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Barkley decision

Gogiantsgo : 3/18/2023 7:36 am
What are the Giants doing with Barkley? Very little news coming out after they tagged him. Initially, many speculated that they would have a deal in place before the start of free agency. Then the RB market tanked beyond anyone's imagination.

What's next? Does SB insist upon getting his 14+MM? Do the Giants go back to the 12-12.5MM they were proposing during the bye? Do they now prefer that he just play on the tag? It's completely understandable if they tell him that the market has changed and that their offer is no longer on the table (after all, if the market went up, SB would insist on a HIGHER contract to reflect these unexpected changes). But would pulling the offer and making him play on the tag be a douche move by the organization? Would he even play on it?

What's the compromise here? Is 12-12.5MM still an option or has it been retracted? I'm guessing that SB is pretty unhappy with the current situation.
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The Giants don’t need to do anything  
Sean : 3/18/2023 7:41 am : link
Barkley should be thankful that Schoen doesn’t pull the offer entirely. The market is what it is.
RE: The Giants don’t need to do anything  
Gogiantsgo : 3/18/2023 7:42 am : link
In comment 16069210 Sean said:
Quote:
Barkley should be thankful that Schoen doesn’t pull the offer entirely. The market is what it is.


So you know that the 12-12.5MM offer still stands?
I think the Giants are firm  
section125 : 3/18/2023 7:44 am : link
on their best offer - reportedly $12.5 to $13. Last thing I saw was he wants 4 yrs(rumor). I doubt Schoen rescinds the offer. That would not sit well with the team.

It gets done when it gets done. Sitting on the tag is not hurting as it keeps the cap total $2.5 mill less than it would be if he signs. More time for the LW and AJ restructures.
Saquon  
Toth029 : 3/18/2023 7:46 am : link
Is a very talented player but I hope they don't sign him long term. It's crazy they offered whatever it was $12.5 or $13M and he still rejected it. It just shouldn't happen. The Draft is filled the young, healthy, and cheaper alternatives.
This draft is absolutely  
CromartiesKid21 : 3/18/2023 7:46 am : link
Loaded at RB...draft Barkley's replacement on Day 3 and let Saquon play out the season on the FT...second contracts to rbs is proven to be a bad idea
Whether it’s 3 or 4 years doesn’t really matter  
BillT : 3/18/2023 7:50 am : link
The 3rd and/or 4th years wouldn’t be guaranteed. It’s going to be a 2 year deal essentially. Hope they get that done
RB is a position  
joeinpa : 3/18/2023 8:02 am : link
Especially with this year s draft that the team could have taken advantage of a rookie contract

I get Saquon is one of their guys, a cultural guy, but the Giants can’t make the mistake here that the Cowboys did with Elliot

I don’t expect Barkley to be a Giant after the next 2 seasons.

2 years , 12.5 million, would be fair
Great Running Backs get screwed  
Chip : 3/18/2023 8:03 am : link
They can tag him next year for 12 million and that will probably happen. When your the best at your position the franchise tag hurts those. The only thing Barkley can do is not sign the tag.
They LOVE Barkley  
CornerStone246+17 : 3/18/2023 8:07 am : link
He is uber talented and still clealrly operating at an eite level. He is a high character guy and loved in the locker room and organization. From the business side, he is also one of the greatest fan draws on the team and high merchandise sales.

The ideal here is probably a 3 year deal in the 12-13 million dollar range. He can either get that now or play on the tag. Giants are probably playing the waiting game. The leverage is on their side.
he may opt  
Jolly Blue Giant : 3/18/2023 8:20 am : link
to play on the tag and hope the FA market is better next year.....he could bet on himself with a more juiced offense and hope it works out for him....I dont know what the FA market or draft class next year looks like, but maybe thats his plan.
Jolly Blue Giant: That plan doesn’t help him either.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/18/2023 8:38 am : link
If the RB market improves and he has a good enough year to ride it, the Giants can just tag him again. You could be right. Hard to say, since he hasn’t even signed the tender yet. I won’t be shocked if he sits out.

CornerStone246+17: You make a lot of assertions about Barkley’s popularity and personality. How do you know these things? As for merchandise sales, I think most fans who were likely to buy a 26 jersey already own one. If the Giants want to sell swag, they should trade Barkley and draft his replacement.

