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The slow start to the WR market and Slayton.

mfjmfj : 3/15/2023 6:44 am
We all know the WR FA market is thin this year. But the signings have been slow, and below expectations (Meyers, Lazard).

For Slayton, he might have gotten cheap enough to keep. I know he is frustrating, but his positive impact was very significant last season. Not sure he wants to stay, and not sure the Giants want him, but his price might be coming down.
Hard to judge what  
section125 : 3/15/2023 6:48 am : link
Schoen wants or if he even wants Slayton back. I found it interesting that Gates left quickly. He must have been told the Giants were not bringing him back.
Slayton is better than people think  
Rjanyg : 3/15/2023 6:57 am : link
He had good size, great speed and had stayed healthy. His shirt comings are critical drops and inconsistent route running.

We need to realize he was a 5th round pick for a reason, that said he has done fairly well. He took a pay cut to stay last year and was important to our play off run.

It wouldn’t be exciting for most for him to return but the options are limited.

RE: Hard to judge what  
Vin_Cuccs : 3/15/2023 7:01 am : link
In comment 16064508 section125 said:
Quote:
Schoen wants or if he even wants Slayton back. I found it interesting that Gates left quickly. He must have been told the Giants were not bringing him back.


On a recent Talkin' Giants podcast, Justin and Bobby (who have a connection to Gates) said that the team was only interested in Gates as a rotational/depth piece at a minimum contract. Obviously, Gates thought he could do better, and he did. It is clear that the organization thinks they have better options.
RE: RE: Hard to judge what  
section125 : 3/15/2023 7:07 am : link
In comment 16064515 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
In comment 16064508 section125 said:


Quote:


Schoen wants or if he even wants Slayton back. I found it interesting that Gates left quickly. He must have been told the Giants were not bringing him back.



On a recent Talkin' Giants podcast, Justin and Bobby (who have a connection to Gates) said that the team was only interested in Gates as a rotational/depth piece at a minimum contract. Obviously, Gates thought he could do better, and he did. It is clear that the organization thinks they have better options.


Ah, ha...too bad he went to DC.
Meyers got $11 million  
ajr2456 : 3/15/2023 7:30 am : link
Slayton will probably still get $5-6 million.
Lazard signed below…  
Chris in Philly : 3/15/2023 7:46 am : link
expectations? That dude should be in jail for stealing with that contract!
Giants fans  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2023 7:52 am : link
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.
RE: Hard to judge what  
Pepe LePugh : 3/15/2023 7:53 am : link
In comment 16064508 section125 said:
Quote:
Schoen wants or if he even wants Slayton back. I found it interesting that Gates left quickly. He must have been told the Giants were not bringing him back.

Or being offered 3/$16.5M two years removed from his only starting season was a deal he had to jump on.
RE: Giants fans  
Danny Kanell : 3/15/2023 7:55 am : link
In comment 16064545 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.


Plus a million
RE: Giants fans  
bigbluescot : 3/15/2023 7:58 am : link
In comment 16064545 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.


He's a pure 'what if' player. What if he didn't drop so much, what if he was a slightly better route runner. Couple that with flashes and not having a consistent deep threat in years but him being the closest thing to it, and people get enamored with the what if, but he is who he is as a player at 26.

I don't think he's a terrible receiver he'd be serviceable in a better group, but he's someone we need to move on from at this point.
RE: Giants fans  
Vin_Cuccs : 3/15/2023 8:00 am : link
In comment 16064545 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.


Could not agree more. Slayton is a depth piece. Yes, he belongs on a roster, but I do not think he is a starting-caliber player. Add on the fact that he is likely going to be overpaid, and I don't think he is in the plans moving forward.
There’s a reason  
mittenedman : 3/15/2023 8:05 am : link
Slayton was buried on the depth chart after camp broke. The coaches see him every day, and they had no use for him.

Only when the situation became desperate, did he play.

