i think so. and ezeudu the starting lg. cant imagine they are counting from lemieux with all the injuries and how bad he looked. i have a lot more faith in wyatt davis and tyre phillips than lemieux.
If youngsters step up and improve IOL of ezuedu,BB, SL, glow and mckethen may be workable
And of course once of our top two picks could be IOL. Heck it may be two picks over first 5 rds
Don't know whether Gates' drop in performance last year was a temporary result due to injury, or permanent. Nor do I even know if Gates would have gone back to C from G. But I would feel more comfortable with him still on the roster.
i think so. and ezeudu the starting lg. cant imagine they are counting from lemieux with all the injuries and how bad he looked. i have a lot more faith in wyatt davis and tyre phillips than lemieux.
That's what Eric has on the depth chart, Seems a reasonable take. With Ezudu/Lemieux competing at LG and Glowinski/McKethan (if healthy) at RG that's not too bad.
Center now comes a need, and starting a Rookie next to Ezedu is going to be tough. Especially against the cowboys and eagles who run a lot of stunts.
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
It was need either way. IMHO Schoen and Dabs had a view of Feliciano and he wasn't good enough to build on going forward. He was a one year stop gap. Time to move on and get better
Center now comes a need, and starting a Rookie next to Ezedu is going to be tough. Especially against the cowboys and eagles who run a lot of stunts.
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
If he was so important, why didn't the FO offer him more competitive money. I don't think the FO or Daboll valued him as much as you seem to.
They clearly didn't. But the question is, should they have? Obviously, we should defer to the opinions of the professionals, but it would help to have a sense of what their plan is.
Daboll and Schoen felt comfortable enough to let him go.
We'll see how things unravel.
I agree with you Toth. But guys like Gates and Felcianio held this team together last season, especially down the stretch. NOT guys like Slayton and Parris Campell.
Last season, JS promised to keep DJ upright, and look what happened.... we won a playoff game with a half decent O-line and a healthy SB.
Remember when we started Billy Price, Matt Skura, Nate Soldier and Hernandez? Remember when DJ had all these strip sack fumble problems?
My point is this: Don't get too cute, JS- re-invest in the O-line, they are what got you this far!
I do think the solution likely is in-house, maybe a Day 2 draft pick but somebody with some starting experience needs to be added. Doesn't have to be BPA, find another Feliciano.
I don't think we should sweat those guys leaving. However, yeah, they're going to need to acquire a couple of centers — and/or move someone already on the roster to center.
Center now comes a need, and starting a Rookie next to Ezedu is going to be tough. Especially against the cowboys and eagles who run a lot of stunts.
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
Center was just as big a need if we re-signed him. He was terrible at OC. At this point, we might be better off with Bredeson given a shot at OC until we have a better OC in place. I expect us to draft one and sign a FA.
But I guess they thought Feliciano was not as as good as Bredeson, which is bad if center is your only position. Gates was too pricey for what he is right now, but this quite a gamble
I don't think we should sweat those guys leaving. However, yeah, they're going to need to acquire a couple of centers — and/or move someone already on the roster to center.
That’s where I’m at. If anything it makes it more clear we will be upgrading Center. I don’t think the play in the interior can get much worse.
Feliciano spent the first four years of his career in Oakland.
Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
I don't think we should sweat those guys leaving. However, yeah, they're going to need to acquire a couple of centers — and/or move someone already on the roster to center.
That’s where I’m at. If anything it makes it more clear we will be upgrading Center. I don’t think the play in the interior can get much worse.
things can always get worst but for the majority of the season it was pretty terrible. it got a little better down the stretch but it was definitely an area that was bad for enough of the season that upgrading shouldnt be impossible.
They want their young bucks to play, and Feliciano was a bit of a disappointment last season. Pencil in Bredeson at OC, wager on Ez at LG, and see what the rest of UFA and draft bring.
My initial thought was Bredeson would be the interim Center
But, Ezeudu was mentioned as a possibility there last year and Lemieux practiced there a bit last summer. I wouldn't rely on Lemiuex for anything other than depth and even that may be on thin ice. But Ezeudu and Bredeson could potentially be LG and OC, unclear who would man which position yet.
But, Ezeudu was mentioned as a possibility there last year and Lemieux practiced there a bit last summer. I wouldn't rely on Lemiuex for anything other than depth and even that may be on thin ice. But Ezeudu and Bredeson could potentially be LG and OC, unclear who would man which position yet.
That said, I'd really like to draft a good OC.
At his best Bredeson is a backup
There is no doubt that either a vet center will be brought in, or a center will be drafted, or maybe even both
but at the very worst they are very solid depth... I've seen our seasons crumble too many times the past 5-6 years when 1 o-linemen goes down and backup cant keep the QB off his ass.
Not a huge loss but this tells me we're most likely going center in the 1st or 2nd round. Also, why is everyone so high on Ezeudu? I see him penciled in as the LG on a lot of these posts. I didn't see much that popped when he played last year. And he got beat out by Lemieux, Bredeson and a 1 legged Gates.
But, I don't it as a big loss as some do. Feliciano may have known the system and the OL calls, but he wasn't a natural center and was a terrible blocker. I see Gates as the bigger loss.
Not a huge loss but this tells me we're most likely going center in the 1st or 2nd round. Also, why is everyone so high on Ezeudu? I see him penciled in as the LG on a lot of these posts. I didn't see much that popped when he played last year. And he got beat out by Lemieux, Bredeson and a 1 legged Gates.
This is simply not true -- he was injured and placed on IR -- he kept getting starting chances and they also rotated him into games
Not a huge loss but this tells me we're most likely going center in the 1st or 2nd round. Also, why is everyone so high on Ezeudu? I see him penciled in as the LG on a lot of these posts. I didn't see much that popped when he played last year. And he got beat out by Lemieux, Bredeson and a 1 legged Gates.
