Slayton coming back

In comment 16067733 christian said:

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That PFF ratio is subjectivity on top of subjectivity. Both drops and catchable are subjective stats. Then layer on the low sample size, and in my line of work, we'd reject that as a viable data point. I think the more valuable measurement is catch rate over his career. On 300 career targets, it's pretty safe to say he is what he is. A guy who catches the ball about 55% of the time, which is not a great number. But conversely, he averages 15 YPC, which makes up for it. And it puts him in the neighborhood of a player like Michael Gallup in the YPC x catch rate math. For every 10 balls Slayton gets you 82.5 yards. The bigger issue for Slayton is he's not the kind of guy who can create 10 opportunities a game for himself. And that's why he's getting paid 6M a year and Gallup gets 11.5M.

You don't watch football though.

In comment 16067400 Chris684 said:

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Anyone who thought last year’s playoff run and playoff win were fun should recognize Slayton was a big part of it. He stepped up big in the Green Bay game after Wandale and Shep got hurt and before Hodgins got here. Then later on, along with Hodgins he was a big factor down the stretch. He’s not a 1 or 2 but I think he’s a decent 3 or 4 WR, hard worker, and a guy who didn’t quit after he was basically told he was on borrowed time on the roster last season. Slayton earned this and I’m glad to see him remain on the team.

+1 Could not agree more.

In comment 16067733 christian said:

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That PFF ratio is subjectivity on top of subjectivity. Both drops and catchable are subjective stats. Then layer on the low sample size, and in my line of work, we'd reject that as a viable data point. I think the more valuable measurement is catch rate over his career. On 300 career targets, it's pretty safe to say he is what he is. A guy who catches the ball about 55% of the time, which is not a great number. But conversely, he averages 15 YPC, which makes up for it. And it puts him in the neighborhood of a player like Michael Gallup in the YPC x catch rate math. For every 10 balls Slayton gets you 82.5 yards. The bigger issue for Slayton is he's not the kind of guy who can create 10 opportunities a game for himself. And that's why he's getting paid 6M a year and Gallup gets 11.5M.

i guess when you cant argue the outcome argue the stat? nevermind that every player is subject to the same subjectiveness.

you've beat this horse dead since midseason that slayton doesn't have bad hands despite all evidence to the contrary dating back to college, raw drops, drop rates, catch%, 30th percentile next gen stats catch rating, so im out of ways to say your wrong but im going to try 1 last stat. im not 100% sure it's accurate because it's a little subjective, but im pretty sure on wild card weekend he led the league in tears and teamates coming over to console him after dropping a wide open pass that almost ended their season. i hope he somehow rediscovers his rookie year form but i dont think id have bet 12m+ on it.

I’ve watched a ton of football for the past 20 years or so.

Parris Campbell was essentially irrelevant as a football player until last season where he played well.

Slayton has essentially a full seasons worth of production over Campbell and they’ve been in the league the same amount of years.

Could care less about talent. Campbell didn’t live up to his, Slayton has played above his talent level if you ask me.

have a very competent receiving corps as a reasonable cost next year and come back to all the nay nayers here. There was dog shit for that area last year and still won a playoff game...

In comment 16067741 ryanmkeane said:

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I’d rather have Slayton at 6M then Lazard or Gallup at 11

it is always possible to cherry pick a worse contract. but you are right dallas extending gallup for 5 years on a torn acl was a lot worse than slayton on a 2 year deal.

In comment 16067761 ryanmkeane said:

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I’ve watched a ton of football for the past 20 years or so. Parris Campbell was essentially irrelevant as a football player until last season where he played well. Slayton has essentially a full seasons worth of production over Campbell and they’ve been in the league the same amount of years. Could care less about talent. Campbell didn’t live up to his, Slayton has played above his talent level if you ask me.

Thats fair- and I was always on the Daniel jones let it ride train. But watching both players its clear who can and is the better player

if julian love gets a similar 6-7m aav elsewhere would you still have preferred bringing back slayton?

In comment 16067767 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16067741 ryanmkeane said: Quote: I’d rather have Slayton at 6M then Lazard or Gallup at 11 it is always possible to cherry pick a worse contract. but you are right dallas extending gallup for 5 years on a torn acl was a lot worse than slayton on a 2 year deal.

