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NYG trade for Darren Waller

Big Rick in FL : 3/14/2023 2:26 pm
Per Twitter
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RE: Please please please  
Big Blue '56 : 3/14/2023 3:55 pm : link
In comment 16063820 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Stay healthy!


With us, that’s a big ask..😂
This deal is less than.......  
morrison40 : 3/14/2023 3:57 pm : link
What Beckham is rumored to want; I'll take it!
RE: RE: Good trade. Some things to be concerned over:  
GiantGrit : 3/14/2023 3:58 pm : link
In comment 16063816 santacruzom said:
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In comment 16063529 The_Boss said:


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He’s 30. Hasn’t played a full season since 2020.



Well if there's one organization whose medical staff can help reverse that trend, it's not us.


LOL
RE: RE: Bellinger was a tough guy in college (SDS)  
GeofromNJ : 3/14/2023 4:03 pm : link
In comment 16063742 MotownGIANTS said:
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In comment 16063720 GeofromNJ said:


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Maybe that eye injury makes him somewhat gun shy (despite now wearing the shield) and the coaches noticed it. In any event, the Giants now have the ability to go two TEs with two competent TEs.



This is going to be nice for SB as well.

True that.
RE: RE: I'm seeing mixed things  
SJGiant : 3/14/2023 4:07 pm : link
In comment 16063810 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 16063775 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Can someone confirm the deal is:

Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.



This good enough? Trade - ( New Window )


This article says there is an opt out clause after this year. Does anyone know is it the teams option or the players option for opt out? I assume it’s the players option.
RE: RE: RE: I'm seeing mixed things  
Del Shofner : 3/14/2023 4:16 pm : link
In comment 16063863 SJGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 16063810 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 16063775 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Can someone confirm the deal is:

Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.



This good enough? Trade - ( New Window )



This article says there is an opt out clause after this year. Does anyone know is it the teams option or the players option for opt out? I assume it’s the players option.


Good question. The article is unclear. I also assume it's the player's option but I did a little research and didn't see an answer. Of course if he opts out, at his age, he may not do as well as the contract.
Waller  
stretch234 : 3/14/2023 4:16 pm : link
He is a very good player. He is big, fast TE that will cause matchup problems. Bellinger and Barkley will benefit from this in the passing game

The Giants are better team on offense with Waller after yesterday getting better on defense

He has missed a lot of games but it isn’t like the offense  
Ivan15 : 3/14/2023 4:21 pm : link
Won’t function if he is out. I recall Daboll saying that Bills in 2021 played without a TE during the latter part of the season.

Aggressive moves by Schoen.
RE: RE: I'm seeing mixed things  
FranknWeezer : 3/14/2023 4:22 pm : link
In comment 16063810 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 16063775 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Can someone confirm the deal is:

Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.



This good enough? Trade - ( New Window )


So apparently just the player for a third, and no sixth back to us.
RE: RE: Waller just married Kelsey Plum from the Las Vegas Aces (WNBA)  
Spider43 : 3/14/2023 4:23 pm : link
In comment 16063748 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 16063576 Fan_in_Philly2 said:


Quote:


Hope they are ok with a long-distance relationship.

At least the WNBA and NFL seasons don't overlap much.



Kelsey could just ask to play for the Liberty LOL…if you’ve seen her you know Waller is winning in the game of life as well as football.

Great trade by Schoen but only concern is Waller’s injury history


Ionescu for Plum?!

Chiming in with the others, I hope he's healthy.
RE: RE: RE: I'm seeing mixed things  
AcidTest : 3/14/2023 4:24 pm : link
In comment 16063885 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 16063810 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 16063775 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Can someone confirm the deal is:

Waller and the Raiders' 6th rd pick for the Giants 100th overall pick.



This good enough? Trade - ( New Window )



So apparently just the player for a third, and no sixth back to us.


Correct.
the sixth is the other pick the Giants got from KC with the third  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/14/2023 4:30 pm : link
- so saying the Giants traded Toney for Waller and a 6th - is the sixth the Giants got for Toney originally
RE: RE: Giants might not be done yet:  
blueblood : 3/14/2023 4:30 pm : link
In comment 16063778 AG5686 said:
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In comment 16063757 Dave in Hoboken said:


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Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
·
24m
"They are not done yet." - @diannaESPN on #Giants adding more skill players (WRs).


Do we have cap space?


