So now that we have had the chance to disect DJ's Contract,I wonder what you all think.
How would you grade the deal,from the Front Office's position?
I know this has come up on the myriad threads,but there are so many it's difficult to keep up with.
I was very happy with the AAV,and also happy that it is only a 4 year deal,not 5.
The only thing keeping me from giving it an A+ is the cap hit during the second year.
Perhaps that is nit picking,but that's what we do here at BBI.
My grade-A
What sayith tho?
B+ - While it is essentially a 3 year deal, I think the overall AAV is too high by about $3 mill per and I do not like the incentive part. I feel there is too much money available. If the AAV was in the $37 mill range, then the incentives would be more palatable.
If he does earn the incentives, then that's great for him and us. So it's still an A if we pay him the incentives.
How he performs will obviously decide whether my “opinion” grade holds up or not
B+ - While it is essentially a 3 year deal, I think the overall AAV is too high by about $3 mill per and I do not like the incentive part. I feel there is too much money available. If the AAV was in the $37 mill range, then the incentives would be more palatable.
In general I agree.
The Base contract without the incentives would be a B, a little high but not egregiously so.
When you add in the incentives, especially the easily achievable ones, it adds 3.5 - 5M a year for production the equivalent of last year.
It ranks DJ in the 10-15 range of QB's over the first few years which is about where he belongs. He has the opportunity to outperform his contract which is crazy.
Also pleased that Daniel seemed to factor in how could he satisfy his demands and not severely compromise Schoen s chances of improving the team.
what happened...too many drinks at the Gin Mill last nite?
give us a grade....
I give it a D - I think we are capping the ceiling on the team for the next few years with Daniel Jones as our QB as a team that might get to nine or ten wins and make the playoffs but will not be a serious contender. I simply don't think he can lead us to the top ten offense I think is necessary for serious contention. I hear everyone on the weapons - I just don't see it with Jones. I hope I'm wrong.
I also think most of the contracts for QBs above $30 million are terrible. The exceptions are for the truly elite or the teams that have good enough rosters to compete and have no choice but to keep the average/above-average player they have. I think the Giants miss the playoffs next year and we realize how far away the team is from serious contention.
I don't give it an F because: a) I wanted Jones back, just on the franchise tag; and b) There is an out after years 2 and 3. So it's not an insane commitment.
Schoen and the Giants were left with room to maneuver and still satisfy Daniel.
Regardless of what's been said, I don't think this negotiation process was particularly adversarial.
A+
I give it a D - I think we are capping the ceiling on the team for the next few years with Daniel Jones as our QB as a team that might get to nine or ten wins and make the playoffs but will not be a serious contender. I simply don't think he can lead us to the top ten offense I think is necessary for serious contention. I hear everyone on the weapons - I just don't see it with Jones. I hope I'm wrong.
I also think most of the contracts for QBs above $30 million are terrible. The exceptions are for the truly elite or the teams that have good enough rosters to compete and have no choice but to keep the average/above-average player they have. I think the Giants miss the playoffs next year and we realize how far away the team is from serious contention.
I don't give it an F because: a) I wanted Jones back, just on the franchise tag; and b) There is an out after years 2 and 3. So it's not an insane commitment.
tl;dr
Schoen and the Giants were left with room to maneuver and still satisfy Daniel.
Regardless of what's been said, I don't think this negotiation process was particularly adversarial.
A+
my understanding was they fully agreed at like 3:53pm on the 7th....
The bigger and more important thing I am hearing from Schoen is that there are more players that will need to be paid and that he wants to build mostly from the draft.
Jones is the best option for the next two years. Hopefully he improves and I think he will.
If it goes South he can address the position again. Keep adding good players so if they have to go again QB searching the team will be in a lot better position from the get go to support a rookie.
If things go great then they can address the contract in a couple years.
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Team Daniel made out fine and he left the Giants a window to tag Barkley.
Schoen and the Giants were left with room to maneuver and still satisfy Daniel.
Regardless of what's been said, I don't think this negotiation process was particularly adversarial.
A+
my understanding was they fully agreed at like 3:53pm on the 7th....
Could have been. I'm out west. It seemed like hours when I read it, which it was here.
More I think about it, it probably was.
Let's say all things go well expect Jones we have SHOLD have a fully stocked team just in need of a QB with a managable and flexible cap.
Joe S has a nice draft his grade marking for his 1st full year of GM should be no lower than a B+/A-. I am assuming FA goes ok we get 1 ILB, 1 SS and 1 IOL prior to the draft. I'd like a TE and WR as well but not counting on it.
Well said Paterson.
I'd give it an A/B grade based on this. I'd bet both sides are pretty happy with the deal.