Your most important claim is that he is “uber-talented”. The performance on the field doesn’t back that up, and hasn’t for at least three years. He had a few very good games in 2022, one of which he nearly gave away by repeatedly running out of bounds on the Giants’ final drive. The wunderkind who broke all those tackles in 2018-2019 is long gone. Post-ACL Barkley is still very good, but “uber-talented” is the kind of “touched by the hand of God” nonsense Gettleman used to toss around. At least back in 2018, he was uber-talented.
IMO  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/18/2023 8:42 am : link
Barkley has little leverage here.

An injury-prone RB playing on a 1-year tender is not ideal for him.
Yeah Schoen should be making all of this pubilc...  
DefenseWins : 3/18/2023 8:53 am : link
and if we hear nothing, then nothing is being discussed and there is no plan
RE: IMO  
Rudy5757 : 3/18/2023 8:54 am : link
In comment 16069242 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Barkley has little leverage here.

An injury-prone RB playing on a 1-year tender is not ideal for him.


I agree. At this point the best thing for the Giants is for him to play on the tag. It only goes up 20% next season so it would still be less than what they offered from what we’ve heard. He has been paid top RB money since he came into the league so it’s not like he hasn’t been paid.
RE: IMO  
nochance : 3/18/2023 9:07 am : link
In comment 16069242 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Barkley has little leverage here.

An injury-prone RB playing on a 1-year tender is not ideal for him.



Also the game has drastically changed. The days of the great Earl Campbell carrying the ball 35 times a game is in the past. Teams are not looking for a bellcow RB
Schoen should hold firm on his offer  
Rick in Dallas : 3/18/2023 9:13 am : link
Barkley would be crazy not y to o accept offer in a very soft market for RB’s.
BTW, this year’s RB class in the draft is very deep.
Let him play on the tag
...  
christian : 3/18/2023 9:20 am : link
If it were your money, how much would you be willing to bet Barkley has 2 healthy, high production seasons left in him?
RE: IMO  
RCPhoenix : 3/18/2023 9:23 am : link
In comment 16069242 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Barkley has little leverage here.

An injury-prone RB playing on a 1-year tender is not ideal for him.


I don’t think he has any leverage.
This one is as simple as they get.  
Kmed6000 : 3/18/2023 9:25 am : link
Giants made SB an offer last year. SB declined and wanted McCaffrey money. Then this offseason the RB's are getting a fraction of what he thought he was worth. The Giants offer of about 12-13M AAV is probably still on the table and should be. If SB doesn't sign it, he's tagged. If he wants to Leveon Bell it, that's on him, we will draft a RB and have options.
It's the Giants that shouldn't want him on the tag.  
mittenedman : 3/18/2023 9:25 am : link
We all know, there are 2 versions of Barkley.

One of them runs like the guy in the Titans game, and one of them runs like the guy in the Lions game.
RE: It's the Giants that shouldn't want him on the tag.  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/18/2023 9:27 am : link
In comment 16069266 mittenedman said:
Quote:
We all know, there are 2 versions of Barkley.

One of them runs like the guy in the Titans game, and one of them runs like the guy in the Lions game.


I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Heres the thing though.....  
Kmed6000 : 3/18/2023 9:30 am : link
1. SB is only hurting himself not running like he did most of last year. So SB makes business decisions and becomes a FA next year. A team will say...oh, he just made business decisions, lets give him McCaffrey money? No, someone will probably offer him exactly what the Giants just offered him so he may as well just accept the offer thats on the table.

2. I don't see SB as that kind of guy. I think he's a winner personality and once he's on the field he will play like he's capable.
RE: Jolly Blue Giant: That plan doesn’t help him either.  
Jolly Blue Giant : 3/18/2023 9:30 am : link
In comment 16069238 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
If the RB market improves and he has a good enough year to ride it, the Giants can just tag him again. You could be right. Hard to say, since he hasn’t even signed the tender yet. I won’t be shocked if he sits out.

CornerStone246+17: You make a lot of assertions about Barkley’s popularity and personality. How do you know these things? As for merchandise sales, I think most fans who were likely to buy a 26 jersey already own one. If the Giants want to sell swag, they should trade Barkley and draft his replacement.

using the tag again is a good option for the Giants, but you're making an assumption that there isn't another player they would want to use it on...Dex? Campbell?

