He clearly knew like the rest of us that this wasn’t a WR free agent group worth shelling out a bunch of cash for.
He made the trade for Waller which should provide us with essentially a one year deal top 5 TE since he has no guaranteed cash after this season. And all he gave up was the late 3rd from the Toney deal. The tandem of Waller and Bellinger should be formidable as both can block in addition to being weapons in the passing game.
I’m sure he tried to trade for players like Jeudy or Hopkins, But the price was too steep.
So he made smart decisions in signing Campbell to an incentive laden deal given his injury history and re-signed Slayton who frankly doesn’t deserve a lot of the crap he gets from fans. He’s a solid 3rd receiver type on an affordable short term contract. I would rather have Slayton than Hardman or Chark due to his clean injury history and knowledge of the offense.
Now it’s time to grab another receiver high in the draft and maybe another mid or late rounder to close it out for this offseason.
[quote] But there still isn’t that bonafied No.1 guy that we sorely miss. Let’s hope Schoen and staff can identify a guy in the draft, even if they have to move up for one. (IMO)
this is true. but if you factor in waller, who may be the #1 target on a good amount of plays its much better
yes a true #1 guy would be great Heck a top #2 guy would make a big difference especially in wandale can be back close to full strength for a hopeful playoff push
maybe we get that in draft
maybe it has to be a next yr thing so we can compete on both LOS with philly, niners etc
I still would like to take a stab at Z Smith or calais C if the money is right two vets who play winks way would really give front 7 some nice depth draft an IOL in first 3 rds too
rome wont be built in a yr but I think we can fill in a good chunk of the pieces we are short
wandale and waller playing off each other are two totally different skill sets and can keep a D off balance
Hodgins
Slayton
Campbell
Shepard
Robinson
Smith
WR round 1-3
WR round 4-7
That's 8 players fighting for probably 6 WR roster spots. Perhaps Shepard and/or Robinson start the season on PUP
So, we are keeping a player we know - Slayton - who played under the weight of a one-year deal last year and did some good work to earn another opportunity.
Meanwhile, we are taking a chance on a guy like PC, who has WR2 skills, but likely needs a change of scenery to get his career on track.
So, we are keeping a player we know - Slayton - who played under the weight of a one-year deal last year and did some good work to earn another opportunity.
Meanwhile, we are taking a chance on a guy like PC, who has WR2 skills, but likely needs a change of scenery to get his career on track.
PC also had pretty poor qb play a good deal of the time might get more chances in a daboll/kafka offense they seemed to have schemed well last yr with limited separation from skill players more often than not
It’s a low cost short term pivot off shitty options.
Does Kansas City have a true #1? Or just a great TE like we now have?
Things will obv change (club options, FT, etc) but at the moment possible options at WR for next season
Michael Thomas
Mike Evans
Tyler Boyd
Jeudy (club)
Cedee Lamb (club)
Justin Jefferson (club)
Brandon Aiyuk (club)
Tee Higgins
Will teams or players not want to committ long term to their teams and are available for a trade? Who thought KC would trade Tyreek. Titans traded AJ Brown etc. In the NFL you never know tbh
It’s a process and best part is they are sticking to it and not abandoning it with a little unexpected success
All of this movement is incremental improvement. We will almost certainly add another receiver with real #1 potential early in the draft. Just enough continuity to allow for us to bring in some new, young foundational pieces while remaining competitive.
The Chiefs won the Super Bowl with a dominant TE and speed at WR and RB.
Maybe we get another WR in round 1 or 2 that compliments the rest of the roster like JSN or Addison?
Maybe a guy like Cedric Tillman from Tennessee is a guy they trade up in round 2 to draft after going CB in round 1? I like Tillmans game a lot. Very physical and has excellent size.
The Chiefs won the Super Bowl with a dominant TE and speed at WR and RB.
Maybe we get another WR in round 1 or 2 that compliments the rest of the roster like JSN or Addison?
Maybe a guy like Cedric Tillman from Tennessee is a guy they trade up in round 2 to draft after going CB in round 1? I like Tillmans game a lot. Very physical and has excellent size.
I'll probably say this a few times between now and the draft, but when Schoen described what he looks for in a WR, the first name that popped into my mind wasn't even a current NFL player. It was Zay Flowers. Wouldn't shock me if we have him as the top WR on our board this year.
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Is there one in the draft like Chase, Samuel, D. Smith, Diggs, Waddle?
The Chiefs won the Super Bowl with a dominant TE and speed at WR and RB.
Maybe we get another WR in round 1 or 2 that compliments the rest of the roster like JSN or Addison?
