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DANIEL JONES: 4-year deal worth $160M, sources say

Anando : 3/7/2023 3:57 pm
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
55s
It's going to be a 4-year deal worth $160M, sources say, with $35M more in upside. They are finalizing.
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RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/7/2023 5:54 pm : link
In comment 16055727 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.

i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.


I dont know how much you can really say it's an endorsement. They've been clear he's their guy, but it's still 'just' a 4 year deal, and if there's big money in the final two years, it won't be guaranteed money, which means its fluid.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 3/7/2023 5:56 pm : link
In comment 16055764 Eric on Li said:
Quote:

As of today the Giants have big questions at 3/4 WR positions.



add hopkins and the WR group is in a new stratosphere. him and hodgins as starters with presumably shepard on a min deal, wandale back at some point, 1 or 2 rookies, and 1 or 2 vets on VSBs is a complete facelift on last year's group.


Yes, again we are agreeing.

If the Giants acquire 5 WRs not on the roster today including a top line guy via a trade, and Robinson recovers well, they could be next year.

Now odds of all that falling into place next year and outperforming the group the Giants had in the homestretch?

If I were investing in the picks and cash, I'd be targeting and IOL.
when we see the cap numbers for  
Dave on the UWS : 3/7/2023 5:57 pm : link
the other years, we will see the long term plan. So far, so good though.
It is a clear overpay relative to what others  
NoGainDayne : 3/7/2023 5:57 pm : link
got and his on field production. I said this two minutes prior to the deal and 8 minutes prior to the deadline. And the point isn't that it is some great prediction but that if it was that obvious we made the negotiation pretty easy for DJs side. And that was always the problem.

In comment 16055175 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 16055116 Sean said: I don’t think he wants to be here

Quote:
.

I think he does and he just knows the Mara's and their feelings about him will force a buckle. I'd say given the news and the way it has played out i'd be very surprised if he isn't signed to the long term deal at $40M+ AAV.

All of these "hey they are meeting again" situations show it is the Giants who are desperate to get something done. Otherwise they should just be like, hey, we are tagging you, you come back to us when you have a more reasonable number.

The Giants are the one with the trump card but it is playing out as Jones exerting the leverage here time and time again. Because he knows how ownership feels about him


I expect this deal doesn't age well. And this was always my problem with DJ, not anything about him just how fond certain people in charge of the team were of him and how harmful that could be to effective negotiations regardless of his production.

I don't really need to argue or care about how much pure agreement JS had on this because the fact is the CEO loves someone so profusely and it changes your perspective on them. And Mara loved this guy more than his output from day one. You build a team well getting value for production.

The proof is in the pudding, we will see how this contract ages. I don't suspect well but I'd love to be wrong. Then we can talk about if JS is just another bad hire or if perhaps there is a different problem.
Thread from the quote - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Jones is only as good  
Carson53 : 3/7/2023 5:57 pm : link
In comment 16055647 jnoble said:
Quote:
In comment 16055640 prdave73 said:


Quote:


as his Oline. Giants need to shore up on the Oline. If it were me, that would be my main priority this entire offseason.


We need to sign or draft (preferably draft) a new center and a guard
.

^This
RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Thegratefulhead : 3/7/2023 5:58 pm : link
In comment 16055781 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16055727 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.

i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.



I dont know how much you can really say it's an endorsement. They've been clear he's their guy, but it's still 'just' a 4 year deal, and if there's big money in the final two years, it won't be guaranteed money, which means its fluid.
Dude....The tag was 32.4 and they paid him 40m AAV. That is a huge endorsement. Holy cow. I mean, he only threw 15 TDs last year, Schoen must be fucking stupid right?

lol.
RE: RE: The excuses era is over now  
DefenseWins : 3/7/2023 5:58 pm : link
In comment 16055391 BlueVinnie said:
Quote:
In comment 16055304 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Right?


LOL...yeah right.
There will be a fresh batch of them if Jones fails to produce.


once again, how did signing him to a contract change his situation in the offense? Did I miss where we solidified the OL and got him some weapons to throw to? Seriously.. I was not here much for the past two days. Did I miss that?
Does anyone remember  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/7/2023 5:59 pm : link
The 40-50 yard throw jones had to the corner of the end zone that was dropped by Slayton against Minnesota? He’s going to be worth every penny of this contract under Dabs and co
WE have a GM and a coach...  
DefenseWins : 3/7/2023 6:00 pm : link
who turned this team around in one off season. The best Giants team (winning a playoff game) since the last Superbowl. Yet, we still have people here who know more than our GM and coach... apparently.

RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm fine  
giantstock : 3/7/2023 6:01 pm : link
In comment 16055618 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16055608 islander1 said:


Quote:


In comment 16055465 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16055312 drake88 said:


Quote:


with it but if we provide him with receiving talent he better be doubling his TD numbers.



How about we just win the NFC East and go from there?

You guys and your stats...



LOL, we can't beat the Cowboys or Eagles. Baby steps.



No, based on our roster compared to theirs, we couldn’t match up well..Year 2 of Daboll/Jones/Schoen hopefully fills some of the holes


But won't the other teams work to fill their holes too?
RE: It is a clear overpay relative to what others  
Thegratefulhead : 3/7/2023 6:02 pm : link
In comment 16055789 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
got and his on field production. I said this two minutes prior to the deal and 8 minutes prior to the deadline. And the point isn't that it is some great prediction but that if it was that obvious we made the negotiation pretty easy for DJs side. And that was always the problem.

In comment 16055175 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


In comment 16055116 Sean said: I don’t think he wants to be here

Quote:
.

I think he does and he just knows the Mara's and their feelings about him will force a buckle. I'd say given the news and the way it has played out i'd be very surprised if he isn't signed to the long term deal at $40M+ AAV.

All of these "hey they are meeting again" situations show it is the Giants who are desperate to get something done. Otherwise they should just be like, hey, we are tagging you, you come back to us when you have a more reasonable number.

The Giants are the one with the trump card but it is playing out as Jones exerting the leverage here time and time again. Because he knows how ownership feels about him



I expect this deal doesn't age well. And this was always my problem with DJ, not anything about him just how fond certain people in charge of the team were of him and how harmful that could be to effective negotiations regardless of his production.

I don't really need to argue or care about how much pure agreement JS had on this because the fact is the CEO loves someone so profusely and it changes your perspective on them. And Mara loved this guy more than his output from day one. You build a team well getting value for production.

The proof is in the pudding, we will see how this contract ages. I don't suspect well but I'd love to be wrong. Then we can talk about if JS is just another bad hire or if perhaps there is a different problem. Thread from the quote - ( New Window )
More than a month predicted Jones would sign for more than any of you wanted and that you would blame Mara when it happens.


That was as easy to predict as the eventual AAV.

Jones had all the leverage because the tag was 32.4m and he was not easy to replace in the draft or free agency.

IE

You were wrong.

Say it Fonzie!
RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Eric on Li : 3/7/2023 6:03 pm : link
In comment 16055781 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16055727 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.

i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.



I dont know how much you can really say it's an endorsement. They've been clear he's their guy, but it's still 'just' a 4 year deal, and if there's big money in the final two years, it won't be guaranteed money, which means its fluid.


if the year 1 hit is 19m then years 2-4 are going to average 47m. that's simple math.

the bigger the signing bonus, the more painful and harder it is to trade or cut a player even in year 3.

the bigger signing bonus is the only way to get the year 1 down to 19m while still paying out 82m in the first 2 years.

nobody has talked about the impact of non-guaranteed years more than i have but from what we know of the structure so far there is likely to be a much bigger camp number in year 2 than i would have predicted and also a lot less flexibility after year 2 to get out. and that's just based on structure not total $.
RE: RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Thegratefulhead : 3/7/2023 6:05 pm : link
In comment 16055814 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16055781 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 16055727 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


but on the positive side something like a hopkins trade becomes a lot more realistic.

i have a feeling when we see more details the biggest story of this contract will be that schoen and daboll didnt give themselves near the emergency chute i would have expected. a lot is still unknown obviously but i think this contract is starting to shape up as a big endorsement of jones as their qb.



