“I've heard some buzz today about the #Giants connected to D.J. Chark and Mecole Hardman. We'll see if that has any legs. You'd expect them to explore all options on the market.”
that's an "other than that, how was the play mrs lincoln".
in 8 games hardman had 6 tds, which is almost the same total slayton has had in the last 3 years combined.
Well, Hardman did have Patrick Lavon Mahomes, II throwing to him.
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
RE: RE: RE: more reliable hands when your job is to catch is kind of important
that's an "other than that, how was the play mrs lincoln".
in 8 games hardman had 6 tds, which is almost the same total slayton has had in the last 3 years combined.
I love that we now have access to more information these days. 6 touchdowns, sure. Here are the yards on those scoring receptions in 2022.
2 yard pass
3 yard pass
8 yard pass
7 yard pass
In 2022,
8 yard td
8 yard td.
I'm not saying he's a bad player. He got a roster spot on a championship team. Reid knows offense. But I'm not in a hurry to undervalue a speed/big play threat for a part time possession guy.
hardman is just as fast if not faster than slayton, there are just more ways to get his hands in the ball because he's a more versatile player. whether it's runs, screens, or special teams.
as receivers his career ypc (13.8) isn't far off slayton's (15) so calling him a possession receiver isn't that accurate. there isn't a big gap in their explosiveness even though slayton's had higher volume.
they've each hit similar numbers of chunk plays:
slayton 38x 20+, 9x 40+
hardman 28x 20+, 9x 40+
hardman has 3 additional runs 20+. and 2 return tds.
The career YPC is 13.8. The last two years it's less than 11. Slayton has consistently been better.
Combine speed notwithstanding, does that *really* show up in games? The production doesn't really support it, nor does what the Chiefs actively do personnel-wise.
The speed got him drafted, and since then he hasn't really done anything with it since the rookie year and the Chiefs have been adding WRs left and right. His breakout year was supposed to come once the chiefs parted ways with Watkins, and it didn't. Then Hill left, and there were opportunities, and it didn't happen. Since then the Chiefs added Schuster, drafted Moore in round 2, added Valdez-Scantling and they're letting Hardman hit Free Agency in a down year for pass catchers. So they're not happy with their WRs either.
On top of that, he's small, which everyone already doesn't like about WRs for the Giants. So what's the trade off? Get smaller, less proven despite the physical gifts, but better hands. The real benefit to fans is simply that he's Not Slayton, which I suspect is the main focus.
I’m not even talking about cap at this point. I would rather draft a receiver in the 5th round from a roster spot perspective. That player is 4 years younger and there’s untapped potential.
We know what Hardman is at this point.
RE: RE: RE: more reliable hands when your job is to catch is kind of important
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
I think Eric may be Hardman’s agent lol (no offense Eric in LI, just messing around). We all have different ideas on the WR situation, hopefully Schoen makes the right call(s).
RE: RE: RE: RE: more reliable hands when your job is to catch is kind of important
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
Tryeek was an mvp candidate on pace to break Calvin Johnson’s record before tua got hurt so all good on the rethink.
Toney barely played offense in kc and didn’t have a single game with mahomes half as good as the Dallas game last year - and most of that was with glennon. His big play in the sb was a punt return.
RE: RE: RE: RE: more reliable hands when your job is to catch is kind of important
The career YPC is 13.8. The last two years it's less than 11. Slayton has consistently been better.
Combine speed notwithstanding, does that *really* show up in games? The production doesn't really support it, nor does what the Chiefs actively do personnel-wise.
The speed got him drafted, and since then he hasn't really done anything with it since the rookie year and the Chiefs have been adding WRs left and right. His breakout year was supposed to come once the chiefs parted ways with Watkins, and it didn't. Then Hill left, and there were opportunities, and it didn't happen. Since then the Chiefs added Schuster, drafted Moore in round 2, added Valdez-Scantling and they're letting Hardman hit Free Agency in a down year for pass catchers. So they're not happy with their WRs either.
On top of that, he's small, which everyone already doesn't like about WRs for the Giants. So what's the trade off? Get smaller, less proven despite the physical gifts, but better hands. The real benefit to fans is simply that he's Not Slayton, which I suspect is the main focus.
He was playing really well this year before he got hurt. To say his speed doesn’t show up on tape or that he wasn’t productive this past year just isn’t true. What is true is that it took him time to develop. Anyone who has watched him over the past few years can tell you that he’s a much better football player now than he was when he came into the league.
