WR is a HUGE problem for this team. Right now, the only healthy WR they have on the team is Hodgins. The others are all coming off season-ending injuries (Wandale Robinson, Sterling Shepherd, and Collin Johnson). Not crazy about bringing Slayton or James back, but they HAVE to do something. It's getting pretty desperate.
they passed on whatever trade offers they got for him at the deadline before some of his biggest games with wilson, before sutton became publicly disgruntled, before they hired sean payton and went into a full court press to win.
presumably chicago offered them the same 2nd rd pick they gave up for claypool (who is not nearly as good of a player) and denver said no.
if jeudy gets traded im pretty sure it's costing the trading team a 1st or a 2nd++ other picks.
These are valid points and it is quite likely they want to trade Sutton more than Jeudy at this point. Much higher contract and doesn't quite look as explosive as he did pre-injury.
That's something they should explore if there are no other real options to economically improve the WRs in a meaningful way this offseason. I think the UFA WRs not moving yesterday and Meyers coming in cheaper than expected opens up UFA a little my eyes. To at least set a floor with a veteran that can contribute and bring something unique to the team before the draft.
I'd offer the Toney pick and walk away from anything more than that. Not trading a #1 or #2 given how significant the roster needs are still for cheap, good talent going forward, given the mammoth cap hit contracts Giants will have with Lawrence, Thomas, Jones on books next couple seasons.
Jeudy will need/want a new contract soon himself. Broncos don't have a ton of leverage. I think they want to simply recoup draft assets more than they want to keep Jeudy.
I'd offer a conditional 2024 pick if Jeudy resigns. Say offer a 4th that becomes another 3rd if Jeudy plays 80 percent of games and resigns long term.
because I don't think you're getting him for a three and a five. I'm not sure I would do that anyway, but I think Denver will want at least a two. Part of my concern is that potential trade partners will increase the price because they know we need WRs.
WR is a HUGE problem for this team. Right now, the only healthy WR they have on the team is Hodgins. The others are all coming off season-ending injuries (Wandale Robinson, Sterling Shepherd, and Collin Johnson). Not crazy about bringing Slayton or James back, but they HAVE to do something. It's getting pretty desperate.
Maybe he wanted the Raiders and to play under McDaniel but man with how desperate NYG are at the position I would have considered Jakobi at those numbers too. That's a pretty cheap contract for a WR these days with maybe borderline #1 potential.
Because I am not trading 1 or 2 for him. I would rather draft my guy this year on a rookie deal, I would be slightly reach in the first round just so I can have a 5th year option, WRs are pricey
I'd move the Toney compensation for him which would essentially be a Toney/Jeudy swap.
If they're asking for more compensation than that, no. There seems to be good depth in the draft to where you can get WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round. I'd prefer to keep building through the draft.
The last half of the season with Denver, who was not exactly a passing juggernaut, he did well. I looked it up, the last 6 games he averaged about 90 yds, 6.5 catches, and had 3 TDS.
but I’m not sure why Denver would do that. He’s cheap this year, and it’s not like they’re deep at WR. He and Wilson seemed to get in a rhythm late last year, so moving Jeudy doesn’t make a lot of sense.
but I’m not sure why Denver would do that. He’s cheap this year, and it’s not like they’re deep at WR. He and Wilson seemed to get in a rhythm late last year, so moving Jeudy doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Well then, Schoen might have to PART with a 2, if he really covets him, assuming Denver is willing, which would appear is not the case?
The final thing is that there is no such thing as a post June 1 trade designation. The Packers can not trade Aaron Rodgers in March and declare it a post June 1 trade to break up the salary cap charges across the 2023 and 2024 league years. If Green Bay needed to split the cost (Rodgers costs more on the cap to trade than keep) they would have to find a team willing to delay processing any trade for Rodgers until June 2nd. If they trade him before that date there is no other option but to take all of the dead money in 2023.
-Taking above into account, Sutton if traded pre-June 1st is a 6.8M savings vs. 14M post June 1 . However he would be off their books as he has another 2 years on the contract at a fairly large number. Jeudy only saves 2.7M is they trade him now.
but I’m not sure why Denver would do that. He’s cheap this year, and it’s not like they’re deep at WR. He and Wilson seemed to get in a rhythm late last year, so moving Jeudy doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Well then, Schoen might have to PART with a 2, if he really covets him, assuming Denver is willing, which would appear is not the case?
