I scout overthecap all the time. We constantly talk about how much space we have; what's our flexibility; etc. Of course want to avoid cap hell situations like New Orleans has found itself in.
But...We really do have an enormous amount of cap space next year. According to OTC, 3rd most in the NFL, 6th most in the NFL at 117 million. Even with re-signings of core players like Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas, and Xavier McKinney. We should still be able to literally anything with a few restructures, short-extensions, conversions of salaries to signing bonuses, any of the accoutning practices that have given teams players they want virutally whatever they want.
It seems Schoen just doesn't want to spend beyond what he deems a player is worth in his mind.
There were at least 2-3 contracts this off-season that I think the Giants could have mid if they were willing to overpay and work out through creative cap maanagement, they could have made it work.
Julian Love for example. Got 2 years $!2 million. Is he a great player? Absolutely not. But he's useful. We couldn't match that? Now we have to replace him, and I'm sorry, I don't think Dane Belton is really that good.
Marcus Davenport. Big Time Talent. 1 year $13 million. We could create the cap space to do that easily, and we can definitely use depth on the edge, and he's really a better than Ojulari at this point.
Now maybe they are just waiting til next year. Havne't really studied what's available. But it seems to me that he is trying to avoid the '22 cap situation at all cost.
Anyway, everyone is so concerned about dead money. But who really cares as long as they keep spreading into the future, why can't we just make some things work?
I think if you ask Schoen about dead money, he will have a different take. Just listen to his recent remarks on Golladay and getting the dead money off of the books.
Being smart with money provides flexibility when it is needed. Drafting well is the key to sustained success. Throwing big money out to grab whomever is at the perceived top of the market is how the Solder and Golladay contracts happened.
The Giants have $22.7 mill in dead money this year. That is a lot of money that could have been used to get some really good players. Kicking the can catches up sooner or later.
It is the cost of stupidity and sometimes it the cost of misfortune in the case of an injured player(s).
He and Daboll have a plan and are following it. They want to be successful EVERY year not just this year.
As well there could be a Barkley long term contract. Also, what to do with Williams and Jackson who's contracts end this year.
I can understand why team owners, who are paying out this money (especially owners who have been married more than once) might feel a little different about dead money than BBI capologists do.
1) Void Years - Schoen is not against using void years as an interest free line of credit. So long as that's part of your resource allocation methodology, there's really nothing wrong with dead money generated that way. You are borrowing money that's worth more today than it will be tomorrow (because of cap inflation). This can be a rolling line of credit.
2) Amortized Bonuses - The second type of dead money is the remnants of bonuses and restructures. This is money that would have been live, but you cut the guy and now it's dead. It's not good when a guy doesn't live up to his contract, but this is cutting losses. And it's better to not pay the guy more money just because cutting makes some money "dead."
3) Accelerated Money - This is the truly bad dead money. This is when you have guaranteed money in the future that accelerates when you cut a guy. This is a new burden on the year, and the result of wanting the guy gone so bad you're willing to eat pain. This is Kenny Golladay.
Exactly. The Giants weren't losing a guy over a 4-5M cap hit this year if they wanted him.
100%. He had no interest in staying, it was never about the money for him.
re: love, it is absolutely silly to say $ wasn't a factor. Here's a quote of his from january where he flat out admitted what should be obvious bc everyone in the same position should put their family first.
clearly ahead of UFA his ask was probably a lot bigger than what he got because the safety market has been a bust. cjg is still out there, byard is getting cut, rapp is taking multiple visits without a deal. had anyone wanted love more than seattle all they had to do was pay him more than he got, nyg included. they chose not to.
Giants’ Julian Love wants to stay, but has ‘to do the best thing for me’ - ( New Window )
As well there could be a Barkley long term contract. Also, what to do with Williams and Jackson who's contracts end this year.
If extend adoree and Leo and do new deal for dex, AT, saquon and X , All tommorow, we probably still would have around 30 million left on 2024 cap with everyone signed
Not enough for a spending spree but enough for rookies and maybe one more big ticket WR
It certainly did..Maybe the state tax thing was a reason...
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As you mentioned, the 2023 cap doesn't have extensions for Thomas, Lawrence or McKinney.
As well there could be a Barkley long term contract. Also, what to do with Williams and Jackson who's contracts end this year.
If extend adoree and Leo and do new deal for dex, AT, saquon and X , All tommorow, we probably still would have around 30 million left on 2024 cap with everyone signed
Not enough for a spending spree but enough for rookies and maybe one more big ticket WR
it may also make sense to treat next year like a year to go for comp picks and sit out UFA to some degree depending on who they decide to let leave. McKinney, Campbell, Bredeson, Holmes are 4 who would probably get comp pick eligible deals and seem unlikely to get extended this offseason and for mckinney to get tagged next year barkley and dex would need to get extended, which is possible but who knows.
how they feel about mckinney is a real wild card, he's obviously got a lot of ability but has also now missed chunks in 2/3 years. with the safety market cratering this year maybe we'll find out sooner rather than later if they decide it's a good time to try to get him extended early.
Dead money isn’t just the cost of doing business. It’s the owners’ profit.
