Looks like Schoen did a good job
Said on @SNYtv to wait for fine details before reacting to Daniel Jones' contract with the #Giants.
Here's why, per sources:
4-year deal came with $36m signing bonus. Base salaries are $9.5m (23), $36.5m (24), $30m (25) & $46.5m (26).
The #Giants guaranteed his entire '23 and '24 base salaries. $12m of Jones' $30m '25 base becomes GTD if he's on roster 5th day of 2025 league year, while $12m is GTD for injury at signing.
There are no guarnatees for the final year ($46.5m).
Jones' cap hits are as follows:
2023: $18.5m
2024: $45.5m
2025: $39.5m
2026: $55.5m
Giants *can* get out of contract after 2024 if they were to release Jones before the 5th day of the 2025 league year (and before the $12m vests). More likely: It's a 3-year deal.
Cut after '25: $46.5 save, $9m dead.
AAV for 3 years: $37.3m (NYG wanted $35-$37) — 10th in NFL
The cap hits of $45.5m and $39.5m in 2024 & 2025 seem crazy, yes. However something you need to remember that Joe Schoen knows:
There will be another large cap jump in 2024, then a massive one in 2025 as TV deals hit books. What might look crazy now will not feel crazy then.
The major benefit to this contract for the #Giants is Jones' third year (2025).
If he plays how they expect him to, that $30m base/$39.5m cap hit gives #NYG SIGNFICANT fianancial flexbility a year before they would look to extend him again.
It's a good deal — really good deal
LINK - (
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Seems like good business on both sides
Seems like good business on both sides
Correct. This is what I was expecting, a lot of guaranteed money for the first 2-3 years and then an easy out after year 3 if they want.
For him to say it’s a good deal might mean something.
Year 4 might be cheap might be cuttable depending on DJ, team, and cap.
I assume the incentives are hard to reach - pro bowl, sb, mvp, etc.
The most notable element is the trigger for guarantees for year three happen right before the season. The big dogs get that trigger the year before.
For instance Murray's 2025 roster bonus and salary is guaranteed before the 2024 season.
Jones doesn't get any 2025 money guaranteed until right before 2025, which makes it much easier to cut him.
The three year version is 3/104M at a 35 AAV.
The two year version is 2/82 at a 41M AAV.
Team Jones gets a C+ for this deal.
The most notable element is the trigger for guarantees for year three happen right before the season. The big dogs get that trigger the year before.
For instance Murray's 2025 roster bonus and salary is guaranteed before the 2024 season.
Jones doesn't get any 2025 money guaranteed until right before 2025, which makes it much easier to cut him.
The three year version is 3/104M at a 35 AAV.
The two year version is 2/82 at a 41M AAV.
Team Jones gets a C+ for this deal.
$82+ million guaranteed, $94 million guaranteed for injury, for an ascending, but not proven QB, and that's a C+?
You're a tough grader, ha ha.
The most notable element is the trigger for guarantees for year three happen right before the season. The big dogs get that trigger the year before.
For instance Murray's 2025 roster bonus and salary is guaranteed before the 2024 season.
Jones doesn't get any 2025 money guaranteed until right before 2025, which makes it much easier to cut him.
The three year version is 3/104M at a 35 AAV.
The two year version is 2/82 at a 41M AAV.
Team Jones gets a C+ for this deal.
not sure i agree. he got +12m over carr in the first 2 years, and it seems like a much stronger likelihood of continuing into year 3 of his deal. it's only a 4 year deal, and in year 4 the cap # is the highest of all 4 years.
Probably wont have time to do a post on the Jones contract but its pretty solid for him. Nearly 42% raise over the franchise tag this year. 15% raise over two tags. #Giants
so if it ends after 2 years, he's gotten himself a 15% raise over 2 tags and guaranteed it up front. that's his big win and in return he gave up 2 years of control.
if it ends after 3 years he goes back to FA with 117m in his pocket at age 28 - even if it's no longer thought of as a starting qb. but in reality he'll have given up nothing by taking that extra year because he hasnt played well enough to have "left money on the table".
if things are going well he is in a strong position to negotiate off the big $ 4th year.