I dont know how much you can really say it's an endorsement. They've been clear he's their guy, but it's still 'just' a 4 year deal, and if there's big money in the final two years, it won't be guaranteed money, which means its fluid.



if the year 1 hit is 19m then years 2-4 are going to average 47m. that's simple math.

the bigger the signing bonus, the more painful and harder it is to trade or cut a player even in year 3.

the bigger signing bonus is the only way to get the year 1 down to 19m while still paying out 82m in the first 2 years.

nobody has talked about the impact of non-guaranteed years more than i have but from what we know of the structure so far there is likely to be a much bigger camp number in year 2 than i would have predicted and also a lot less flexibility after year 2 to get out. and that's just based on structure not total $.
More respect. Facts.
RE: RE: RE: Jeremy Fowler tweet  
Thegratefulhead : 3/7/2023 6:08 pm : link
In comment 16055690 No1MDGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 16055685 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 16055649 wahl35 said:


Quote:


Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN

Daniel Jones' Year 1 cap hit should come in around $19M, I'm told, which seemingly provides flexibility in free agency to address a few positions.
4:59 PM · Mar 7, 2023
·
106.7K
Views
1st year cap hit - ( New Window )

This was another piece of leverage for Jones. He knew they needed cap relief in 2023. Easy.



Only, they didn’t. Wanted not needed.
I concede want VS need. Doesn't change my point.
Honeymoon over. Welcome to New York Mr. Schoen...  
The Mike : 3/7/2023 6:10 pm : link
Good job tagging Barkley. Tender/trade is probably best outcome for the team. Hopefully before this year's draft to maximize draft capital which will now be absolutely vital to ensure this team does not regress.

But allocating on average nearly twenty percent of the cap over the next four years to a middling quarterback is head scratching at best. At worst, it will be one of the worst contracts in NFL history. The dead cap hit in year three will be catastrophic if DJ fails to live up to the elite performance level that the contract demands. Congrats to DJ. This was a master class in how to fleece an NFL organization.

I had thought we had our fill of bad contracts when it was announced that Golladay was going to be cut. But that was a Gettleman disaster. While I do believe Mara again is the primary driver here, that cannot be an excuse. This is Schoen's responsibility now. As DJ goes, so too shall Schoen.

Here's hoping that Daboll is up to the challenge of working his magic again...
RE: RE: if you are a happy Giants fan today  
Thegratefulhead : 3/7/2023 6:10 pm : link
In comment 16055674 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 16055521 Shirk130 said:


Quote:


then it's probably time to get off Gettlemans back.


Why?
Gettleman still sucked... Horribly!
Jones doesn't get him off the hook for his piss poor management and FA debacles, and clueless approach to team building.
DG sucked. Nothing about a draft pick working out can change that. His legacy is his record. Abysmal.
RE: RE: RE: …  
giantstock : 3/7/2023 6:11 pm : link
In comment 16055623 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16055566 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16055514 christian said:


Quote:


The weapons argument is a little tired.

How much better do you expect the weapons to be in 2023?

What if the Giants can only roughly replace all of the weapons that are free agents?



hard disagree here. we saw the impact hodgins had in the 2nd half, so finding weapons that make a big impact is possible.

look at olave, wilson, christian watson, pickens, etc last year as rookies.

look at ajb, hollywood, etc and the other vets who changed teams last year.

we've talked through the slayton thing to death but he is a mediocre at best starter, who will get paid (or overpaid) like a mediocre at best starter, and upgrading him shouldn't be challenging. hodgins was an upgrade and he was waived twice/unclaimed by anyone else last year. not saying it's going to be easy to find another hodgins on waivers but they 4 top 100 picks and i'd be gobsmacked if 1 of them isn't a Wr.



The aggregate quality of run and pass weapons of James, Slayton, Hodgins, Bellinger, and Barkley is the baseline.

I'd call that a 7 or solid C group.


This is utter nonsense. You've lumped in the RB with the WR';s which is a complete joke.

You've completely dismissed positional value.

When the Giants beat the Bears and Jones threw for so few yards, you were not impressed, right? Because he didn't throw for enough yardage? You separated his running vs his throwing, didn't you? But now all of a sudden you want to lump in both the WR and RB?

C'mon - evaluate the WR's and stop with the other nonsense.
RE: RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Milton : 3/7/2023 6:12 pm : link
In comment 16055814 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
from what we know of the structure so far there is likely to be a much bigger camp number in year 2 than i would have predicted and also a lot less flexibility after year 2 to get out. and that's just based on structure not total $.
The year two salary, which is surely guaranteed, will be converted into a signing bonus as part of a simple restructure or another extension. This of course depends on Jones performing as Schoen and Daboll expect.
RE: Honest question  
NYG07 : 3/7/2023 6:12 pm : link
In comment 16055554 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
To the fans upset about this, what exactly did you want the Giants to do? Let him walk for nothing? Draft a QB?