We don’t know yet if the Chiefs are letting him walk. They also have cap issues and other holes to fill. This team just let Tyreek Hill go. Does that mean Tyreek Hill isn’t good? They didn’t miss a beat either so it’s not like they have reason to fear losing a good WR.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: more reliable hands when your job is to catch is kind of important
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
I think Eric may be Hardman’s agent lol (no offense Eric in LI, just messing around). We all have different ideas on the WR situation, hopefully Schoen makes the right call(s).
The way the market has developed and with Waller added he makes the most sense. That wasn’t as much the case before yesterday. And before jakobi meyers deal came in lower than expected.
Mack Hollins = 2.5M
Chris Moore = Vet Min.
Deandre Carter = 2M
Hollins is an interesting name too. I'm not sure he's at any different of a price point than the guys we're discussing now though. I'm out on Deandre Carter, he's a slot guy and we've got that covered between Wan'Dale/Shep and what's likely available in the draft. I'd go for Berrios if we were to target a slot.
I wouldn't bother with any of these crappy and overpriced WRs. You draft three WRs in the draft and use free agency to fill the OL and DL. Get DBs in the draft as well.
I wouldn't bother with any of these crappy and overpriced WRs. You draft three WRs in the draft and use free agency to fill the OL and DL. Get DBs in the draft as well.
We have 4 picks on day 1 and 2. After that you are looking at long shots. We cannot draft 3 WRs across day 1 and 2. A WR or two needs to be signed. None of these guys are getting big long term dollars, it’ll be low risk.
For any of these marginal FA receivers. A good WR will be there in the first and second round. Plus cap casualties will happen down the line, that we can pick up a fraction of the price.
I wouldn't bother with any of these crappy and overpriced WRs. You draft three WRs in the draft and use free agency to fill the OL and DL. Get DBs in the draft as well.
NYG needs bodies...and with the holes on the roster i think 2 WRs in the draft are possible, but not 3.
around here. Shepard has been the definition of mediocre when healthy and always injured, but he's often talked about as a decent "starter" and a leader simply because he has good hands and refuses to retire after so many injuries I guess?
Slayton has his valleys for sure, but he would be the only receiver capable of making explosive chunk plays right now. If I had to pick to between the two, I'm taking Slayton.
Interesting stat: in spite of the drops Slayton had a career high 64.8% catch percentage last year. Pretty good for a 15 YPC guy. Chark never had more than 61.9% (his pro bowl year) and has been pretty awful in the three years since. Registered 5 drops to Slayton's 7 in 2022.
I couldn’t care less about Slayton’s catch percentage.
Well Shep is basically on an incentivized vet min non-guaranteed contract while I assume Slayton will get some money and guarantees. In a vacuum it's a slamdunk Slayton over Shep this year for sure but there's different commitments required.
Well Shep is basically on an incentivized vet min non-guaranteed contract while I assume Slayton will get some money and guarantees. In a vacuum it's a slamdunk Slayton over Shep this year for sure but there's different commitments required.
Will Shep even make it out of camp and onto the team?
Well Shep is basically on an incentivized vet min non-guaranteed contract while I assume Slayton will get some money and guarantees. In a vacuum it's a slamdunk Slayton over Shep this year for sure but there's different commitments required.
Will Shep even make it out of camp and onto the team?
Probably not. If he does, it's if he's healthy and Wan'Dale is on the PUP to start. Hard to say at this point but he's very far from a lock.
Well Shep is basically on an incentivized vet min non-guaranteed contract while I assume Slayton will get some money and guarantees. In a vacuum it's a slamdunk Slayton over Shep this year for sure but there's different commitments required.
Will Shep even make it out of camp and onto the team?
Probably not. If he does, it's if he's healthy and Wan'Dale is on the PUP to start. Hard to say at this point but he's very far from a lock.
True
slayton is like engram, randle, and larry donnell before him
he can put up numbers but for the most part they have been empty because the mistakes he makes help opposing teams as much as his production helps his team.
the key thing with slayton is that his weakness, drops, has been an issue that has plagued him going back to college. it's why he fell to the 6th round in the first place. his final year at auburn he had 8 drops and 35 catches in 72 targets. for every 4 catches he made he had 1 drop. that is not sustainable.
this past year he had 8 drops against 51 catches in 83 targets.
in 2021 he had 6 drops against 26 catches in 55 targets.
he has literally had the worst drop% in football each of the last 2 years.
it's hard to see any hope slayton can correct his drop issues because it's pretty consistently who he has been dating back to college. and because it literally showed up at the most important time last year in the WC game.
“ FA WR DJ Chark is visiting the #Panthers tomorrow, a source tells @theScore.
