Maybe that eye injury makes him somewhat gun shy (despite now wearing the shield) and the coaches noticed it. In any event, the Giants now have the ability to go two TEs with two competent TEs.
$11 mill per season??? Money is going away quickly.
(not to you directly, just this post reminded me of others) Remember when the Giants weren't going to be able to build a team because DJ stole all their money?
Pepp farm remembers...
So NYG signed a highly touted LB. TRaded for a highly touted and decently highly paid TE. A decent paid DT. And probably more to come.
a great talent with skills right there with Kelce.
As many have mentioned, there is, however, a serious issue with availability. Can't remember the last time Waller has come close to playing a full season.
..and also the makeup. Hasn't he had some personal issues?
HE's overcome a lot in his life. Not sure the details but he's been a good player and character guy in Oakland. No reason to think he won't be the same locker room leader here. The Raiders loved him.
He struggled with addiction, there’s a Hard Knocks on it. He’s been sober since 2017
That's where I saw it then.
I'm all for rooting for guys like this....just worried about the age amongst the obvious but the Giants probably looked at all the draftable TEs and thought for that third rounder, this was their best option.
Waller is year to year around 11M but that 11M , I don't think can be restructured into a significantly lower cap hit.
Could they not convert salary into bonus and spread it out over the life of the contract?
Yes, if you want the contract to guarantee money after this season, which it does not. He has 4 years left with a base of about $11 mill per, but only $8.25 mill is guaranteed and on this year's contract.
8.25 is guaranteed now but on friday the rest of his 2023 salary(2.75) becomes guaranteed. You can convert his salary to a bonus and drop his cap hit to 3-3.5 mil for this year and create 8.25 in dead money after this year.
It is still $11 mill this year and nothing after...I think I would wait until mid-season before tweaking his contract to see how he does before guaranteeing anything else.
32% slot
23% wide (24% in his 2 best 1k+ yard seasons)
44% inline
last year he actually played in the slot 62% of the time and inline just 17%.
my guess is with bellinger they can afford to move waller around the formation a lot like the chiefs do with kelce. and he has that kind of receiving ability to get himself open that probably no TE other than kelce has. Kelce is also plays slot (44%) and wide (30%) more than inline (26%).
so for 11m per year and a a very late 3rd, the nyg took a chance on an injury prone guy but one who has impact upside at a cheaper price than any other WRs out there.
also with him and hodgins they now have 2 bigger targets. which makes it that much easier to out and add smaller/faster/explosive targets (not unlike Wandale).
Maybe that eye injury makes him somewhat gun shy (despite now wearing the shield) and the coaches noticed it. In any event, the Giants now have the ability to go two TEs with two competent TEs.
This is going to be nice for SB as well.
RE: Waller just married Kelsey Plum from the Las Vegas Aces (WNBA)
if this was aged 27/28 Waller he wouldn’t net a 3rd - perspective. We just added the most explosive pass catcher since prime Beckham. There’s risk, but it’s low. Great deal.
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
No 6th round pick... it was a misinterpretation of a tweet from a report that we basically traded toney for waller and a 6th... they are not sending a 6 back to the giants in this trade.
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
No 6th round pick... it was a misinterpretation of a tweet from a report that we basically traded toney for waller and a 6th... they are not sending a 6 back to the giants in this trade.
Ok thanks.
RE: I want to dry hump the two tight end offense and always have
love this move. We now have TIGHT ENDS. 2 TE sets. Jones and Barkley are dual threats. Two TEs that can both catch and block as needed. Two WRs. Good luck stopping a high % passing offense that can rip off chunk plays on the ground with the best of them. It's 30 degrees and windy? No problem.
Waller was dinged up the last 2 seasons but still saw his YPC in 2022 reach a career high with 13.9. He's 30. This is a guy that caught 90 passes in 2019 and 107 in 2020. We got him for very little. Let's fucking go.
Waller - ( New Window )
OMG I love this!!! Joe and Dabs are cooking!!! Waller and Bellinger add a couple of more speed guys on outsdie -offense looking potent now!!
if this was aged 27/28 Waller he wouldn’t net a 3rd - perspective. We just added the most explosive pass catcher since prime Beckham. There’s risk, but it’s low. Great deal.
I don’t see any risk. They trade a 3rd which they got for Toney for a high upside TE. There is no guaranteed money after 2023. Brilliant move.
if this was aged 27/28 Waller he wouldn’t net a 3rd - perspective. We just added the most explosive pass catcher since prime Beckham. There’s risk, but it’s low. Great deal.
And I've got a used Mercedes to sell you. (Not Lewis).