Genuinely curious...


Tag him.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Eric on Li : 3/7/2023 6:13 pm : link
In comment 16055786 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16055764 Eric on Li said:


Quote:



As of today the Giants have big questions at 3/4 WR positions.



add hopkins and the WR group is in a new stratosphere. him and hodgins as starters with presumably shepard on a min deal, wandale back at some point, 1 or 2 rookies, and 1 or 2 vets on VSBs is a complete facelift on last year's group.



Yes, again we are agreeing.

If the Giants acquire 5 WRs not on the roster today including a top line guy via a trade, and Robinson recovers well, they could be next year.

Now odds of all that falling into place next year and outperforming the group the Giants had in the homestretch?

If I were investing in the picks and cash, I'd be targeting and IOL.


there arent that many good IOL in FA. pocic is maybe the only guy that's an upgrade on what they had last year and that's debateable. bradberry too and he doesnt fit their scheme.

last year over the year they acquired 4 of their 5 leading receivers - james, hodgins, wandale, and bellinger. 2 minimum salaries, a 2nd round pick who got hurt multiple times and a 4th round pick who also missed some games and the 4 of them combined for like 150 receptions, 1500 yards, and 12 touchdowns.

last year they didnt invest more in the receiver position in part bc they had toney and golladay as projected starters under contract but their productivity ended up far below even the lowest predictions. between the 2 of them i think they caught like 4 passes from jones for less than 20 yards combined. toney literally had 0 receiving yards as a nyg last year.

id wager comfortably that they invest more in the WR position than they did last year and as such it's very possible that they upgrade significantly, just as they did last year.
This goes out to Anando..  
Milton : 3/7/2023 6:15 pm : link
for being the first to post that there was a deal!
Can you hear the drums, Anando?.... - ( New Window )
These 94 virtually guaranteed numbers  
JoeyBigBlue : 3/7/2023 6:15 pm : link
Make no sense. I guess we have to wait to see exactly how this contract was structured to give an opinion on it.
RE: RE: Honest question  
No1MDGiantsFan : 3/7/2023 6:16 pm : link
In comment 16055846 NYG07 said:
Quote:
In comment 16055554 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


To the fans upset about this, what exactly did you want the Giants to do? Let him walk for nothing? Draft a QB?

Genuinely curious...



Tag him.


So glad we didn’t!!! That would have been WORST case scenario.
TGH one month?  
NoGainDayne : 3/7/2023 6:17 pm : link
I've been saying we will overpay Jones because of Mara for years.

I've also given him credit for his improvement and his good games.

The following made this a pretty unique situation, not the normal negotiation people suggest:

1) 7 QBs have had the franchise tag used on them in the last 30 years. If you want to get into quality other than Cassell Jones has easily the worst on field performance. It shouldn't have gotten this close, he should have been willing to move more but he knew he had us by the balls.

2) Owners rarely blame teammates for the poor performance of their QB

3) Owners rarely publicly commit to a player being their "QB of the future" right before a contract negotiation

4) EXTREMELY RARE for a player to fire his agent right as negotiations are starting

If you can't see a tie to that and the very real situation here where we overpaid a player relative to comps I don't know what to tell you. It is not some imagined thing, there was smoke and now fire.

Most want to pretend like this isn't the same guy that couldn't even handle giving away free soda because we've had one good year. Insufficient for me. I don't mind taking in current trends and the complete body of data to make my assessments.

I expect these comments to age similarly well to my issues with hiring DG, to my comments on their analytics department being behind and yes even my concern that we would overpay this guy regardless of his production.

I don't have any ax to grind here, but my faith is earned. Let's see how it goes, I win either way in my estimation. Unlike some here I'm happy to admit when I am wrong. And I have admitted and will admit that he did more than I thought this season. But I have very consistently been much more concerned about how much we would pay him for his output than the actual output.
RE: RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Brown_Hornet : 3/7/2023 6:17 pm : link
In comment 16055814 Eric on Li said:
Quote:

nobody has talked about the impact of non-guaranteed years more than i have but from what we know of the structure so far there is likely to be a much bigger camp number in year 2 than i would have predicted and also a lot less flexibility after year 2 to get out. and that's just based on structure not total $.

