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Some thoughts on the Giants D Line

YANKEE28 : 3/12/2023 10:09 am
On May 26, 2022, the Atlanta Falcons cut DE John Cominsky.

Waiver claims were put in by EIGHT teams: (Detroit Lions, Washington Commanders, Indianapolis Colts, Cleveland Browns, Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, Minnesota Vikings, and Cincinnati Bengals). He was awarded to Detroit because they had the highest claiming rights.

On November 12, 2022, the Los Angeles Chargers cut DT Jerry Tillery.

Waiver claims were put in by EIGHT teams: (Las Vegas Raiders, Detroit Lions, Carolina Panthers, Indianapolis Colts, San Francisco 49ers, New York Jets, New York Giants, and Kansas City Chiefs). He was awarded to Las Vegas because they had the highest claiming rights.

When was the last time we saw EIGHT different teams put in waiver claims for players?

What does this mean as it relates to the Giants? IMO, the Giants recognize the difficulty in finding quality linemen.

The Giants 3 man front played extremely well in the first half dozen games. But then, unheralded DE Nick Williams went down with a season ending pec injury. And his loss was very noticeable.

Let's hope the Giants start the offseason by re signing Nick Williams.

For whatever reason Cominsky (who played at small Charleston and was a 4th round pick) fell into the doghouse with Falcons DC Pees and former Giants DL coach Gary Emanuel-leading to his release. But Cominsky thrived with the Lions, eventually becoming a starter opposite Hutchinson and finished with 5 snaps and consistent QB pressure.

In this short time with the Raiders, Tillery also played well and impressed. And let's remember that one of the teams that put in an unsuccessful claim for Tillery was the Giants.

Perhaps the players will not be Cominsky (who probably fits a 4-3 D better) or Tillery, but expect the Giants to address the DL in the near future.

And if its not addressed during Free Agency, keep an eye on players like Iowa's Lukas Van Ness or Georgia Tech's Keion White- both 5 techniques with the size and strength to move inside when needed.

I am a Planet Theory guy, and the Giants have hopefully addressed the OT position for now and the future. But now its time to find that quality D Lineman to add to Lawrence and Williams and don't be surprised to see the Giants go DL in Round One.

Looking back at the Giants 2022 season on defense, we saw corners that were rarely in the wrong position. Yes, we had issues with some that were a step away from covering their receiver, but the coaching was excellent and our corners knew where they need to be. And a better pass rush will instantly improve those coverage gaps instantly.

Just one Giants fan's opinion of what we will see in the coming days and weeks. Buckle your seat belts. It all starts tomorrow at Noon.
add  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/12/2023 10:12 am : link
Schoen's comments a few weeks ago too.
Great thread Y28  
Jay on the Island : 3/12/2023 10:16 am : link
I agree that DT is a bigger need than many realize. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Giants land a DL with their 1st or 2nd round pick.

As you mentioned Nick Williams was a very pleasant surprise as was DJ Davidson but unfortunately they both suffered injuries which landed them on IR. It was a noticeable from them to Justin Ellis, Ryder Anderson, and Mondeaux.
Y28  
cosmicj : 3/12/2023 10:17 am : link
I’m with you. It was good to hear Schoen openly talk about the front 7 though I hope this isn’t all about Trumaine Edwards.
I think one thing to  
section125 : 3/12/2023 10:18 am : link
remember about Wink's defense is that he played a lot of 2-4-5 which just has to leave you vulnerable to the run. Basically 6 OL vs 2 DL.

Basically two DTs, 4 LBs(two of whom were ER) and 5 DBs, one masquerading as a small LB.

Maybe it was because of the available players they had, but a more traditional 3-4-4 would be better against the run.

Let's face it, Wink was really throwing crap against the wall to find a balance to slow down offenses.
RE: I think one thing to  
BillT : 3/12/2023 10:39 am : link
In comment 16060676 section125 said:
Quote:
remember about Wink's defense is that he played a lot of 2-4-5 which just has to leave you vulnerable to the run. Basically 6 OL vs 2 DL.

Basically two DTs, 4 LBs(two of whom were ER) and 5 DBs, one masquerading as a small LB.

Maybe it was because of the available players they had, but a more traditional 3-4-4 would be better against the run.