It becomes less palatable with a 2, but I’d still consider it. He has the skill set to be a #1.
I hate trading #2's, those picks are gold most years.
I'm close to this same feeling. I love 2nd round picks but also think Jeudy could be a steal or blossom in the right system/setting. Not sure we can get him for less than the 2nd, so I am torn. I reserve the right to change my mind if and when.
I hate trading #2's, those picks are gold most years.
I'm close to this same feeling. I love 2nd round picks but also think Jeudy could be a steal or blossom in the right system/setting. Not sure we can get him for less than the 2nd, so I am torn. I reserve the right to change my mind if and when.
If he is the player he was the last 6-7 games with Wilson in that terrible Hackett Offense he very likely can be a true #1 in Daboll/Kafka's offense that stresses route running and guys that separate.
Is that both DG and. Reese really sucked ass drafting over all. So people are just fine w dumping a draft choice. But you need to draft well or you are t winning shit inthe NFL. For performance as well as cap reasons.
For over a decade getting anything after round round 1(and even the) was pile dream. Great teams get value all over the draft. You can't keep trading picks. It messes up the age and the cap situations over all.
hate to do it but credit Roseman for getting AJ Brown, a relatively unknown sneaky good find. I'd rather not trade for a known "name" as that comes with a premium.
hate to do it but credit Roseman for getting AJ Brown, a relatively unknown sneaky good find. I'd rather not trade for a known "name" as that comes with a premium.
Unless that “name,” like AJ Brown, can take us to that next level
the PROPER question to ask: " is there ANY receivers in the draft, who will be 2nd round selections, who projects to be better than Jeudy?".
If the answer is NO, than you offer the 2nd rounder. If yes, you try to grab that guy.
For trading a pick for a Jeudy is the mediocre WR draft class and awful UFA class.
This draft class is lacking in WRs like Jeudy too. Most of them are kind of limited. A healthy dose of smaller slot only guys or smaller slots with outside potential. Then you're straightline guys, big bodied possession types or just flat our raw dice rolls. You don't see any of these 6ft 200lb route separators with decent speed that the draft seemed to be churning out with regularity recently.
A 2 is a lot different than a 3 though. You can easily recoup a 3 with a trade down, comp pick or flipping a vet. 2s are much harder to come by and those guys are much more likely to contribute early.
hate to do it but credit Roseman for getting AJ Brown, a relatively unknown sneaky good find. I'd rather not trade for a known "name" as that comes with a premium.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
You believe Jeudy is a marginal talent?
I agree Jeudy is marginal. His catch percentage is worse than evan engram. That's an alarming stat. I'd hate that we sent a 2nd round pick for a one year rental on this guy.
I hate trading #2's, those picks are gold most years.
I'm close to this same feeling. I love 2nd round picks but also think Jeudy could be a steal or blossom in the right system/setting. Not sure we can get him for less than the 2nd, so I am torn. I reserve the right to change my mind if and when.
Make up your mind now, or get off this thread….:)
Fine...I am in! I think i'd do it for the 2nd.
Even if we only get one year of cost controlled service I think that's a big plus. You get a year (or even 2) before you have to commit big long term bucks. The only thing worse than trading a 2nd for a mistake is paying that mistake. At least we'd have good data to go on.
HE was a very high pick and hasn't exactly failed at the NFL level. I guess I would say if Schoen and Daboll love him, then he's worth the 2nd.
Denver would argue "Look at his last few games" and the Giants would argue "Look at his whole career" and Denver would say "Come on, you like him or we wouldn't be talking at all." And so on.
Given that the Giants are on track to have a lot of cap space in 2024, there's the option of a 2024 second-rounder instead of a 2023 second-rounder. That's considered the equivalent of a 2023 third-rounder (right?). And the Giants need their early picks this year, where next year they will be able to spend in free agency to make up for the loss of a second-rounder.
Weren't ppl on BBI using that for Jones and why he should be resigned? Why is ok to use for one player but not another? Does Jerry make the offense better, yes. You can even argue that the Denver QBs he has played with were/are worse than Jones and with Jones throwing to you, it would lead to a more productive season.