Let's say all things go well expect Jones we SHOULD have a fully stocked team just in need of a QB with a managable and flexible cap.
Joe S has a nice draft his grade marking for his 1st full year of GM should be no lower than a B+/A-. I am assuming FA goes ok we get 1 ILB, 1 SS and 1 IOL prior to the draft. I'd like a TE and WR as well but not counting on it.
Regarding the Giants, the most important thing IMO was to be able to get out of the contract after 2 years with no cap hit or maybe even a cap savings, and they did that.
The 2nd most important thing was not to blow out the cap, and the contract is team friendly in 2023. It's expensive in 2024 so I knock the Giants down a little for that, but overall a very good contract.
So many are worried about getting out in 3yrs, I'm not, but still think that was possible with a 5 yr deal.
Nitpicking, but I wanted the 3 yr average to be in 35-37M range. So 37.5M Is pretty damn close, but they get a little knock there.
I was afraid they were going to do 3yrs deal, so I'm very happy with the 4yrs, just wish it were 5yrs.
But overall I'm happy it got done, and it's pretty much right where one should expect it to be.
As for the DJ contract, I’d give it a B+. He’s the Giants QB, they had to pay him. I’m confident in Daboll and Schoen that they’ve evaluated him correctly and Daboll will continue to develop him. Cap will increase, and soon QB’s will be making 50-55mil. So DJ will not be among the 10 highest paid at the position towards the back half (in terms of his APY)
If it doesn’t work out, they have an out after 2.
Good deal all around
The only way this contract becomes successful is if Daniel Jones takes a big step forward to elite status. Ideally, this would have been a 3-year contract with the 3rd year a team option. That way, next year could have been another evaluation year and, if he doesn't take a step forward, then draft a QB in 2024. Given the dead money in 2025, that's less likely now.
Schoen and the Giants were left with room to maneuver and still satisfy Daniel.
Regardless of what's been said, I don't think this negotiation process was particularly adversarial.
A+
Jones said they agreed at 3:46. He gave a time.
As for the DJ contract, I’d give it a B+. He’s the Giants QB, they had to pay him. I’m confident in Daboll and Schoen that they’ve evaluated him correctly and Daboll will continue to develop him. Cap will increase, and soon QB’s will be making 50-55mil. So DJ will not be among the 10 highest paid at the position towards the back half (in terms of his APY)
If it doesn’t work out, they have an out after 2.
Good deal all around
They are rated by the league as likely to receive or unlikely. Likely must be counted against the cap straight up at the season start. Unlikely are added after the season is completed - believe added to cap if the team has room if not subtracted from cap space next season.
IIRC
However, the actual contract itself, other than money, is genius. If it goes badly, we're not stuck long term. This can be a two year 'mistake' if absolutely needed to be.
It's a bit more than two tags in a row and gives cap flexibility that the tag doesn't. Giants can get out in year 3 (with some pain) and year 4 with little pain.
Seems reasonable for both sides
I give it a D - I think we are capping the ceiling on the team for the next few years with Daniel Jones as our QB as a team that might get to nine or ten wins and make the playoffs but will not be a serious contender. I simply don't think he can lead us to the top ten offense I think is necessary for serious contention. I hear everyone on the weapons - I just don't see it with Jones. I hope I'm wrong.
I also think most of the contracts for QBs above $30 million are terrible. The exceptions are for the truly elite or the teams that have good enough rosters to compete and have no choice but to keep the average/above-average player they have. I think the Giants miss the playoffs next year and we realize how far away the team is from serious contention.
I don't give it an F because: a) I wanted Jones back, just on the franchise tag; and b) There is an out after years 2 and 3. So it's not an insane commitment.
the question then flips to what's the better alternative?
carr cost the same and while maybe he raises the passing ceiling, losing the running makes him a worse fit.
there are teams in the top 10 of the draft this year who are probably going to have a hard time getting up above houston, indy, seattle for qbs so i dont think the nyg have much of a shot at 25. right now they can't plan on that at least.
jimmy g or tannehill will cost almost the same as jones and you get older players with lower ceilings.
the best alternative knowing he got non-exclusive tag could be going all in on lamar if you think he's at that level of being worth it, but that's a much bigger financial bet with guaranteed $ starting well over 200m and costing 2x first round picks. and the less big you go with the $ the more likely baltimore just matches the deal and you are back to square 1.
saving $ doesn't put people in the seats or keep coaches employed if their team is non-competitive because they don't have a competent starting qb.
a) I do not believe there was a viable alternative to Jones in 2023. Tyrod Taylor sucks and the gap between him and Jones is massive.
