cap hit should come in around $19M, I'm told, which seemingly provides flexibility in free agency to address a few positions.
4:59 PM · Mar 7, 2023
·
106.7K
Views
1st year cap hit - ( New Window )
This was another piece of leverage for Jones. He knew they needed cap relief in 2023. Easy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants are now in a Super Bowl window
weapons argument is so "tired" that Schoen and Daboll were on board to not only bring back Jones, but to sign him to a 4 year deal.
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
Do you actually have an opinion to contribute?
Huh? The opinion is that Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones. Stop bulding clocks and start comprehending what you read.
I completely agree Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones. Why wouldn't they? He did everything they asked of him last year: league leader in a bunch of passing efficiency measures, great ground production, protected himself better in the run game, won a playoff game. He had a resounding successful season.
The Giants were 15th in scoring. Very good run game, efficient pass game.
My view is simply it won't be turn key easy to upgrade the passing targets, who played well down the stretch.
Daniel Jones' Year 1 cap hit should come in around $19M, I'm told, which seemingly provides flexibility in free agency to address a few positions.
4:59 PM · Mar 7, 2023
·
106.7K
Views
1st year cap hit - ( New Window )
This was another piece of leverage for Jones. He knew they needed cap relief in 2023. Easy.
There, I said it! I actually have no idea until all the numbers come out, I just wanted to be the first to say it!
:)
Jones had more leverage than the Giants and used it to get a very good deal for himself
His floor was 32.4m for 2022. It was so easy for him to play hardball. We are lucky he did not get more. He could have kept them from signing anyone until the summer.
This was EASY to see coming.
Just to be clear, I have no opinion on this yet, I have to see all the numbers...
now its time to get on to more pressing matters; fix the front 7.
prdave the Oline and particularly Neal advancing will do wonders for the offense.
Anyone not recognizing that they need a top WR is a moron but consider the posters suggesting this.
BPA in the draft but this deal allows them to maybe add a impact guy on defense as well.
OL for sure. We just picked a bad year to need a WR in the free agency pool. Not a bumper crop at all. Lots of WRs and WR3s.
The best opportunity looks to be the draft. Maybe a trade or a quality gets unexpectedly cut to get under the cap. But those seems like longer shot solutions at this moment.
wow call me shocked ajr acting like a child after the Jones contract news breaks. Give it up already dude.
A child for asking if the kids gloves are off Daniel Jones now? Jones now needs to prove if he’s elite, no “but he doesn’t have this” goalpost moving. I think that’s a fair statement.
If it offends you, go play outside.
He's not going to be able show he is elite (which imo he isn't) until he gets better than lousy receivers and he could use a better IOL. I agree though he is not elite.
Oddly, another poster called the Giants now "Super Bowl Contenders" and that poster was never much of a DJ fan. Very odd. There is no way this team is a contender next year.
Great job by Schoen. That's all that matters. The AAV is important to Jones and his agents. As fans, we still have flexibility to improve the roster, sign our guys.
At least it seems like they're only tied to him for a couple of years, so they can cut bait if he continues to be mediocre.
Would you please stop? He was a good QB last year..Not great, not elite and certainly not mediocre..
He is making a complete ass of himself. Let him. This troll is saying the Giants feel he is mediocre after they just signed him to a 4 year deal for 40m AAV that can be worth almost 50m AAV if he hits incentives.
Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
I don't think Sean is saying that the Giants are a Super Bowl contender right now.
He is saying that given the players signed and the ramifications that means for the cap, that the team has about 3 years before things start to come crashing down and the cap monster bites.
If he could handle the pressure of playing a year when 90% of the football world was certain his time as a Giant was done, he can probably handle playing under the scrutiny of critics like you as a multi millionaire.
the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it
but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
it's easier said then done but if they get 1 additional true impact WR that's a force multiplier. i dont know if they can find one but i expect it's high on their to do list (and our most accurate asshat said they were all in on moore at the trade deadline). id personally be open to all options from hopkins, to aiyuk, to dj moore, to moving up in the draft if they love jsn/addison/hyatt. i dont know where the best value deal will be so id be engaged across all the above. i think the only thing id be out on is obj because that plane video of him was pretty bad.
That's exactly my point. Among their clear needs is a WR. But I don't think it's a given they'll be able to far and away upgrade last year's skill players.