Can you find a WR is the 2nd or 3rd that will produce right away, maybe? But there is also the NFL learning curve to go through.
That being said, I'd trade a 2nd round pick for him and definitely would do a 3rd and 4th in 2024
This team is starving for WRs and NYG are now 4 years in on failing to get Jones anything of strong value at the position.
After starting off the 2022 season relatively slowly, Jeudy exploded in the final six games , totaling 37 receptions for 523 yards and three touchdowns. He finished his third year with 67 receptions for 972 yards and six TDs all of which led Denver's receiving corps.
In an offense that was severely stunted by system maybe even moreso than Garrett, Jeudy's finish to the season was a strong sign of just how good a talent he is.
He is 23 years old and you can get him for a cheap contract along with a 5th year option next year.
He absolutely is worth a 2. If NYG somehow gets him for less, that's a major coup. However you have to give up something to get something.
No doubt our 2nd round pick could net us a WR too but it's no sure bet and it also comes with a learning curve.
If we want to maximize the chances the passing game finally takes off next year an established highly talented vet WR is the best path to go.
Close the deal and get this done.
Very good post.
The hit rate for a second-rate pick is about 70%, which means you are getting a player who starts and contributes. It's subjective at that point what contribution actually means.
With Jeudy, you know you are getting a player who has already played well in the NFL, and he appears on the upswing. That's a 100%. Furthermore, he has assets we need on the outside - good speed, the ability to get vertical and YAC.
The "problem" is Jeudy is that tweener between WR1/WR2. Not a true WR1 - yet. So, if you want the guaranteed WR1, Jeudy still has more to prove. But if you think his trajectory is taking him to WR1 land, I think he's probably worth the stretch of a second-round pick.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
You believe Jeudy is a marginal talent?
I agree Jeudy is marginal. His catch percentage is worse than evan engram. That's an alarming stat. I'd hate that we sent a 2nd round pick for a one year rental on this guy.
Who were his QB’s? It’s hard to have a high catch % with Drew Lock throwing to you. Allstarjim and I had this discussion on another thread, catch % can be a misleading stat, as so much involves the guy throwing to you. What makes it valuable is comparing it to his WR teammates, and Jeudy was 2nd among Den WR’s, and the guy ahead of him had 1/3rd the targets.
Jeudy isn’t going to wow anyone with his speed, but he isn’t Laquon Treadwell out there, and he is an elite route runner.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
You believe Jeudy is a marginal talent?
I agree Jeudy is marginal. His catch percentage is worse than evan engram. That's an alarming stat. I'd hate that we sent a 2nd round pick for a one year rental on this guy.
Who were his QB’s? It’s hard to have a high catch % with Drew Lock throwing to you. Allstarjim and I had this discussion on another thread, catch % can be a misleading stat, as so much involves the guy throwing to you. What makes it valuable is comparing it to his WR teammates, and Jeudy was 2nd among Den WR’s, and the guy ahead of him had 1/3rd the targets.
Jeudy isn’t going to wow anyone with his speed, but he isn’t Laquon Treadwell out there, and he is an elite route runner.
Yep, saw that argument and now agree it’s a pretty bad stat to use in a vacuum. It’s still relevant, but do you think Jones can elevate him?
presumably chicago offered them the same 2nd rd pick they gave up for claypool (who is not nearly as good of a player) and denver said no.
if jeudy gets traded im pretty sure it's costing the trading team a 1st or a 2nd++ other picks.
These are valid points and it is quite likely they want to trade Sutton more than Jeudy at this point. Much higher contract and doesn't quite look as explosive as he did pre-injury.
I'd be 100% on board for a 3+ though.
Jeudy will need/want a new contract soon himself. Broncos don't have a ton of leverage. I think they want to simply recoup draft assets more than they want to keep Jeudy.
I'd offer a conditional 2024 pick if Jeudy resigns. Say offer a 4th that becomes another 3rd if Jeudy plays 80 percent of games and resigns long term.
Maybe he wanted the Raiders and to play under McDaniel but man with how desperate NYG are at the position I would have considered Jakobi at those numbers too. That's a pretty cheap contract for a WR these days with maybe borderline #1 potential.