It's like buying a house for $500k and now it's worth $1M. If you buy a new house in the same neighborhood, it's going to cost you $1M, so the increase in value is somewhat negated by the fact you now have to spend way more to buy a house in the same neighborhood.
The only way to realize that value is to move to a cheaper neighborhood; in NFL terms that would be reducing the cost of certain positions (rookie QB contracts for example).
no i think that one gets referenced for a while yet to come. hopefully that one becomes "why is tyree in the game?!?!?!" 2.0.
The most notable element is the trigger for guarantees for year three happen right before the season. The big dogs get that trigger the year before.
For instance Murray's 2025 roster bonus and salary is guaranteed before the 2024 season.
Jones doesn't get any 2025 money guaranteed until right before 2025, which makes it much easier to cut him.
The three year version is 3/104M at a 35 AAV.
The two year version is 2/82 at a 41M AAV.
Team Jones gets a C+ for this deal.
Per Spotrac:
The two year version is $94 million at 47M AAV.
The three year version is $121.5M at $40.5M AAV.
That last figure breaks down to $112.5M live cap and $9M dead cap.
OTC seems to agree, but I find Spotrac easier to read at first glance.
That would significantly perk up the grade.
Of course, tell me I'm wrong if appropriate.
spotrac - ( New Window )
Per Spotrac:
The two year version is $94 million at 47M AAV.
The three year version is $121.5M at $40.5M AAV.
That last figure breaks down to $112.5M live cap and $9M dead cap.
OTC seems to agree, but I find Spotrac easier to read at first glance.
That would significantly perk up the grade.
Of course, tell me I'm wrong if appropriate. spotrac - ( New Window )
I'll correct myself to an extent: the $9M dead cap is included in the 112.5, so it is 37.5M AAV as headed above.
Still better than 3/104.
Both Prescott and Murray had big guarantees vest 2 years out.
After 2 years this is a year-to-year deal with no new guarantees.
If graded against the tag, sure. If graded against contemporary QBs, this isn't a strong contract.
I'll correct myself to an extent: the $9M dead cap is included in the 112.5, so it is 37.5M AAV as headed above.
Still better than 3/104.
I missed the 9M in bonus money on year 4. I believe the correct number is indeed 112.5M.
Schoen didn't have to blink b/c he always had the tag. Not what he wanted to do, but if forced he would have done that.
Both Prescott and Murray had big guarantees vest 2 years out.
After 2 years this is a year-to-year deal with no new guarantees.
If graded against the tag, sure. If graded against contemporary QBs, this isn't a strong contract.
how about graded against Carr's deal which was truly open market?
i dont know if there's certainty yet on when that roster bonus gets triggered so it's possible there is some year 3 $. ive seen 2 or 3 different versions of that and i dont know if there's a confirmed one yet.
its a fair deal for both sides - which to me means neither side got everything they wanted but both sides got something significant. which i think happened here.
Not to mention all those 4th quarter comeback wins (clutch under pressure), lack of turnovers, and his commitment to excellence.
2022 QBR - ( New Window )
Ditto.
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The biggest miss for Jones is not getting year 3 guarantees vested before year two starts.
Both Prescott and Murray had big guarantees vest 2 years out.
After 2 years this is a year-to-year deal with no new guarantees.
If graded against the tag, sure. If graded against contemporary QBs, this isn't a strong contract.
how about graded against Carr's deal which was truly open market?
Vs. the guy who's 5+ years older and had tepid demand in the market? Better contract for Jones, sure.
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In comment 16057232 christian said:
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The biggest miss for Jones is not getting year 3 guarantees vested before year two starts.
Both Prescott and Murray had big guarantees vest 2 years out.