b) I do not think Jones can win a Super Bowl unless he is on a stacked team like SF.
c) I think it's likely the next choice is even worse than Jones (I point to the high failure rate of drafted QBs).
d) I prioritize passing offenses given the history of recent Super Bowl contenders. I don't think Jones is capable of being elite there - again, passing production as measured by yards/TD, he is quite good at limiting turnovers. I also don't think there is a viable set of alternatives over the next two years to get Jones 'average' WRs. The UFA class sucks and we have the 25th pick. I don't see a path forward here. Could I be wrong? Sure, I think this is a reasonable source of disagreement amongst posters (but one that has been beaten to death). The NYG offense has been poor in the passing game but the weapons suck - I think reasonable minds can disagree here on how they allocate blame, etc.
I think the Giants were in a challenging strategic position coming off a surprising playoff berth. Jones was an enormous contributor. If he missed 3-4 games like he did in prior years, we don't make it. He had to come back. If I were king of NYG, I would have franchised him and tried to trade him with the eye towards drafting a QB in 2024. If I had the job and near-term pressures NFL executives have, I probably would have made comparable choices as Schoen - but I would have tried the tag first. I don't think another team was going to offer him a comparable deal at the cost of two first round picks.
a) I do not believe there was a viable alternative to Jones in 2023. Tyrod Taylor sucks and the gap between him and Jones is massive.
b) I do not think Jones can win a Super Bowl unless he is on a stacked team like SF.
c) I think it's likely the next choice is even worse than Jones (I point to the high failure rate of drafted QBs).
d) I prioritize passing offenses given the history of recent Super Bowl contenders. I don't think Jones is capable of being elite there - again, passing production as measured by yards/TD, he is quite good at limiting turnovers. I also don't think there is a viable set of alternatives over the next two years to get Jones 'average' WRs. The UFA class sucks and we have the 25th pick. I don't see a path forward here. Could I be wrong? Sure, I think this is a reasonable source of disagreement amongst posters (but one that has been beaten to death). The NYG offense has been poor in the passing game but the weapons suck - I think reasonable minds can disagree here on how they allocate blame, etc.
I think the Giants were in a challenging strategic position coming off a surprising playoff berth. Jones was an enormous contributor. If he missed 3-4 games like he did in prior years, we don't make it. He had to come back. If I were king of NYG, I would have franchised him and tried to trade him with the eye towards drafting a QB in 2024. If I had the job and near-term pressures NFL executives have, I probably would have made comparable choices as Schoen - but I would have tried the tag first. I don't think another team was going to offer him a comparable deal at the cost of two first round picks.
i think that's all sensible, and honestly i kind of expected tag more than extension because schoen has appeared to me to be relatively risk averse. or at least he was year 1.
hearing him say tag was his "worst case scenario" and seeing the quality of contract makes me think daboll really likes jones and they do legitimately see upside there.
the only area ill slightly disagree with you on is the prospect of upgrading at WR. last year christian watson got picked #32 and Pickens went #52. adding a rookie like either of them at #25 would make an impact as a big upgrade over slayton. even just adding another wandale to this offense would make an impact. on top of that i think if they were motivated to get hopkins in the next week they could do that, and even in 9 games last year he still had more receptions than the nyg top receiver so there's enough in the tank that he'd make a big impact. they might not like hopkins or they may prefer others but i think they will find ways to upgrade that room significantly this offseason. Berrios would be a really nice add and presumably he will cost less than the reasonable 5.5m he was scheduled to make.
Hodgins, an explosive 1st/2nd round pick, Berrios, Wandale, with 2 or 3 other depth guys gets things going in the right direction and if they did also land a bigger fish like hopkins they are in a different stratosphere.
First, I don't want to pigeon-hole the 25th pick into a receiver - this team has a lot of needs and I don't want to reach if value isn't there. You also have some probability of getting a bust. Second, I think if you plug in a #1 receiver you have a good set of weapons, but not elite. Hopkins would be a great get but we still trail behind the elite units of the Bengals, Eagles, 49ers, etc. And this sort of goes back to my thinking on the ability to build a contender: we need elite units. I think people talk about bad units and getting them to okay as if it's a check-the-box type of analysis. We need elite units to carry the team to contention. Bengals have the WRs and Burrow, Eagles have the line and WRs (I actually think Hurts is excellent but we can leave that conversation alone for now), Niners have the line and a ton of weapons, etc. How do we get there? That path is much harder IMO.
