If the Giants had a great offensive line, this group of WR would still be bottom of the league and ineffective in games that that matter against top end defenses. You don't have to go very far to see how much Tom Coughlin valued talented WRs. It was critical to his idea of a winning football program.
A pocket to step up into would certainly help the QB. With a pocket it would have certainly helped Solder who was always getting run around if the QB can step up it gives the tackle the ability to just push him wide making his job easier. The running game also improves shorter down and distance for 1st downs. Games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage but we do need an upgrade at WR as well.
I do like the Packer approach of not drafting WR in the first round. It is much harder finding great big people. I think that is what George Young would say.
right now, you have Hodgins and zilch . Everyone else
Is either coming off injury or a PS player. They need more then 1 receiver to fill out the room. Can’t count on Shep, Wan dale or Johnson. James and Slayton are FA. They don’t even have healthy bodies to line up right now.
At least there are guys to develop on the OL that could be solutions. Look at the roster. There’s no comparison.
is thought of for what it does is pass protection. What they are able to in the run game is just as important imv.
TC's offense was built on being balanced and thrived by putting defenses in a dilemma. Eli often changed the play based on what the D was doing. They did have the WR's as well. They had the OL that could play either way.
2011 was bit different but that was a special group of skill guys, still a functional PB Oline and a HOF QB who had a lot of experience. Tall order to expect that from Jones at this point imv and with how much they would need on the outside and still have a good PB Oline.....
I think they should go BPA. Whether its a OL, DE, Corner, WR in the first two picks.
They have Waller. So adding a OL and then TE (which is very deep this year) will give the offense enough to be successful imv.
otherwise we are just scheming players open, whether the OL is better or not. We need Wandale back, and need to add a #1 guy from the draft or FA. Combined with Waller, Hodgins, and Bellinger that would be much improved.
I agree. I wouldn't be shocked if they went with OT Cody Mauch in
the first round. He plays every position on the offensive line, and it sure would be good to have someone who can start on the interior, or play tackle in a pinch in case of injury.
As of right now our WRs are worse now than they were at the end of the
season, if that's even possible. Schoen has to be giving this a serious look right now. I have no idea where from or who but it's not pretty. And I don't see even getting a WR at pick 25 would change that much unless there's an additional upgrade. Waller can help but....,
Even a fast WR can't get downfield if the QB doesn't have time to throw. Plus, I don't want to see Jones getting battered by carrying the ball 15 times a game either. No question WR needs an upgrade, but the OL was not good or even acceptable at pass blocking.
RE: My point is that with so many other needs besides WRs, we don't have
the resources to turn the WR group around in one year. Improving the Oline helps them all and also gives DJ a bit more protection.
I don't even disagree with your point, Marty. Effective OL is quickly becoming as valuable a commodity as WRs. Look at the contracts guards are signing. Never before seen financial commits to guys you would not expect.
NO! I tried to make the case on another thread but there is very little evidence at all that better pass-blocking will help your receivers get open. There is plenty of evidence out there though having better receivers WILL help your OL. Even if the Giants get a couple of really good OL if they don't do something at WR opposing teams are still going to just bring 9-10-even 11 guys into the box, crowd the LOS and just dare the giants to beat them over the top. That means another year of Saquon slamming into the line hoping to not have to start dodging run blitzing LBs before he even gets to the LOS.
Get yourself a couple of legit deep threats though and other teams will be almost forced to back off at least a couple of safeties to protect over the top. And that's going to open things undeeneath for both the run game as well as receivers like Wan'Dale, Shep and Bellingham, not to mention Saquon. Indeed, get a little speed on the outside and combine it with the running of Saquon and Jones and the potential of an underneath receiver like Wan'Dale and you'll start keeping opposing DCs up at night wondering what they are going to have to stop.
Wouldn't improving the OL plus a good blocking TE make Marty in Albany
NO! I tried to make the case on another thread but there is very little evidence at all that better pass-blocking will help your receivers get open. There is plenty of evidence out there though having better receivers WILL help your OL. Even if the Giants get a couple of really good OL if they don't do something at WR opposing teams are still going to just bring 9-10-even 11 guys into the box, crowd the LOS and just dare the giants to beat them over the top. That means another year of Saquon slamming into the line hoping to not have to start dodging run blitzing LBs before he even gets to the LOS.
