Leonard Williams

Yes, has had a relatively healthy career. But he is creeping up on 30 and it is very violent game.

two key pieces. DE and OLB (replace Olujari). Williams plays the 5tech in addition to some inside work.

They need to add another Williams. If you lose him then make it two. Good luck with that and filling other positions of need. They played without this most of the year.

Right now they have two upper tier players on the D front (Leo and Lawrence). Hopefully Thibs takes a big step and the new ILB is the real deal.

Add a DE in the draft and this D will take a very big step as soon as next year.

This team does play in the NFCE and upper tier/elite fronts are needed.

Now if there are genuine concerns with his injuries from this year that is a entirely different stance on what needs to be done. If not you extend him.

he would get more than 20 year one and he could give you a high comp pick if we do not resign. I would prefer to work out an extension.

..to the defense's overall level of play to move on from, and I would argue his level will rise vs. 2022 as the surrounding cast and depth improves. He and Dex have been on the field quite a lot in the last 2 seasons.

I don't think the option of making him a true core guy over the length of the DJ deal is an option with the Dex deal looming. Would need to be a new money solution where both sides know he's here for another 2 years max and the Giants can spread out that hit.

I am guessing Schoen would prefer to keep him here but it's a tough needle to thread.

In comment 16070583 Tim in Eternal Blue said:

Quote:

In comment 16070539 No1MDGiantsFan said: Quote: Wouldn’t it have to just be a pay cut or extension? Or can they still push money out to future years even if he is not under contract? This is a great question. If the Giants didn't do anything with Leo's contract they COULD restructure him into the 2024 void year. Which would be stupid because they'd just add onto the 6M of dead money already assigned to 2024 for Leo's cap number. The Giants can just let Leo play out his last year of his contract (this year) and move on while keeping the cap hit to this year. Or they will extend him and then possibly restructure so they have more room to spread out the hit. Not sure which way they will go.

Makes sense! I hope they extend him AND he takes a pay cut.

yep.

You absolutely cannot get into the emotional hoops of the dead money and cap hits from bonuses.

The Giants signed Williams and valued him at 63M for 3 years. What year they parked those dollars for salary cap purposes is a balance sheet exercise.

The only worthwhile discussion left is what they value Williams at this and the following years.

If they believe he's a special, difficult to replace player -- then be prepared for another big agreement. Because you better believe Team Williams isn't giving out discounts if that's true. Barnes and Parker haven't given an inch to NYG.

Javon Hargrave, with similar miles on him, just netted 4/81m with 40M guaranteed.

In comment 16070688 christian said:

Quote:

You absolutely cannot get into the emotional hoops of the dead money and cap hits from bonuses. The Giants signed Williams and valued him at 63M for 3 years. What year they parked those dollars for salary cap purposes is a balance sheet exercise. The only worthwhile discussion left is what they value Williams at this and the following years. If they believe he's a special, difficult to replace player -- then be prepared for another big agreement. Because you better believe Team Williams isn't giving out discounts if that's true. Barnes and Parker haven't given an inch to NYG. Javon Hargrave, with similar miles on him, just netted 4/81m with 40M guaranteed.

Exactly. If they truly value his production, they’ll extend/retructure or whatever financial commitment they opt for. He’s had an off season to heal and return for 3-4 more productive years, imv..He’s a cog.

Williams salary for 2023 is 18M but he counts 32M against the cap and he has 0 money guaranteed.

So there is financial incentive for both sides to create a new deal. But when I hear multiple podcasters who have sources close to the Giants talk about how difficult it is to negotiate with his agents, it makes me think that the Giants may not find a new Williams deal they want to live with.

When I speculated they could use his money to replace him, that doesn't mean with just another DT. Maybe the plan would be to sign 2 less expensive run stuffing DTs and a FA CB with that money?

It appears there was/is no option in FA or at #25 in the draft to find a #1 X receiver this year so the Giants got creative and traded for a TE with the intention to make him their potential #1 receiving option. Then they added a fast separation WR receiver to compliment him.

Maybe the plan on defense is to be creative too. Maybe they would rather invest money in CBs rather than 2 high-priced DTs? I think Lawrence will get a market setting DT contract. Maybe adding more money and years on top of the Lawrence contract to a 29 year old DT who is starting to wear down isn't in the budget? Look at the receivers in the division and the Giants CB depth. Wink has said CBs are as important to him as the pass rush. Maybe the Giants want to spread the money around?

Obviously I'm just guessing. This is just my speculation and I think it's it a lot of fun to have smart people running the Giants football operation and try to think along with them.

I will be surprised if Leonard Williams isn't on the 2023 Giants but I won't be shocked.

I am not sure how bullish I would be on Williams on a 4-year horizon with 7000 snaps on his belt.

I'd certainly sign up for 2 more years of Leonard Williams.

In comment 16070772 christian said:

Quote:

I am not sure how bullish I would be on Williams on a 4-year horizon with 7000 snaps on his belt. I'd certainly sign up for 2 more years of Leonard Williams.

2-3 years, that’s fine

They are not getting rid of him. Outside of the few games last year, he is always healthy and plays a lot.

He is still the guy double teamed more than anyone on the DL.

Get some depth guys who can actually play, so he and Dex can get some additional rest

without LW, Dex suffers

You can easily move money from this year and guarantee his 2024 and still move on at 30 if need be. you just eliminate a voidable year.

In comment 16070479 George from PA said:

Quote:

More likely an extension. Big Dex and Lenord William are special. All the others are hopefully above jag.

Agree. But they both were asked to play way too much. Not anyone's fault due to injury but the fact that only Leo broke down was a miracle. Both guys need about 2/3s to 3/4s of the snaps they took last year.

The early reports out of camp he was arguably the best player on the field.

He hurt his elbow end of camp, then sprained his knee week 2, then got the neck injury which F'd him the rest of the season. Wasn't healthy for 1 game. Terribly frustrating year for him.

If he's healthy (and only the Giants know) he projects as a top notch player again.

see a trade during the draft. Esp with what the cost will be for Lawrence.

In comment 16070611 BillT said:

Quote:

Leo is “guaranteed” 18 this year if we keep him. Say we guarantee him 24 over the next to years. Say, 14 this year and 10 next year.

if he just plays out this year at 18, he should still get the 10, possibly more, next year from somebody, no?