We're not talking about a bottom 3rd offense, were talking about a top half offense.
We've been over the metrics on James and Slayton enough, they are quality 3 and 4 WRs.
As of today the Giants have big questions at 3/4 WR positions.
There, I said it! I actually have no idea until all the numbers come out, I just wanted to be the first to say it!
:)
Jones had more leverage than the Giants and used it to get a very good deal for himself
His floor was 32.4m for 2022. It was so easy for him to play hardball. We are lucky he did not get more. He could have kept them from signing anyone until the summer.
This was EASY to see coming.
Just to be clear, I have no opinion on this yet, I have to see all the numbers...
I was going for a little levity.
McL, I know how intelligent you are. There will be nothing in these details that make this look bad for Daniel. I am CONFIDENT I know what happened.
Jones had all the leverage. The Giants moved up a long way from the beginning and blinked even more at the very end.
The tag 32.4m and Jones got 40m AAV.
Why?
RE: Now it's $94M virtually guaranteed per Rapoport
Had a feeling that $82M guaranteed wasn't going to stick.
Have to see how many years of Jones Giants get for $94M.
That's certainly an interesting number and could be a huge difference in this deal. Phrasing sounds like it came from an agent, so very curious to see how that plays out.
RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it
but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
JFC, Thank you, got some respect back from me, not that you care, but my god, at least one of you has some character.
but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
Good points on the contract.
If there is no eject button, they are indeed seriously hitched to Jones to win big prizes. That's a big bet.
Idiots that think they needed this gigantic emergency cute were people who are stupid enough to not be sold on Jones. I think he has to up his game, no more bullshit, but I also believe he will. Without knowing details other then 18 million year 1, probably total contract worth up to 160 mil with incentives, and sounds like 92 million of thr contract is guaranteed. If this is the case, and it takes a lot to decider through all the bullshit, then the Giants did a great job. Giant fans will be happy.
Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
Why not?
Why do you think so?
They played an easy schedule. The tougher schdeule so coming while they still have crummy WR''s, a crummy IOL, an OT in Neal still being questioned (by SY among others), and defensive front thta got pushed around by both Philly and Dallas in which we were forced ot play Williams and Lawrence too much. We have poor ILB's so we need if not two, and we need help with another Corner.
Did you feel we were a Contender this year? I find you an excellent poster - but just as a differing opinion - I’m wondering why you think for example that the Giants at this moment are near Philly and San Fran? Frankly not better than Dallas. Seattle and Detroit pushed us around a built. While oy can dismiss the latter 3 maybe 1 or 2 of them but still Dallas is stronger - what is it that you think makes us jump the top teams in the NFC?
Cap hits of 19M and 10.1M for Jones and Barkley, plus cutting Golladay with a post-June designation leaves the Giants with $32M in cap room. Plenty of room to do as they please.
RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
If this effectively a 3 year commitment, it's effectively 2-3 years less than the big dogs are getting locked into.
it's easier said then done but if they get 1 additional true impact WR that's a force multiplier. i dont know if they can find one but i expect it's high on their to do list (and our most accurate asshat said they were all in on moore at the trade deadline). id personally be open to all options from hopkins, to aiyuk, to dj moore, to moving up in the draft if they love jsn/addison/hyatt. i dont know where the best value deal will be so id be engaged across all the above. i think the only thing id be out on is obj because that plane video of him was pretty bad.
That's exactly my point. Among their clear needs is a WR. But I don't think it's a given they'll be able to far and away upgrade last year's skill players.
We're not talking about a bottom 3rd offense, were talking about a top half offense.
We've been over the metrics on James and Slayton enough, they are quality 3 and 4 WRs.
As of today the Giants have big questions at 3/4 WR positions.
add hopkins and the WR group is in a new stratosphere. him and hodgins as starters with presumably shepard on a min deal, wandale back at some point, 1 or 2 rookies, and 1 or 2 vets on VSBs is a complete facelift on last year's group.
RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it
but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
JFC, Thank you, got some respect back from me, not that you care, but my god, at least one of you has some character.
My guess on the first year cap hit is they could have structured it like Carr's, but with a lot of cap room this year, adding $12 million this year frees that money up in future years. Having an extra $6 million in 2024 and 2025 can make a big difference in building long term quality. I bet Schoen got exactly what he wanted cap wise for this year.
RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it
but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
JFC, Thank you, got some respect back from me, not that you care, but my god, at least one of you has some character.
thanks for the respect back? not sure what i did to lose it but glad it's back in my digital piggyback.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants are now in a Super Bowl window
Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
Why not?
Why do you think so?
They played an easy schedule. The tougher schdeule so coming while they still have crummy WR''s, a crummy IOL, an OT in Neal still being questioned (by SY among others), and defensive front thta got pushed around by both Philly and Dallas in which we were forced ot play Williams and Lawrence too much. We have poor ILB's so we need if not two, and we need help with another Corner.
Did you feel we were a Contender this year? I find you an excellent poster - but just as a differing opinion - I’m wondering why you think for example that the Giants at this moment are near Philly and San Fran? Frankly not better than Dallas. Seattle and Detroit pushed us around a built. While oy can dismiss the latter 3 maybe 1 or 2 of them but still Dallas is stronger - what is it that you think makes us jump the top teams in the NFC?
Thank you for the kind words.
We were a young team. I felt the product at the end of the year was much better than earlier. We grew as a team. Jones grew as a QB. We opened up the offense. Philly has a cap problem. 5 million over. We are in a much better cap spot in 2023 than we were in 2022.
I do believe we FINALLY made the right hires at GM and HC. The returns from 2022 force me to believe in them until they prove otherwise.
Quote:
In comment 16055312 drake88 said:
Quote:
with it but if we provide him with receiving talent he better be doubling his TD numbers.
How about we just win the NFC East and go from there?
You guys and your stats...
LOL, we can't beat the Cowboys or Eagles. Baby steps.
No, based on our roster compared to theirs, we couldn’t match up well..Year 2 of Daboll/Jones/Schoen hopefully fills some of the holes
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
Quote:
The weapons argument is a little tired.
How much better do you expect the weapons to be in 2023?
What if the Giants can only roughly replace all of the weapons that are free agents?
hard disagree here. we saw the impact hodgins had in the 2nd half, so finding weapons that make a big impact is possible.
look at olave, wilson, christian watson, pickens, etc last year as rookies.
look at ajb, hollywood, etc and the other vets who changed teams last year.
we've talked through the slayton thing to death but he is a mediocre at best starter, who will get paid (or overpaid) like a mediocre at best starter, and upgrading him shouldn't be challenging. hodgins was an upgrade and he was waived twice/unclaimed by anyone else last year. not saying it's going to be easy to find another hodgins on waivers but they 4 top 100 picks and i'd be gobsmacked if 1 of them isn't a Wr.
The aggregate quality of run and pass weapons of James, Slayton, Hodgins, Bellinger, and Barkley is the baseline.
I'd call that a 7 or solid C group. My guess is the Giants don't upgrade the run game, don't upgrade the TE game, and make one high asset investment in the WR group.
My guess is, all things equal the Giants starting skill group next year is pretty similar to 2023, and the lynch pin is how much a rookie WR can outproduce Slayton in year one.
Quote:
At least it seems like they're only tied to him for a couple of years, so they can cut bait if he continues to be mediocre.
Would you please stop? ...
Are you seriously asking Greg from LI to stop hating on a Duke alumni?
There, I said it! I actually have no idea until all the numbers come out, I just wanted to be the first to say it!
:)
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
Do you actually have an opinion to contribute?
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
That would mean they were wrong about Jones.
Anything is possible but that.
Laughing at the lot of them today.
The spin is hilarious.
We need to sign or draft (preferably draft) a new center and a guard
@JFowlerESPN
Daniel Jones' Year 1 cap hit should come in around $19M, I'm told, which seemingly provides flexibility in free agency to address a few positions.
4:59 PM · Mar 7, 2023
·
106.7K
Views
1st year cap hit - ( New Window )
prdave the Oline and particularly Neal advancing will do wonders for the offense.
Anyone not recognizing that they need a top WR is a moron but consider the posters suggesting this.
BPA in the draft but this deal allows them to maybe add a impact guy on defense as well.
I completely agree. The big jump from mid tier to top tier for Jones will come when he's not pressured 30%+ of the time.
Hopefully that is a product of Neal rounding into form and an investment in the IOL.
There, I said it! I actually have no idea until all the numbers come out, I just wanted to be the first to say it!