If the Saints got cap space we sure as hell can have space. League opens on Wednesday.. if there were restructures or pay cuts you know then.
RE: RE: RE: Giants might not be done yet:  
BeggarsBanquet : 3/14/2023 4:31 pm : link
In comment 16063901 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 16063778 AG5686 said:


Quote:


In comment 16063757 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:



Giants Daily
@NYGDaily
·
24m
"They are not done yet." - @diannaESPN on #Giants adding more skill players (WRs).


Do we have cap space?



If the Saints got cap space we sure as hell can have space. League opens on Wednesday.. if there were restructures or pay cuts you know then.


Folks continue to not understand the cap. If you want a player there is always a way to make it work.
I watch a lot of Raiders games  
Vanzetti : 3/14/2023 4:31 pm : link
And Waller was unstoppable in 2020, especially the latter part of the season.

You could not cover him.

Slowed by injuries the last two years but I still think this is a great deal. Waller plays fast and he is a big, strong dude. Nobody wants to tackle him.

I think we are going to see some Eagle-like TE screens with Mr Waller. I think Daboll and Joe S saw Eagles run over the Giants CBs and DBs and are looking to do the same.
RE: He doesn't have the same mileage  
k2tampa : 3/14/2023 4:39 pm : link
In comment 16063585 AcesUp said:
Quote:
As most 30 year old NFL players. Injuries are a risk/concern but no transaction we could make would be 100% clean.


He doesn't have the same mileage? Injuries add up to more mileage than playing. Waller has had a patella tendon sprain, a concussion (in 2015), 3 hamstring injuries including two last year (coincidentally traded for the Toney draft pick), a sprained shoulder, fractured thumb, 2 knee strains, and 2 ankle injuries.

Not saying he is Waller, but this also means the end for Cager, who is 6-5 220, versus Waller's 6-6 225. Neither is a good blocker. Both are good receivers (Cager had 18 catches in 6 games, 3 starts). And Cager is 5 years younger, has no injury concerns, and is much cheaper. His 40 times was the upper 4.5s, while Waller's was up 4.4s. Was hoping he could develop. But he's likely gone now.
Like the move  
giantstock : 3/14/2023 4:44 pm : link
It matches what the team is trying to do by re-signing Jones and Barkley. If you are going to go for it- then go for it. And you go for it not by getting a team's "3rd WR" like bozo DG did getting Philly's WR.

If he is healthy this is a big impact.
RE: I watch a lot of Raiders games  
BeggarsBanquet : 3/14/2023 4:44 pm : link
In comment 16063905 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
And Waller was unstoppable in 2020, especially the latter part of the season.

You could not cover him.

Slowed by injuries the last two years but I still think this is a great deal. Waller plays fast and he is a big, strong dude. Nobody wants to tackle him.

I think we are going to see some Eagle-like TE screens with Mr Waller. I think Daboll and Joe S saw Eagles run over the Giants CBs and DBs and are looking to do the same.


He was unstoppable for sure. But we're getting the 2023 Darren Waller, not the 2020 version.

Let's put it this way, his fantasy stock plummeted this year. So, while there is upside, we should temper the enthusiasm.
RE: Undoubtedly...  
speedywheels : 3/14/2023 4:45 pm : link
In comment 16063733 bw in dc said:
Quote:
a great talent with skills right there with Kelce.

As many have mentioned, there is, however, a serious issue with availability. Can't remember the last time Waller has come close to playing a full season.


Google can be your friend; last full season was 2020, when he caught 107 passes. Caught 90 the year before...

As others have already said - this really opens things up on the offense; he can line up all over the field, giving the offense a much needed weapon...
RE: RE: 9 GP in 2022  
k2tampa : 3/14/2023 4:45 pm : link
In comment 16063618 Big Blue Blogger said:
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ColHowPepper said:

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So he was sidelined by significant injury?

6' 6" 228: he's long, can he block and control the edge? Curious minds....


Not sure where you got 228. He's up around 260.

The injuries were more lingering than "significant": hamstring and knee in 2022, after back and knee in 2021. Maybe he's wearing down on the wrong side of 30; but he hardly played at all before he blew up at age 27. So there isn't as much wear on his body as you might expect for a TE approaching his 31st birthday.


He is listed at 238 on NFL.com. The Raiders site lists him at 255. So who knows. Injuries wear on the body much more than playing.
RE: RE: He doesn't have the same mileage  
Koffman : 3/14/2023 4:46 pm : link
In comment 16063924 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16063585 AcesUp said:


Quote:


As most 30 year old NFL players. Injuries are a risk/concern but no transaction we could make would be 100% clean.