Player contract comps are a thing that actually occurs in the real life NFL. It's not cherry picking when both agents and GMs use it. Slayton has drop issues, he also profiles the speed that Schoen is looking for and has been the Giants big play threat as a WR for the better part of three seasons. Despite what Sunday couch watchers think, NFL GMs place actual dollar values on this. Team admins also value the hard work a player puts in. He received a market value contract.

Reasons:
1. Slayton has been very durable (dependable) in his first 4 seasons.
2. Has the speed that opens up field for our other receivers.
3. Has only lost one fumble in 59 games.
4. Scored 15 td’s so far (Amani had 12 td’s his first 4 seasons).
5. Has developed great chemistry with Dimes.
6. Love the fact that he came to his QB defense when Brisker and the snarling jackals went after Daniel and his contract.
7. His reaction after that drop vs. Vikes in playoffs shows he wants to win and thought he had let his team down (super that Coach D. went right over to him and told him to keep chin up).
8. Did not mope when not playing and was ready when his number was called.
So really happy he’s is coming back.

I guess was shopping hungry.

It really is a terrible WR room and I don’t think we are looking at any other FA unless one shakes loose.

Looking more and more like WR in the 1st. I can’t imagine with all the talk about how bad our WRs were that Paris Campbell is the only change instead of James. I really thought Campbell was to replace Slayton. I know we got Waller but his injury history and Campbells injury history kind of seems like a lot of gambling. Odds are not in favor of either playing a full season, closer to 8 games.

In comment 16067759 Eric on Li said:

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The bigger issue for Slayton is he's not the kind of guy who can create 10 opportunities a game for himself. And that's why he's getting paid 6M a year and Gallup gets 11.5M. i guess when you cant argue the outcome argue the stat? nevermind that every player is subject to the same subjectiveness. you've beat this horse dead since midseason that slayton doesn't have bad hands despite all evidence to the contrary dating back to college, raw drops, drop rates, catch%, 30th percentile next gen stats catch rating, so im out of ways to say your wrong but im going to try 1 last stat. im not 100% sure it's accurate because it's a little subjective, but im pretty sure on wild card weekend he led the league in tears and teamates coming over to console him after dropping a wide open pass that almost ended their season. i hope he somehow rediscovers his rookie year form but i dont think id have bet 12m+ on it.

1) A subjective ratio applied to all players is still an incomplete subjective ratio.

2) I've never said he didn't have bad hands. My view has always been his catch rate and YPC make up for his drops. And his catch rate markedly improved this season, in this system. To the tune of +20 percentage points.

3) Hey you're the guy who wanted to bet 14M and a pick on Cortland Sutton, who rated 10 points lower this year in that same Next Gen analysis, with a 57% career catch rate. So next time I need parlay advice, you're not my guy.

In comment 16067794 christian said:

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In comment 16067759 Eric on Li said: Quote: The bigger issue for Slayton is he's not the kind of guy who can create 10 opportunities a game for himself. And that's why he's getting paid 6M a year and Gallup gets 11.5M. i guess when you cant argue the outcome argue the stat? nevermind that every player is subject to the same subjectiveness. you've beat this horse dead since midseason that slayton doesn't have bad hands despite all evidence to the contrary dating back to college, raw drops, drop rates, catch%, 30th percentile next gen stats catch rating, so im out of ways to say your wrong but im going to try 1 last stat. im not 100% sure it's accurate because it's a little subjective, but im pretty sure on wild card weekend he led the league in tears and teamates coming over to console him after dropping a wide open pass that almost ended their season. i hope he somehow rediscovers his rookie year form but i dont think id have bet 12m+ on it. 1) A subjective ratio applied to all players is still an incomplete subjective ratio. 2) I've never said he didn't have bad hands. My view has always been his catch rate and YPC make up for his drops. And his catch rate markedly improved this season, in this system. To the tune of +20 percentage points. 3) Hey you're the guy who wanted to bet 14M and a pick on Cortland Sutton, who rated 10 points lower this year in that same Next Gen analysis, with a 57% career catch rate. So next time I need parlay advice, you're not my guy.

You don't watch the NFL besides the Giants. Your opinion is void.

