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The cap - where we stand

mfjmfj : 3/14/2023 5:52 pm
Short Answer: All the available cap space we have is used. We can create more if we want to by pushing dollars forward with LW and AJ. Pretty easy to create something like $25-$30MM. Also extending Dex could create space, if we want.


So with all the moves this week, we now basically have no cap Space after we cut Golladay ( about $9MM if just top 51). For those that don't remember, only the top 51 count until we get to the regular season, then it is all 53. So we probably have just enough to sign our draft class, but will have to make some adjustments prior to the season beginning. Adjustments to make:

LW is the big one. His cap hit is $32MM, and we save $20MM this year and $6MM if we cut him. Could save more this year if we post june 1 him. Regardless of his cap hit, he is only getting paid $18MM this year. Cutting him is the answer if they don't think he is worth the $18MM. The other cap stuff is moot, since they can move it if they want. Option 2 is extend him - agree to a deal and spread the cap hit out. Cap wise they can pretty easily spread out as much money as they want this way. Question is whether they want to and what his price is. Lastly, they can just move the money to future years with bonus conversion and void years. They have done that before, which is why his number is so big now. We could do something similar with Adoree. His cap hit is $19MM, he is getting paid about $11.5MM, and cutting him saves about $8.5MM.

If they don't want to lock in money to LW or AJ, they could move money with the new contracts (seems unlikely), extend Dex, or trade/cut SB (the latter only if he has not signed FT).
We can also extend/workout a deal  
ZGiants98 : 3/14/2023 5:58 pm : link
With Barkley.
If they cut LW, SB or AJ for Waller  
Chip : 3/14/2023 5:58 pm : link
who will be 31 in September than he is an idiot. Which I don't believe the 3 current Giants are all in their 20s. It would make no sense.
They aren't cutting any of those guys  
ZogZerg : 3/14/2023 6:00 pm : link
come on now.
They can renegotiate  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/14/2023 6:03 pm : link
Waller. He won’t play this year’s with that cap hit.
Or, you can wait a day or two  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 3/14/2023 6:06 pm : link
To see how all the deals, contracts and restructures break out. They’ll have plenty of money to execute whatever their plan was.

And no, they’re not cutting Leo. He’s part of the solution, not the problem. If they need cash he’ll be extended.
From The Athletic  
DCOrange : 3/14/2023 6:08 pm : link
"It will be interesting to see how the Giants manage Waller’s contract. He is slated to count for $11.9 million against the salary cap in 2023.

There’s plenty of flexibility since the Giants could create about $7.5 million in cap savings by converting most of his $11 million salary into a bonus that prorates evenly over the four years of the contract. Otherwise, they’ll almost certainly need to do something to lower Leonard Williams’ $32.3 million cap hit this year in order to continue adding pieces in free agency.

However the money works out, the appeal of this trade is obvious for the Giants. For the cost of a late third-round pick, they acquired one of the most dynamic tight ends in the league. The top tight ends in free agency, who can’t match Waller’s production, will likely command salaries in the range of the $13.1 million average annual value of Waller’s contract with the Giants. And those free-agent contracts will include more money guaranteed."
Can Saquon be traded?  
The Dude : 3/14/2023 6:08 pm : link
Or is It strictly the 2x first round picks from that tag?
Schoen is not making deals  
section125 : 3/14/2023 6:10 pm : link
in a vacuum. He knows what he has and what he will get down the road. More contracts will be worked, players extended, Golladay cut.

In the end, they will have $10-$12 mill left after the draft picks are signed.
...  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/14/2023 6:15 pm : link

Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
7m
It’s fruitless to try to keep a running tally of cap space and it’s hard to even guess without seeing how Okereke’s deal is structured
RE: Can Saquon be traded?  
guitarguybs12 : 3/14/2023 6:17 pm : link
In comment 16064081 The Dude said:
Quote:
Or is It strictly the 2x first round picks from that tag?


only if he agrees to sign his franchise tender as part of a trade
They can't cut Leo  
BillT : 3/14/2023 6:20 pm : link
Who would that leave them with on the DL. Dex, Nunez-Roches and Ryder Anderson. That's nuts.
They went from third best in cap space  
Pepe LePugh : 3/14/2023 6:23 pm : link
to third worst. But retained all their key players and added significantly on both sides of the ball. They haven’t had to release any contributors, and they’ve done it without the need to monkey around with restructures or renegotiations. They have multiple ways to create whatever cap space they need going forward. This time last year they had no money and no moves available to create cap space. I’m thrilled with where we stand.
RE: They can renegotiate  
Stu11 : 3/14/2023 6:24 pm : link
In comment 16064076 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Waller. He won’t play this year’s with that cap hit.