RE: remember waller isn't just a TE - he plays slot and wide
32% slot
23% wide (24% in his 2 best 1k+ yard seasons)
44% inline
last year he actually played in the slot 62% of the time and inline just 17%.
my guess is with bellinger they can afford to move waller around the formation a lot like the chiefs do with kelce. and he has that kind of receiving ability to get himself open that probably no TE other than kelce has. Kelce is also plays slot (44%) and wide (30%) more than inline (26%).
so for 11m per year and a a very late 3rd, the nyg took a chance on an injury prone guy but one who has impact upside at a cheaper price than any other WRs out there.
also with him and hodgins they now have 2 bigger targets. which makes it that much easier to out and add smaller/faster/explosive targets (not unlike Wandale).
Good info there.
Low risk moves on shepard and waller with exceptional upside. Nothing really lost if these guys can't get healthy, and there's no one in the WR or TE market that can do what they do as well without a significant trade.
This offense is gonna be so much better next season.
if this was aged 27/28 Waller he wouldn’t net a 3rd - perspective. We just added the most explosive pass catcher since prime Beckham. There’s risk, but it’s low. Great deal.
I don’t see any risk. They trade a 3rd which they got for Toney for a high upside TE. There is no guaranteed money after 2023. Brilliant move.
Agreed, no financial risk. Only in-season injury risk. But we’ve been dealing with that for ages including 22 year old rookies so it is what it is at this point.
And don't forget, Hodgins (and James) are coming back, too. Just need Evan Neal to show improvement. I'm ready to play Week 1 tomorrow!
Not without major improvement from Neal. Remember we also lost Gates and he hasn’t been replaced (yet) so net/net you can say at this stage our line as is is worse.
if this was aged 27/28 Waller he wouldn’t net a 3rd - perspective. We just added the most explosive pass catcher since prime Beckham. There’s risk, but it’s low. Great deal.
I don’t see any risk. They trade a 3rd which they got for Toney for a high upside TE. There is no guaranteed money after 2023. Brilliant move.
Agreed, no financial risk. Only in-season injury risk. But we’ve been dealing with that for ages including 22 year old rookies so it is what it is at this point.
Yeah, it’s like we get or draft someone, they tweak whatever at OTAs or Camp and they’re “day to day” and suddenly it’s game 4 or 5 before they make their initial appearance. Uncanny.
32% slot
23% wide (24% in his 2 best 1k+ yard seasons)
44% inline
last year he actually played in the slot 62% of the time and inline just 17%.
my guess is with bellinger they can afford to move waller around the formation a lot like the chiefs do with kelce. and he has that kind of receiving ability to get himself open that probably no TE other than kelce has. Kelce is also plays slot (44%) and wide (30%) more than inline (26%).
so for 11m per year and a a very late 3rd, the nyg took a chance on an injury prone guy but one who has impact upside at a cheaper price than any other WRs out there.
also with him and hodgins they now have 2 bigger targets. which makes it that much easier to out and add smaller/faster/explosive targets (not unlike Wandale).
This is exactly the point. He is a wide receiver with an elite talent ceiling who can play in line tight end. But he is paid like an above average tight end, not an elite wide receiver. Exactly the kind of economic calculus needed for this team to progress in 2023.
You can see the influence Kafka and the Reid system is having on team construction. There was a good discussion during the playoffs on how KC uses Kelce.
If you have a TE with legitimate vertical ability, you can start in 12 personnel, and then based on coverage, effectively move to 11. KC does this a ton with Kelce who took 30% of his snap from the slot. He acts and runs like a receiver.
Waller took 25% of his snaps from the slot last year, and I'd expect this to be closer to 30% this year.
I don't think this impacts Bellinger much. I think the Giants just run a bunch of 12 personnel.
I wanted D Washington in the draft for this reason. 12 Personnel is key to getting some easy playcalling. Washington MOVES people in the run game. LT body that runs 4.6 and is 6'7"
I've thought the most likely outcome was the Giants invest at TE either in first wave UFA or premium draft pick exactly for that reason.
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
·
24m
"They are not done yet." - @diannaESPN on #Giants adding more skill players (WRs).
Do we have cap space?
uh yes?
KG will free up over 6 mil. You still have a leo and adoree extension (both can and should happen). You have a barkely LTD and a Dex deal. The giants have plenty of money and can free more. money really isnt an issue here and if youre adding someone like jeudy, he is VERY affordable.
Especially with how TE salaries are valued vs WR salaries these days, having a top-notch TE can be a huge advantage. See the Chiefs, 49ers, Eagles, Bills, etc. We've finally got an individual talent who at least has the potential to be part of that conversation.