Get yourself a couple of legit deep threats though and other teams will be almost forced to back off at least a couple of safeties to protect over the top. And that's going to open things undeeneath for both the run game as well as receivers like Wan'Dale, Shep and Bellingham, not to mention Saquon. Indeed, get a little speed on the outside and combine it with the running of Saquon and Jones and the potential of an underneath receiver like Wan'Dale and you'll start keeping opposing DCs up at night wondering what they are going to have to stop.
100% agreed. The wide receivers we had couldn't get seperation if they had 5 minutes to run around. This negates an all pro offensive line. If you have a wide receiver that can get seperation and is a threat that defenses have to be aware of, then it helps everyone. It holds the linebackers, it opens up underneath routes and it opens up the running game. If defenses have to play honest, it's less pressure on an offensive line and presents more passing options.
By all means, upgrade the offensive line where you can, but getting talented wide receivers will have a major effect on the whole offense.
RE: My point is that with so many other needs besides WRs, we don't have
"blocking" TE. If you are that worried about the Oline, put an extra tackle out there. You cannot waste roster space with a pseudo TE. Bellinger was learning to block toward the end. Get some more weight on him, only 10 lbs.
But Lord, this isn't 1985.
RE: My point is that with so many other needs besides WRs, we don't have
the resources to turn the WR group around in one year. Improving the Oline helps them all and also gives DJ a bit more protection.
Agree 100%
I don't understand why the Giants are ignoring a position that is key to success?! Just take a good look at the teams that went far in the playoffs, and then take a look at the two teams in the Super Bowl. They both had one thing in common and that was great offensive lines. IF you think about it, it was the one thing that really stood out in this SB! A great Oline will only make DJ even better. If you even think about it, not until the Joe Schoen came in and improved the Oline a bit, that DJ started to improve and Barkley came back and had a great year! The Giants must continue to improve the Oline. I've said this so many times and I'm a firm believer in it. Defense wins Championships, but the Oline gets you there..
Plus Developing players like Bredeson, etc. I think we have to give these guys a chance to grow into the roles. Let the draft play out, odds are we take at least one OL, likely more.
RE: RE: My point is that with so many other needs besides WRs, we don't have
the resources to turn the WR group around in one year. Improving the Oline helps them all and also gives DJ a bit more protection.
Agree 100%
I don't understand why the Giants are ignoring a position that is key to success?! Just take a good look at the teams that went far in the playoffs, and then take a look at the two teams in the Super Bowl. They both had one thing in common and that was great offensive lines. IF you think about it, it was the one thing that really stood out in this SB! A great Oline will only make DJ even better. If you even think about it, not until the Joe Schoen came in and improved the Oline a bit, that DJ started to improve and Barkley came back and had a great year! The Giants must continue to improve the Oline. I've said this so many times and I'm a firm believer in it. Defense wins Championships, but the Oline gets you there..
A case can also be made that the eagles offense really took off when they acquired aj brown. They also have davonta Smith and a really good tight end in goedert.
The chiefs have a future hall of fame tight end in kelce that makes a significant difference. They also have scantling and juju Schuster put up over 900 yards receiving.
potentially two. So I’ll go for adding a star WR and hopefully at least a modest upgrade on the line.
If you’re referring to Neal as a pintetial star I suggest you rewatch last season. He was atrocious and a big reason why we can the type of offense we did. He single handily held back the passing game as well as the crappy skill guys we had. Imo neal has to kick inside and we should draft a right tackle this draft
potentially two. So I’ll go for adding a star WR and hopefully at least a modest upgrade on the line.
If you’re referring to Neal as a pintetial star I suggest you rewatch last season. He was atrocious and a big reason why we can the type of offense we did. He single handily held back the passing game as well as the crappy skill guys we had. Imo neal has to kick inside and we should draft a right tackle this draft
Yes, I was referring to Neal, and if you don’t think he has the POTENTIAL, then perhaps you should rewatch his college career. Ezeuda also showed promise last year. Yes, the line needs to improve, but unlike WR, there’s a possibility that a good part of the OL solution is already on the team.
potentially two. So I’ll go for adding a star WR and hopefully at least a modest upgrade on the line.