Maybe a guy like Cedric Tillman from Tennessee is a guy they trade up in round 2 to draft after going CB in round 1? I like Tillmans game a lot. Very physical and has excellent size.
I'll probably say this a few times between now and the draft, but when Schoen described what he looks for in a WR, the first name that popped into my mind wasn't even a current NFL player. It was Zay Flowers. Wouldn't shock me if we have him as the top WR on our board this year.
until we can stop the run(think we are getting closer still need one more front 7 guy) and move philly/SF dline a bit on offense it wont matter. all for a 5t at 25. or torrance.
The Chiefs won the Super Bowl with a dominant TE and speed at WR and RB.
Maybe we get another WR in round 1 or 2 that compliments the rest of the roster like JSN or Addison?
Maybe a guy like Cedric Tillman from Tennessee is a guy they trade up in round 2 to draft after going CB in round 1? I like Tillmans game a lot. Very physical and has excellent size.
Good post and I agree. Jones being a mobile QB and therefore having the ability to create lessens the need for the traditional “Number 1” receiver. That player IMO is more important when you have a QB like Eli who can’t move well and has to have a receiver create quickly so he can get the ball out of his hands as fast as possible. Or have a line that’s so good that he can camp out and wait for a guy to get open downfield.
With a QB like Jones it’s important to have receivers that run crisp routes, are elusive, and can ad lib when the initial play breaks down. One thing I noticed while watching tape of Campbell from last season is that he routinely kept working the field. Ryan was under a lot of duress due to being a traditional pocket QB in addition to injuries on the offensive line and you would see Campbell extending plays time and time again that were clearly off script.
Also keep in mind, this is a different offseason now that Jones is locked up and Schoen and Daboll got to see what he can do. They weren’t quite sure what they had last year so they didn’t pick up his 5th year option and likely didn’t draft with a “Jones is our guy going forward” mentality. Now they have that mentality based on the money being spent.
i think i'd have probably gone for something safer instead of the 11m campbell/slayton combo, like juju or meyers. but i do see up the appeal of more explosiveness even if there's risk.
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In comment 16067958 Rjanyg said:
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Is there one in the draft like Chase, Samuel, D. Smith, Diggs, Waddle?
The Chiefs won the Super Bowl with a dominant TE and speed at WR and RB.
Maybe we get another WR in round 1 or 2 that compliments the rest of the roster like JSN or Addison?
Maybe a guy like Cedric Tillman from Tennessee is a guy they trade up in round 2 to draft after going CB in round 1? I like Tillmans game a lot. Very physical and has excellent size.
I'll probably say this a few times between now and the draft, but when Schoen described what he looks for in a WR, the first name that popped into my mind wasn't even a current NFL player. It was Zay Flowers. Wouldn't shock me if we have him as the top WR on our board this year.
until we can stop the run(think we are getting closer still need one more front 7 guy) and move philly/SF dline a bit on offense it wont matter. all for a 5t at 25. or torrance.
Totally agree with building up trenches, in an ideal world. Just don't see the value being there in the first round at 5T or IOL.
i think i'd have probably gone for something safer instead of the 11m campbell/slayton combo, like juju or meyers. but i do see up the appeal of more explosiveness even if there's risk.
This may be my only truly strong take on the free agent WRs, but Juju stinks. He may be something even worse, he’s a mediocre low ceiling WR. He’s an ok big slot outlet WR and I genuinely don’t think he does anything that Hodgins doesn’t do better. Lazard got more shit on this board but I can at least see the appeal there, he had some big plays and is maybe the best blocking WR in football. Juju is blah. Meyers I get too and one of the most puzzling things to me this off-season is Belichick swapping Meyers for Juju.
Also when you compare the two options, I imagine the combined guarantees are much different than the guarantees on any one of these 3 top of the market deals.
Anyone think Collin Johnson will be healthy and make the team? He looked good in preseason last year before the injury.
Chiefs just showed us that (again).
There’s no comparison there
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Report: Broncos unlikely to trade Jerry Jeudy, Courtland Sutton.
We've all heard the Mike Tyson quote: "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." What I like most about Schoen isn't that he has a plan...it's his willingness to alter that plan if circumstances warrant it. His adaptability is his best ability, so to speak.
Solidify the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball and we will be a contender.
Going into last season Toney was the most talented WR on the roster and injuries killed it. We basically have the same group of WRs right now that we had at the end of last season. It’s still one of the worst WR corps in the NFL. I’m not sure how you can look at the players and think it’s a good group?