In comment 16067776 middleground said:

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In comment 16067767 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 16067741 ryanmkeane said: Quote: I’d rather have Slayton at 6M then Lazard or Gallup at 11 it is always possible to cherry pick a worse contract. but you are right dallas extending gallup for 5 years on a torn acl was a lot worse than slayton on a 2 year deal. Player contract comps are a thing that actually occurs in the real life NFL. It's not cherry picking when both agents and GMs use it. Slayton has drop issues, he also profiles the speed that Schoen is looking for and has been the Giants big play threat as a WR for the better part of three seasons. Despite what Sunday couch watchers think, NFL GMs place actual dollar values on this. Team admins also value the hard work a player puts in. He received a market value contract.

thanks for explaining comps. in your comp expertise would you say gallups 5x62m was relevant here? or the several dozen contracts in closer proximity to reality?

An underrated contributor last year when he gave up a lot to stay a Giant. Has never complained or made himself an issue in the WR room. He's fast, has made big plays, and has a good connection with DJ. It's a pretty slim WR FA market and it isn't unreasonable to think he could have gotten similar $ somewhere else. I've always liked Slayton and am glad he's made a little money for himself.

In comment 16067786 GoBigBlue16to56 said:

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Reasons: 1. Slayton has been very durable (dependable) in his first 4 seasons. 2. Has the speed that opens up field for our other receivers. 3. Has only lost one fumble in 59 games. 4. Scored 15 td’s so far (Amani had 12 td’s his first 4 seasons). 5. Has developed great chemistry with Dimes. 6. Love the fact that he came to his QB defense when Brisker and the snarling jackals went after Daniel and his contract. 7. His reaction after that drop vs. Vikes in playoffs shows he wants to win and thought he had let his team down (super that Coach D. went right over to him and told him to keep chin up). 8. Did not mope when not playing and was ready when his number was called. So really happy he’s is coming back.

Great post.

but at least I know Slayton is there. He is available.

Paris Campbell, Shep, Wandale, Waller... a LOT of games missed between them.

Gives DJ a safety blanket, maybe not the most dependable one, but someone he is familiar with for years now.

In comment 16067807 crackerjack465 said:

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but at least I know Slayton is there. He is available. Paris Campbell, Shep, Wandale, Waller... a LOT of games missed between them. Gives DJ a safety blanket, maybe not the most dependable one, but someone he is familiar with for years now.

+1

I think he has upside....he and DJ kinda came up together.
Frankly,if we didn't resign him I would have been surprised

This better not result in Love leaving.

In comment 16067775 Eric on Li said:

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if julian love gets a similar 6-7m aav elsewhere would you still have preferred bringing back slayton?

I really don't see where a 6m AAV is objectionable.

If you don't believe it's within the realm of league normal, I'm not sure there's any way to stop debating it.

In comment 16067799 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16067776 middleground said: Quote: In comment 16067767 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 16067741 ryanmkeane said: Quote: I’d rather have Slayton at 6M then Lazard or Gallup at 11 it is always possible to cherry pick a worse contract. but you are right dallas extending gallup for 5 years on a torn acl was a lot worse than slayton on a 2 year deal. Player contract comps are a thing that actually occurs in the real life NFL. It's not cherry picking when both agents and GMs use it. Slayton has drop issues, he also profiles the speed that Schoen is looking for and has been the Giants big play threat as a WR for the better part of three seasons. Despite what Sunday couch watchers think, NFL GMs place actual dollar values on this. Team admins also value the hard work a player puts in. He received a market value contract. thanks for explaining comps. in your comp expertise would you say gallups 5x62m was relevant here? or the several dozen contracts in closer proximity to reality?

I would say I feel the need to summarize comps when people use words like cherry picking. The Cowboys structured Gallup's contract around his availability which brings him much closer to Slayton financially, a player who has been more available and a more focal point of the offense for the team he plays for.

In comment 16067378 Milton said:

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We could be looking at a $2M bonus and salaries of $1M and $9M in years one and two respectively (making his salary cap hit only $2M this year).

+1. It’s all about the structure.

