Like the offensive line is going to addressed through the draft. The drafted the 3 last year and brought in one via FA. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a couple drafted this year too
I'd rather let that market cool off and look at the draft. Not a huge Feliciano fan but they're gonna have to bring him back too. I'd be psyched if the value lined up and they landed a guard early-ish in the draft.
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
We are counting on improvements from neal and ezuedu in pass pro fairly large ones I think both have the ability to do that but will it be enough
would love to grab a top 5 OC in 1st 3 rds dude from Minn if he slips to our 2nd pick
I would take one in the 2nd round that group Ezudu, Glowinski and Bredeson were not that good and allowed to much penetration eliminating a pocket for Jones to step up into which is why Jones rolled out so much.
Young OL as they do, at some point you have to develop them. That means playing. Continuing to add depth is a good idea, but if you’ve identified 5 to start, and they are young, roll with them.
RE: With guys like Andre Dillard getting 10 million per year
I'd rather let that market cool off and look at the draft. Not a huge Feliciano fan but they're gonna have to bring him back too. I'd be psyched if the value lined up and they landed a guard early-ish in the draft.
JF wasnt bad basically avergae I think BB may be a darkhorse for OC job he played pretty good there
I would take one in the 2nd round that group Ezudu, Glowinski and Bredeson were not that good and allowed to much penetration eliminating a pocket for Jones to step up into which is why Jones rolled out so much.
coaching staff will make their hay by player development
so what we see with our lineman shouldnt be a finished product
wonder if M mckethen will show anything too?
I would take one in the 2nd round that group Ezudu, Glowinski and Bredeson were not that good and allowed to much penetration eliminating a pocket for Jones to step up into which is why Jones rolled out so much.
This is the year to get a 10 year guy at center on day 2.
In comment 16064264 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 16064172 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
Thomas/Ezeudu/Bredeson/Glowinski/Neal
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
With the exception of Thomas, all of our current OL are developmental!
True, but you have to give them time to develop. Ezedud and Neal were drafted to be the starters. It is a risk, but they need time and reps to see what they are.
RE: the biggest offseason move the Giants can make
The 3 areas the Giants must improve (beyond depth) entering the off-season were:
OL
LB
WR
They took care of linebacker. Best position to go after in free agency out of the 3 as the cost is lower. Smart move.
They must shore up and continue to build the line. Jones isn’t the guy to create on his own, and even the best QBs need a solid OL at the very least. Neal should improve, but that’s not an off-season move. Giants need a Center and a guard. Plus depth.
On defense, Dex and Leo are studs but they need a compliment and can’t play this number of snaps again. With the accelerating salaries at the position, they should look to draft to bring someone in there.
WR is too obvious to discuss again, but the focus should be the line. Build from inside out, not the other way around.
on the open market, relative to cap space available, scheme fit, etc. You can't force signings.
On the OL, Vic is probably right at this point. They're going to rely on guys drafted last year to be better in 2023, and perhaps add a guy or two via the draft to keep the pipeline full. On the DL, there's maybe one spot left up for grabs, and they've added Davis and Okereke at ILB.
to solidify the line. No C/G on their roster was good at the combination of pass and run blocking. Need an anchor here.
I agree. John Michael Schmidt. Center. University Minnesota
I like Schmidt a lot too, but he probably goes late first or early second... and I think the Giants will want to draft a premium postion (WR or CB) at 25.
Weston Richburg was the last Giants Center to start two years in a row
They could still re-sign Feliciano, or they could move Bredesen there permanently. Personally, I still hope they draft a good OC prospect, one who's played it in college, not simply another OG conversion project, which is what they have now. I'm not as worried about OG, at least not as much as I am about RT. Glowinski aside, they do have some young OG's they can still develop.
For me, though, there's still some work to do to beef up the D-Line. Nacho was a good start. DT depth absolutely needed to be upgraded. I wish they'd do the same for DE.
They just need be honest and accurate with the evaluations with what they have. If they have doubts then you have to address.
The OL has caused so many of the offensive issues for a decade. It needs to be upper tier to compete for a championship.
I agree with Klattu. DE is another need and I think they need a starter and would not mind this as Pick 1. Maybe sign Campbell if they think he still has it as well.
They just need be honest and accurate with the evaluations with what they have. If they have doubts then you have to address.
The OL has caused so many of the offensive issues for a decade. It needs to be upper tier to compete for a championship.
I agree with Klattu. DE is another need and I think they need a starter and would not mind this as Pick 1. Maybe sign Campbell if they think he still has it as well.