Clearly the GM and coach value DJ far more than the resident experts do.
RE: RE: RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Eric on Li : 3/7/2023 6:17 pm : link
In comment 16055845 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 16055814 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


from what we know of the structure so far there is likely to be a much bigger camp number in year 2 than i would have predicted and also a lot less flexibility after year 2 to get out. and that's just based on structure not total $.

The year two salary, which is surely guaranteed, will be converted into a signing bonus as part of a simple restructure or another extension. This of course depends on Jones performing as Schoen and Daboll expect.


kicking the can down the road in year 2 of a 4 year extension is the type of thing stupid teams in bad cap situations do. i do not think that's what will happen here btw, im just saying that's a stupid practice typically done by the teams that are perpetually over the cap and scrambling to get under by restructures year after year after year.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants are now in a Super Bowl window  
giantstock : 3/7/2023 6:17 pm : link
In comment 16055723 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 16055676 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 16055407 Sean said:


Quote:


In comment 16055400 jintz4life said:


Quote:


In comment 16055360 Sean said:


Quote:


Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.

Now it’s time to build the roster.



how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window


I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?



They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?


I don't think Sean is saying that the Giants are a Super Bowl contender right now.

He is saying that given the players signed and the ramifications that means for the cap, that the team has about 3 years before things start to come crashing down and the cap monster bites.


I hope you're right. But another excellent poster questioned me right after and asked why I thought we weren't. It seemd he though the same too tha twe are one now.

But I agree with you and anyone else that recognizes next year we are not. But if it will take 3 years to be a SB Contender, why sign Barkley or mention the signing in a positive light?
RE: RE: RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Eric on Li : 3/7/2023 6:18 pm : link
In comment 16055863 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 16055814 Eric on Li said:


Quote:



nobody has talked about the impact of non-guaranteed years more than i have but from what we know of the structure so far there is likely to be a much bigger camp number in year 2 than i would have predicted and also a lot less flexibility after year 2 to get out. and that's just based on structure not total $.


Clearly the GM and coach value DJ far more than the resident experts do.


i think that's going to be a takeaway of this deal, though we need to see the full details to confirm.

this is derek carr $ but not the derek carr structure at all.
RE: Honeymoon over. Welcome to New York Mr. Schoen...  
NoGainDayne : 3/7/2023 6:25 pm : link
In comment 16055838 The Mike said:
Quote:
Good job tagging Barkley. Tender/trade is probably best outcome for the team. Hopefully before this year's draft to maximize draft capital which will now be absolutely vital to ensure this team does not regress.

But allocating on average nearly twenty percent of the cap over the next four years to a middling quarterback is head scratching at best. At worst, it will be one of the worst contracts in NFL history. The dead cap hit in year three will be catastrophic if DJ fails to live up to the elite performance level that the contract demands. Congrats to DJ. This was a master class in how to fleece an NFL organization.

I had thought we had our fill of bad contracts when it was announced that Golladay was going to be cut. But that was a Gettleman disaster. While I do believe Mara again is the primary driver here, that cannot be an excuse. This is Schoen's responsibility now. As DJ goes, so too shall Schoen.

Here's hoping that Daboll is up to the challenge of working his magic again...


I'm shocked that more aren't here. Amazing what one good season will do. Agree BD is our shot at making this work and I don't think the task is impossible because of that.

The other thing here is injury. There is some risk of him not taking a step forward, some risk of him taking a step back because the talent around him actually decreases as we have to pay elite money to Dex and AT and also the fact that he has had some injury issues that didn't hold him back in his pay day year but did in the others.

Ultimately this was a risky situation either way for JS IMO. The media circus if Jones was tagged would have been insane, especially if Barkley was lost. Those acting like the only way JS would have agreed to this is because he was 100% down for DJ at these prices are really over-simplifying the situation.
RE: TGH one month?  
Thegratefulhead : 3/7/2023 6:26 pm : link
In comment 16055862 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
I've been saying we will overpay Jones because of Mara for years.

I've also given him credit for his improvement and his good games.

The following made this a pretty unique situation, not the normal negotiation people suggest:

1) 7 QBs have had the franchise tag used on them in the last 30 years. If you want to get into quality other than Cassell Jones has easily the worst on field performance. It shouldn't have gotten this close, he should have been willing to move more but he knew he had us by the balls.

2) Owners rarely blame teammates for the poor performance of their QB

3) Owners rarely publicly commit to a player being their "QB of the future" right before a contract negotiation

4) EXTREMELY RARE for a player to fire his agent right as negotiations are starting

If you can't see a tie to that and the very real situation here where we overpaid a player relative to comps I don't know what to tell you. It is not some imagined thing, there was smoke and now fire.