In the six games he saw five or more targets last season, the former LSU standout averaged nearly 70 yards per game with three total TDs for the #Lions. Really good player who’s finally healthy as well.”
but it’s pretty clear the FO has soured on him. They’ve made no effort to resign him. He’s not going to be a Giant. The question is, who do they bring in? Both Hardman and Chark have warts, Mecole with inconsistency, DJ with drops. Personally, I’d take a flyer on Chark. 6’4 200 and fast as hell. Get him in front of the juggs machine and see what he can do. Neither contract will prevent the Giants from moving on.
this thread moot. I’ve got to honk it’s unlikely they’ll bring in another WR unless it’s a top level guy (Jeudy, Aiyuk, etc, neither of which I expect to happen).
but it’s pretty clear the FO has soured on him. They’ve made no effort to resign him. He’s not going to be a Giant. The question is, who do they bring in? Both Hardman and Chark have warts, Mecole with inconsistency, DJ with drops. Personally, I’d take a flyer on Chark. 6’4 200 and fast as hell. Get him in front of the juggs machine and see what he can do. Neither contract will prevent the Giants from moving on.
Quote:
that's an "other than that, how was the play mrs lincoln".
in 8 games hardman had 6 tds, which is almost the same total slayton has had in the last 3 years combined.
Well, Hardman did have Patrick Lavon Mahomes, II throwing to him.
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
Quote:
In comment 16065920 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
that's an "other than that, how was the play mrs lincoln".
in 8 games hardman had 6 tds, which is almost the same total slayton has had in the last 3 years combined.
I love that we now have access to more information these days. 6 touchdowns, sure. Here are the yards on those scoring receptions in 2022.
2 yard pass
3 yard pass
8 yard pass
7 yard pass
In 2022,
8 yard td
8 yard td.
I'm not saying he's a bad player. He got a roster spot on a championship team. Reid knows offense. But I'm not in a hurry to undervalue a speed/big play threat for a part time possession guy.
hardman is just as fast if not faster than slayton, there are just more ways to get his hands in the ball because he's a more versatile player. whether it's runs, screens, or special teams.
as receivers his career ypc (13.8) isn't far off slayton's (15) so calling him a possession receiver isn't that accurate. there isn't a big gap in their explosiveness even though slayton's had higher volume.
they've each hit similar numbers of chunk plays:
slayton 38x 20+, 9x 40+
hardman 28x 20+, 9x 40+
hardman has 3 additional runs 20+. and 2 return tds.
The career YPC is 13.8. The last two years it's less than 11. Slayton has consistently been better.
Combine speed notwithstanding, does that *really* show up in games? The production doesn't really support it, nor does what the Chiefs actively do personnel-wise.
The speed got him drafted, and since then he hasn't really done anything with it since the rookie year and the Chiefs have been adding WRs left and right. His breakout year was supposed to come once the chiefs parted ways with Watkins, and it didn't. Then Hill left, and there were opportunities, and it didn't happen. Since then the Chiefs added Schuster, drafted Moore in round 2, added Valdez-Scantling and they're letting Hardman hit Free Agency in a down year for pass catchers. So they're not happy with their WRs either.
On top of that, he's small, which everyone already doesn't like about WRs for the Giants. So what's the trade off? Get smaller, less proven despite the physical gifts, but better hands. The real benefit to fans is simply that he's Not Slayton, which I suspect is the main focus.
Chris Moore = Vet Min.
Deandre Carter = 2M
We know what Hardman is at this point.
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
Chris Moore = Vet Min.
Deandre Carter = 2M
Mack Hollins is interesting at a low price point. He basically outplayed Renfrow in McDaniels offense.
Quote:
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
I think Eric may be Hardman’s agent lol (no offense Eric in LI, just messing around). We all have different ideas on the WR situation, hopefully Schoen makes the right call(s).
Quote:
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
Tryeek was an mvp candidate on pace to break Calvin Johnson’s record before tua got hurt so all good on the rethink.
Toney barely played offense in kc and didn’t have a single game with mahomes half as good as the Dallas game last year - and most of that was with glennon. His big play in the sb was a punt return.
The career YPC is 13.8. The last two years it's less than 11. Slayton has consistently been better.
Combine speed notwithstanding, does that *really* show up in games? The production doesn't really support it, nor does what the Chiefs actively do personnel-wise.
The speed got him drafted, and since then he hasn't really done anything with it since the rookie year and the Chiefs have been adding WRs left and right. His breakout year was supposed to come once the chiefs parted ways with Watkins, and it didn't. Then Hill left, and there were opportunities, and it didn't happen. Since then the Chiefs added Schuster, drafted Moore in round 2, added Valdez-Scantling and they're letting Hardman hit Free Agency in a down year for pass catchers. So they're not happy with their WRs either.