Let's face it, Wink was really throwing crap against the wall to find a balance to slow down offenses.

But how much of their reliance on the 2-4-5 was because Davidson and Williams got hurt. They played more 3 Dl L sets when they were healthy if I remember correctly.
This is what I wrote in another thread:  
Klaatu : 3/12/2023 10:40 am : link
Quote:
The Giants couldn't stop the run for love or money, and while an upgrade at ILB should be high on their list, defense begins at the point-of-attack, with the D-Line. They need a better backup for Lawrence. I don't want to see them have to "manage" his practice time again because he's playing over 80% of the defensive snaps, but I also don't want the defense to suffer too much when he's getting a rest.

I'd also like to see them get a better complement for Williams, a DE who can play alongside him and Lawrence. As an aside, I don't like the 2-4-5, and I hope Wink goes back to a more traditional base 3-4. Anyway, I like Jihad Ward for a variety of reasons, but he is absolutely not a guy you want starting eleven games next year as he did this year.


I was talking specifically about free agency, and followed that post up mentioning guys like Dalvin Tomlinson, Johnathan Hankins, Rasheem Green, and A'Shawn Robinson. Factoring in the need and the market, I feel that D-Line should be a top free agency priority. If Nick Williams and/or D.J. Davidson can make it back, fine, but I'd still hedge that bet with a UFA DT.

As for the draft, while they could go for a DL if one they like is available early on, my guess is they'll wait until Day 3 at the earliest. I'd love to see what Andre Patterson could do with Gervon Dexter. You can never have enough Dexters.
RE: RE: I think one thing to  
section125 : 3/12/2023 10:44 am : link
In comment 16060686 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 16060676 section125 said:


Quote:


remember about Wink's defense is that he played a lot of 2-4-5 which just has to leave you vulnerable to the run. Basically 6 OL vs 2 DL.

Basically two DTs, 4 LBs(two of whom were ER) and 5 DBs, one masquerading as a small LB.

Maybe it was because of the available players they had, but a more traditional 3-4-4 would be better against the run.

Let's face it, Wink was really throwing crap against the wall to find a balance to slow down offenses.


But how much of their reliance on the 2-4-5 was because Davidson and Williams got hurt. They played more 3 Dl L sets when they were healthy if I remember correctly.


Yep, it had a lot to do with what he had available - hence crap against the wall. But you cannot stop the run with 2 DL.
RE: I think one thing to  
Angel Eyes : 3/12/2023 10:54 am : link
In comment 16060676 section125 said:
Quote:
remember about Wink's defense is that he played a lot of 2-4-5 which just has to leave you vulnerable to the run. Basically 6 OL vs 2 DL.

Basically two DTs, 4 LBs(two of whom were ER) and 5 DBs, one masquerading as a small LB.

Maybe it was because of the available players they had, but a more traditional 3-4-4 would be better against the run.

Let's face it, Wink was really throwing crap against the wall to find a balance to slow down offenses.

I don't think this is just a Wink thing since Graham was doing something similar with Carter and Ojulari last year, playing two linemen with two outside linebackers.
Garafolo mentioned Cominsky...  
Ryan : 3/12/2023 11:16 am : link
....responding to a list someone (Pellisero?) put out about under the radar FAs a few days ago. His best game of the season came against us with a sack and 2 TFL.
Shy Tuttle  
BillT : 3/12/2023 11:25 am : link
From NO. Mentioned by another poster, An UDFA who has steadily improved and been a full time starter. Had 49 tackles, a couple of sacks and some PDs. 27 years old. 4 years in the league. Who knows but an under the radar type.
they need IDL depth - 2 guys playing 80%+ snaps is not sustainable  
Eric on Li : 3/12/2023 11:26 am : link
lawrence and williams basically held up the rest of the D last year and whenever either was on the sidelines they got run over. once nick williams and davidson went down at least.
RE: Shy Tuttle  
Klaatu : 3/12/2023 12:33 pm : link
In comment 16060729 BillT said:
Quote:
From NO. Mentioned by another poster, An UDFA who has steadily improved and been a full time starter. Had 49 tackles, a couple of sacks and some PDs. 27 years old. 4 years in the league. Who knows but an under the radar type.