If you remodel part of your house with the intent of making your house more comfortable for your use, and then you decide to sell it, what did you gain if it doesn’t raise the resale value? What did you accomplish?
You also have to factor in that this is another 'prove it' year for Jones. With the way his contact is structured, I think they want to see if he can build off last year. If so, I think you'll see the Giants be pretty aggressive in FA next year.
If he can't build off 2022, why would spend a bunch of money on FA this year is you need a QB in two years? It's a hedge year.
like i said above the amount of non-jones spending doesn't surprise me too much, just a little surprised they swung so big on risk/reward types.
https://overthecap.com/free-agency-spending - ( New Window )
Adoree
Thomas
Dex
Barkley
McKinney
That's probably 125 million if they bring those guys back. So there goes the 117 million in cap space.
Plus that cap million number at OTC is not based on top 51. So that's another 30 million minimum to get up to 51.
Adoree
Thomas
Dex
Barkley
McKinney
That's probably 125 million if they bring those guys back. So there goes the 117 million in cap space.
Plus that cap million number at OTC is not based on top 51. So that's another 30 million minimum to get up to 51.
Except there’s the amortization of the “$125 million.”
So putting it altogether, Giants would have to spend 160 million to bring their Big Six free agents back and get a back up QB
That's why I doubt Leonard and Adoree are coming back
So putting it altogether, Giants would have to spend 160 million to bring their Big Six free agents back and get a back up QB
That's why I doubt Leonard and Adoree are coming back
They are not spending $10 mill on a backup QB. TT was about $5 mill per...
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Big Leonard
Adoree
Thomas
Dex
Barkley
McKinney
That's probably 125 million if they bring those guys back. So there goes the 117 million in cap space.
Plus that cap million number at OTC is not based on top 51. So that's another 30 million minimum to get up to 51.
Except there’s the amortization of the “$125 million.”
Right. They can always borrow from the future. But Im just pointing out that they do not have a lot of cap space vis-a-vis the money it would take to resign their own free agents.
What they do have is cap flexibility to either bring guys back or sign free agents from other teams. Which is significant
Schoen has a few positional groups where if they drafted well and continue too they will have some bargain players.
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In comment 16070099 Vanzetti said:
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Big Leonard
Adoree
Thomas
Dex
Barkley
McKinney
That's probably 125 million if they bring those guys back. So there goes the 117 million in cap space.
Plus that cap million number at OTC is not based on top 51. So that's another 30 million minimum to get up to 51.
Except there’s the amortization of the “$125 million.”
Right. They can always borrow from the future. But Im just pointing out that they do not have a lot of cap space vis-a-vis the money it would take to resign their own free agents.
What they do have is cap flexibility to either bring guys back or sign free agents from other teams. Which is significant
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The Giants have $22.7 mill in dead money this year. That is a lot of money that could have been used to get some really good players. Kicking the can catches up sooner or later.
It is the cost of stupidity and sometimes it the cost of misfortune in the case of an injured player(s).
Of the 22.7 dead cap 19 was from the Golladay and Shepard contracts courtesy of Mr. Gettleman.
As much as I like Williams and Jackson. Let’s be realistic. Williams will be 30 next off-season and was finally starting to get nicked up this past season. I just don’t see a monster LT deal in his future - and if someone is offering it to him, I’d happily take the 3rd round and keep that cap space.
Jackson is a good CB. But no way he touches top tier CB mkney. And again, if I’m wrong, you have to let him walk. Hard decisions that teams like the Ravens have been making for a long, long time.
I get the marginal benefit of signing your own guys (because of familiarity), but ultimately look at a guy like Okereke. There's nothing wrong prima facie with investing in him.
You win the cost/benefit ratio by drafting well and getting big dividends on the very cheap rookie deal. And then you act wisely on the veteran deals.
The trick is how they handle a LW restructure.
Pinnock and Belton have similar to better size and athleticism at a much lower hit, and the arrow is still pointing up on development for both.
Safety only kills you if you have a serial screwup, or a does not belong athlete, starting. Not usually a premium position as the draft rankings indicate.
Keep in mind that Belton was a rookie. Love didn’t look that great as a rookie either and most people basically wanted him gone before Wink got here.
There are certain players that Schoen/Daboll and Wink are going to want to commit to and unfortunately Love wasn’t that guy.
And to be honest, paying a guy like Marcus Davenport 13M a season is the exact opposite of what the Giants should be doing. The guy hasn’t come close to living up to his potential and in no way is he worth 13M. He’s constantly injured and might be a declining player.
So - saying that Schoen really didn’t want to spend on Love is inaccurate.
Schoen likely said to himself “load up on value signings” and nail the draft. The only true signing that was a “splash” was Okereke and he’s making 10M a year. Which is pretty solid for a good linebacker.
Signing guys just to sign them for contracts over what they are worth would be a massive error. Schoen hasn’t done that at all so far.
Develop core players, draft replacements for high priced players that have or May underplay their contracts, establish contracts that do not role money forward than 1 year while thus keeping dead cap to a minimum.
It’s basically like a home budget: keep expenses down, save for a rainy day, repair items until the cost of repair is no longer effective and buy new.