It's more of an homage, really
I prefer 11 over 10 as a base-ish personnel.
(not to you directly, just this post reminded me of others) Remember when the Giants weren't going to be able to build a team because DJ stole all their money?
Pepp farm remembers...
So NYG signed a highly touted LB. TRaded for a highly touted and decently highly paid TE. A decent paid DT. And probably more to come.
Apologies accepted. TIA.
As many have mentioned, there is, however, a serious issue with availability. Can't remember the last time Waller has come close to playing a full season.
Quote:
In comment 16063700 BillKo said:
Quote:
..and also the makeup. Hasn't he had some personal issues?
HE's overcome a lot in his life. Not sure the details but he's been a good player and character guy in Oakland. No reason to think he won't be the same locker room leader here. The Raiders loved him.
He struggled with addiction, there’s a Hard Knocks on it. He’s been sober since 2017
That's where I saw it then.
I'm all for rooting for guys like this....just worried about the age amongst the obvious but the Giants probably looked at all the draftable TEs and thought for that third rounder, this was their best option.
Quote:
In comment 16063626 halfback20 said:
Quote:
In comment 16063619 CornerStone246+17 said:
Quote:
a player still on his rookie contract.
Waller is year to year around 11M but that 11M , I don't think can be restructured into a significantly lower cap hit.
Could they not convert salary into bonus and spread it out over the life of the contract?
Yes, if you want the contract to guarantee money after this season, which it does not. He has 4 years left with a base of about $11 mill per, but only $8.25 mill is guaranteed and on this year's contract.
8.25 is guaranteed now but on friday the rest of his 2023 salary(2.75) becomes guaranteed. You can convert his salary to a bonus and drop his cap hit to 3-3.5 mil for this year and create 8.25 in dead money after this year.
It is still $11 mill this year and nothing after...I think I would wait until mid-season before tweaking his contract to see how he does before guaranteeing anything else.
32% slot
23% wide (24% in his 2 best 1k+ yard seasons)
44% inline
last year he actually played in the slot 62% of the time and inline just 17%.
my guess is with bellinger they can afford to move waller around the formation a lot like the chiefs do with kelce. and he has that kind of receiving ability to get himself open that probably no TE other than kelce has. Kelce is also plays slot (44%) and wide (30%) more than inline (26%).
so for 11m per year and a a very late 3rd, the nyg took a chance on an injury prone guy but one who has impact upside at a cheaper price than any other WRs out there.
also with him and hodgins they now have 2 bigger targets. which makes it that much easier to out and add smaller/faster/explosive targets (not unlike Wandale).
This is going to be nice for SB as well.
At least the WNBA and NFL seasons don't overlap much.
Kelsey could just ask to play for the Liberty LOL…if you’ve seen her you know Waller is winning in the game of life as well as football.
Great trade by Schoen but only concern is Waller’s injury history
At least the problem last year was just a hammy......
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
·
24m
"They are not done yet." - @diannaESPN on #Giants adding more skill players (WRs).
That's awesome!
link - ( New Window )
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
·
24m
"They are not done yet." - @diannaESPN on #Giants adding more skill players (WRs).
Time to bring Odell home...
Link - ( New Window )
Indeed
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
·
24m
"They are not done yet." - @diannaESPN on #Giants adding more skill players (WRs).
Do we have cap space?
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
No 6th round pick... it was a misinterpretation of a tweet from a report that we basically traded toney for waller and a 6th... they are not sending a 6 back to the giants in this trade.
Quote:
Can someone confirm the deal is:
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
No 6th round pick... it was a misinterpretation of a tweet from a report that we basically traded toney for waller and a 6th... they are not sending a 6 back to the giants in this trade.
Ok thanks.
Waller was dinged up the last 2 seasons but still saw his YPC in 2022 reach a career high with 13.9. He's 30. This is a guy that caught 90 passes in 2019 and 107 in 2020. We got him for very little. Let's fucking go.
Waller - ( New Window )
OMG I love this!!! Joe and Dabs are cooking!!! Waller and Bellinger add a couple of more speed guys on outsdie -offense looking potent now!!
I don’t see any risk. They trade a 3rd which they got for Toney for a high upside TE. There is no guaranteed money after 2023. Brilliant move.
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
What Stapleton was saying was that IN EFFECT we traded Toney for Waller a d the 6th we got from KC
And I've got a used Mercedes to sell you. (Not Lewis).