He doesn't have the same mileage? Injuries add up to more mileage than playing. Waller has had a patella tendon sprain, a concussion (in 2015), 3 hamstring injuries including two last year (coincidentally traded for the Toney draft pick), a sprained shoulder, fractured thumb, 2 knee strains, and 2 ankle injuries.

Not saying he is Waller, but this also means the end for Cager, who is 6-5 220, versus Waller's 6-6 225. Neither is a good blocker. Both are good receivers (Cager had 18 catches in 6 games, 3 starts). And Cager is 5 years younger, has no injury concerns, and is much cheaper. His 40 times was the upper 4.5s, while Waller's was up 4.4s. Was hoping he could develop. But he's likely gone now.


Don't we also have Nick Varnett on the roster at 6'5 257??
RE: RE: He doesn't have the same mileage  
speedywheels : 3/14/2023 4:48 pm : link
In comment 16063924 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16063585 AcesUp said:


Quote:


As most 30 year old NFL players. Injuries are a risk/concern but no transaction we could make would be 100% clean.



He doesn't have the same mileage? Injuries add up to more mileage than playing. Waller has had a patella tendon sprain, a concussion (in 2015), 3 hamstring injuries including two last year (coincidentally traded for the Toney draft pick), a sprained shoulder, fractured thumb, 2 knee strains, and 2 ankle injuries.

Not saying he is Waller, but this also means the end for Cager, who is 6-5 220, versus Waller's 6-6 225. Neither is a good blocker. Both are good receivers (Cager had 18 catches in 6 games, 3 starts). And Cager is 5 years younger, has no injury concerns, and is much cheaper. His 40 times was the upper 4.5s, while Waller's was up 4.4s. Was hoping he could develop. But he's likely gone now.


I doubt this means the end of Cager. Lots of teams carry 3 TE. Cager will still have plenty of opportunities. Especially if Waller continues to show durability issues
Waller's 6'6 and got some size  
JonC : 3/14/2023 4:49 pm : link
255 is probably close.
I  
AcidTest : 3/14/2023 4:51 pm : link
don't think this is necessarily the end of Cager. We have no guaranteed money owed to Waller after this year. If Cager blossoms and Waller can't stay healthy, then we can resign the former and cut the latter. And if that happens, then all we did was burn a very late third round pick to see if Waller could recapture his 2020 form. That is a much better option than trading a one or two for Jeudy, Sutton, Aiyuk, etc.
RE: RE: He doesn't have the same mileage  
AcesUp : 3/14/2023 4:52 pm : link
In comment 16063924 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16063585 AcesUp said:


Quote:


As most 30 year old NFL players. Injuries are a risk/concern but no transaction we could make would be 100% clean.



He doesn't have the same mileage? Injuries add up to more mileage than playing. Waller has had a patella tendon sprain, a concussion (in 2015), 3 hamstring injuries including two last year (coincidentally traded for the Toney draft pick), a sprained shoulder, fractured thumb, 2 knee strains, and 2 ankle injuries.


I was alluding to the fact that he was a WR and buried on practice squads until 2019. Injuries are a risk/concern, which is why it only cost us the 100th pick when they were asking for a 2 from the Packers at the last deadline.

I don't think it means the end of Cager, they're probably carrying 4 TEs if they plan on featuring multiple TE looks. He'll have to compete for sure.
RE: RE: RE: He doesn't have the same mileage  
k2tampa : 3/14/2023 4:53 pm : link
In comment 16063936 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 16063924 k2tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 16063585 AcesUp said:


Quote:


As most 30 year old NFL players. Injuries are a risk/concern but no transaction we could make would be 100% clean.



He doesn't have the same mileage? Injuries add up to more mileage than playing. Waller has had a patella tendon sprain, a concussion (in 2015), 3 hamstring injuries including two last year (coincidentally traded for the Toney draft pick), a sprained shoulder, fractured thumb, 2 knee strains, and 2 ankle injuries.

Not saying he is Waller, but this also means the end for Cager, who is 6-5 220, versus Waller's 6-6 225. Neither is a good blocker. Both are good receivers (Cager had 18 catches in 6 games, 3 starts). And Cager is 5 years younger, has no injury concerns, and is much cheaper. His 40 times was the upper 4.5s, while Waller's was up 4.4s. Was hoping he could develop. But he's likely gone now.



I doubt this means the end of Cager. Lots of teams carry 3 TE. Cager will still have plenty of opportunities. Especially if Waller continues to show durability issues


You would have to think that the third tight end would be someone with top blocking skills.
Looks like a good move right now  
Boatie Warrant : 3/14/2023 4:53 pm : link
Could look like a great move come years end....or a bad one.