I know there was not a great FA, but it’s a terrible group and we are overpaying a guy like Slayton. Not many teams pay a 4th WR that much money. That’s what he is. But because the Giants don’t have any good WRs he’s going to be put in a starting spot and under deliver as he has since his rookie year. He doesn’t make big catches.
Going into last season Toney was the most talented WR on the roster and injuries killed it. We basically have the same group of WRs right now that we had at the end of last season. It’s still one of the worst WR corps in the NFL. I’m not sure how you can look at the players and think it’s a good group?
I know there was not a great FA, but it’s a terrible group and we are overpaying a guy like Slayton. Not many teams pay a 4th WR that much money. That’s what he is. But because the Giants don’t have any good WRs he’s going to be put in a starting spot and under deliver as he has since his rookie year. He doesn’t make big catches.
1. Hodgins wasn’t on the team to start the season…after a full camp, will get even better
2. WanDale got injured just as he was coming on
3. Campbell caught 62 with 5 TDs
4. Waller’s presence will make WRs even better
5. Healthy Shepard is always a reliable possession guy
6. Drafted WR coming up?
Going into last season Toney was the most talented WR on the roster and injuries killed it. We basically have the same group of WRs right now that we had at the end of last season. It’s still one of the worst WR corps in the NFL. I’m not sure how you can look at the players and think it’s a good group?
I know there was not a great FA, but it’s a terrible group and we are overpaying a guy like Slayton. Not many teams pay a 4th WR that much money. That’s what he is. But because the Giants don’t have any good WRs he’s going to be put in a starting spot and under deliver as he has since his rookie year. He doesn’t make big catches.
FWIW, players get hurt all the time. Unless it is a joint injury, they normally get back quickly.
If Slayton is now the #4 WR, then that is an improvement as he went from #1 to #4....
I see your point, but the offseason is still here and the draft is coming. Compared to last season, so far the WR room is better.
There’s no comparison there
That's right. They are the exception not the rule.
Now, if you have a highly functional OL, particularly with pass protection, that changes the calculus. That is a force multiplier and should be classified as an "offensive weapon". Unfortunately, that's the hardest unit to build in the NFL.
the ped suspension and whatever happened to the relationship with arizona is something else but in the 9 games he played he was the same stud he's always been, and that was better than every other veteran and FA in discussion.
he was the only 'alpha' rumored available who actually played that way last year.
In general, I'd rather us miss on the guy than overpay. That doesn't mean everyone has to come cheap or below market, and that there isn't any negotiation and give-and take, but you have to set a limit and stick to it. That's responsible and something we have been missing.
Add in as has been noted many times, the alignment between what the coaches want and what the FO delivers...
We finally seem to have a professional team in place.
I feel like he's doing what most GM's would do.
I kind of feel like fans are hook line and sinker buying into an approach without seeing results, which is fine for fans to do - it's your choice, but it reminds of the Joe Judge sentiment after he was hired.
I'm a laggard and I need to understand the plan and see it unfold with success on field.
I chalk the 2022 success up to coaching probably 90% and 10% to Schoen since the overwhelming majority of significant contributors were already here.
He had Colt McCoy throwing to him a bunch last yea and put up the same numbers he always has. He's plenty explosive. I'm thinking you didn't watch him enough.
I feel like he's doing what most GM's would do.
I kind of feel like fans are hook line and sinker buying into an approach without seeing results, which is fine for fans to do - it's your choice, but it reminds of the Joe Judge sentiment after he was hired.
I'm a laggard and I need to understand the plan and see it unfold with success on field.
I chalk the 2022 success up to coaching probably 90% and 10% to Schoen since the overwhelming majority of significant contributors were already here.
100% agree. I'm falling for it, but I fell for it with Judge too(until he started coaching games and I realized he was in way over his head). I will say this...the difference is Schoen is a GM and you can see his vision. People weren't doing this with Gettleman, it was more split. It appears as though Schoen has a plan built for 2023 and beyond so I'm gonna keep buying in!
Nothing admirable about what he's doing here though, there aren't many other options. Sign cheap players and hope they can help.
I am really anxious to see what the new scouting dept comes up with in the mid and late rds.
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admirable is the right word.
I feel like he's doing what most GM's would do.
I kind of feel like fans are hook line and sinker buying into an approach without seeing results, which is fine for fans to do - it's your choice, but it reminds of the Joe Judge sentiment after he was hired.
I'm a laggard and I need to understand the plan and see it unfold with success on field.
I chalk the 2022 success up to coaching probably 90% and 10% to Schoen since the overwhelming majority of significant contributors were already here.