I don't like the 2-4-5. I especially don't like it when you're asking Ojulari to set the edge, which has never been his forte'. I'd much rather see a return to a more traditional 3-4, especially if they're going to hold onto Williams. Jihad Ward is a good guy to have around for a variety of reasons, but let's face it, he's eminently upgradeable (sic). If they draft another DE, fine. I'm all for it. But I'd still like to sign a guy like A'Shawn Robinson or Rasheem Green if we could afford it.
They just need be honest and accurate with the evaluations with what they have. If they have doubts then you have to address.
The OL has caused so many of the offensive issues for a decade. It needs to be upper tier to compete for a championship.
I agree with Klattu. DE is another need and I think they need a starter and would not mind this as Pick 1. Maybe sign Campbell if they think he still has it as well.
I don't like the 2-4-5. I especially don't like it when you're asking Ojulari to set the edge, which has never been his forte'. I'd much rather see a return to a more traditional 3-4, especially if they're going to hold onto Williams. Jihad Ward is a good guy to have around for a variety of reasons, but let's face it, he's eminently upgradeable (sic). If they draft another DE, fine. I'm all for it. But I'd still like to sign a guy like A'Shawn Robinson or Rasheem Green if we could afford it.
Are we sure that is what Wink wants? Maybe he adjusted to the talent. I'd like a traditional DE like you. I also think a LB to replace Ojulari. He then can be used primarily as a pass rusher.
The DE will most likely have to be a premium pick and he can slide inside at times to rush.
Lines kind of beat me to a response to Klattu. Agreed to a point. The fact is the Giants don't play a 2-4-5; they play a pretty standard 4-2-5 with the DEs essentially converted OLBs who aren't necessarily as big as in the old days. The other thing to note is that the Giants primary goal on D last year was not to give up the big play. As a result, they stayed in a two-deep safety scheme pretty much all year and very seldom brought any more than the 6 into the box. Fact is that maybe other than the Eagles playoff game the Giants didn't lose any games at all this year because they couldn't stop the run. And if you do stop the run all the other team does is pass all the time and if you can't stop that you're screwed anyway!
I think I agree with Lines that if the Giants do address the DL early in the 2023 draft (and I expect they really want to) it won't be simply a body to plug a hole. They will be looking for someone who can come in and rush the passer. And as I have said before it could be a tweener type who can play outside on early downs and then kick inside on pass downs. The most obvious candidate if the Giants wanted to go there at #25 is Keion White; the other guy who is really starting to generate some buzz is ade Adebawore of Northwestern who is 6-2, 282 and ran a sub-4-5 at the combine.
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
As we all know, they may be set, but NEAL and EZEUDU are both big ????
I wasn’t aware Bredeson has been given the starting Center job already….what happened to José Feliciano? I know he is a FA, but what if he is re-signed? Is it still Bredson’s?
Lines kind of beat me to a response to Klattu. Agreed to a point. The fact is the Giants don't play a 2-4-5; they play a pretty standard 4-2-5 with the DEs essentially converted OLBs who aren't necessarily as big as in the old days. The other thing to note is that the Giants primary goal on D last year was not to give up the big play. As a result, they stayed in a two-deep safety scheme pretty much all year and very seldom brought any more than the 6 into the box. Fact is that maybe other than the Eagles playoff game the Giants didn't lose any games at all this year because they couldn't stop the run. And if you do stop the run all the other team does is pass all the time and if you can't stop that you're screwed anyway!
I think I agree with Lines that if the Giants do address the DL early in the 2023 draft (and I expect they really want to) it won't be simply a body to plug a hole. They will be looking for someone who can come in and rush the passer. And as I have said before it could be a tweener type who can play outside on early downs and then kick inside on pass downs. The most obvious candidate if the Giants wanted to go there at #25 is Keion White; the other guy who is really starting to generate some buzz is ade Adebawore of Northwestern who is 6-2, 282 and ran a sub-4-5 at the combine.
Colin, call it what you will, but you're still asking Ojulari to do something he's never done well before, while limiting his ability to do what he does best. He should be protected, allowed to roam free, not mixing it up one-on-one with offensive linemen. Interestingly, the prospects you mentioned are very similar to the free agents I listed, Robinson and Green. I'd be happy if the Giants chose either course.
