Saw a stat by a draft service and had to make this point. “The kid was the only four year starter which we ever graded that never gave up a sack in four year.” A lot of people are calling to eliminate pressure up the middle. You can’t do more than that. (I know his first three years were not against SEC competition). Just figured he could be a solution.
The good thing about this draft is that the Giants should get a really strong impact player at their spot, even if the WR and Corner talent is off the board that would represent value. It should mean that other really strong talents are available at 25, like Torrance, perhaps a Lukas Van Ness.
And my other dark horse, who isn't being talked about a lot as a first round value, but ILB Jack Campbell, Van Ness' Iowa teammate.
I posted last week I think that linebacker is risky in the first because of positional value, but the more I watch him, the more I love him. He and Okereke would be really formidable.
RD1 also includes an extra year of protection.
RD1 also includes an extra year of protection.
If he comes in and neutralizes the interior of the other NFC East defensive lines then he is worth it but I understand the reasoning of using the pick on someone at a more expensive in free agency position. But not if Torrence is clearly the better prospect.
But I suspect an All pro WR or Corner is better than all pro guard.
Must go with BPA.....positional value is a secondary consideration
WR were a issue but a lot of the issues were rooted in the OL against the better fronts. Couldn't run and it exposed the PB'ing issues. Neal was a big part of this as well.
A WR can help with this but so can being able to consistently get 4-5 yards on a earlier down in the run game.
Once teams have to greatly respect the run game the offense can take off. It's pick your poison time.
Look at Philadelphia and KC. They have Kelse, and Humphrey played great last year for the Chiefs.
Typically a good center calls the line pick ups, helps the other linemen, helps to control the A-B gaps, can be a lead blocker.
If you watch Kelse he makes the entire line better
So how do the Giants compete with those guys. Hmmm, I know, I know!! ... we gotta fix the offensive line.
Buffalo again could not run in the playoffs. Way down from in season totals and the backs ran 13 times for minimal yardage. The D had its own issues against the run but the poor run game put the O in very challenging positions as happens come playoff time. The GM in his end of season presser said they need to address the lines and its his fault.
Outside some very few occurrences the game always comes back to the trenches. This was true in any decade imv.
Now if you want to assemble a elite QB, upper tier WR's with a functional PB OL you have a chance. Good luck finding all three of those components and even then good luck avoiding one of those D's. Ask the Pats how that worked out against the Giants.
Lets look at our own history. The Giants went to 5 of 6 NFL championship games in the late 1950s-early 1960s with a state of the art (for the day) passing attack and a great defense. We won Super Bowls in the 1980s thanks almost exclusively to one of the great Ds in league history. We won the 7/11 Super Bowls thanks to a good QB (playing the best football of his career) throwing to really good 3-man receiver groups, backed by the NASCAR pass rush group operating on all cylinders.
So again I ask myself. How do we get back? Fix the OL! Really.
Which isn't to say that the OL doesn't need work. It does. Neal has to be better and if he's not the Giants need some kind of emergency back-up plan. And I'd love to have a stud C but at what price because no matter how good your IOL is they just don't win games. And its why no IOL has been drafted in the top since the mid-1970s.
The reality is you win games in the NFL throwing the ball or by disrupting the other guys ability to throw the ball.
Quote:
...is still important because of the amount of money that a 1st rd talent would cost in FA or a trade.
RD1 also includes an extra year of protection.
If he comes in and neutralizes the interior of the other NFC East defensive lines then he is worth it but I understand the reasoning of using the pick on someone at a more expensive in free agency position. But not if Torrence is clearly the better prospect.
No arguments on the D. That is part of the trenches. Agree.
2007/11 Great D agree.
Here is something to consider. Giants faced the highest scoring team in the league both times.
Rushing totals/carries
'07 Giants 27 91 3.5
Pats 16 45 2.8
'11 Giants 28 114 4.1
Pats 19 83 4.4
'07 the Pats could not run. Which played right into the Giants strength. Pass rush. Had the Pats been able to run I doubt the Giants win this game. Poor down/distance is trouble against that front.
'11 Giants had a enormous TOP advantage. Again, this played into the Giants strength. Fresh pass rushers.
Eli was great in both. But the OL was a big part of it. Plus ten in rushing was a big deal.
Was Brady not elite enough? No. He needed more help from his OL and run game imv.
The problem is, if you don't get a WR in the first, you may not get one until the 4th or 5th without painfully overdrafting someone.
Doesn't have to be Torrence, or in the first round, but they need to add more.
Carl: Just spit-balling here, but I would think that if the Giants do go into the draft targeting a WR they would likely start simply by keeping an eye on the top guys (for the sake of example) say Smith-Njigba, Q Johnson and Addison and if any come into range think about a move up. I would suspect they might also have a 2nd tier group - say Flowers and Hyatt - that once the top guys are gone they'd sit tight with as long as both were on the board and then act if one was selected. That's kind of how NFL teams operate when they are targeting a position generally.
The one other hing I could see them doing is looking at a DE like Keion White at #25 because its not clear a DE like that is going to be available late in the 2nd. If the Giants were to go that route I could almost certainly trading up in the 2nd too get the best WR available. I could also see them trading up in 2 if they got a WR in one for another WR or a DE like Adebawore. time will tell.
Finally, this guard prospect seems to have a good college resume as a pass blocker and the straightest line to the QB for a pass rusher is up the middle.
It's not about one game. It's about building a team that can win what Parcells called the "gauntlet". The 3 or four games in the playoffs culminating in the SB.
At some point you will need to operate outside your comfort zone.
At least on the offensive side, the OL and running game can help when you face one of those D's which is often that time of year.
Counter point. We have also multiple cases where a below average OL wasted the talents of a good QB with an above average skill group. In 2022 alone, we have the Chargers, the Rams, the Bears, and the Raiders underperforming partially because of the OL.
Finally, the Giants aren't going to get to the Mountain Top with just one more off season. You would have a better case about fitting the current dynamics of the NFL when they've better closed the overall talent gap
sign me up for that one
Look at Philadelphia and KC. They have Kelse, and Humphrey played great last year for the Chiefs.
Typically a good center calls the line pick ups, helps the other linemen, helps to control the A-B gaps, can be a lead blocker.
If you watch Kelse he makes the entire line better
He’s a guard.