Most want to pretend like this isn't the same guy that couldn't even handle giving away free soda because we've had one good year. Insufficient for me. I don't mind taking in current trends and the complete body of data to make my assessments.

I expect these comments to age similarly well to my issues with hiring DG, to my comments on their analytics department being behind and yes even my concern that we would overpay this guy regardless of his production.

I don't have any ax to grind here, but my faith is earned. Let's see how it goes, I win either way in my estimation. Unlike some here I'm happy to admit when I am wrong. And I have admitted and will admit that he did more than I thought this season. But I have very consistently been much more concerned about how much we would pay him for his output than the actual output.
Actually, you have big ax to grind here. You are extremely protective of your opinion.

You win?

Just listen to you.

ZERO self awareness.

Can you find room in that narrow but large mind of yours that Schoen and Daboll might have been the ones pounding the table for more cash to sign Jones?

They exceeded expectations in year 1 and have Jones to blame for it.

Of course they did not want to start over at QB.

Had to be Mara.

So fucking arrogant.
...  
christian : 3/7/2023 6:32 pm : link
In comment 16055849 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
id wager comfortably that they invest more in the WR position than they did last year and as such it's very possible that they upgrade significantly, just as they did last year.


Of course they will invest. YoY they'll have lost Golladay, Toney, Slayton, James, and Shepard. That's not debatable, they literally have one healthy WR worth anything.

Odds of them significantly upgrading the output the starters had down the stretch? Very possible? Eh, I'd say possible.

And if they're willing to trade assets and invest money for a Hopkins WR, I'd rather they seek out a trade for an IOL.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Milton : 3/7/2023 6:33 pm : link
In comment 16055865 Eric on Li said:
Quote:

kicking the can down the road in year 2 of a 4 year extension is the type of thing stupid teams in bad cap situations do.
Kicking the can down the road is what every team does every fucking year, so I guess there are 32 teams in the NFL who wish they had your smarts.
The Giants defense was slow and exposed by Dallas & Philly  
Sean : 3/7/2023 6:33 pm : link
The Giants are always investing in WR it feels like. Get faster on defense.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants are now in a Super Bowl window  
giantstock : 3/7/2023 6:33 pm : link
In comment 16055775 Thegratefulhead said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.

Now it’s time to build the roster.



how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window


I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?



They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?

Why not?



Why do you think so?

They played an easy schedule. The tougher schdeule so coming while they still have crummy WR''s, a crummy IOL, an OT in Neal still being questioned (by SY among others), and defensive front thta got pushed around by both Philly and Dallas in which we were forced ot play Williams and Lawrence too much. We have poor ILB's so we need if not two, and we need help with another Corner.

Did you feel we were a Contender this year? I find you an excellent poster - but just as a differing opinion - I’m wondering why you think for example that the Giants at this moment are near Philly and San Fran? Frankly not better than Dallas. Seattle and Detroit pushed us around a built. While oy can dismiss the latter 3 maybe 1 or 2 of them but still Dallas is stronger - what is it that you think makes us jump the top teams in the NFC?

Thank you for the kind words.

We were a young team. I felt the product at the end of the year was much better than earlier. We grew as a team. Jones grew as a QB. We opened up the offense. Philly has a cap problem. 5 million over. We are in a much better cap spot in 2023 than we were in 2022.

I do believe we FINALLY made the right hires at GM and HC. The returns from 2022 force me to believe in them until they prove otherwise.


Younger means "better," in all cases? WH can't "better" players trump "younger" players?

You really think the way Philly manages things and their draft pick availability this year the the cap will adversely impact them?

The Giants have no shot to match Philly this year unless injuries destroy them. I might seem negative btu actually this year I expect a downturn so I will not be complaining about w/l record. I expect a good jump in 2024 if they do things right.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: the 19m year 1 cap # is surprising to me and i dont love it  
Eric on Li : 3/7/2023 6:37 pm : link
In comment 16055913 Milton said:
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In comment 16055865 Eric on Li said:


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kicking the can down the road in year 2 of a 4 year extension is the type of thing stupid teams in bad cap situations do.