I think they made a big mistake not letting Gates be the C - but oh well. I trust them right now.
If not for camp injuries  
Blueworm : 3/15/2023 8:30 am : link
He would have been cut.
RE: Giants fans  
Rjanyg : 3/15/2023 8:32 am : link
In comment 16064545 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.


He is a feast of famine player. Not great but not bad. He is at best a number 3. I don't think we make the playoffs without him last year.
something to consider  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2023 8:32 am : link
too...
Giants’ Darren Waller acquisition allows Joe Schoen to keep an eye on next year’s free-agent WR class - ( New Window )
Love what Slayton for us did last year and am a fan  
BillT : 3/15/2023 8:40 am : link
But like OBJ is he smart, tough and dependable. Unlike OBJ who I think is none of those things at least he’s tough. He’s not really dependable hands wise though he does stay in the field and who, but the staff, knows if he’s smart. With Meyers and Lazard only getting 11 per what’s Slayton worth. 3/4? At least there is that.
Get the WR’s in the draft not FA this year  
Rick in Dallas : 3/15/2023 8:47 am : link
This year’s WR class in the draft does not have any blue chip prospects but goes have quite a few red chip prospects
Don’t underestimate the Waller trade. If healthy he acts as a WR and will open the field for our other WR ‘s.
Let’s get a CB now in FA thst can add depth to the secondary.
RE: Giants fans  
Johnny5 : 3/15/2023 8:47 am : link
In comment 16064545 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.

For sure. But it seems much of that narrative comes from people looking more to shit on Jones than actually praise Slayton... lol.

From my perspective, He's easy to root for and he's done pretty well for a 5th rounder, so I would like him back as depth at reasonable cost.
RE: Giants fans  
Pepe LePugh : 3/15/2023 8:56 am : link
In comment 16064545 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.

Rookie season plus last year. He contributed. Two years out of four?
As far as mediocrity, 3/4 of any team is going to be average at best. As long as you don’t overpay, mediocre players still have value.
Having Waller here  
AcesUp : 3/15/2023 9:12 am : link
Opens up Slayton as an option to me. I had issues with him being one of our 2 top WRs and also didn't want him as our best vertical threat. Waller pushes him down in both areas. I think he's fine as your 3rd option, especially accounting for the fact that if you hit on your rookie WR or Wan'Dale emerges he's probably your 4th option that brings a deep element to your WR room.

We still need a vet at WR before the draft and all of our options are mediocre. It's just a matter of what flavor of mediocre the coaches want. If you get him or Hardman at 5-7ish short term I think that's fine. Chark at 10ish if you want to splurge.
Pepe LePugh  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2023 9:18 am : link
Last year????

He started the year as the 7th wide receiver on the roster, barely making the cut. If Collin Johnson didn't get hurt, Slayton isn't a NYG.

Early in the season, David Sills and Marcus Johnson were ahead of him.

He played in 16 games with 11 starts, mainly because of the situations with Shepard, Toney, and Golladay and because he finally moved ahead of the other terrible WRs on the roster.

Despite his 11 starts (and 65 percent of all offensive snaps), he only had 46 catches and two touchdowns. Do the math. He also DROPPED seven passes. He also dropped 6 in 2020 and 6 in 2021, an ongoing issue with him.

He should have thrived with Daniel Jones last year, yet a PS pick-up late in the season proved to be the better player.

I would offer him the vet minimum.
don't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2023 9:19 am : link
get attached to mediocrity, or you will be complaining about mediocrity in about six months.
RE: Slayton is better than people think  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2023 9:21 am : link
In comment 16064512 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
He had good size, great speed and had stayed healthy. His shirt comings are critical drops and inconsistent route running.

We need to realize he was a 5th round pick for a reason, that said he has done fairly well. He took a pay cut to stay last year and was important to our play off run.

It wouldn’t be exciting for most for him to return but the options are limited.