You said it yourself, he's a starter, and has been for the past two years. Why would he come to a team to be a backup?
RE: I think one thing to  
ColHowPepper : 3/12/2023 12:33 pm : link
In comment 16060691 section125 said:
Quote:
.....Yep, it had a lot to do with what he had available - hence crap against the wall. But you cannot stop the run with 2 DL.

And you especially cannot stop the run with 2 DL when your two Edge guys are highly suspect against setting the edge against the run. Thibs, hopefully, will get there.
As to AO, I am not sure sure, never mind his availability is often in question. I've said it in other threads, but I would like to see what trade interest there might be in Ojulari and get picks back. And I know this thread is primarily about DL and defense vs the run, but DL has to work in tandem with edge and ILBs, as you see in Wink's schemes. Not sure if AO is long-term answer.
RE: RE: I think one thing to  
Klaatu : 3/12/2023 12:44 pm : link
In comment 16060768 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 16060691 section125 said:


Quote:


.....Yep, it had a lot to do with what he had available - hence crap against the wall. But you cannot stop the run with 2 DL.


And you especially cannot stop the run with 2 DL when your two Edge guys are highly suspect against setting the edge against the run. Thibs, hopefully, will get there.
As to AO, I am not sure sure, never mind his availability is often in question. I've said it in other threads, but I would like to see what trade interest there might be in Ojulari and get picks back. And I know this thread is primarily about DL and defense vs the run, but DL has to work in tandem with edge and ILBs, as you see in Wink's schemes. Not sure if AO is long-term answer.


Assuming he can stay healthy - a big assumption - AO is not a guy you can depend on to set the edge, never has been. However, he can still be effective as an ER/OLB if he's protected with some more beef up front, which is why I'd scrap the 2-4-5 and get another DE to play next to Lawrence, opposite Williams.
Jelly Ellis was a swing and a miss  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 3/12/2023 12:45 pm : link
as a veteran depth signing. Signed to play a few snaps per game to rest Dex and Leo, when Nick and DJ went down he got abused when forced to play increased snaps as our 3rd Dlineman.

He needs to go for sure. I’m not sure Mondeax showed enough to stick, but I’d give Ryder Anderson another year to develop.

Bring back Nick, add an inexpensive vet and a draft pick. We have our two studs, we need situational players that can hopefully stay healthy.
I think they played a lot of that 2 man DL  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/12/2023 12:49 pm : link
because they were not set up well to play a bigger front. I think they would want another Williams type (300 pounder) at DE. Then another OLB to play for Ojulari who might be best served as a pass rush specialist. Great run stopper at DE who can give you 5-8 sacks. Tough players to find imv.

When I looked at the depth chart of the Ravens when Wink joined they were bigger at the DE and one of the outside LB spots.

Lawrence is the DT/nose. Tbey have Davidson coming back but I expect someone either drafted or cheaper FA for depth.
IDL depth via draft  
Earl the goat : 3/12/2023 12:52 pm : link
PJ Mustipher
Cory Druden
Keondre Coburn
Cory Woolen
Should all be available in the later rounds
RE: I think they played a lot of that 2 man DL  
Klaatu : 3/12/2023 1:07 pm : link
In comment 16060781 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
because they were not set up well to play a bigger front. I think they would want another Williams type (300 pounder) at DE. Then another OLB to play for Ojulari who might be best served as a pass rush specialist. Great run stopper at DE who can give you 5-8 sacks. Tough players to find imv.

When I looked at the depth chart of the Ravens when Wink joined they were bigger at the DE and one of the outside LB spots.

Lawrence is the DT/nose. Tbey have Davidson coming back but I expect someone either drafted or cheaper FA for depth.


I mentioned two UFA DE's who fit that bill, but there are others, some more expensive than others. They mostly replaced Ojulari with Ward, which, to me was a failed experiment. Statistically, it was great for Ward, but not so much for the Giants. Ward just isn't athletic enough to play OLB, and asa DE, he's eminently upgradeable (sic). Ojulari was fine in 2021 as an OLB. Asking him to play DE is a bad move, in my view.
RE: Great thread Y28  
Payasdaddy : 3/12/2023 1:08 pm : link
In comment 16060674 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I agree that DT is a bigger need than many realize. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Giants land a DL with their 1st or 2nd round pick.