But a 3rd and 5th is worth the flyer
If they're asking for more compensation than that, no. There seems to be good depth in the draft to where you can get WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round. I'd prefer to keep building through the draft.
Quit being cheap fuvks
Jeudy was a top 15 pick
Or a
2024 second
I think giants ultimately really need a deal like this.
I don’t see this passing game taking huge strides by just adding a rookie unless he explodes or we get lucky and he turns into a Jefferson
Personally I love the upside of Jeudy and he is very affordable for 2 seasons
2nd round pick would be tough to give up, choosing in the bottom of that round, I might be willing to part ways with that pick.
Well then, Schoen might have to PART with a 2, if he really covets him, assuming Denver is willing, which would appear is not the case?
-Taking above into account, Sutton if traded pre-June 1st is a 6.8M savings vs. 14M post June 1 . However he would be off their books as he has another 2 years on the contract at a fairly large number. Jeudy only saves 2.7M is they trade him now.
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but I’m not sure why Denver would do that. He’s cheap this year, and it’s not like they’re deep at WR. He and Wilson seemed to get in a rhythm late last year, so moving Jeudy doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Well then, Schoen might have to PART with a 2, if he really covets him, assuming Denver is willing, which would appear is not the case?
It becomes less palatable with a 2, but I’d still consider it. He has the skill set to be a #1.
I'm close to this same feeling. I love 2nd round picks but also think Jeudy could be a steal or blossom in the right system/setting. Not sure we can get him for less than the 2nd, so I am torn. I reserve the right to change my mind if and when.
Quote:
I hate trading #2's, those picks are gold most years.
I'm close to this same feeling. I love 2nd round picks but also think Jeudy could be a steal or blossom in the right system/setting. Not sure we can get him for less than the 2nd, so I am torn. I reserve the right to change my mind if and when.
Make up your mind now, or get off this thread….:)
If he is the player he was the last 6-7 games with Wilson in that terrible Hackett Offense he very likely can be a true #1 in Daboll/Kafka's offense that stresses route running and guys that separate.
For over a decade getting anything after round round 1(and even the) was pile dream. Great teams get value all over the draft. You can't keep trading picks. It messes up the age and the cap situations over all.
You have to give to get. It's not like it's pick 35.
We had arguable top 3, worst WR core in the league.
A 3 and a 5 would be great but I'd give up a 2. You just paid DJ, top 10 money, now give him weapons.
Rashee Rice
Cedric Tillman
Josh Downs
Not saying they are better than Jeudy but just for comp sake.
Rashee Rice
Cedric Tillman
Josh Downs
Not saying they are better than Jeudy but just for comp sake.
Tyler Scott
Michael Wilson
Unless that “name,” like AJ Brown, can take us to that next level
A 3 and 5 is a no brainer, run to make the deal. But I would give up a 2nd rounder if needed to make the deal.
I read the Patriots are hot on making that deal with Denver as well, so there's competition for his services.
If the answer is NO, than you offer the 2nd rounder. If yes, you try to grab that guy.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
This draft class is lacking in WRs like Jeudy too. Most of them are kind of limited. A healthy dose of smaller slot only guys or smaller slots with outside potential. Then you're straightline guys, big bodied possession types or just flat our raw dice rolls. You don't see any of these 6ft 200lb route separators with decent speed that the draft seemed to be churning out with regularity recently.
A 2 is a lot different than a 3 though. You can easily recoup a 3 with a trade down, comp pick or flipping a vet. 2s are much harder to come by and those guys are much more likely to contribute early.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
You believe Jeudy is a marginal talent?
AJ Brown was very well known.
Quote:
There will be plenty of options in the draft.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
You believe Jeudy is a marginal talent?
I agree Jeudy is marginal. His catch percentage is worse than evan engram. That's an alarming stat. I'd hate that we sent a 2nd round pick for a one year rental on this guy.
If Denver throws in a 4, will give them a #2
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In comment 16063020 JonC said:
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I hate trading #2's, those picks are gold most years.
I'm close to this same feeling. I love 2nd round picks but also think Jeudy could be a steal or blossom in the right system/setting. Not sure we can get him for less than the 2nd, so I am torn. I reserve the right to change my mind if and when.
Make up your mind now, or get off this thread….:)
Fine...I am in! I think i'd do it for the 2nd.