He was great value for a 5th rounder but now it’s about compensation and where that aligns with his ability. I wouldn’t mind him being a Giant but we’ve seen his likely peak and I’d like to explore options with a player that has more upside in the WR3/4 range. Hardman is versatile, Chark has the most upside of anyone, and then there’s rock solid vets like JuJu.
They have a need for a mediocre vet WR though  
AcesUp : 3/15/2023 9:23 am : link
WR room lacks experience and bodies. As of now, the only guy that can be counted for Week 1, that has played meaningful live snaps is Hodgins. They're going to need to add a WR in the 5ish AAV range at a minimum.
RE: Giants fans  
mfjmfj : 3/15/2023 9:23 am : link
In comment 16064545 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have gotten way too accustomed to mediocrity or worse. Slayton's "impact" has not been significant since his rookie season in 2019. I can't get over how some think he is part of the solution here.


I think we have similar views of Slayton, but different views of the fanbase. Because Slayton's drops are so visible he gets more hate than he deserves. He was critical to the team's success last year, both because he made a number of big plays, and because no one else was opening up things by threatening the go. The fact that we had to rely on him so much shows that are receiving corps did not rise to the level of mediocrity. In terms of impact we likely lose the following games if we are starting David Sills instead of him: Green Bay, Jacksonville, Houston, 1st Wahington. Given that he didn't play the first few games, that is a significant impact. Not because he was great. But because he was pretty good. It is possible to understand he is not a very good receiver and still believe he had a very substantive impact on the Giants last year.
mfjmfj  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2023 9:30 am : link
Slayton should get credit for his contributions but it’s reasonable to assume if it wasn’t him it would have been someone else. James and Hodgins also stepped up and had career years - someone had to catch the passes.

This was a unit void of talent and they played admirably despite their shortcomings. But only one of those guys has the upside we need moving forward and thankfully we have him for one more very cheap year.
RE: Pepe LePugh  
AcidTest : 3/15/2023 9:30 am : link
In comment 16064617 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Last year????

He started the year as the 7th wide receiver on the roster, barely making the cut. If Collin Johnson didn't get hurt, Slayton isn't a NYG.

Early in the season, David Sills and Marcus Johnson were ahead of him.

He played in 16 games with 11 starts, mainly because of the situations with Shepard, Toney, and Golladay and because he finally moved ahead of the other terrible WRs on the roster.

Despite his 11 starts (and 65 percent of all offensive snaps), he only had 46 catches and two touchdowns. Do the math. He also DROPPED seven passes. He also dropped 6 in 2020 and 6 in 2021, an ongoing issue with him.

He should have thrived with Daniel Jones last year, yet a PS pick-up late in the season proved to be the better player.

I would offer him the vet minimum.


^This. One of his drops nearly cost us a playoff victory. He also doesn't play ST, which is imperative for a fifth or sixth WR. I would nonetheless probably offer him a little more than the vet minimum because of his speed and already knowing the offense. My guess is the Giants have done that but he wants to see if he can get more in the open market.
The FA group is  
Kmed6000 : 3/15/2023 9:32 am : link
terrible. I'd sign 1 veteran and then look at the trade market/draft, although the draft isn't going to be instant gratification like a trade will be.
I think the Giants are interested in Slayton  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/15/2023 9:34 am : link
but wanted to let the market set his value. I think he wants to come back, we will see if its a team friendly deal.
Slayton has speed, but so do a lot of  
Simms11 : 3/15/2023 9:38 am : link
other receivers and actually this draft class is full of them. Slayton is not what the Giants would call dependable. He drops way too many critical passes. It’s one of the most important tasks of a receiver! He’s a mediocre talent that we found in the 5th round. I don’t think the Giants should invest in him unless he takes the vet minimum for a year. I think the Giants will be looking at a Vet WR to add depth and experience to the WR room. Someone that can be dependable and contribute to the room and get a few catches peach week. I think they’ll look to find their #1 now in the draft. Jeudy would be the exception, but I don’t think they’re parting with a #2 draft pick this year to get him now after the Waller trade.
mfjmfj  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2023 9:49 am : link
He was not critical to anything last year. He was usually a liability.