This means we are tied to DJ,who has queston marks to his game,for 1 less year...with the ability to restructure the deal in a few years into a higher salary cap environment...if he earns it and plays well
Imagine we lived in a world where everything is exactly as it is now, but by dint of good fortune, we have two first round picks, one at #25, and one somewhere in the Top 10. Suddenly, Team Jones doesn't have quite the same leverage, because drafting a viable Day 1 starter at QB suddenly is on the table.
In that world, a contract for Jones is probably closer to the FT number than what he got. But in this world, we didn't have that Top 10 pick, so Team Jones exploited that leverage to get their guy the deal he ended up getting.
And hindsight might yet prove that they didn't overpay at all.
Most of all, I like that they got it done under the deadline for the tag, which allowed them to then tag Barkley. I think the two of them play well off each other and make the Giants much more difficult to defend once we have a WR or two. Now, a2 year deal that Barkley is happy with but doesn't see the Giants grossly overpaying would be the cherry on top.
21.5 million is just enough to work with if Jones flames out to limit the deal to 2 years. Have to imagine Jones’ camp was fighting for every guaranteed dollar possible in year 3.
2023 cap hit: 19 million: B+
This gives the Giants adequate but not great flexibility to continue the rebuild now.
2024 cap hit: 45 million: C+
This cap hit makes next offseason a lot tougher.
2026 cap savings for pre June cut: 47.5 million: A
If Jones is really approaching 47.5 mil in value by year 4, something went right.
2025 cap hit: 39.5 million: B
If the Giants keep Jones for year 3 of the deal, the cap hit is closer to the deal’s AAV.
The Giants Organization: D-; Schoen and Daboll have now tied their future to the binary outcome of a middling talent at quarterback being paid for the duration of his time here at an elite level. Schoen will now need to be a magician in managing the cap implications which will be severe. And while Daboll appears to be the absolute goods as a coach, I am not sure that miracle worker is in his bag of tools. Perhaps it is. But Gettleman is now off the hook on DJ. As DJ goes, so too now shall Schoen and Daboll. And that is a shame because there is no more "patience" now for regression and taking steps back in defense of a proper rebuild. The Giants are a win now team for the duration of this contract. Anything less than a solid step forward in 2023 will be disastrous to everyone - except DJ.
The fans: A-; For some reason, fans like high degrees of certainty. A familiar refrain around here is "thank God we have our franchise quarterback now". I don't get this line of thinking. Many compare our situation as being far superior to the Commanders and the Jets in 2022, and yet we won one more game than the Commanders and two more games than the Jets, both of whom had harder schedules. Who cares if we have franchise quarterback but can't ever beat the Eagles or Cowboys? I certainly don't. But I am clearly in minority here as most fans appear to be thrilled. And yet in reading the reactions here and elsewhere, we seem to have a situation now where DJ is being paid and viewed as more vital to this team than LT or Eli were to their respective teams. Really? Truly bizarre. But very much the reality now until the rubber hits the road in September.
First, I don't want to pigeon-hole the 25th pick into a receiver - this team has a lot of needs and I don't want to reach if value isn't there. You also have some probability of getting a bust. Second, I think if you plug in a #1 receiver you have a good set of weapons, but not elite. Hopkins would be a great get but we still trail behind the elite units of the Bengals, Eagles, 49ers, etc. And this sort of goes back to my thinking on the ability to build a contender: we need elite units. I think people talk about bad units and getting them to okay as if it's a check-the-box type of analysis. We need elite units to carry the team to contention. Bengals have the WRs and Burrow, Eagles have the line and WRs (I actually think Hurts is excellent but we can leave that conversation alone for now), Niners have the line and a ton of weapons, etc. How do we get there? That path is much harder IMO.
as long as they add some decent vets i dont think they are pigeon holed into a WR at #25. like i said last year pickens went 52 and they obviously took robinson in the 2nd round so its a position you can definitely get contributors out of the first round if it's not the best value in the first. the way the nfl is now i think you basically need to be taking 1 day1/2 WR every year.
adding berrios to replace richie james is a move id really like to see knowing robinson may need some time before he can fully fill that role. if slayton only gets a 1 year deal id be ok bringing him back but i think he'll do better than that so that's where id be interested in a vet with starting experience on a prove it deal like hopkins or robert woods. tyler boyd or tim patrick would be nice adds if they are available cheap.
with 11 draft picks they have some flexibility to trade 1 or 2 of those picks. like i said i think id be taking a WR before day 3 every year as a standard practice so even if they did that and traded say the toney pick for hopkins, they still have 2 top 90 picks left to put on defense or ol and then all the day 3 picks (and whatever cap room left).
I'm on board with a Hopkins trade as well. Signing Jones and franchising Barkley suggests some sort of near-term window to me. I was against the Barkley pick, don't like a fat deal, think he regresses a tad but he is our only top-tier offensive weapon right now. We have to give Jones something.