Your most important claim is that he is “uber-talented”. The performance on the field doesn’t back that up, and hasn’t for at least three years. He had a few very good games in 2022, one of which he nearly gave away by repeatedly running out of bounds on the Giants’ final drive. The wunderkind who broke all those tackles in 2018-2019 is long gone. Post-ACL Barkley is still very good, but “uber-talented” is the kind of “touched by the hand of God” nonsense Gettleman used to toss around. At least back in 2018, he was uber-talented.
Barkley should run  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/18/2023 9:31 am : link
& sign that multi year deal if it’s still on the table

Giants should tag him again next year if he stays healthy.
RE: Jolly Blue Giant: That plan doesn’t help him either.  
Jolly Blue Giant : 3/18/2023 9:33 am : link
In comment 16069238 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
If the RB market improves and he has a good enough year to ride it, the Giants can just tag him again. You could be right. Hard to say, since he hasn’t even signed the tender yet. I won’t be shocked if he sits out


that's assuming they don't need to use the tag on another player such as Dex or Campbell.....

If one of my sons was talented enough to play  
Hammer : 3/18/2023 9:35 am : link
at a high high school and college level, I'd absolutely insist that they not play running back.

Eric sure about what?  
mittenedman : 3/18/2023 9:37 am : link
That he will tip-toe on the tag?
question....  
Jolly Blue Giant : 3/18/2023 9:39 am : link
if another team signs Barkley, do the HAVE to give up two #1's or can a lesser deal be worked out?
No question  
Y28 : 3/18/2023 9:40 am : link
That Barkley (as well as Love and both players agents) grossly misjudged the market.

Think about a few things that are now public information:

1. Post Reporter Ryan Dunleavy states (Valentine podcast) that the Giants offered Barkley a 3 year $36 mil deal during the bye week that was turned down. States that in the 48 hours before the Jones deal was signed, the Giants increased the offer to 3 years $39 mil, but that Barkley wanted 4 years. And he adds that negotiations stopped after that.

1. Analyst Marc Ross implies the Giants interest in RB Devin Singletary of the Bills (laughed off initially by BBI)

2. Reporter Aaron Wilson reports the Giants were interested in RB D'Onta Foreman of Carolina (IMO, gives some credibility to what Ross said-another RB well known to Giant coaches)

3. Giants GM Joe Schoen goes to dinner with RB Tyjae Spears of Tulane- not just any RB, but the 2nd or 3rd best back in the draft and certainly a Day Two pick.

One could argue that these events were all in the interest of finding a complimentary back to add to Barkley.

I just can't see the Giants making the next move here. IMO, its time for Barkley and his agent to face reality of the current market and reach out to Schoen. A year on the Franchise Tag is not in the best interest of either side.
Barkley got us 1,650 total yards and 11 TDS - that doesnt grow on  
PatersonPlank : 3/18/2023 9:41 am : link
trees. We still have no firepower on offense outside of Barkley and Jones running, the Waller signing doesn't change that much. I would even offer that a lot of Jones running holes were created by the defense focusing so much on Barkley. How could we replace that now, any WR with those numbers would want a lot more. Then of course there are the locker room and leader positives.

People seem to think replacing Barkley is easy, its not
RE: If one of my sons was talented enough to play  
eli4life : 3/18/2023 9:43 am : link
In comment 16069280 Hammer said:
Quote:
at a high high school and college level, I'd absolutely insist that they not play running back.


What if that’s the only position they excelled at?
They have until July to negotiate  
JoeyBigBlue : 3/18/2023 9:50 am : link
I’m positive allocating resources to FAs and the draft is the priority at this time.
RE: question....  
Kmed6000 : 3/18/2023 9:58 am : link
In comment 16069284 Jolly Blue Giant said:
Quote:
if another team signs Barkley, do the HAVE to give up two #1's or can a lesser deal be worked out?


I believe they'd have to negotiation before signing him. For example, lets say the bears like SB. They call the giants and agree to compensation and then talk to SB about his contract.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/18/2023 10:08 am : link
I can't see Saquon being so pissed he holds out, but who knows? The market is what it is.
RE: No question  
CornerStone246+17 : 3/18/2023 10:12 am : link
In comment 16069285 Y28 said:
Quote:
That Barkley (as well as Love and both players agents) grossly misjudged the market.