If you’re referring to Neal as a pintetial star I suggest you rewatch last season. He was atrocious and a big reason why we can the type of offense we did. He single handily held back the passing game as well as the crappy skill guys we had. Imo neal has to kick inside and we should draft a right tackle this draft
Yes, I was referring to Neal, and if you don’t think he has the POTENTIAL, then perhaps you should rewatch his college career. Ezeuda also showed promise last year. Yes, the line needs to improve, but unlike WR, there’s a possibility that a good part of the OL solution is already on the team.
Agree with this. Although I'd still like a C either through FA or the draft.
In the draft, focus on bringing in a 1A WR or #2 (don't think there's a true #1 at #25) and C if we don't get one in FA. Then, it's the Defense. CB, if Love leaves we'll need a S, and ILB and DT. Could also use a OLB that better aligns with Wink's D than Ojulari.
has touched on this recently. As awesome as it is to have a dominant OL, if you look at the championship teams - including the NYG’s - it’s more about WR play than a great OL.
So no-a great OL won’t solve for that. But great WRs can make a pedestrian OL look better, and can give you a shot at a ring.
Even slightly. Any improvement in the OL is welcome and of course helps... but that said we need a #1 WR. We don't have one. Seems many people get upset when people put down Slayton, but the fact of the matter is yeah... Great guy, great teammate, mediocre WR. Hodgins is a great utility WR but we absolutely need a #1 WR that defenses need to account for.
There is not a single WR on the NYG 2022 or 2023 roster that scares(d) anyone
Except for Moss New England never had one that scared anyone. If you don't have a wr1 you try and get as many potential 2s as you can. Line up and find the guy with the mismatch.
Not everything is binary
I do like the Packer approach of not drafting WR in the first round. It is much harder finding great big people. I think that is what George Young would say.
Actually not a one year turnaround. It started with Robinson, then Hodgins.
Is either coming off injury or a PS player. They need more then 1 receiver to fill out the room. Can’t count on Shep, Wan dale or Johnson. James and Slayton are FA. They don’t even have healthy bodies to line up right now.
At least there are guys to develop on the OL that could be solutions. Look at the roster. There’s no comparison.
TC's offense was built on being balanced and thrived by putting defenses in a dilemma. Eli often changed the play based on what the D was doing. They did have the WR's as well. They had the OL that could play either way.
2011 was bit different but that was a special group of skill guys, still a functional PB Oline and a HOF QB who had a lot of experience. Tall order to expect that from Jones at this point imv and with how much they would need on the outside and still have a good PB Oline.....
I think they should go BPA. Whether its a OL, DE, Corner, WR in the first two picks.
They have Waller. So adding a OL and then TE (which is very deep this year) will give the offense enough to be successful imv.
They can tackle WR more in the future as needed.
I don't even disagree with your point, Marty. Effective OL is quickly becoming as valuable a commodity as WRs. Look at the contracts guards are signing. Never before seen financial commits to guys you would not expect.
Get yourself a couple of legit deep threats though and other teams will be almost forced to back off at least a couple of safeties to protect over the top. And that's going to open things undeeneath for both the run game as well as receivers like Wan'Dale, Shep and Bellingham, not to mention Saquon. Indeed, get a little speed on the outside and combine it with the running of Saquon and Jones and the potential of an underneath receiver like Wan'Dale and you'll start keeping opposing DCs up at night wondering what they are going to have to stop.
Get yourself a couple of legit deep threats though and other teams will be almost forced to back off at least a couple of safeties to protect over the top. And that's going to open things undeeneath for both the run game as well as receivers like Wan'Dale, Shep and Bellingham, not to mention Saquon. Indeed, get a little speed on the outside and combine it with the running of Saquon and Jones and the potential of an underneath receiver like Wan'Dale and you'll start keeping opposing DCs up at night wondering what they are going to have to stop.
100% agreed. The wide receivers we had couldn't get seperation if they had 5 minutes to run around. This negates an all pro offensive line. If you have a wide receiver that can get seperation and is a threat that defenses have to be aware of, then it helps everyone. It holds the linebackers, it opens up underneath routes and it opens up the running game. If defenses have to play honest, it's less pressure on an offensive line and presents more passing options.