In comment 16067794 christian said:

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1) A subjective ratio applied to all players is still an incomplete subjective ratio. 2) I've never said he didn't have bad hands. My view has always been his catch rate and YPC make up for his drops. And his catch rate markedly improved this season, in this system. To the tune of +20 percentage points. 3) Hey you're the guy who wanted to bet 14M and a pick on Cortland Sutton, who rated 10 points lower this year in that same Next Gen analysis, with a 57% career catch rate. So next time I need parlay advice, you're not my guy.

waller's contract is basically the same as the sutton, as was the comp i suggested, so the fo agreed, they just chose a diff player who wasnt publicly known to be available. waller's catch rating was 39th percentile last year and he didnt play enough this year to qualify so 2 years older and with all his time missed i think its not hard to argue they chose a similar or greater risk. waller last made a pro bowl in 20, sutton in 19.

sutton vs waller is arguable either way but adding it all up i think id have chosen same as nyg did and gone w waller despite the injury risk. it's close though, sutton's 28, been healthier, and his floor from the last 2 years appears to be 800 / 13 ypc.

In comment 16067741 ryanmkeane said:

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I’d rather have Slayton at 6M then Lazard or Gallup at 11

I agree on this. That Lazard deal is bananas, would be pretty annoyed if that were us.

Interesting!

In comment 16067831 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 16067741 ryanmkeane said: Quote: I’d rather have Slayton at 6M then Lazard or Gallup at 11 I agree on this. That Lazard deal is bananas, would be pretty annoyed if that were us.

Yes, but just because a team makes a bad deal doesn't mean we should compare ourselves to that bad deal. Those are worse deals, but this is still a bad deal.

In comment 16067816 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 16067775 Eric on Li said: Quote: if julian love gets a similar 6-7m aav elsewhere would you still have preferred bringing back slayton? I really don't see where a 6m AAV is objectionable. If you don't believe it's within the realm of league normal, I'm not sure there's any way to stop debating it.

i never said it was - its exactly the price i expected him to get bc its exactly the price every comp projected. i just wouldnt have wanted to be the one to pay it to him for the exact reason implied in the question i asked that you dodged, there are better uses of that same aav on a player like love.

you cant just sign as many players as you want just bc they are fmv deals. you have to choose who you want to fit under the cap. i hope they can fit both but id have gone love over slayton all day. u?

In comment 16067831 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 16067741 ryanmkeane said: Quote: I’d rather have Slayton at 6M then Lazard or Gallup at 11 I agree on this. That Lazard deal is bananas, would be pretty annoyed if that were us.

lazard got the deal he did in large part because of rodgers.

my position on slayton, obviously before his signing was announced. just because something is offered at a fair price doesn't mean you have to want to buy it.

In comment 16064777 Eric on Li said:

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RE: i am the opposite of a slayton supporter but he's worth more than min WR is a premium position and he is a mid to bottom tier starter. only 40% of the league starts (22/53) and they generally don't hit UFA and only get paid the minimum. slayton is a flawed player but someone is going to give him a contract in line with the projections, which are between 5-10m aav. i wouldnt want to pay him that any more than paying allen lazard 44m but that's how ufa goes.

In comment 16067605 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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First of all Campbell is now your #1. He is far from "the bottom". Slayton is near the bottom.

If Campbell is in our #1, we're in deep doo doo

We haven't seen the structure yet my guess is most if not all of the guarantees are in the first year. He has had consistent production in yards if not tds over his first 4 years. He has game breaking speed something that is lacking in the rest of the group. And he is homegrown. He is the 1st day 3 pick since Bradshaw to earn a 2nd contract who was drafted when there was no day 3. And he did EARN it. He had one foot out the door and he played his way into staying, something we should be proud of. He earned the respect of the front office which he clearly did not have last year. And I firmly believe that this FO knows what the hell they are doing.

In comment 16067656 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16067625 bc4life said: Quote: Slayton in pretty good company Link - ( New Window ) having as many drops as players who get 2-3x as many targets isn't good. the last 2 years slayton has been worst in the league in drop%. league average is like 7% so slayton is dropping 2x league average. alternatives like jakobi meyers were 1.5% & juju was 3.3%. spending this much on UFAs wasn't something i expected so if there's something they may end up regretting i think it may be giving slayton + campbell roughly the same aav combined as they could have just given 1 of those guys. they are taking 2 fliers on upside guys instead of just adding 1 more proven above average starter.

wow that’s worse than I thought

Good route runner, great speed, below average hands. Hard worker, good guy and solid culture fit.

But I hate the contract. Don't get this one at all. Seems ridiculously high especially given what they paid Paris Campbell.