The Giants Organization: D-; Schoen and Daboll have now tied their future to the binary outcome of a middling talent at quarterback being paid for the duration of his time here at an elite level. Schoen will now need to be a magician in managing the cap implications which will be severe. And while Daboll appears to be the absolute goods as a coach, I am not sure that miracle worker is in his bag of tools. Perhaps it is. But Gettleman is now off the hook on DJ. As DJ goes, so too now shall Schoen and Daboll. And that is a shame because there is no more "patience" now for regression and taking steps back in defense of a proper rebuild. The Giants are a win now team for the duration of this contract. Anything less than a solid step forward in 2023 will be disastrous to everyone - except DJ.
What he is getting is not elite level $$. It is midlevel and soon to be lower level for starting QBs.
Your level of anxiety is level, though.
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DJ:
The Giants Organization: D-; Schoen and Daboll have now tied their future to the binary outcome of a middling talent at quarterback being paid for the duration of his time here at an elite level. Schoen will now need to be a magician in managing the cap implications which will be severe. And while Daboll appears to be the absolute goods as a coach, I am not sure that miracle worker is in his bag of tools. Perhaps it is. But Gettleman is now off the hook on DJ. As DJ goes, so too now shall Schoen and Daboll. And that is a shame because there is no more "patience" now for regression and taking steps back in defense of a proper rebuild. The Giants are a win now team for the duration of this contract. Anything less than a solid step forward in 2023 will be disastrous to everyone - except DJ.
What he is getting is not elite level $$. It is midlevel and soon to be lower level for starting QBs.
Your level of anxiety is level, though.
I gave it an A so I guess I am flummoxed by a D- rating.
But even more confusing is how it's lose for the Giants as a team but good for us the fans???
Most fans want what is best for the team no??
I guess if one isn't happy with DJ as our QB then you want no part of a deal.
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In comment 16058378 The Mike said:
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DJ:
The Giants Organization: D-; Schoen and Daboll have now tied their future to the binary outcome of a middling talent at quarterback being paid for the duration of his time here at an elite level. Schoen will now need to be a magician in managing the cap implications which will be severe. And while Daboll appears to be the absolute goods as a coach, I am not sure that miracle worker is in his bag of tools. Perhaps it is. But Gettleman is now off the hook on DJ. As DJ goes, so too now shall Schoen and Daboll. And that is a shame because there is no more "patience" now for regression and taking steps back in defense of a proper rebuild. The Giants are a win now team for the duration of this contract. Anything less than a solid step forward in 2023 will be disastrous to everyone - except DJ.
What he is getting is not elite level $$. It is midlevel and soon to be lower level for starting QBs.
Your level of anxiety is level, though.
I gave it an A so I guess I am flummoxed by a D- rating.
But even more confusing is how it's lose for the Giants as a team but good for us the fans???
Most fans want what is best for the team no??
I guess if one isn't happy with DJ as our QB then you want no part of a deal.
I am grading the general reaction by the majority of the fans. My personal reaction is a D-. I see him as a Marcus Mariota. So would you consider this a good deal if we were signing Marcus Mariota?
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In comment 16058387 section125 said:
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In comment 16058378 The Mike said:
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DJ:
The Giants Organization: D-; Schoen and Daboll have now tied their future to the binary outcome of a middling talent at quarterback being paid for the duration of his time here at an elite level. Schoen will now need to be a magician in managing the cap implications which will be severe. And while Daboll appears to be the absolute goods as a coach, I am not sure that miracle worker is in his bag of tools. Perhaps it is. But Gettleman is now off the hook on DJ. As DJ goes, so too now shall Schoen and Daboll. And that is a shame because there is no more "patience" now for regression and taking steps back in defense of a proper rebuild. The Giants are a win now team for the duration of this contract. Anything less than a solid step forward in 2023 will be disastrous to everyone - except DJ.
What he is getting is not elite level $$. It is midlevel and soon to be lower level for starting QBs.
Your level of anxiety is level, though.
I gave it an A so I guess I am flummoxed by a D- rating.
But even more confusing is how it's lose for the Giants as a team but good for us the fans???
Most fans want what is best for the team no??
I guess if one isn't happy with DJ as our QB then you want no part of a deal.
I am grading the general reaction by the majority of the fans. My personal reaction is a D-. I see him as a Marcus Mariota. So would you consider this a good deal if we were signing Marcus Mariota?
But, he's not Marcus Mariota. If he were, then ok D-.