:)
His floor was 32.4m for 2022. It was so easy for him to play hardball. We are lucky he did not get more. He could have kept them from signing anyone until the summer.
This was EASY to see coming.
Quote:
weapons argument is so "tired" that Schoen and Daboll were on board to not only bring back Jones, but to sign him to a 4 year deal.
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
Do you actually have an opinion to contribute?
Huh? The opinion is that Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones. Stop bulding clocks and start comprehending what you read.
Quote:
In comment 16055514 christian said:
Quote:
The weapons argument is a little tired.
How much better do you expect the weapons to be in 2023?
What if the Giants can only roughly replace all of the weapons that are free agents?
hard disagree here. we saw the impact hodgins had in the 2nd half, so finding weapons that make a big impact is possible.
look at olave, wilson, christian watson, pickens, etc last year as rookies.
look at ajb, hollywood, etc and the other vets who changed teams last year.
we've talked through the slayton thing to death but he is a mediocre at best starter, who will get paid (or overpaid) like a mediocre at best starter, and upgrading him shouldn't be challenging. hodgins was an upgrade and he was waived twice/unclaimed by anyone else last year. not saying it's going to be easy to find another hodgins on waivers but they 4 top 100 picks and i'd be gobsmacked if 1 of them isn't a Wr.
The aggregate quality of run and pass weapons of James, Slayton, Hodgins, Bellinger, and Barkley is the baseline.
I'd call that a 7 or solid C group. My guess is the Giants don't upgrade the run game, don't upgrade the TE game, and make one high asset investment in the WR group.
My guess is, all things equal the Giants starting skill group next year is pretty similar to 2023, and the lynch pin is how much a rookie WR can outproduce Slayton in year one.
A bottom 3 unit in the NFL is a C?
The aggregate quality of run and pass weapons of James, Slayton, Hodgins, Bellinger, and Barkley is the baseline.
I'd call that a 7 or solid C group. My guess is the Giants don't upgrade the run game, don't upgrade the TE game, and make one high asset investment in the WR group.
My guess is, all things equal the Giants starting skill group next year is pretty similar to 2023, and the lynch pin is how much a rookie WR can outproduce Slayton in year one.
i dont know how your scale is grading but i think a statistical way to look at it would be to say their weapons were somewhere in the 50 percentile range as they scored very close to the 50th percentile in PPG.
as a passer jones was also probably 50th percentile, so id say he was close to neutral with his receivers, but with his overall value as a qb bumped up by what he contributed as a runner.
i dont think slayton is a loss. a full year of hodgins is an upgrade on slayton. i think he could put up a 1k/8td year which is better than anything slayton has ever done.
it's easier said then done but if they get 1 additional true impact WR that's a force multiplier. i dont know if they can find one but i expect it's high on their to do list (and our most accurate asshat said they were all in on moore at the trade deadline). id personally be open to all options from hopkins, to aiyuk, to dj moore, to moving up in the draft if they love jsn/addison/hyatt. i dont know where the best value deal will be so id be engaged across all the above. i think the only thing id be out on is obj because that plane video of him was pretty bad.
Can be put to bed today.
Lol.
Not seeing a lot of character today from posters who have said a lot things with certainty that look really fucking stupid today.
Not impressed
Why?
Gettleman still sucked... Horribly!
Jones doesn't get him off the hook for his piss poor management and FA debacles, and clueless approach to team building.
Quote:
In comment 16055360 Sean said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
@JFowlerESPN
Daniel Jones' Year 1 cap hit should come in around $19M, I'm told, which seemingly provides flexibility in free agency to address a few positions.
4:59 PM · Mar 7, 2023
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106.7K
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1st year cap hit - ( New Window )
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In comment 16055400 jintz4life said:
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In comment 16055360 Sean said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
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In comment 16055619 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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weapons argument is so "tired" that Schoen and Daboll were on board to not only bring back Jones, but to sign him to a 4 year deal.
Seems that they think that Jones performed really well, even without weapons. If we had the weapons, they probably wouldn't have laid so much success last year on Jones.
Is the argument going to pivot to wondering if Schoen and Daboll know what they are doing??
Not only hasn't Jones silenced his "critics", but now they keep inventing new ways to question him.
Do you actually have an opinion to contribute?