Why? His contract is perfect. If he has a good year great. If he clunks like Rudolph did we can cut him this time next year with $495,000 dead money. Why change that?
I think  
Saquon'sQuadz : 3/14/2023 6:39 pm : link
Schoen knows his cap situation . It’s fluid and mostly a myth lol
RE: They can't cut Leo  
christian : 3/14/2023 7:15 pm : link
In comment 16064093 BillT said:
Quote:
Who would that leave them with on the DL. Dex, Nunez-Roches and Ryder Anderson. That's nuts.


At a minimum there would be a healthy trade market for Williams, especially if the Giants ate some salary.
RE: RE: They can't cut Leo  
BillT : 3/14/2023 7:33 pm : link
In comment 16064159 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16064093 BillT said:


Quote:


Who would that leave them with on the DL. Dex, Nunez-Roches and Ryder Anderson. That's nuts.



At a minimum there would be a healthy trade market for Williams, especially if the Giants ate some salary.

Trade him for what. We’d still be left with Dex, Nunez-Roches and Ryder Anderson as our staring DL. You thought our run D was bad last year. You think Okereke will save us behind that DL.
i would expect them to restructure some of waller's money right away  
Eric on Li : 3/14/2023 7:49 pm : link
they can create room if they want to. give adoree jackson the 20m guaranteed bradberry just got and add a few years on him.
...  
christian : 3/14/2023 8:01 pm : link
In comment 16064179 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 16064159 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 16064093 BillT said:


Quote:


Who would that leave them with on the DL. Dex, Nunez-Roches and Ryder Anderson. That's nuts.



At a minimum there would be a healthy trade market for Williams, especially if the Giants ate some salary.


Trade him for what. We’d still be left with Dex, Nunez-Roches and Ryder Anderson as our staring DL. You thought our run D was bad last year. You think Okereke will save us behind that DL.


What I'm saying is there is no way the Giants are straight cutting Williams. At worst he would be traded.

I don't think trading him is a high likelihood scenario. They'd have to get a top 50 pick back, and presumably they'd draft his replacement on day one or two.

But I think it's all moot, because they have myriad other ways to make the cap work this year.
The problem with restructuring Waller is that  
cosmicj : 3/14/2023 8:16 pm : link
If his body breaks down, you are faced with a dead cap hit. One of the attractions of acquiring him is that it really isn’t very risky.
And anyone talking about releasing Williams is high.  
cosmicj : 3/14/2023 8:18 pm : link
He’s among the 3 best players on the team.

This Shiny New Toy Season gets annoying quickly. Remember when Kenny Golladay was going to lead the new powerful Giants offense?
RE: The problem with restructuring Waller is that  
Eric on Li : 3/14/2023 8:23 pm : link
In comment 16064250 cosmicj said:
Quote:
If his body breaks down, you are faced with a dead cap hit. One of the attractions of acquiring him is that it really isn’t very risky.


if they restructure 8m this year, it creates 6m of cap space in return for 6m of dead money risk left after this year. so even if they cut him next year they'd still save about 4-5m.

yes a big part of the appeal is that right now there's 0 dead money risk, but i would hope they like the player enough that they are willing to carry a little bit of risk.

the best ways to create room are extending jackson and leonard williams with guaranteed $ at flatter cap hits.

does adoree turn down something close to the bradberry deal right now? id doubt it. or leo something close to what dremont just got from seattle? again doubt it. depending on structure those 2 deals could save something like 10-15m of cap space and keep good players in the fold at reasonable AAVs.
Leo isn’t going anywhere  
mattlawson : 3/14/2023 8:54 pm : link
Nor is Barkley.
RE: ...  
mfjmfj : 3/14/2023 9:23 pm : link
In comment 16064086 gidiefor said:
Quote:

Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
7m
It’s fruitless to try to keep a running tally of cap space and it’s hard to even guess without seeing how Okereke’s deal is structured


Wow, I feel stupid. I didnt even notice his deal was not yet in the numbers. Unfortunately, I agree with Gidie. I am not suggesting we cut anybody. Just outlining options. And once Okereke's numbers are in the need for manipulation becomes immediate.
I think you are on to something though  
DavidinBMNY : 3/14/2023 9:35 pm : link
Betweeen Barkley, Leo, Dex and Waller they will do something deals wise to create more space this year.

They need draft $, in season $ and fcontinued roster building $. It would make sense to do at least some of this now.
$3M in cap space not counting Okereke  
JonC : 3/14/2023 10:43 pm : link
time to file some redo's with lower hits.
Current space probably  
PEEJ : 3/14/2023 11:05 pm : link
doesn't include Golladay release tomorrow
Oops  
PEEJ : 3/14/2023 11:06 pm : link
Missed previous mention
Leo's 31M cap hit  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 3/15/2023 8:52 am : link

is probably one of the top things that JS is working on.
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