On top of that, he's small, which everyone already doesn't like about WRs for the Giants. So what's the trade off? Get smaller, less proven despite the physical gifts, but better hands. The real benefit to fans is simply that he's Not Slayton, which I suspect is the main focus.
He was playing really well this year before he got hurt. To say his speed doesn’t show up on tape or that he wasn’t productive this past year just isn’t true. What is true is that it took him time to develop. Anyone who has watched him over the past few years can tell you that he’s a much better football player now than he was when he came into the league.
We don’t know yet if the Chiefs are letting him walk. They also have cap issues and other holes to fill. This team just let Tyreek Hill go. Does that mean Tyreek Hill isn’t good? They didn’t miss a beat either so it’s not like they have reason to fear losing a good WR.
Quote:
In comment 16065984 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Mvs and jjss each had seasons around their lowest td totals as pros. Mahomes doesn’t instantly mean players stats get inflated. Tyreek went to Miami and had his best year with Tua and a bunch of backups.
There is a reason hardman is projected to make a lot more than slayton in pretty much all the salary projections.
I'm not saying Slayton is > Hardman. I'm suggesting you can't dismiss the Mahomes factor. Toney is looking more and more interesting now that he's in the same huddle as Mahomes.
Schuster found a second career wind in KC. And MVS had a career high in catches.
And you may want to re-think that comment about Hill having his best year in Miami. There were years in KC where Hill was catching 15 TD passes.
I think Eric may be Hardman’s agent lol (no offense Eric in LI, just messing around). We all have different ideas on the WR situation, hopefully Schoen makes the right call(s).
The way the market has developed and with Waller added he makes the most sense. That wasn’t as much the case before yesterday. And before jakobi meyers deal came in lower than expected.
Chris Moore = Vet Min.
Deandre Carter = 2M
Hollins is an interesting name too. I'm not sure he's at any different of a price point than the guys we're discussing now though. I'm out on Deandre Carter, he's a slot guy and we've got that covered between Wan'Dale/Shep and what's likely available in the draft. I'd go for Berrios if we were to target a slot.
We have 4 picks on day 1 and 2. After that you are looking at long shots. We cannot draft 3 WRs across day 1 and 2. A WR or two needs to be signed. None of these guys are getting big long term dollars, it’ll be low risk.
NYG needs bodies...and with the holes on the roster i think 2 WRs in the draft are possible, but not 3.
Bingo!
Slayton has his valleys for sure, but he would be the only receiver capable of making explosive chunk plays right now. If I had to pick to between the two, I'm taking Slayton.
Interesting stat: in spite of the drops Slayton had a career high 64.8% catch percentage last year. Pretty good for a 15 YPC guy. Chark never had more than 61.9% (his pro bowl year) and has been pretty awful in the three years since. Registered 5 drops to Slayton's 7 in 2022.
Will Shep even make it out of camp and onto the team?
Quote:
Well Shep is basically on an incentivized vet min non-guaranteed contract while I assume Slayton will get some money and guarantees. In a vacuum it's a slamdunk Slayton over Shep this year for sure but there's different commitments required.
Will Shep even make it out of camp and onto the team?
Probably not. If he does, it's if he's healthy and Wan'Dale is on the PUP to start. Hard to say at this point but he's very far from a lock.
Quote:
In comment 16066658 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Well Shep is basically on an incentivized vet min non-guaranteed contract while I assume Slayton will get some money and guarantees. In a vacuum it's a slamdunk Slayton over Shep this year for sure but there's different commitments required.
Will Shep even make it out of camp and onto the team?
Probably not. If he does, it's if he's healthy and Wan'Dale is on the PUP to start. Hard to say at this point but he's very far from a lock.
True
the key thing with slayton is that his weakness, drops, has been an issue that has plagued him going back to college. it's why he fell to the 6th round in the first place. his final year at auburn he had 8 drops and 35 catches in 72 targets. for every 4 catches he made he had 1 drop. that is not sustainable.
this past year he had 8 drops against 51 catches in 83 targets.
in 2021 he had 6 drops against 26 catches in 55 targets.
he has literally had the worst drop% in football each of the last 2 years.
it's hard to see any hope slayton can correct his drop issues because it's pretty consistently who he has been dating back to college. and because it literally showed up at the most important time last year in the WC game.
In the six games he saw five or more targets last season, the former LSU standout averaged nearly 70 yards per game with three total TDs for the #Lions. Really good player who’s finally healthy as well.”
Whoops