100% agree. I'm falling for it, but I fell for it with Judge too(until he started coaching games and I realized he was in way over his head). I will say this...the difference is Schoen is a GM and you can see his vision. People weren't doing this with Gettleman, it was more split. It appears as though Schoen has a plan built for 2023 and beyond so I'm gonna keep buying in!
Nothing admirable about what he's doing here though, there aren't many other options. Sign cheap players and hope they can help.
I'm cautiously optimistic. I want to be there (completely bought in) but I need to see some results first.
I don't think I'm being negative to feel this way either.
I don't see the Giants trading for Hopkins or any other WR. The recent low cost signings of Campbell, Smith, and Slayton were a fall back option Schoen employed when he couldn't trade for Jeudy, Sutton, Hopkins, etc. The market for Hopkins could soften to the point where he might be an option, but I think that already would have happened if true.
We'll add at least one, maybe two, WRs in the draft and the roll with what we've got. I'm also not convinced we'll take a WR in the first round. Schoen has already said he wants to take the BPA regardless of position, which is the correct approach.
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Again not to belabor the point, but Joe Schoen isn't making these moves the Giants are. I have been thinking about the overall situation at WR and in looking at the moves the Giants have made to date - signing Waller and Campbell, resigning Slayton and Hodgins - and it strikes me that these really aren't the moves of a 'rebuilding' team. They are the moves of a team that is going for it. But there is still one huge piece missing and that's a #1, go-to, big-play guy. And while the Giants could certainly get some speed in the draft there's this little voice in the back of my head which keeps repeating 'that the next logical move for the Giants at receiver is to go out and get a big-time proven guy like Hopkins' which would complete the picture much more than a draft pick like Hyatt would. Again just a gut feeling. And right now the WR trade market looks really soft. Not many teams chasing a number of potential guys that fill the bill so the Giants likely can afford to take their time if that is indeed what they are thinking. Time will tell.
I don't see the Giants trading for Hopkins or any other WR. The recent low cost signings of Campbell, Smith, and Slayton were a fall back option Schoen employed when he couldn't trade for Jeudy, Sutton, Hopkins, etc. The market for Hopkins could soften to the point where he might be an option, but I think that already would have happened if true.
We'll add at least one, maybe two, WRs in the draft and the roll with what we've got. I'm also not convinced we'll take a WR in the first round. Schoen has already said he wants to take the BPA regardless of position, which is the correct approach.
I agree. I'm sure he checked on those guys to see if he could get a bargain and learned the cost was too high and then went to plan B.
Absolutely, but I viewed last year as 90% coaching 10% Schoen. Most of the contributors were already here. You can nitpick on the percentages.
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In a year when they were supposed to reset the cap and see what they have in the roster(specifically at QB), they excelled and made the playoffs. He found some hidden gems and I thought he did a really good job.
Absolutely, but I viewed last year as 90% coaching 10% Schoen. Most of the contributors were already here. You can nitpick on the percentages.
Def fair
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engaged monster he was when at his best when I watched him. Mix in the PED suspension and you better ask yourself why.
He had Colt McCoy throwing to him a bunch last yea and put up the same numbers he always has. He's plenty explosive. I'm thinking you didn't watch him enough.
Don't think too hard. His contract is a big issue too.
All that being said, none of what you said was accurate regarding his play. that's all.
He's always open and when he isn't, he still catches everything with his bear claws.
He manhandled Ramsey when he played him too.
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And I look at our receiver room and think to myself that man, put a DeAndre Hopkins type player with the guys we already have and it would quite literally transform the offense. Maybe even transform the whole team. There is no draft pick that is going to do that for you. In fact, I doubt that there is any combination of picks this year which would come anywhere near close to that. Certainly, no offensive guard, or LB or tweener DE or even a CB is going to come anywhere near close to being transformative.
Which I guess brings me back to the point I have been trying to make this spring. I am from the school - and I believe the same school that Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll attend - that believes you don't build a championship team by focusing on plugging holes and/or playing everything safety first. You win championships by adding impact players who make impact players and then filling in around the edges the best you can. But time will tell.
1. is he demanding an extension and if so, how much?
2. will he fit in the lockerroom?
3. what is AZ asking for in a trade?
4. does hopkins want to play in NY? I read an article that said he's hoping to play for the cowboys. maybe hes trying to strong arm AZ.
It seems as though the Giants filled up the room a bit already and they may have deemed any or all of the above a reason to not go after Hopkins. As far as on the field play, Hopkins is a no-brainer. Still a top 5 WR in the NFL.