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In comment 16058403 AG5686 said:
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In comment 16058387 section125 said:
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In comment 16058378 The Mike said:
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DJ:
The Giants Organization: D-; Schoen and Daboll have now tied their future to the binary outcome of a middling talent at quarterback being paid for the duration of his time here at an elite level. Schoen will now need to be a magician in managing the cap implications which will be severe. And while Daboll appears to be the absolute goods as a coach, I am not sure that miracle worker is in his bag of tools. Perhaps it is. But Gettleman is now off the hook on DJ. As DJ goes, so too now shall Schoen and Daboll. And that is a shame because there is no more "patience" now for regression and taking steps back in defense of a proper rebuild. The Giants are a win now team for the duration of this contract. Anything less than a solid step forward in 2023 will be disastrous to everyone - except DJ.
What he is getting is not elite level $$. It is midlevel and soon to be lower level for starting QBs.
Your level of anxiety is level, though.
I gave it an A so I guess I am flummoxed by a D- rating.
But even more confusing is how it's lose for the Giants as a team but good for us the fans???
Most fans want what is best for the team no??
I guess if one isn't happy with DJ as our QB then you want no part of a deal.
I am grading the general reaction by the majority of the fans. My personal reaction is a D-. I see him as a Marcus Mariota. So would you consider this a good deal if we were signing Marcus Mariota?
But, he's not Marcus Mariota. If he were, then ok D-.
We'll see.
But, he's not Marcus Mariota. If he were, then ok D-.
We'll see.
But we have seen. He is not Mariota.
You love this silly line of attack. And seem to only use it when you disagree with someone's else's opinion. You had no problem I see with any of the gushing grades on this thread.
I was even more critical about the Golladay contract two years ago and vividly remember a number of posters, probably you, saying you trust Judge more than anyone on BBI. That has aged well, hasn't it? The OP asked for opinions. Some of which may differ from yours. For the sake of this board, please come up with some new material...
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...you are confidant that you are better equipped to evaluate NFL QBs than Daboll and Schoen?
You love this silly line of attack. And seem to only use it when you disagree with someone's else's opinion. You had no problem I see with any of the gushing grades on this thread.
I was even more critical about the Golladay contract two years ago and vividly remember a number of posters, probably you, saying you trust Judge more than anyone on BBI. That has aged well, hasn't it? The OP asked for opinions. Some of which may differ from yours. For the sake of this board, please come up with some new material...
Brown_Hornet : 3/20/2021 3:54 pm : link
... The combination of Dave Gettleman and Joe judge appears to be outstanding.
Haters gonna hate...
... but the facts are what they are.
BBI - ( New Window )
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...you are confidant that you are better equipped to evaluate NFL QBs than Daboll and Schoen?
You love this silly line of attack. And seem to only use it when you disagree with someone's else's opinion. You had no problem I see with any of the gushing grades on this thread.
I was even more critical about the Golladay contract two years ago and vividly remember a number of posters, probably you, saying you trust Judge more than anyone on BBI. That has aged well, hasn't it? The OP asked for opinions. Some of which may differ from yours. For the sake of this board, please come up with some new material...
I'm quite sure I will continue to have takes that don't age well... That's what a lack of information and emotion does.
But my issue with your post is simply your decision to refer to the quarterback as a middling talent.
I suppose you do believe that you're better equipped to make this call than those who actually made it.
To me, it's pretty straightforward. Schoen, Mara, and Daboll have declared that they think Jones is the solution to help this team win a Super Bowl. At least for the next two years. Otherwise, why re-sign him?
For a change, I hope there is a strong consensus at BBI on expectations. Jones was re-hired to get us into the playoffs and win a Lombardi.
As for a grade, I'd say a B for the brass because they should have funds to bring in more infantry. But since the WR market is so barren, finding WR solutions will likely have to come from the draft. Which is a riskier play.
For New Team Jones, I'll give them a C-. It looks like they were forced to settle for this deal. Otherwise, they would have gladly taken the NEFT, shopped for a bigger offer, and forced NYG to match.
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In comment 16058414 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...you are confidant that you are better equipped to evaluate NFL QBs than Daboll and Schoen?
You love this silly line of attack. And seem to only use it when you disagree with someone's else's opinion. You had no problem I see with any of the gushing grades on this thread.
I was even more critical about the Golladay contract two years ago and vividly remember a number of posters, probably you, saying you trust Judge more than anyone on BBI. That has aged well, hasn't it? The OP asked for opinions. Some of which may differ from yours. For the sake of this board, please come up with some new material...
I'm quite sure I will continue to have takes that don't age well... That's what a lack of information and emotion does.
But my issue with your post is simply your decision to refer to the quarterback as a middling talent.
I suppose you do believe that you're better equipped to make this call than those who actually made it.