Think about a few things that are now public information:

1. Post Reporter Ryan Dunleavy states (Valentine podcast) that the Giants offered Barkley a 3 year $36 mil deal during the bye week that was turned down. States that in the 48 hours before the Jones deal was signed, the Giants increased the offer to 3 years $39 mil, but that Barkley wanted 4 years. And he adds that negotiations stopped after that.

1. Analyst Marc Ross implies the Giants interest in RB Devin Singletary of the Bills (laughed off initially by BBI)

2. Reporter Aaron Wilson reports the Giants were interested in RB D'Onta Foreman of Carolina (IMO, gives some credibility to what Ross said-another RB well known to Giant coaches)

3. Giants GM Joe Schoen goes to dinner with RB Tyjae Spears of Tulane- not just any RB, but the 2nd or 3rd best back in the draft and certainly a Day Two pick.

One could argue that these events were all in the interest of finding a complimentary back to add to Barkley.

I just can't see the Giants making the next move here. IMO, its time for Barkley and his agent to face reality of the current market and reach out to Schoen. A year on the Franchise Tag is not in the best interest of either side.


Great post Y28.

There is a cat and mouse game going on here. Giants offer definitely seems more than fair for a back with his injury history.
Spotrac  
Y28 : 3/18/2023 10:20 am : link
has listed all the RB signings this week. Take a look especially at the AAV and guaranteed money. That's reality in today's market.

And pay no attention to the Market Value on the list of those not yet signed. Those projections by Spotrac were done PRIOR to the start of Free Agency. Clearly the value for each of those is now lower.

(attached)




Link - ( New Window )
Barkley is very talented but something important  
jvm52106 : 3/18/2023 10:24 am : link
Many here ignore is his usage the second half of the year. The offense went from Barkley centric to a more diverse offense and centered around Jones. Was it the shoulder or was it a combination of things?

Do not discount the point made above about Barkley's very poor play of staying inbounds multiple times in game where if he stays inbounds the outcome never becomes in doubt. Add in that failed 4th down play against Dallas where a not great pass still made it to Barkley but he drops it (something he does a bit more than most admit). I think the rejected contract at the break shouldn't be discounted either.

Do the Giants want Barkley? Sure they do but at their price. Regardless we will have another back added to free us up to either move on in 2024 or even trade him (sign and trade) here in 2023..

We could really diversify this offense with a cheaper RB (ala KC) and adding a more true #1 WR (or at least a #1 to us).
Is Mara Involved?  
Samiam : 3/18/2023 10:35 am : link
Wondering if Barkley’s agent is waiting for or expecting Mara to get involved. If the negotiations are apart due to money, I could see that happening. If it’s about length of the contract, no chance. And, I don’t think the fan base would turn in favor of Barkley if he’s adamant about the 4th year.

In terms of a game of chicken, doesn’t Barkley have to sign the tag if he doesn’t get the contract? If so, then Schoen’s public interest in the Tulane RB could be the deadline. If we draft him (or another RB) with a premium pick, I could see any contract offer being taken off the table. Does that make sense?
RE: If one of my sons was talented enough to play  
Ivan15 : 3/18/2023 10:38 am : link
In comment 16069280 Hammer said:
Quote:
at a high high school and college level, I'd absolutely insist that they not play running back.
_________________________
Sure, he could play safety at a lower earnings ceiling unless he is Ed Reed.
If he signs a deal  
Gjfro : 3/18/2023 10:45 am : link
first year cap hit will be less than franchise tag so will pick up additional cap space in year 1
the market is dynamic so i wouldnt say barkley misjudged anything  
Eric on Li : 3/18/2023 10:46 am : link
he hasn't lost $1 yet. He's got $10m cash coming to him this year and $38m in career earnings.

when FA opened this week nobody knew exactly what was going to happen and there could have been teams willing to spend on some RBs. 1 of the other tag players like josh jacobs or pollard could have gotten a bigger extension than what the nyg were offering and given him some better leverage. or someone could trade for ekeler and do the same. any of those things could still happen in the few months before the tag extension deadline.

the giants offers are probably a little bit under what fmv would be relative to what someone like aaron jones got paid on his 4x48m, but close enough that they will eventually find a compromise because rbs just dont have a lot of leverage.

but barkley's leverage isn't zero, on 2 tags the next 2 years he'd get guaranteed 23m or so. unless he has a career ending injury this year that's some leverage for him and there's not much reason to sign unless he gets some upside beyond that.
kmed  
AG5686 : 3/18/2023 10:46 am : link
In comment 16069294 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 16069284 Jolly Blue Giant said:


Quote:


if another team signs Barkley, do the HAVE to give up two #1's or can a lesser deal be worked out?