By all means, upgrade the offensive line where you can, but getting talented wide receivers will have a major effect on the whole offense.
Thus the thrust to have 2 good TE while building the WR corps.
And I’m sure a C will be in the mix with hope Ezeudu and Neal make large 2 nd year strides.
But Lord, this isn't 1985.
Agree 100%
I don't understand why the Giants are ignoring a position that is key to success?! Just take a good look at the teams that went far in the playoffs, and then take a look at the two teams in the Super Bowl. They both had one thing in common and that was great offensive lines. IF you think about it, it was the one thing that really stood out in this SB! A great Oline will only make DJ even better. If you even think about it, not until the Joe Schoen came in and improved the Oline a bit, that DJ started to improve and Barkley came back and had a great year! The Giants must continue to improve the Oline. I've said this so many times and I'm a firm believer in it. Defense wins Championships, but the Oline gets you there..
LG - Ezeudu
Plus Glowinski, who's solid if not spectacular.
Plus Developing players like Bredeson, etc. I think we have to give these guys a chance to grow into the roles. Let the draft play out, odds are we take at least one OL, likely more.
Quote:
the resources to turn the WR group around in one year. Improving the Oline helps them all and also gives DJ a bit more protection.
Agree 100%
I don't understand why the Giants are ignoring a position that is key to success?! Just take a good look at the teams that went far in the playoffs, and then take a look at the two teams in the Super Bowl. They both had one thing in common and that was great offensive lines. IF you think about it, it was the one thing that really stood out in this SB! A great Oline will only make DJ even better. If you even think about it, not until the Joe Schoen came in and improved the Oline a bit, that DJ started to improve and Barkley came back and had a great year! The Giants must continue to improve the Oline. I've said this so many times and I'm a firm believer in it. Defense wins Championships, but the Oline gets you there..
A case can also be made that the eagles offense really took off when they acquired aj brown. They also have davonta Smith and a really good tight end in goedert.
The chiefs have a future hall of fame tight end in kelce that makes a significant difference. They also have scantling and juju Schuster put up over 900 yards receiving.
If you’re referring to Neal as a pintetial star I suggest you rewatch last season. He was atrocious and a big reason why we can the type of offense we did. He single handily held back the passing game as well as the crappy skill guys we had. Imo neal has to kick inside and we should draft a right tackle this draft
Bam!
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potentially two. So I’ll go for adding a star WR and hopefully at least a modest upgrade on the line.
If you’re referring to Neal as a pintetial star I suggest you rewatch last season. He was atrocious and a big reason why we can the type of offense we did. He single handily held back the passing game as well as the crappy skill guys we had. Imo neal has to kick inside and we should draft a right tackle this draft
Yes, I was referring to Neal, and if you don’t think he has the POTENTIAL, then perhaps you should rewatch his college career. Ezeuda also showed promise last year. Yes, the line needs to improve, but unlike WR, there’s a possibility that a good part of the OL solution is already on the team.
Quote:
In comment 16065933 Pepe LePugh said:
Quote:
potentially two. So I’ll go for adding a star WR and hopefully at least a modest upgrade on the line.
If you’re referring to Neal as a pintetial star I suggest you rewatch last season. He was atrocious and a big reason why we can the type of offense we did. He single handily held back the passing game as well as the crappy skill guys we had. Imo neal has to kick inside and we should draft a right tackle this draft
Yes, I was referring to Neal, and if you don’t think he has the POTENTIAL, then perhaps you should rewatch his college career. Ezeuda also showed promise last year. Yes, the line needs to improve, but unlike WR, there’s a possibility that a good part of the OL solution is already on the team.
Agree with this. Although I'd still like a C either through FA or the draft.
In the draft, focus on bringing in a 1A WR or #2 (don't think there's a true #1 at #25) and C if we don't get one in FA. Then, it's the Defense. CB, if Love leaves we'll need a S, and ILB and DT. Could also use a OLB that better aligns with Wink's D than Ojulari.
Basically, it's the Baltimore model from 2000.
So no-a great OL won’t solve for that. But great WRs can make a pedestrian OL look better, and can give you a shot at a ring.
Except for Moss New England never had one that scared anyone. If you don't have a wr1 you try and get as many potential 2s as you can. Line up and find the guy with the mismatch.