Lines kind of beat me to a response to Klattu. Agreed to a point. The fact is the Giants don't play a 2-4-5; they play a pretty standard 4-2-5 with the DEs essentially converted OLBs who aren't necessarily as big as in the old days. The other thing to note is that the Giants primary goal on D last year was not to give up the big play. As a result, they stayed in a two-deep safety scheme pretty much all year and very seldom brought any more than the 6 into the box. Fact is that maybe other than the Eagles playoff game the Giants didn't lose any games at all this year because they couldn't stop the run. And if you do stop the run all the other team does is pass all the time and if you can't stop that you're screwed anyway!
I think I agree with Lines that if the Giants do address the DL early in the 2023 draft (and I expect they really want to) it won't be simply a body to plug a hole. They will be looking for someone who can come in and rush the passer. And as I have said before it could be a tweener type who can play outside on early downs and then kick inside on pass downs. The most obvious candidate if the Giants wanted to go there at #25 is Keion White; the other guy who is really starting to generate some buzz is ade Adebawore of Northwestern who is 6-2, 282 and ran a sub-4-5 at the combine.
Colin, call it what you will, but you're still asking Ojulari to do something he's never done well before, while limiting his ability to do what he does best. He should be protected, allowed to roam free, not mixing it up one-on-one with offensive linemen. Interestingly, the prospects you mentioned are very similar to the free agents I listed, Robinson and Green. I'd be happy if the Giants chose either course.
Well Klaatu, what kind of DE are we looking for, since Robinson and Green are very different players? Robinson is nearly as big as Dexter Lawrence and would probably come off the field on passing downs, while Green is about 60 lbs lighter than him.
Your pass rushing OLBs tend to be up on the line edge, and working outside in. Also, Ojulari was a draft pick of the DG regime and it remains to be seen if he's kept around long term. He's got to keep his arse on the field, for starters.
Colin, call it what you will, but you're still asking Ojulari to do something he's never done well before, while limiting his ability to do what he does best. He should be protected, allowed to roam free, not mixing it up one-on-one with offensive linemen. Interestingly, the prospects you mentioned are very similar to the free agents I listed, Robinson and Green. I'd be happy if the Giants chose either course.
Well Klaatu, what kind of DE are we looking for, since Robinson and Green are very different players? Robinson is nearly as big as Dexter Lawrence and would probably come off the field on passing downs, while Green is about 60 lbs lighter than him.
I thought Robinson was 300, not 330, so I'd go with Green, 6-4, 280.
It's a pipe dream, though, because we probably couldn't afford him. On to the draft.
Klattu: Certainly that is a point to consider; however my guess is that if Az Ojulari ends up consistently putting double digit sack numbers - and he certainly has the potential if he can stay healthy - the Giants couldn't give a rat's petunia about how he defends the run. The truth is the Giants whole defense is pretty much oriented to trying to stop the pass.
I guess my other point in all this is that I really don't see Schoen and company going into this draft - at least their early picks - simply looking to plug holes. You don't win championships plugging holes; you win championships by acquiring impact players who make impact plays. I also suspect that as much as they want to address WR they'd also really like to add a quality DL and my sense is they'd like to add someone like White who can fill multiple and most importantly can give you a pass rush from multiple spots on the field. The other guy I might add to that equation along with Ade Ade might be Calijah Kancey. All three guys are potentially special players who might be very tempting if they can see another avenue to address the WR situation. and again it wouldn't surprise me that if the Giants got a WR in one then they'd try and trade up into the second to get one of those guys; or if they did go with the DL early thn try and trade back up to get the best WR available. Going to be a really interesting 6 weeks or so.
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
We are counting on improvements from neal and ezuedu in pass pro fairly large ones I think both have the ability to do that but will it be enough
would love to grab a top 5 OC in 1st 3 rds dude from Minn if he slips to our 2nd pick
JF wasnt bad basically avergae I think BB may be a darkhorse for OC job he played pretty good there
+ a million
I agree. John Michael Schmidt. Center. University Minnesota
One of the most efficient plays run in 2022 was a Daniel Jones designed run. You can't defend the run and over the top,same as it has always been.
We close, get Juedy. Finished 2022 like a savage.
coaching staff will make their hay by player development
so what we see with our lineman shouldnt be a finished product
wonder if M mckethen will show anything too?
This is the year to get a 10 year guy at center on day 2.
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
With the exception of Thomas, all of our current OL are developmental!
Draft OL,DL in two of the first three picks this year. Use the other one of CB/WR/ILB highest on your board.
Quote:
Thomas/Ezeudu/Bredeson/Glowinski/Neal
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
With the exception of Thomas, all of our current OL are developmental!