I believe they'd have to negotiation before signing him. For example, lets say the bears like SB. They call the giants and agree to compensation and then talk to SB about his contract.

you are saying that the bears want SB,have negotiated a deal both like,the Giants say no to matching,then the bears say,weeeelll we don't want to give up 2 firsts,then the Bears and giants renegotiate the compensation?Then a sign and trade occurs....for less than 2 firsts.
I think this is correct,but has it actually happened yet in the NFL?
My guess is no
Pull the offer  
Spider43 : 3/18/2023 10:49 am : link
Let him play on the tag. Things have changed this offseason. The RB market is what it is. And our offense got better as well.
RE: kmed  
Kmed6000 : 3/18/2023 10:52 am : link
In comment 16069322 AG5686 said:
Quote:
In comment 16069294 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


In comment 16069284 Jolly Blue Giant said:


Quote:


if another team signs Barkley, do the HAVE to give up two #1's or can a lesser deal be worked out?



I believe they'd have to negotiation before signing him. For example, lets say the bears like SB. They call the giants and agree to compensation and then talk to SB about his contract.


you are saying that the bears want SB,have negotiated a deal both like,the Giants say no to matching,then the bears say,weeeelll we don't want to give up 2 firsts,then the Bears and giants renegotiate the compensation?Then a sign and trade occurs....for less than 2 firsts.
I think this is correct,but has it actually happened yet in the NFL?
My guess is no


No. I'm saying....

Lets say the bears want SB. They first call the Giants and build a framework for a trade should SB agree to a contract. Once that is done, they negotiate a contract with SB and then make the trade.
RE: RE: question....  
Eric on Li : 3/18/2023 10:53 am : link
In comment 16069294 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 16069284 Jolly Blue Giant said:


Quote:


if another team signs Barkley, do the HAVE to give up two #1's or can a lesser deal be worked out?



I believe they'd have to negotiation before signing him. For example, lets say the bears like SB. They call the giants and agree to compensation and then talk to SB about his contract.


i dont think this is right. on the non-exclusve tag i think players/agents can talk to anyone. how else would they negotiate an offer if a team was willing to pay the 2 firsts as compensation?

so functionally the player can act as a FA and have whatever conversations with whatever teams are interested - same as when a team gives the player and their agent permission to seek a trade. but just like that the team has ultimate control, even if an offer sheet comes in since they can match it if they want. within that control they can also accept less compensation trading the players rights while on the tag (and presumably the trading team would then negotiate an extension).
Giants played this perfectly. Barkley has no leverage. The best  
Ivan15 : 3/18/2023 10:58 am : link
He can hope for is that his agent finds someone who will offer a contract in the same range as what the Giants offered (or say 10% less in a state with no sales tax) and is willing to give up two #1 picks. Then the Giants can choose to match at a lesser price than they originally offered or take the 2 draft picks or negotiate an even better deal with the other team (say one #1, two #2s, and the other team’s starting RB).

Not accepting the tag won’t work for Barkley, especially because the timing is such that the Giants can find his replacement late in free agency or in the draft. At that point, I think the best that Barkley can hope for is that the Giants rescind the tag so they can access the tag money off the cap. Otherwise he just sits it out.
Hypothetical Bears deal..  
AG5686 : 3/18/2023 10:58 am : link
Bears and SB agree to terms now during this FA period...However,the Bears are not willing to give up 2 firsts.
They tell this to SB,then tell the Giants,this is our offer to SB....but we only want to give you 1 first rounder.
This scenario is possible...i do not think it has happened,but is doable
barkleys leverage...  
AG5686 : 3/18/2023 11:00 am : link
Is the same that Lamar Jackson has now....to sit out this season-retire,then come back next season as a free agent.
Why would any team  
Y28 : 3/18/2023 11:04 am : link
give up high draft picks to get Barkley when they can just pick up the phone and sign:

Ezekiel Elliott or

Leonard Fournette or

Kareem Hunt or

Devin Singletary
Joe Schoen must have had a pretty good idea what the RB market was  
Ivan15 : 3/18/2023 11:04 am : link
Going to be like. I would call him a genius except that he did increase his offer over the offer he made at the break.
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