As you mentioned Nick Williams was a very pleasant surprise as was DJ Davidson but unfortunately they both suffered injuries which landed them on IR. It was a noticeable from them to Justin Ellis, Ryder Anderson, and Mondeaux.


I didn’t see a whole lot from t willams. Average at best. I want a bit more as my 3rd DT. It’s too obvious when Leo or dex not on field.
Another  
AcidTest : 3/12/2023 1:09 pm : link
great post Yankee28.

I totally agree that DL needs to be and likely will be a priority, if not in FA, then in the draft. We were very fortunate that Williams and Lawrence were able to play as much as they did, and there was a noticeable drop off in our run defense when they left the game. We also need more edge rushers. I would not be surprised if we took a DE in round one. Everyone is focused on WR, but our run defense last year was bad. Schoen said as much when he noted that our DL depth is "not good."

Think Gervon Dexter goes in round two. Ojomo is another DL to consider, maybe in the third, but I admit he's a bit of a tweener.
RE: they need IDL depth - 2 guys playing 80%+ snaps is not sustainable  
Payasdaddy : 3/12/2023 1:10 pm : link
In comment 16060730 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
lawrence and williams basically held up the rest of the D last year and whenever either was on the sidelines they got run over. once nick williams and davidson went down at least.


This
RE: RE: I think they played a lot of that 2 man DL  
Payasdaddy : 3/12/2023 1:12 pm : link
In comment 16060788 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 16060781 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


because they were not set up well to play a bigger front. I think they would want another Williams type (300 pounder) at DE. Then another OLB to play for Ojulari who might be best served as a pass rush specialist. Great run stopper at DE who can give you 5-8 sacks. Tough players to find imv.

When I looked at the depth chart of the Ravens when Wink joined they were bigger at the DE and one of the outside LB spots.

Lawrence is the DT/nose. Tbey have Davidson coming back but I expect someone either drafted or cheaper FA for depth.



I mentioned two UFA DE's who fit that bill, but there are others, some more expensive than others. They mostly replaced Ojulari with Ward, which, to me was a failed experiment. Statistically, it was great for Ward, but not so much for the Giants. Ward just isn't athletic enough to play OLB, and asa DE, he's eminently upgradeable (sic). Ojulari was fine in 2021 as an OLB. Asking him to play DE is a bad move, in my view.


I like ward as I guy who will try to set the tone early. Vet leadership. But only a 10-15 snap guy. If we can draft a guy who has better potential, definitely understand why
Ward had to play too much and his warts showed
RE: RE: Shy Tuttle  
BillT : 3/12/2023 1:15 pm : link
In comment 16060767 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 16060729 BillT said:


Quote:


From NO. Mentioned by another poster, An UDFA who has steadily improved and been a full time starter. Had 49 tackles, a couple of sacks and some PDs. 27 years old. 4 years in the league. Who knows but an under the radar type.



You said it yourself, he's a starter, and has been for the past two years. Why would he come to a team to be a backup?

He really wouldn’t be a backup. He’d be an equal part of a three man rotation at the least. He would also see reps in the 3 DL sets we saw in the early part of last season before the injuries decimated our DL. Plenty of reps to go around for the top 3 which he would be part of.
RE: RE: I think they played a lot of that 2 man DL  
Angel Eyes : 3/12/2023 5:10 pm : link
In comment 16060788 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 16060781 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


because they were not set up well to play a bigger front. I think they would want another Williams type (300 pounder) at DE. Then another OLB to play for Ojulari who might be best served as a pass rush specialist. Great run stopper at DE who can give you 5-8 sacks. Tough players to find imv.

When I looked at the depth chart of the Ravens when Wink joined they were bigger at the DE and one of the outside LB spots.

Lawrence is the DT/nose. Tbey have Davidson coming back but I expect someone either drafted or cheaper FA for depth.



I mentioned two UFA DE's who fit that bill, but there are others, some more expensive than others. They mostly replaced Ojulari with Ward, which, to me was a failed experiment. Statistically, it was great for Ward, but not so much for the Giants. Ward just isn't athletic enough to play OLB, and asa DE, he's eminently upgradeable (sic). Ojulari was fine in 2021 as an OLB. Asking him to play DE is a bad move, in my view.

And yet the Giants have him listed as such on their depth chart on their website. I don't like it any more than you do, but that's what it says.
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