Kicking the can down the road is what every team does every fucking year, so I guess there are 32 teams in the NFL who wish they had your smarts.


and to quote joe schoen he views it as a "last resort". you don't need any kind of special smarts to assume that means it's not something he's doing in year 2 of an extension he just signed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants are now in a Super Bowl window  
.McL. : 3/7/2023 6:40 pm : link
In comment 16055866 giantstock said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.

Now it’s time to build the roster.



how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window


I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?



They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?


I don't think Sean is saying that the Giants are a Super Bowl contender right now.

He is saying that given the players signed and the ramifications that means for the cap, that the team has about 3 years before things start to come crashing down and the cap monster bites.



I hope you're right. But another excellent poster questioned me right after and asked why I thought we weren't. It seemd he though the same too tha twe are one now.

But I agree with you and anyone else that recognizes next year we are not. But if it will take 3 years to be a SB Contender, why sign Barkley or mention the signing in a positive light?

I would have let Barkley walk.

My take on Sean is that he is not happy. His position on this is a challenge. Something like this...

Ok, you spent all this money, if you can't go out and put an SB contender on the field, this was a complete failure. Prove that wrong!
Dude wake up yourself you are making it something it isn't  
NoGainDayne : 3/7/2023 6:41 pm : link
this isn't about JS and BD. Unlike you I actually refuse to speculate on them.

What I do know with a high level of certainty is that when the head of an organization does extremely unorthodox things like publicly blame someone's teammates for their problems and gives them a pass, agents are going to use that as leverage in negotiations.

We clearly overpaid here. It isn't a leap to see the above and other things like saying he's the QB of the future prior to this negotiation hurting your negotiating position.

I don't have random confidence in things. I gain conviction when I see strong logical ties between pieces of information.

I'm not saying JS and DB hate Jones and Mara is forcing their hand. I'm saying that their owner who can't even game theory giving away soda properly often doesn't think through the things he says and that has very real costs for the team. Like overpaying on this contract. He kicks garbage cans like a little kid for gods sake.

There have been and will continue to be real costs for his refusal to properly think through the consequences of his actions. Again I would prefer to be wrong here. I don't know what you are so pissed off about, these are very reasonable perspectives given what has played out in the last 10+ years.





RE: RE: Giants are now in a Super Bowl window  
giantstock : 3/7/2023 6:50 pm : link
In comment 16055932 .McL. said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.

Now it’s time to build the roster.



how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window


I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?



They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?


I don't think Sean is saying that the Giants are a Super Bowl contender right now.

He is saying that given the players signed and the ramifications that means for the cap, that the team has about 3 years before things start to come crashing down and the cap monster bites.



I hope you're right. But another excellent poster questioned me right after and asked why I thought we weren't. It seemd he though the same too tha twe are one now.

But I agree with you and anyone else that recognizes next year we are not. But if it will take 3 years to be a SB Contender, why sign Barkley or mention the signing in a positive light?


I would have let Barkley walk.

My take on Sean is that he is not happy. His position on this is a challenge. Something like this...

Ok, you spent all this money, if you can't go out and put an SB contender on the field, this was a complete failure. Prove that wrong!


I 100% agree with everything you are saying here. I hope Sean feels the same way.

I have to see about the current contract for Jones. I was against signing him for near $40m. IF this contract is like that, - and they don't win enough in 2024, I'm gonna turn big time on these threads like I did with DG. - Though DG I thought he was a moron from the start.
Ryan Tannehill contract  
uther99 : 3/7/2023 6:59 pm : link
part Duh . Nice job Schoen
RE: RE: RE: Giants are now in a Super Bowl window  
SirLoinOfBeef : 3/7/2023 7:04 pm : link
In comment 16055954 giantstock said:
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Led by Jones & Barkley. Probably a 3 year window since I’d imagine Barkley is signed too.

Now it’s time to build the roster.



how can anyone have watched the eagles games and think we're in a super bowl window


I don’t get this logic. The Giants just made a massive commitment to Jones and are bringing back Barkley. And this is the reaction?



They aren't in A Super Bowl window this upcoming year? You don't get that?


I don't think Sean is saying that the Giants are a Super Bowl contender right now.

He is saying that given the players signed and the ramifications that means for the cap, that the team has about 3 years before things start to come crashing down and the cap monster bites.



I hope you're right. But another excellent poster questioned me right after and asked why I thought we weren't. It seemd he though the same too tha twe are one now.