True, but you have to give them time to develop. Ezedud and Neal were drafted to be the starters. It is a risk, but they need time and reps to see what they are.
this concern is nagging me - everyone focuses on IOL, but the bigger problem at the end of the season was RT
There's no time to wallow in the mire
We cam only lose...
If our OL becomes a funeral pyre - ( New Window )
OL
LB
WR
They took care of linebacker. Best position to go after in free agency out of the 3 as the cost is lower. Smart move.
They must shore up and continue to build the line. Jones isn’t the guy to create on his own, and even the best QBs need a solid OL at the very least. Neal should improve, but that’s not an off-season move. Giants need a Center and a guard. Plus depth.
On defense, Dex and Leo are studs but they need a compliment and can’t play this number of snaps again. With the accelerating salaries at the position, they should look to draft to bring someone in there.
WR is too obvious to discuss again, but the focus should be the line. Build from inside out, not the other way around.
Quote:
to solidify the line. No C/G on their roster was good at the combination of pass and run blocking. Need an anchor here.
I agree. John Michael Schmidt. Center. University Minnesota
+100
The DT absolutely but the linebacker plays off the line of scrimmage. Yes that position does support the run.
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
Bravo! I’m absolutely of this mindset
When is the last time two Guards were drafted from the same team in the same draft? I can’t remember when…maybe it happens more than I know.
My guess is we see the NC duo making waves come camp.
The FO obviously saw something…using a 3rd and a 6th
On the OL, Vic is probably right at this point. They're going to rely on guys drafted last year to be better in 2023, and perhaps add a guy or two via the draft to keep the pipeline full. On the DL, there's maybe one spot left up for grabs, and they've added Davis and Okereke at ILB.
Quote:
to solidify the line. No C/G on their roster was good at the combination of pass and run blocking. Need an anchor here.
I agree. John Michael Schmidt. Center. University Minnesota
I like Schmidt a lot too, but he probably goes late first or early second... and I think the Giants will want to draft a premium postion (WR or CB) at 25.
For me, though, there's still some work to do to beef up the D-Line. Nacho was a good start. DT depth absolutely needed to be upgraded. I wish they'd do the same for DE.
The OL has caused so many of the offensive issues for a decade. It needs to be upper tier to compete for a championship.
I agree with Klattu. DE is another need and I think they need a starter and would not mind this as Pick 1. Maybe sign Campbell if they think he still has it as well.
The OL has caused so many of the offensive issues for a decade. It needs to be upper tier to compete for a championship.
I agree with Klattu. DE is another need and I think they need a starter and would not mind this as Pick 1. Maybe sign Campbell if they think he still has it as well.
I don't like the 2-4-5. I especially don't like it when you're asking Ojulari to set the edge, which has never been his forte'. I'd much rather see a return to a more traditional 3-4, especially if they're going to hold onto Williams. Jihad Ward is a good guy to have around for a variety of reasons, but let's face it, he's eminently upgradeable (sic). If they draft another DE, fine. I'm all for it. But I'd still like to sign a guy like A'Shawn Robinson or Rasheem Green if we could afford it.
Quote:
They just need be honest and accurate with the evaluations with what they have. If they have doubts then you have to address.
The OL has caused so many of the offensive issues for a decade. It needs to be upper tier to compete for a championship.
I agree with Klattu. DE is another need and I think they need a starter and would not mind this as Pick 1. Maybe sign Campbell if they think he still has it as well.
I don't like the 2-4-5. I especially don't like it when you're asking Ojulari to set the edge, which has never been his forte'. I'd much rather see a return to a more traditional 3-4, especially if they're going to hold onto Williams. Jihad Ward is a good guy to have around for a variety of reasons, but let's face it, he's eminently upgradeable (sic). If they draft another DE, fine. I'm all for it. But I'd still like to sign a guy like A'Shawn Robinson or Rasheem Green if we could afford it.
Are we sure that is what Wink wants? Maybe he adjusted to the talent. I'd like a traditional DE like you. I also think a LB to replace Ojulari. He then can be used primarily as a pass rusher.
The DE will most likely have to be a premium pick and he can slide inside at times to rush.
I think I agree with Lines that if the Giants do address the DL early in the 2023 draft (and I expect they really want to) it won't be simply a body to plug a hole. They will be looking for someone who can come in and rush the passer. And as I have said before it could be a tweener type who can play outside on early downs and then kick inside on pass downs. The most obvious candidate if the Giants wanted to go there at #25 is Keion White; the other guy who is really starting to generate some buzz is ade Adebawore of Northwestern who is 6-2, 282 and ran a sub-4-5 at the combine.