He had only two touchdowns, one in Week 7 and one in Week 10. He didn't score in the last 9 games of the season (7 regular season and 2 playoff games).

for those  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2023 9:52 am : link
who think I have some sort of stick up my ass about Slayton, I don't. He seems like a good guy and he didn't rock the boat last year even when buried on the depth chart.

But this is a bottom-line business. It's my same issue with Sterling Shepard. Great guy, but just not productive.

The Giants need to do better if they are going to be a serious playoff contender.
They aren't going to do better  
Dnew15 : 3/15/2023 10:20 am : link
by dabbling in this FA pool.

They gotta draft or trade if they are insisting on acquiring WR this year.

The better play is waiting it out - which tagging SB and trading for Waller might allow them to do...which is fine IMO.
Slay was our best outside deep receiver  
MeanBunny : 3/15/2023 10:21 am : link
So Joe and Dabs need to grab a big fast WR who can catch contested balls and to the outside. Rookie draft class is mediocre so that's a bummer. Shep is a slot receiver. Other guys are good route runners but slower by a mile than Slay. Slay is a fast SOB
i am the opposite of a slayton supporter but he's worth more than min  
Eric on Li : 3/15/2023 10:25 am : link
WR is a premium position and he is a mid to bottom tier starter. only 40% of the league starts (22/53) and they generally don't hit UFA and only get paid the minimum. slayton is a flawed player but someone is going to give him a contract in line with the projections, which are between 5-10m aav. i wouldnt want to pay him that any more than paying allen lazard 44m but that's how ufa goes.
RE: Slay was our best outside deep receiver  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2023 10:38 am : link
In comment 16064763 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
So Joe and Dabs need to grab a big fast WR who can catch contested balls and to the outside. Rookie draft class is mediocre so that's a bummer. Shep is a slot receiver. Other guys are good route runners but slower by a mile than Slay. Slay is a fast SOB


A deep outside receiver who scores twice?

How Giants fans have quickly forgotten Amani Toomer, Plaxico Burress, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, etc.

Hell, I'd take Chris Calloway over Slayton.
Are Hardman/Campbell  
Breeze_94 : 3/15/2023 10:39 am : link
Better than Slayton?

Hardman is smaller and hasn’t put up production in KC. Campbell misses more games than he plays and is a slot.

I feel like a trade (Jeudy, Davis) or retaining Slayton (and drafting a WR early) would be the best options.
RE: Are Hardman/Campbell  
Eric on Li : 3/15/2023 10:43 am : link
In comment 16064832 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Better than Slayton?

Hardman is smaller and hasn’t put up production in KC. Campbell misses more games than he plays and is a slot.

I feel like a trade (Jeudy, Davis) or retaining Slayton (and drafting a WR early) would be the best options.


looking backwards slayton has been less consistent than hardman but more explosive. any player movement is about projecting forward. there are reasons why both players were higher picks than slayton, and its that he had big problems dropping the ball at auburn same as he's had with nyg.

we need to remember this fo/staff was ready to cut him in september. he went on to have a more productive season than expected but i think it's safe to say he's not the type of player they are looking to add more of.
Why would you want him as depth?  
mittenedman : 3/15/2023 10:43 am : link
Everyone on the roster has a job. The depth WRs need to be strong special teams contributors.

Give me some good gunners backing up the top 3 WRs. I'm not sure a team can afford to keep a backup WR who doesn't play specials.
The sample size on Slayton is large enough  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/15/2023 11:14 am : link
To say, we can do better. Hes a JAG. Move on
RE: Lazard signed below…  
Section331 : 3/15/2023 11:22 am : link
In comment 16064542 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
expectations? That dude should be in jail for stealing with that contract!


This. Lazard is a nice piece, good hands and a willing blocker, but he’s not worth that contract. Jets better hope they get AR, or else what a waste of money.

On Slayton, we can agree that he both outplayed his draft slot, and is a flawed player we can easily move on from. If Schoen decides to bring him back, I can live with it, but I won’t be bothered if he doesn’t.
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