Will be interesting to see how he and Jones work together
Fun Fact: Darren Waller's Great-Grandfather Is  
clatterbuck : 3/14/2023 4:57 pm : link
jazz legend Thomas "Fats" Waller.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/14/2023 4:57 pm : link
Looking forward to Belly & Wally tearing it up as TE combo.
Not our problem but Josh Jacobs  
bceagle05 : 3/14/2023 4:58 pm : link
has tweeted his displeasure with the trade (linked above) and Davonte Adams seems disappointed his QB is Jimmy G. and not Rodgers. Gonna be fun to watch noted assclown Josh McDaniels try to maintain order in that locker room.
RE: RE: RE: Waller just married Kelsey Plum from the Las Vegas Aces (WNBA)  
Carson53 : 3/14/2023 4:59 pm : link
In comment 16063888 Spider43 said:
Quote:
In comment 16063748 dpinzow said:


Quote:


In comment 16063576 Fan_in_Philly2 said:


Quote:


Hope they are ok with a long-distance relationship.

At least the WNBA and NFL seasons don't overlap much.



Kelsey could just ask to play for the Liberty LOL…if you’ve seen her you know Waller is winning in the game of life as well as football.

Great trade by Schoen but only concern is Waller’s injury history



Ionescu for Plum?!

Chiming in with the others, I hope he's healthy.
.

Can Kelsey Plum play WR, when she is not playing hoops?
I like this move for Waller, very athletic, would like to see him add a few pounds to that frame.
I am confused  
D HOS : 3/14/2023 5:00 pm : link
Isn't this about the same as a Dalton Shultz contract minus the signing bonus and guarantees? But in the Asshat FA thread I thought it was kind of agreed this was too rich for the Giants to spend on a TE? Or did I not get the point?

Not criticizing this move at all. I like the trade! I just don't understand why they wouldn't have spent similar or slightly more (with the bonus) for Shultz who is younger and ascending (assuming he would have signed here).

I know Waller has been very good. Is he clearly above Shultz likely ceiling? Can someone help me grasp how this is a better move than signing Shultz would have been?

Either way, I am really happy we have a TE1. Our TE position is now at least solid, probably going to be a strength.
RE: Art Stapleton says we're also getting a 6th round pick:  
ColHowPepper : 3/14/2023 5:04 pm : link
In comment 16063631 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
27m
Giants trading Kadarius Toney for Darren Waller and a sixth round pick has a different feel, doesn't it? Link - ( New Window )

I think folks are mis-reading this (or I could be): Stapleton is simply referring to the intial consideration for trade of Toney to KC: its compensatory 3rd and a 6th, it's the same 6th as we got for Toney. Art is combining the '22 + '23 consideration
D HOS  
UConn4523 : 3/14/2023 5:05 pm : link
it’s possible we liked Schultz but not at his price. We can’t make players sign. And if he drags his feet, Waller gets traded else where then we get outbid on Schultz, our plans at TE are fucked.

Schoen identified a need, found a good deal and jumped on it. Waiting usually doesn’t work well.
RE: RE: Art Stapleton says we're also getting a 6th round pick:  
ColHowPepper : 3/14/2023 5:06 pm : link
In comment 16063657 Bourne ‘86 said:
Quote:
got the sixth when they traded Toney away. Stapleton is just putting both together. After the draft they’ll say giants traded Toney and it turned into Waller and (player drafted in the 6th)

yep, just getting to your post now...late as usual
Thats kind of what I was thinking.  
D HOS : 3/14/2023 5:07 pm : link
Like I said, I like the trade! Take the option you have, not focus on the one you may not have.
Hey if Davante is REALLY unhappy  
blueblood : 3/14/2023 5:09 pm : link
we have a #2 pick with his name on it LOL
RE: I am confused  
AcesUp : 3/14/2023 5:11 pm : link
In comment 16063964 D HOS said:
Quote:
Isn't this about the same as a Dalton Shultz contract minus the signing bonus and guarantees? But in the Asshat FA thread I thought it was kind of agreed this was too rich for the Giants to spend on a TE? Or did I not get the point?



We don't know where Schultz comes in but he's going to be 2x in guarantees on Waller's 10 at a minimum. Potentially up to 3x if he can get Kittle/Andrews money. That's significant.