Forgetting the compensation for a moment, though, Slayton is actually a pretty good number three in this offense. Paris Campbell has a much higher ceiling than Slayton and if healthy is a great number two. Hodgins, James, Smith and Robinson become rotational guys which is actually now pretty solid depth. Still need a number one WR on this team, though. Waller can possibly be that guy depending on how he is used. Overall, I love the big boost in team speed on offense.

We still need a number one WR though before we effectively match up with the Eagles, Cowboys and the AFC East in terms of overall offense... If not DHop in a trade, then the draft...

went and got Jones Oline help to make a proper evaluation, I think NYG is doing the same with Slayton.

Slayton is only 26, he's healthy and still pretty quick. Put another WR like that next to him and maybe he continues to grow.

Obviously they like him for more then his talent on the field, think some of you need to take that in consideration as well.

In comment 16067895 Rory said:

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went and got Jones Oline help to make a proper evaluation, I think NYG is doing the same with Slayton. Slayton is only 26, he's healthy and still pretty quick. Put another WR like that next to him and maybe he continues to grow. Obviously they like him for more then his talent on the field, think some of you need to take that in consideration as well.

we'll see how things go but again it's not just slayton in a vacuum.

if love leaves bc they cant afford him, and gets paid similar to slayton as projected that was effectively the choice. love was a captain who also brought a lot to the team.

Courtland Sutton on a trade would have had 14M in guaranteed dollars left on his contract.

Waller has 8.25M guaranteed money left on his deal.

I won't be surprised if the total guarantees on Slayton + Waller are less than 15M.

So I suspect for the pick and guaranteed dollars getting Sutton would have required for 2023, the Giants got Slayton + Waller.

And Sutton and Slayton are in the same neighborhood in terms of drops and career catch rate, so let's not make Slayton some kind of tragedy and Sutton a good bet.

Are you kidding me?? This team still lacks so much talent not just in starters, but in depth as well and you give Slayton 6 million a year???! What are the Giants doing?? We are a bargain box team again. I'm just not liking what they are doing here. Meanwhile, the Eagles sign 2 Elite Cornerbacks and extra depth in Greedy Williams. smh.. And we wonder why we can't beat the Eagles or the Cowboys anymore..

In comment 16067352 Eric from BBI said:

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contract. Hope he has a breakout year.

Mouth open… up to $8M per? WTF

I like the player but not at that cost with his inconsistencies.

In comment 16067926 christian said:

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Courtland Sutton on a trade would have had 14M in guaranteed dollars left on his contract. Waller has 8.25M guaranteed money left on his deal. I won't be surprised if the total guarantees on Slayton + Waller are less than 15M. So I suspect for the pick and guaranteed dollars getting Sutton would have required for 2023, the Giants got Slayton + Waller. And Sutton and Slayton are in the same neighborhood in terms of drops and career catch rate, so let's not make Slayton some kind of tragedy and Sutton a good bet.

waller's base is 11m + 1.5m in roster/workout bonuses. how much he has guaranteed of that doesn't matter, he's not taking a paycut, so unless you think the nyg traded for waller to cut him and eat 9m in dead money he's getting 12.5m cash this year vs. 14m for sutton. either of them could have restructured salary to signing bonus to create room the same way.

im not sure what numbers you are looking at but per pff over the last 2 seasons sutton has 7 drops in 201 targets. slayton has 12 in 125 targets.

that's 1 drop for every 28 targets for sutton and a 60% catch rate each year.
and 1 drop for every 10 targets for slayton, 65% catch rate '22, 47% '21.

waller has 8 in 132 targets so he's in between at 1 drop for every 16 targets. 66% catch rate '22, 61% '21.

waller and sutton are both only available because their recent track record fell off from their prior pro bowl 'alpha' seasons. pre-acl in 2019 sutton looked like a star and at 27 who knows maybe there's still time. w/ waller it was 2019 + 2020. both are similar buy low gambles at similar costs.

Just insane hate out there.
He has good YAC, plenty fast and does contest one-on-one catches well enough. Well better value than Odell and not toxic like Odell

His hands not all horrible, actually caught tight passes. YAC and juking is good. I suspect Dabs wants better routes
Slay highlights - ( New Window )

In comment 16067945 GiantTuff1 said:

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In comment 16067352 Eric from BBI said: Quote: contract. Hope he has a breakout year. Mouth open… up to $8M per? WTF I like the player but not at that cost with his inconsistencies.