Even if we only get one year of cost controlled service I think that's a big plus. You get a year (or even 2) before you have to commit big long term bucks. The only thing worse than trading a 2nd for a mistake is paying that mistake. At least we'd have good data to go on.
HE was a very high pick and hasn't exactly failed at the NFL level. I guess I would say if Schoen and Daboll love him, then he's worth the 2nd.
Given that the Giants are on track to have a lot of cap space in 2024, there's the option of a 2024 second-rounder instead of a 2023 second-rounder. That's considered the equivalent of a 2023 third-rounder (right?). And the Giants need their early picks this year, where next year they will be able to spend in free agency to make up for the loss of a second-rounder.
Can you find a WR is the 2nd or 3rd that will produce right away, maybe? But there is also the NFL learning curve to go through.
That being said, I'd trade a 2nd round pick for him and definitely would do a 3rd and 4th in 2024
After starting off the 2022 season relatively slowly, Jeudy exploded in the final six games , totaling 37 receptions for 523 yards and three touchdowns. He finished his third year with 67 receptions for 972 yards and six TDs all of which led Denver's receiving corps.
In an offense that was severely stunted by system maybe even moreso than Garrett, Jeudy's finish to the season was a strong sign of just how good a talent he is.
He is 23 years old and you can get him for a cheap contract along with a 5th year option next year.
He absolutely is worth a 2. If NYG somehow gets him for less, that's a major coup. However you have to give up something to get something.
No doubt our 2nd round pick could net us a WR too but it's no sure bet and it also comes with a learning curve.
If we want to maximize the chances the passing game finally takes off next year an established highly talented vet WR is the best path to go.
Close the deal and get this done.
Very good post.
The hit rate for a second-rate pick is about 70%, which means you are getting a player who starts and contributes. It's subjective at that point what contribution actually means.
With Jeudy, you know you are getting a player who has already played well in the NFL, and he appears on the upswing. That's a 100%. Furthermore, he has assets we need on the outside - good speed, the ability to get vertical and YAC.
The "problem" is Jeudy is that tweener between WR1/WR2. Not a true WR1 - yet. So, if you want the guaranteed WR1, Jeudy still has more to prove. But if you think his trajectory is taking him to WR1 land, I think he's probably worth the stretch of a second-round pick.
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In comment 16063163 WillVAB said:
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There will be plenty of options in the draft.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
You believe Jeudy is a marginal talent?
I agree Jeudy is marginal. His catch percentage is worse than evan engram. That's an alarming stat. I'd hate that we sent a 2nd round pick for a one year rental on this guy.
Who were his QB’s? It’s hard to have a high catch % with Drew Lock throwing to you. Allstarjim and I had this discussion on another thread, catch % can be a misleading stat, as so much involves the guy throwing to you. What makes it valuable is comparing it to his WR teammates, and Jeudy was 2nd among Den WR’s, and the guy ahead of him had 1/3rd the targets.
Jeudy isn’t going to wow anyone with his speed, but he isn’t Laquon Treadwell out there, and he is an elite route runner.
Fact: he has a 68% catch ratio with mostly dog poop at QB. His depth of target is tops on the team. Courtland Sutton’s catch % is 10 pts lower.
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In comment 16063169 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16063163 WillVAB said:
Quote:
There will be plenty of options in the draft.
Amazing how so many people are ready to throw picks and money away on a marginal talent right after the Golloday fiasco.
You believe Jeudy is a marginal talent?
I agree Jeudy is marginal. His catch percentage is worse than evan engram. That's an alarming stat. I'd hate that we sent a 2nd round pick for a one year rental on this guy.
Who were his QB’s? It’s hard to have a high catch % with Drew Lock throwing to you. Allstarjim and I had this discussion on another thread, catch % can be a misleading stat, as so much involves the guy throwing to you. What makes it valuable is comparing it to his WR teammates, and Jeudy was 2nd among Den WR’s, and the guy ahead of him had 1/3rd the targets.
Jeudy isn’t going to wow anyone with his speed, but he isn’t Laquon Treadwell out there, and he is an elite route runner.
Yep, saw that argument and now agree it’s a pretty bad stat to use in a vacuum. It’s still relevant, but do you think Jones can elevate him?