After 2 years this is a year-to-year deal with no new guarantees.
If graded against the tag, sure. If graded against contemporary QBs, this isn't a strong contract.
how about graded against Carr's deal which was truly open market?
Vs. the guy who's 5+ years older and had tepid demand in the market? Better contract for Jones, sure.
that wasnt a guarantee though. many hoped they could sign jones for less than whatever carr was going to cost (pre-carr deal getting announced). or thought it was crazy that jones was bargaining for dramatically more than carr.
i think team jones getting > than carr was probably the minimum bar they had to clear for it to be a good deal for him and they did that even though they didnt clear it by much. carr has made 4 pro bowls including 1 in 2022 (which was ironic given 2021 was one of the best year's of his career and he didnt make it). everything landed in a pretty fair, logical, midmarket range for both Carr/Jones with teams that i think fit both of them pretty well.
Now vs. recent veteran starters on their second contract?
Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you feel Jones was a candidate to match the 100+ Murray full guarantee threshold?
Now vs. recent veteran starters on their second contract?
Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you feel Jones was a candidate to match the 100+ Murray full guarantee threshold?
if on a 5 year deal like kyler yes. he got 82m (or 94m?) on a 4 year deal so he got pretty close while staying 1 year closer to his next deal (and giving the nyg 1 less year of control).
Now vs. recent veteran starters on their second contract?
Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you feel Jones was a candidate to match the 100+ Murray full guarantee threshold?
I would have thought so - $100 mill gtd. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Jones is betting on himself again and will be looking to extend after year three - OTC says he has a $56 mill hit in 2026(year 4). By then $56 mill may not be a big deal in QB money, but it should be high enough to make the Giants look for an extension to reduce the hit. Dak did similar(may not workout for him) in that he only wanted a 4 year contract when the Cowboys wanted 5 years. Lets him hit the market again after the TV money is really kicked in.
Both players have triggers that convey to guarantees. Murray much moreso than Jones's 12M, which reads like it only vests if he's on the roster at the start of 2025.
So I *think* the apples to apples number is 103 vs. 82.
So with 20M minimum more guaranteed, and 70M in total value, I think Murray's deal is a superior contract.
Both players have triggers that convey to guarantees. Murray much moreso than Jones's 12M, which reads like it only vests if he's on the roster at the start of 2025.
So I *think* the apples to apples number is 103 vs. 82.
So with 20M minimum more guaranteed, and 70M in total value, I think Murray's deal is a superior contract.
obviously. i dont think that was ever in question. the AAV kyler got (46m) was higher than the alleged ask from Jones team, so a superior contract to kyler's was nobodies goal.
if you divide your apples to apples gtd numbers by the respective years of the contract that comes out to roughly 20.5m guaranteed dollars per year of control for each player's contract. add 1 more year at that same rate and the same AAV jones got (40m) and you get the contract i was guessing (5 years, 100m gtd, 200m overall). jones getting almost all of that but 1 less year i think benefits him more than nyg but there's an argument either way on that.
larry david was right that a good compromise is when nobody is satisfied.
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On who lost. A deal was reached, so everyone is satisfied.
larry david was right that a good compromise is when nobody is satisfied.
lol, that is another way of looking at it. But if the Giants didn't want it, they wouldn't have offered it, and if Jones didn't want it, he wouldn't have signed. Nobody lost. The Giants got a contract that protects them and gives them a content QB. Jones got 92m and bragging rights on a gimmicky "4" number AAV.
The most notable element is the trigger for guarantees for year three happen right before the season. The big dogs get that trigger the year before.
For instance Murray's 2025 roster bonus and salary is guaranteed before the 2024 season.
Jones doesn't get any 2025 money guaranteed until right before 2025, which makes it much easier to cut him.
The three year version is 3/104M at a 35 AAV.
The two year version is 2/82 at a 41M AAV.
Team Jones gets a C+ for this deal.