Also, the Giants needed an offensive weapon. Not just another TE. While Schultz is a threat as a receiver, he doesn't challenge defenses like Waller does when he's healthy. They're different players and we were really lacking a couple key elements from Waller's game in our skill group.
Thank you, that makes sense.  
D HOS : 3/14/2023 5:12 pm : link
.
RE: remember waller isn't just a TE - he plays slot and wide  
ColHowPepper : 3/14/2023 5:14 pm : link
In comment 16063740 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
these are his career alignment %'s:

32% slot
23% wide (24% in his 2 best 1k+ yard seasons)
44% inline

last year he actually played in the slot 62% of the time and inline just 17%.

my guess is with bellinger they can afford to move waller around the formation a lot like the chiefs do with kelce. and he has that kind of receiving ability to get himself open that probably no TE other than kelce has. Kelce is also plays slot (44%) and wide (30%) more than inline (26%).

so for 11m per year and a a very late 3rd, the nyg took a chance on an injury prone guy but one who has impact upside at a cheaper price than any other WRs out there.

also with him and hodgins they now have 2 bigger targets. which makes it that much easier to out and add smaller/faster/explosive targets (not unlike Wandale).

good analysis, not sure I agree with the Wan'Dale part. But for sure it takes some pressure off having to go WR earlier than his and BB's board dictate for their highest rated on their board.
If this takes us out of the running  
colin : 3/14/2023 5:19 pm : link
for Jeudy I’ll be significantly less excited. That said, if he can reclaim his form and avoid injury this is a great get.
Great interview  
Y28 : 3/14/2023 5:56 pm : link
by Steve Serby with Waller in 2020.

Ryan Dunleavy just suggested Giants fans read it to learn about Waller as he opens up to Serby.
Link - ( New Window )
FWIW  
section125 : 3/14/2023 6:06 pm : link
Pat McAfee show talks about the Waller trade...they like it over there for the Giants
Pat McAfee on Waller trade - ( New Window )
Nice name but  
thefan : 3/14/2023 6:18 pm : link
he's over 30 and production hasn't been there since 2019/2020. I don't know how the cap will work on this, but it appears he will be off the books in about 2 or 3 years...same as DJ.

I'm not actually debbie downer on this, just not gonna inhale the koolaid. I hope this leads to a lot of creative schemes 2 TE and 3 TE schemes. It's great that we were able to get DJ at least one weapon before the draft as well.

As for what we got him for, a late 3 I think is a good deal for him.

RE: Nice name but  
eric2425ny : 3/14/2023 6:25 pm : link
In comment 16064091 thefan said:
Quote:
he's over 30 and production hasn't been there since 2019/2020. I don't know how the cap will work on this, but it appears he will be off the books in about 2 or 3 years...same as DJ.

I'm not actually debbie downer on this, just not gonna inhale the koolaid. I hope this leads to a lot of creative schemes 2 TE and 3 TE schemes. It's great that we were able to get DJ at least one weapon before the draft as well.

As for what we got him for, a late 3 I think is a good deal for him.


He’s off the books in one year if it doesn’t work out. No dead cap hit after 2023. Great deal, trade a literally end of third round pick for a guy with top 5 TE potential and can either keep him for four years or cut him after one if their not happy.
Trade Grade from The Athletic  
US1 Giants : 3/14/2023 6:27 pm : link
Giants’ trade grade: A-minus
Raiders’ trade grade: B

Quote:
Raiders fans will almost certainly disagree with this grade, which is expected when a team moves a popular player. But this was a business decision



Link - ( New Window )
RE: Really?  
RDJR : 3/14/2023 6:38 pm : link
In comment 16063524 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
a 3rd rounder for a 31 year-old(in Sept)?

Oh well, I trust in Schoen


BB - If somebody is one day over 30 you do not want them. 30 is the new 20 bro.
So basically $12M ish a year for however long he stays healthy?  
Kev in Cali : 3/14/2023 6:43 pm : link
and a 3rd??? IDK

I'd rather save the money for a "just as shiny penny" somewhere else. If the guy can stay healthy, it's win for sure!

I'm neutral on this trade I guess.
Creative way  
WillVAB : 3/14/2023 6:44 pm : link
To add a big, talented receiver at a reasonable cost. Good move if he’s healthy.
RE: So basically $12M ish a year for however long he stays healthy?  
WillVAB : 3/14/2023 6:47 pm : link
In comment 16064116 Kev in Cali said:
Quote:
and a 3rd??? IDK

I'd rather save the money for a "just as shiny penny" somewhere else. If the guy can stay healthy, it's win for sure!

I'm neutral on this trade I guess.


I’m kind of on the same page but he can line up all over the field. So this move essentially ensures the big WR everyone wanted who’s way more talented than anything likely to hit the market at WR at a reasonable cost.
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