These are opinions. My opinion is no more and no less valid than anyone else's opinion. I will be proven right sometimes. I will be proven wrong sometimes. If you don't like my opinion, that is fine. But suggesting that the Giants GM is always right and BBI is always wrong after the last decade of galactic mismanagement by this franchise is an opinion I definitely do not agree with.
Have a nice evening.
And you know what those incentives are? I haven't seen any reporting on them.
To me, it's pretty straightforward. Schoen, Mara, and Daboll have declared that they think Jones is the solution to help this team win a Super Bowl. At least for the next two years. Otherwise, why re-sign him?
For a change, I hope there is a strong consensus at BBI on expectations. Jones was re-hired to get us into the playoffs and win a Lombardi.
As for a grade, I'd say a B for the brass because they should have funds to bring in more infantry. But since the WR market is so barren, finding WR solutions will likely have to come from the draft. Which is a riskier play.
For New Team Jones, I'll give them a C-. It looks like they were forced to settle for this deal. Otherwise, they would have gladly taken the NEFT, shopped for a bigger offer, and forced NYG to match.
Why do you think Team Jones was forced to do this deal?
I think this is a better deal than he would have gotten in the free market
In the end we could have franchised him and then he is SOL
Yeah. The "so you think you know better than the GM " and "if you don't like what they do, pick another team to root for!" are the most basic fanboy reactions. Facebook group-esque posts, I always try to steer clear of them.
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...you are confidant that you are better equipped to evaluate NFL QBs than Daboll and Schoen?
You love this silly line of attack. And seem to only use it when you disagree with someone's else's opinion. You had no problem I see with any of the gushing grades on this thread.
I was even more critical about the Golladay contract two years ago and vividly remember a number of posters, probably you, saying you trust Judge more than anyone on BBI. That has aged well, hasn't it? The OP asked for opinions. Some of which may differ from yours. For the sake of this board, please come up with some new material...
The appeals to authority are out in full force. I honestly didn't think they could possibly be back this quickly after 10 years of being a bottom dweller and seeing those appeals blow up spectacularly so many times.
But many seem to love to run to the comforts of "in ____ we trust" even trying to rewrite DG into not a horrible GM after a single playoff season where he drafted some contributors with his slew of high draft picks. It is really unbelievable. The amount people are just expected to tow the company line for this team.
I give it a D - I think we are capping the ceiling on the team for the next few years with Daniel Jones as our QB as a team that might get to nine or ten wins and make the playoffs but will not be a serious contender. I simply don't think he can lead us to the top ten offense I think is necessary for serious contention. I hear everyone on the weapons - I just don't see it with Jones. I hope I'm wrong.
I also think most of the contracts for QBs above $30 million are terrible. The exceptions are for the truly elite or the teams that have good enough rosters to compete and have no choice but to keep the average/above-average player they have. I think the Giants miss the playoffs next year and we realize how far away the team is from serious contention.
I don't give it an F because: a) I wanted Jones back, just on the franchise tag; and b) There is an out after years 2 and 3. So it's not an insane commitment.
Exactly where I am
I don't really care what you do as an individual. I'm responding to the the attempts to invalidate the idea that people can have a different opinion on this contract which is BS. A few people here seem to have to be arguing for their right to have an opinion without it being completely invalidated by the idea that if you disagree with the Giants front office and the mob here you must be wrong. And if this turns out to look like a bad decision, I do not want it to get the cover of "well it was the only option they had, or it was a good deal and everyone thought so"
Just finished a long day of work actually, not really all that board and didn't have much time to be here today. Shocked to see the thread complaining about players questioning the deal. Calling those people dumb, playing the reverse racism card. Not super boring to try to inject some differing opinions into that but yeah, not going to spend anymore time on this for sure
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so if we question every move what happens next? You act like your reactions and critiques actually matter to what happens on game day. You are a guy with an opinion and you keep telling us that opinion over and over. And it doesn’t change anything.
I don't really care what you do as an individual. I'm responding to the the attempts to invalidate the idea that people can have a different opinion on this contract which is BS. A few people here seem to have to be arguing for their right to have an opinion without it being completely invalidated by the idea that if you disagree with the Giants front office and the mob here you must be wrong. And if this turns out to look like a bad decision, I do not want it to get the cover of "well it was the only option they had, or it was a good deal and everyone thought so"
I suppose if one didn't like DJ one would not like the contract.
I like DJ but am wary about how good he really is...and what his ceiling is
However you must admit that if we don't have him at QB then we would have a big drop off in overall team ability to compete....