Huh? The opinion is that Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones. Stop bulding clocks and start comprehending what you read.
I completely agree Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones. Why wouldn't they? He did everything they asked of him last year: league leader in a bunch of passing efficiency measures, great ground production, protected himself better in the run game, won a playoff game. He had a resounding successful season.
The Giants were 15th in scoring. Very good run game, efficient pass game.
My view is simply it won't be turn key easy to upgrade the passing targets, who played well down the stretch.
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Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN
Daniel Jones' Year 1 cap hit should come in around $19M, I'm told, which seemingly provides flexibility in free agency to address a few positions.
4:59 PM · Mar 7, 2023
·
106.7K
Views
1st year cap hit - ( New Window )
This was another piece of leverage for Jones. He knew they needed cap relief in 2023. Easy.
Only, they didn’t. Wanted not needed.
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We were bidding against ourselves...
There, I said it! I actually have no idea until all the numbers come out, I just wanted to be the first to say it!
:)
Jones had more leverage than the Giants and used it to get a very good deal for himself
His floor was 32.4m for 2022. It was so easy for him to play hardball. We are lucky he did not get more. He could have kept them from signing anyone until the summer.
This was EASY to see coming.
Just to be clear, I have no opinion on this yet, I have to see all the numbers...
I was going for a little levity.
prdave the Oline and particularly Neal advancing will do wonders for the offense.
Anyone not recognizing that they need a top WR is a moron but consider the posters suggesting this.
BPA in the draft but this deal allows them to maybe add a impact guy on defense as well.
OL for sure. We just picked a bad year to need a WR in the free agency pool. Not a bumper crop at all. Lots of WRs and WR3s.
The best opportunity looks to be the draft. Maybe a trade or a quality gets unexpectedly cut to get under the cap. But those seems like longer shot solutions at this moment.
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wow call me shocked ajr acting like a child after the Jones contract news breaks. Give it up already dude.
A child for asking if the kids gloves are off Daniel Jones now? Jones now needs to prove if he’s elite, no “but he doesn’t have this” goalpost moving. I think that’s a fair statement.
If it offends you, go play outside.
He's not going to be able show he is elite (which imo he isn't) until he gets better than lousy receivers and he could use a better IOL. I agree though he is not elite.
Oddly, another poster called the Giants now "Super Bowl Contenders" and that poster was never much of a DJ fan. Very odd. There is no way this team is a contender next year.
Have to see how many years of Jones Giants get for $94M.
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At least it seems like they're only tied to him for a couple of years, so they can cut bait if he continues to be mediocre.
Would you please stop? He was a good QB last year..Not great, not elite and certainly not mediocre..
Don't ask him to stop.
LAUGH
AT
HIM!
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In comment 16055400 jintz4life said:
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In comment 16055360 Sean said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
I don't think Sean is saying that the Giants are a Super Bowl contender right now.
He is saying that given the players signed and the ramifications that means for the cap, that the team has about 3 years before things start to come crashing down and the cap monster bites.
If he could handle the pressure of playing a year when 90% of the football world was certain his time as a Giant was done, he can probably handle playing under the scrutiny of critics like you as a multi millionaire.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
That's exactly my point. Among their clear needs is a WR. But I don't think it's a given they'll be able to far and away upgrade last year's skill players.
We're not talking about a bottom 3rd offense, were talking about a top half offense.
We've been over the metrics on James and Slayton enough, they are quality 3 and 4 WRs.
As of today the Giants have big questions at 3/4 WR positions.
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In comment 16055632 .McL. said:
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We were bidding against ourselves...
There, I said it! I actually have no idea until all the numbers come out, I just wanted to be the first to say it!
:)
Jones had more leverage than the Giants and used it to get a very good deal for himself
His floor was 32.4m for 2022. It was so easy for him to play hardball. We are lucky he did not get more. He could have kept them from signing anyone until the summer.
This was EASY to see coming.
Just to be clear, I have no opinion on this yet, I have to see all the numbers...
I was going for a little levity.
Jones had all the leverage. The Giants moved up a long way from the beginning and blinked even more at the very end.
The tag 32.4m and Jones got 40m AAV.
Why?
Have to see how many years of Jones Giants get for $94M.
That's certainly an interesting number and could be a huge difference in this deal. Phrasing sounds like it came from an agent, so very curious to see how that plays out.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
Good points on the contract.