32% slot
23% wide (24% in his 2 best 1k+ yard seasons)
44% inline
last year he actually played in the slot 62% of the time and inline just 17%.
my guess is with bellinger they can afford to move waller around the formation a lot like the chiefs do with kelce. and he has that kind of receiving ability to get himself open that probably no TE other than kelce has. Kelce is also plays slot (44%) and wide (30%) more than inline (26%).
so for 11m per year and a a very late 3rd, the nyg took a chance on an injury prone guy but one who has impact upside at a cheaper price than any other WRs out there.
also with him and hodgins they now have 2 bigger targets. which makes it that much easier to out and add smaller/faster/explosive targets (not unlike Wandale).
Good info there.
Low risk moves on shepard and waller with exceptional upside. Nothing really lost if these guys can't get healthy, and there's no one in the WR or TE market that can do what they do as well without a significant trade.
Quote:
Can someone confirm the deal is:
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
What Stapleton was saying was that IN EFFECT we traded Toney for Waller a d the 6th we got from KC
Gotcha. OK makes sense. Thanks
James signed?
Quote:
if this was aged 27/28 Waller he wouldn’t net a 3rd - perspective. We just added the most explosive pass catcher since prime Beckham. There’s risk, but it’s low. Great deal.
I don’t see any risk. They trade a 3rd which they got for Toney for a high upside TE. There is no guaranteed money after 2023. Brilliant move.
Agreed, no financial risk. Only in-season injury risk. But we’ve been dealing with that for ages including 22 year old rookies so it is what it is at this point.
Not without major improvement from Neal. Remember we also lost Gates and he hasn’t been replaced (yet) so net/net you can say at this stage our line as is is worse.
Quote:
In comment 16063777 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
if this was aged 27/28 Waller he wouldn’t net a 3rd - perspective. We just added the most explosive pass catcher since prime Beckham. There’s risk, but it’s low. Great deal.
I don’t see any risk. They trade a 3rd which they got for Toney for a high upside TE. There is no guaranteed money after 2023. Brilliant move.
Agreed, no financial risk. Only in-season injury risk. But we’ve been dealing with that for ages including 22 year old rookies so it is what it is at this point.
Yeah, it’s like we get or draft someone, they tweak whatever at OTAs or Camp and they’re “day to day” and suddenly it’s game 4 or 5 before they make their initial appearance. Uncanny.
Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.
This good enough?
Trade - ( New Window )
32% slot
23% wide (24% in his 2 best 1k+ yard seasons)
44% inline
last year he actually played in the slot 62% of the time and inline just 17%.
my guess is with bellinger they can afford to move waller around the formation a lot like the chiefs do with kelce. and he has that kind of receiving ability to get himself open that probably no TE other than kelce has. Kelce is also plays slot (44%) and wide (30%) more than inline (26%).
so for 11m per year and a a very late 3rd, the nyg took a chance on an injury prone guy but one who has impact upside at a cheaper price than any other WRs out there.
also with him and hodgins they now have 2 bigger targets. which makes it that much easier to out and add smaller/faster/explosive targets (not unlike Wandale).
This is exactly the point. He is a wide receiver with an elite talent ceiling who can play in line tight end. But he is paid like an above average tight end, not an elite wide receiver. Exactly the kind of economic calculus needed for this team to progress in 2023.
Now we should bring in a vet WR and hopefully draft a WR1
Fix the IOL and im really liking our offense going into the season!
Quote:
You can see the influence Kafka and the Reid system is having on team construction. There was a good discussion during the playoffs on how KC uses Kelce.
If you have a TE with legitimate vertical ability, you can start in 12 personnel, and then based on coverage, effectively move to 11. KC does this a ton with Kelce who took 30% of his snap from the slot. He acts and runs like a receiver.
Waller took 25% of his snaps from the slot last year, and I'd expect this to be closer to 30% this year.
I don't think this impacts Bellinger much. I think the Giants just run a bunch of 12 personnel.
I wanted D Washington in the draft for this reason. 12 Personnel is key to getting some easy playcalling. Washington MOVES people in the run game. LT body that runs 4.6 and is 6'7"
I've thought the most likely outcome was the Giants invest at TE either in first wave UFA or premium draft pick exactly for that reason.
I'm excited by this move.
Well if there's one organization whose medical staff can help reverse that trend, it's not us.
Quote:
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
·
24m
"They are not done yet." - @diannaESPN on #Giants adding more skill players (WRs).
Do we have cap space?
uh yes?
KG will free up over 6 mil. You still have a leo and adoree extension (both can and should happen). You have a barkely LTD and a Dex deal. The giants have plenty of money and can free more. money really isnt an issue here and if youre adding someone like jeudy, he is VERY affordable.