But I agree with you and anyone else that recognizes next year we are not. But if it will take 3 years to be a SB Contender, why sign Barkley or mention the signing in a positive light?


I would have let Barkley walk.

My take on Sean is that he is not happy. His position on this is a challenge. Something like this...

Ok, you spent all this money, if you can't go out and put an SB contender on the field, this was a complete failure. Prove that wrong!



I 100% agree with everything you are saying here. I hope Sean feels the same way.

I have to see about the current contract for Jones. I was against signing him for near $40m. IF this contract is like that, - and they don't win enough in 2024, I'm gonna turn big time on these threads like I did with DG. - Though DG I thought he was a moron from the start.


That's your god-given right as a fan!
Re: my Super Bowl window comment  
Sean : 3/7/2023 7:07 pm : link
When you make this kind of commitment in a QB, you do it because you feel he can lead the team to a Super Bowl during the contract. I’m shocked I’m getting pushback on this.
RE: Ryan Tannehill contract  
No1MDGiantsFan : 3/7/2023 7:12 pm : link
In comment 16055964 uther99 said:
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part Duh . Nice job Schoen


LOL you are utterly clueless
Incentives  
Bourne ‘86 : 3/7/2023 7:13 pm : link
When do we expect to hear the details on the 35 million worth of incentives?
RE: The Giants defense was slow and exposed by Dallas & Philly  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/7/2023 7:13 pm : link
In comment 16055914 Sean said:
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The Giants are always investing in WR it feels like. Get faster on defense.


They're always investing in it because the last front office failed to find them
---  
Peppers : 3/7/2023 7:15 pm : link
As I said weeks ago it was always a matter of closing the gap with the guarantees.. They had to get creative but be happy with Schoen and Abrams. They did a good job.
RE: Re: my Super Bowl window comment  
.McL. : 3/7/2023 7:18 pm : link
In comment 16055976 Sean said:
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When you make this kind of commitment in a QB, you do it because you feel he can lead the team to a Super Bowl during the contract. I’m shocked I’m getting pushback on this.

I'm with ya Sean
RE: Re: my Super Bowl window comment  
section125 : 3/7/2023 7:19 pm : link
In comment 16055976 Sean said:
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When you make this kind of commitment in a QB, you do it because you feel he can lead the team to a Super Bowl during the contract. I’m shocked I’m getting pushback on this.


I think because the expected outcome is to be able to consistently compete to be in the Super Bowl. While I can hope to get into a Super Bowl, the realistic expectation is to get far into the playoffs. Once you get to the playoffs anything can happen.
But for shits and giggles, what do you think the fans of the Browns are thinking with a QB that is getting triple the guaranteed money Jones is getting?
RE: RE: The Giants defense was slow and exposed by Dallas & Philly  
.McL. : 3/7/2023 7:21 pm : link
In comment 16055988 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 16055914 Sean said:


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The Giants are always investing in WR it feels like. Get faster on defense.



They're always investing in it because the last front office failed to find them

The last Front Office failed to find a lot of things...

WRs
TEs
IOLs
LBs

Need 2 of these and they only found 1 OT, 1 Edge (maybe), 1 CB (sort of)

I'm not sure the last FO could find their ASS with a roadmap!
RE: RE: RE: Jones is only as good  
Eman11 : 3/7/2023 7:23 pm : link
In comment 16055794 Carson53 said:
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as his Oline. Giants need to shore up on the Oline. If it were me, that would be my main priority this entire offseason.


We need to sign or draft (preferably draft) a new center and a guard

.

^This


Agreed. I’d be thrilled if Torrence is there at 25 and is their pick.
RE: Good job to all involved  
ColHowPepper : 3/7/2023 7:35 pm : link
In comment 16055697 bw in dc said:
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OL for sure. We just picked a bad year to need a WR in the free agency pool. Not a bumper crop at all. Lots of WRs and WR3s.

The best opportunity looks to be the draft. Maybe a trade or a quality gets unexpectedly cut to get under the cap. But those seems like longer shot solutions at this moment.
I think the thin FA pool for WRs may work in our favor. 1st, I don't like the mega $$ they will command, at the cost of other, urgently needed upgrades, 2nd, Schoen has proven creative in who he can find among the lost and forgotten, and 3rd, absolutely the draft: now that DJ and SB are, for the moment, set in stone, that unlocks potential maneuvers on draft day, up or down, depending on who they like.
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