If there is no eject button, they are indeed seriously hitched to Jones to win big prizes. That's a big bet.
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In comment 16055407 Sean said:
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In comment 16055400 jintz4life said:
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In comment 16055360 Sean said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
Why not?
Why do you think so?
They played an easy schedule. The tougher schdeule so coming while they still have crummy WR''s, a crummy IOL, an OT in Neal still being questioned (by SY among others), and defensive front thta got pushed around by both Philly and Dallas in which we were forced ot play Williams and Lawrence too much. We have poor ILB's so we need if not two, and we need help with another Corner.
Did you feel we were a Contender this year? I find you an excellent poster - but just as a differing opinion - I’m wondering why you think for example that the Giants at this moment are near Philly and San Fran? Frankly not better than Dallas. Seattle and Detroit pushed us around a built. While oy can dismiss the latter 3 maybe 1 or 2 of them but still Dallas is stronger - what is it that you think makes us jump the top teams in the NFC?
If this effectively a 3 year commitment, it's effectively 2-3 years less than the big dogs are getting locked into.
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it's easier said then done but if they get 1 additional true impact WR that's a force multiplier. i dont know if they can find one but i expect it's high on their to do list (and our most accurate asshat said they were all in on moore at the trade deadline). id personally be open to all options from hopkins, to aiyuk, to dj moore, to moving up in the draft if they love jsn/addison/hyatt. i dont know where the best value deal will be so id be engaged across all the above. i think the only thing id be out on is obj because that plane video of him was pretty bad.
That's exactly my point. Among their clear needs is a WR. But I don't think it's a given they'll be able to far and away upgrade last year's skill players.
We're not talking about a bottom 3rd offense, were talking about a top half offense.
We've been over the metrics on James and Slayton enough, they are quality 3 and 4 WRs.
As of today the Giants have big questions at 3/4 WR positions.
add hopkins and the WR group is in a new stratosphere. him and hodgins as starters with presumably shepard on a min deal, wandale back at some point, 1 or 2 rookies, and 1 or 2 vets on VSBs is a complete facelift on last year's group.
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but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
JFC, Thank you, got some respect back from me, not that you care, but my god, at least one of you has some character.
My guess on the first year cap hit is they could have structured it like Carr's, but with a lot of cap room this year, adding $12 million this year frees that money up in future years. Having an extra $6 million in 2024 and 2025 can make a big difference in building long term quality. I bet Schoen got exactly what he wanted cap wise for this year.
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but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.
i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.
JFC, Thank you, got some respect back from me, not that you care, but my god, at least one of you has some character.
thanks for the respect back? not sure what i did to lose it but glad it's back in my digital piggyback.
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In comment 16055676 giantstock said:
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In comment 16055407 Sean said:
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In comment 16055400 jintz4life said:
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In comment 16055360 Sean said:
Quote:
Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.
Now it’s time to build the roster.
how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window
I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?
They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?
Why not?
Why do you think so?
They played an easy schedule. The tougher schdeule so coming while they still have crummy WR''s, a crummy IOL, an OT in Neal still being questioned (by SY among others), and defensive front thta got pushed around by both Philly and Dallas in which we were forced ot play Williams and Lawrence too much. We have poor ILB's so we need if not two, and we need help with another Corner.
Did you feel we were a Contender this year? I find you an excellent poster - but just as a differing opinion - I’m wondering why you think for example that the Giants at this moment are near Philly and San Fran? Frankly not better than Dallas. Seattle and Detroit pushed us around a built. While oy can dismiss the latter 3 maybe 1 or 2 of them but still Dallas is stronger - what is it that you think makes us jump the top teams in the NFC?
We were a young team. I felt the product at the end of the year was much better than earlier. We grew as a team. Jones grew as a QB. We opened up the offense. Philly has a cap problem. 5 million over. We are in a much better cap spot in 2023 than we were in 2022.
I do believe we FINALLY made the right hires at GM and HC. The returns from 2022 force me to believe in them until they prove otherwise.
How much better do you expect the weapons to be in 2023?
What if the Giants can only roughly replace all of the weapons that are free agents?
If the Giants drafting is competent - they should improve a lot. The current group of WR's sucked.
We had a WR cut that was showing off to be our best WR and you are dismissing the idea that the WR can't improve by a lot????