And as Schoen said, they like the depth with Lemieux, Phillips, McKethan, Anderson, Davis, Kindley, and Hamilton, Peart, and Cunningham.
They seemed to address the line extensively last offseason, now it is time to see how they develop and grow.
I think we will see some more depth, but I wouldn't expect anything with substantial money or a starter. Get some developmental linemen in the draft.
As we all know, they may be set, but NEAL and EZEUDU are both big ????
I wasn’t aware Bredeson has been given the starting Center job already….what happened to José Feliciano? I know he is a FA, but what if he is re-signed? Is it still Bredson’s?
I think I agree with Lines that if the Giants do address the DL early in the 2023 draft (and I expect they really want to) it won't be simply a body to plug a hole. They will be looking for someone who can come in and rush the passer. And as I have said before it could be a tweener type who can play outside on early downs and then kick inside on pass downs. The most obvious candidate if the Giants wanted to go there at #25 is Keion White; the other guy who is really starting to generate some buzz is ade Adebawore of Northwestern who is 6-2, 282 and ran a sub-4-5 at the combine.
Colin, call it what you will, but you're still asking Ojulari to do something he's never done well before, while limiting his ability to do what he does best. He should be protected, allowed to roam free, not mixing it up one-on-one with offensive linemen. Interestingly, the prospects you mentioned are very similar to the free agents I listed, Robinson and Green. I'd be happy if the Giants chose either course.
Quote:
Lines kind of beat me to a response to Klattu. Agreed to a point. The fact is the Giants don't play a 2-4-5; they play a pretty standard 4-2-5 with the DEs essentially converted OLBs who aren't necessarily as big as in the old days. The other thing to note is that the Giants primary goal on D last year was not to give up the big play. As a result, they stayed in a two-deep safety scheme pretty much all year and very seldom brought any more than the 6 into the box. Fact is that maybe other than the Eagles playoff game the Giants didn't lose any games at all this year because they couldn't stop the run. And if you do stop the run all the other team does is pass all the time and if you can't stop that you're screwed anyway!
I think I agree with Lines that if the Giants do address the DL early in the 2023 draft (and I expect they really want to) it won't be simply a body to plug a hole. They will be looking for someone who can come in and rush the passer. And as I have said before it could be a tweener type who can play outside on early downs and then kick inside on pass downs. The most obvious candidate if the Giants wanted to go there at #25 is Keion White; the other guy who is really starting to generate some buzz is ade Adebawore of Northwestern who is 6-2, 282 and ran a sub-4-5 at the combine.
Colin, call it what you will, but you're still asking Ojulari to do something he's never done well before, while limiting his ability to do what he does best. He should be protected, allowed to roam free, not mixing it up one-on-one with offensive linemen. Interestingly, the prospects you mentioned are very similar to the free agents I listed, Robinson and Green. I'd be happy if the Giants chose either course.
Well Klaatu, what kind of DE are we looking for, since Robinson and Green are very different players? Robinson is nearly as big as Dexter Lawrence and would probably come off the field on passing downs, while Green is about 60 lbs lighter than him.
Colin, call it what you will, but you're still asking Ojulari to do something he's never done well before, while limiting his ability to do what he does best. He should be protected, allowed to roam free, not mixing it up one-on-one with offensive linemen. Interestingly, the prospects you mentioned are very similar to the free agents I listed, Robinson and Green. I'd be happy if the Giants chose either course.
Well Klaatu, what kind of DE are we looking for, since Robinson and Green are very different players? Robinson is nearly as big as Dexter Lawrence and would probably come off the field on passing downs, while Green is about 60 lbs lighter than him.
I thought Robinson was 300, not 330, so I'd go with Green, 6-4, 280.
It's a pipe dream, though, because we probably couldn't afford him. On to the draft.
I guess my other point in all this is that I really don't see Schoen and company going into this draft - at least their early picks - simply looking to plug holes. You don't win championships plugging holes; you win championships by acquiring impact players who make impact plays. I also suspect that as much as they want to address WR they'd also really like to add a quality DL and my sense is they'd like to add someone like White who can fill multiple and most importantly can give you a pass rush from multiple spots on the field. The other guy I might add to that equation along with Ade Ade might be Calijah Kancey. All three guys are potentially special players who might be very tempting if they can see another avenue to address the WR situation. and again it wouldn't surprise me that if the Giants got a WR in one then they'd try and trade up into the second to get one of those guys; or if they did go with the DL early thn try and trade back up to get the best WR available. Going to be a really interesting 6 weeks or so.