Perhaps you prefer to.franchise him which is valid...but it locks us up in our ability to bring free agents
Also.this way both keeps Saquon around for 1 more year and gives us cap space to sign other important guys on the team..
You will.at least allow for that no??
But as a last thing, I think you are confusing something. I don't really care if I rock the boat if I am saying something that I feel is missing from the discussion. That is going to be upsetting for some people that want it to go in a certain way.
And I certainly was attacked a lot when I had issues with DG from day 1 and when I voiced my concerns about the Giants analytics and technology programs but I was definitely on the right side of history there and that really is all that matters to me. Even if I'm wrong, I'll feel good about it if I feel I was legitimately diversifying the discussion with a point I believe in.
You on the other hand mainly like to snipe at the opposition all while pretending you don't have a side. So like enjoy that, I bet you struggle with originality in all walks of life.
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In comment 16058737 UConn4523 said:
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so if we question every move what happens next? You act like your reactions and critiques actually matter to what happens on game day. You are a guy with an opinion and you keep telling us that opinion over and over. And it doesn’t change anything.
I don't really care what you do as an individual. I'm responding to the the attempts to invalidate the idea that people can have a different opinion on this contract which is BS. A few people here seem to have to be arguing for their right to have an opinion without it being completely invalidated by the idea that if you disagree with the Giants front office and the mob here you must be wrong. And if this turns out to look like a bad decision, I do not want it to get the cover of "well it was the only option they had, or it was a good deal and everyone thought so"
I suppose if one didn't like DJ one would not like the contract.
I like DJ but am wary about how good he really is...and what his ceiling is
However you must admit that if we don't have him at QB then we would have a big drop off in overall team ability to compete....
Perhaps you prefer to.franchise him which is valid...but it locks us up in our ability to bring free agents
Also.this way both keeps Saquon around for 1 more year and gives us cap space to sign other important guys on the team..
You will.at least allow for that no??
Yeah I get this, but it looks like we may cut KG before June 1st which the Franchise tag and cutting him after nets out to a pretty similar amount to this deal.
And personally, I feel that paying Jones big bucks is a bet that he will move forward as a passer. And to that end I wouldn't see a big tragedy in losing Saquon if we could come to a reasonable deal with him. The RB draft is very deep. And I believe in cohesive risk management strategies and not only if we are long Jones as a passer would I like to commit everything to that. I also think that the way we've set it up we need both Jones and Saquon to stay healthy to win and I don't really like the chances of that.
No man, I'm done too. But I've seen others call you out for this so let it stick. You tow the Giants company line through and through. All while feigning neutrality but you aren't fooling anyone that doesn't want to believe that your still heavily slanted "neutrality" is real neutrality.
I actually don't care about Jones one way or another. Stated many times I was good with the tag and would have been good with the tag. But when you have a bunch of people around here acting like it's a weird perspective to think Jones was overpaid, and there are threads to that affect. That tells me that no matter how much you think I'm overdoing a point. It is not being "done" enough.
Win win!
I have no desire to rate the DJ side, because that is irrelevant.
He's here, and he's happy. The rest is just typical BBI nonsense from people who need to find a way to say they were right.
Win win!
I have no desire to rate the DJ side, because that is irrelevant.
He's here, and he's happy. The rest is just typical BBI nonsense from people who need to find a way to say they were right.
My post specifically asked for the take from the Giants front office point of view..thanks for joining in
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In comment 16058414 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...you are confidant that you are better equipped to evaluate NFL QBs than Daboll and Schoen?
You love this silly line of attack. And seem to only use it when you disagree with someone's else's opinion. You had no problem I see with any of the gushing grades on this thread.
I was even more critical about the Golladay contract two years ago and vividly remember a number of posters, probably you, saying you trust Judge more than anyone on BBI. That has aged well, hasn't it? The OP asked for opinions. Some of which may differ from yours. For the sake of this board, please come up with some new material...
The appeals to authority are out in full force. I honestly didn't think they could possibly be back this quickly after 10 years of being a bottom dweller and seeing those appeals blow up spectacularly so many times.
But many seem to love to run to the comforts of "in ____ we trust" even trying to rewrite DG into not a horrible GM after a single playoff season where he drafted some contributors with his slew of high draft picks. It is really unbelievable. The amount people are just expected to tow the company line for this team.
Nosir, an appeal to expertise and to those with more information.
100% agree...we are all here to share our opinions,and we all have the same right to that opinion...it is only that
AN OPINION
To me one's opinion on this contract with DJ,should have nothing to how you feel about DJ as a player...but how you grade the deal from the Front Office's POV.
Schoen made it clear that DJ would be back next year...meaning either on the Franchise tag or under contract....so one should grade it based upon those guildelines....