Why would your jaw drop at contract incentives?
What would be the problem if he..plays well enough to earn them?

There is something about a drop that just makes a receiver look really bad. It makes you overlook the fact that a guy has to be open to make a drop.

But in reality, drops are not as significant as they seem. Slayton can get open and is particularly good at driving the safety back and then cutting to the middle to give his QB a wide open throw.

And for every Slayton drop, there were two Danny Jones misthrows.

We have to wait to see how much of the contract is guaranteed. But he is a good guy to have on the team, especially since the QB is comfortable throwing to him.

In comment 16067881 Blue Dream said:

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We haven't seen the structure yet my guess is most if not all of the guarantees are in the first year. He has had consistent production in yards if not tds over his first 4 years. He has game breaking speed something that is lacking in the rest of the group. And he is homegrown. He is the 1st day 3 pick since Bradshaw to earn a 2nd contract who was drafted when there was no day 3. And he did EARN it. He had one foot out the door and he played his way into staying, something we should be proud of. He earned the respect of the front office which he clearly did not have last year. And I firmly believe that this FO knows what the hell they are doing.

This is what I was going to point out. Maybe the inner details of the contract have been revealed and rational fans have a right to be concerned. If not, this point had been driven home(broadcast anyway, I think many fans still got hung up on aav) but that the aav is essentially meaningless and it has far more to do with the guaranteed money and how the contract is actually structured. The agents release the aav first to show their client made out like a bandit, but later on the details are usually revealed on how the team protected itself. The knee jerk outrage to aav minutes after a tweet is posted is a horse that’s been beaten to death already too many times. A paper thin free agent WR market may have benefited Slayton in this instance, and he may not have been the Giants plan A. to force a pivot away from Slayton just for the sake of doing so when the alternatives were either A)pricier FA WRs who the Giants didn’t feel presented the right value based on the #s they were seeking(who knows what Hadman or Chark were looking for), or B)forcing a Jeudy trade where they gave up more compensation than they felt Jeudy was worth…is that what anyone would really want? That was the Golladay signing. Slayton may seem pricy at first blush, but without knowing the alternative costs it’s hard to grill them because their wasn’t much on the market to begin with.

DJ has cost Slayton a lot more money than vice versa. Slayton could have had at least another 1000 yard season and a couple more touchdowns with some better awareness and deep accuracy from his QB.

One can argue that he was owed for taking payout and leading the team last year. Him and Hodgins were deals!

Good guy...good teammate....and is smart, tough and dependable

So BBI, relax.....

In comment 16067457 Eric from BBI said:

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by posters who keep saying that Slayton was "productive." He only had 46 catches and two touchdowns. That's not productive for a guy who started 11 games.

You’re viewing this like a person who just started watching football. Touchdowns numbers are irrelevant. The guy has played in a run heavy offense. That alone lowers the totals. Plus who was opposite him? He had a very good season Your letting his drop Vs the Vikings change your entire view of his season. Without slayton we don’t make the playoffs this year. He was very reliable and had many big catches over the middle absorbing contact and stayed healthy. Him and jones have a legit connection and there’s nobody better on the giants roster running the deep over route. He’s the only pure outside wr we currently have. Campbell can play everywhere but he’s more slot. Hodgins is a possession guy. Slayton is the only speed from the outside and is a very blocker down field. Let’s not overreact to a guy making 6 million per who just had 700 yards. He’s only 26 and increased his catch rate by nearly 10 percent so you would think he can still improve. Also, it slightly lessens the need to draft an X WR early and force that pick. Not that slayton is an X but you subtract him and we are clearly taking WR round 1

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Slayton, 26, ranked in the top five in catches, receiving yards, yards per reception and touchdowns over the past four years among all free agents under 30 years old, according to Priority Sports agency. In three of his four seasons, the ultra-consistent Slayton’s numbers have fallen between 46-50 catches and 724-751 yards. He has 15 total touchdowns and has led the team in receiving yards three times.

Yeah, he's not a big time receiver, but lets not act like he is dog shit.

for a 5th round pick he's been a pretty good player.