He did and he didn't. He got hurt. Ezeudu can move really well. Yes he did have pass blocking issues, early on. But his run blocking is really good.
It's pretty obvious where the Giants think they sucked up front last year, though. We got manhandled by the Eagles and Cowboys up front. We can't just return the same OL that didn't match up.
Not a huge loss but this tells me we're most likely going center in the 1st or 2nd round. Also, why is everyone so high on Ezeudu? I see him penciled in as the LG on a lot of these posts. I didn't see much that popped when he played last year. And he got beat out by Lemieux, Bredeson and a 1 legged Gates.
Remember, injuries played a pretty big part in that. They certainly drafted him believing he was starting material. Now we'll see.
I’m mildly surprised that both Gates and Feliciano were allowed to leave. That said the pressure up the middle we had last year was totally unacceptable. I certainly didn’t want either player to start in 2023 but thought one would be depth. I have no problem with this decision and expect a center and a guard to be drafted next month.
I’m mildly surprised that both Gates and Feliciano were allowed to leave. That said the pressure up the middle we had last year was totally unacceptable. I certainly didn’t want either player to start in 2023 but thought one would be depth. I have no problem with this decision and expect a center and a guard to be drafted next month.
cheech- depth is exactly my point. It's one injury away from looking an awful lot like 2015-2021 Offensive line.
In comment 16071072 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But pretty sure if they wanted him back, he would be back.
________________________________
I agree with you Peter. Since his Dad lives in NY, I figured the Giants only needed to match another team’s offer, so I’m guessing 49ers offer was higher than the Giants wanted to go.
They brought him in, saw his play and decided he wasn’t in their plans moving forward. That’s encouraging to me. They’re not beholden to anyone who doesn’t do the job they expect. No loyalty. You know the “sin” this org. has been accused of exhibiting..
Part of the theory that the staff liked Feliciano is based on them not trying Gates at center. It's possible they just weren't that impressed with either of them.
Question I have is what are they looking for arch-type wise
I don't think we should sweat those guys leaving. However, yeah, they're going to need to acquire a couple of centers — and/or move someone already on the roster to center.
I'm not sure there is system for but there are or 4 highly regarded centers in the draft.
Part of the theory that the staff liked Feliciano is based on them not trying Gates at center. It's possible they just weren't that impressed with either of them.
Matt -- I think this is true; and while it's true that Gates was a fighter, he could not hold up for an entire game all season. Feliciano was also having problems staying on the field. They just were what the Giants had last year.
There was nothing there with those two that can't be replaced in my opinion
Yet another player released by Tennessee, Jones has been one of the league’s better centers since entering the NFL in 2012. He turns 34 in July and missed five games in 2022, but he missed just one total through his first 10 seasons, and he remains an above-average player. He has allowed just two sacks over the last three seasons, according to TruMedia.
Daniel Brunskill, G/C, 49ers (29)
Coaches say Brunskill is one of the smartest players on the squad, and he’s capable of playing any of the five spots along the offensive line. He and rookie Spencer Burford alternated at right guard in 2024, and Brunskill also served as the team’s backup center. If Brendel was snapped up by another squad, the 49ers would push to retain Brunskill and probably would play him at center. Link - ( New Window )
Has been get OGs and train them to play both OG and OC. (Rather than drafting pure OCs who can only play one position).
There was no one even GOOD at OG or OC last year. If you really want to upgrade the interior OL, you let Gates and Feliciano go, and don't worry about it at all. Clearly the Giants aren't worried. Maybe it's Brederson for now. But they could still do more work there before the season.
it's time to look forward for solutions rather than in the past. They drafted three OL a year ago, hopefully Ez is ready to win a starting job and Neal shows growth with his mental game, feet, etc. Got to find a OC even if it's a stop gap improvement so they can draft and/or develop one.
[quote]John Michael Schmitz is an outstanding pro prospect - his technique is generally impressive, while his strength and overall power are outstanding for the position. As a run blocker, he is elite and for a run-heavy NFL team, he could quickly develop into a pro bowl level player. In pass protection he is good but his production doesn't match that of his run blocking, which may limit his draft demand.
Expect Schmitz to be a first-round selection - and well worth one- in the 2023 NFL Draft and be either the first or second center to come off the board. [/qute] Link - ( New Window )
But they have 3 guys in house who supposedly could project to OC in Ezeudu,Bredeson and Lemieux. Bredeson actually seemed to play well at the position too.
Feliciano in my opinion was simply not a high level starter and Bredeson from what eyes saw with some more practice would be better.
Am I making this up or did Ezeudu take snaps at center last preseason? Maybe that’s the answer as finding an OG with experience may be easier than a center at this stage.
In comment 16071097 Sky King said:
Ben Jones had two concussions and was place on IR in December after the 2nd one. He was also release from the Titans after failing his physical. Great player but maybe he is stil in the concussion protocol?
Quote:
Ben Jones, C, Titans (34)
Yet another player released by Tennessee, Jones has been one of the league’s better centers since entering the NFL in 2012. He turns 34 in July and missed five games in 2022, but he missed just one total through his first 10 seasons, and he remains an above-average player. He has allowed just two sacks over the last three seasons, according to TruMedia.
Daniel Brunskill, G/C, 49ers (29)
Coaches say Brunskill is one of the smartest players on the squad, and he’s capable of playing any of the five spots along the offensive line. He and rookie Spencer Burford alternated at right guard in 2024, and Brunskill also served as the team’s backup center. If Brendel was snapped up by another squad, the 49ers would push to retain Brunskill and probably would play him at center. Link - ( New Window )
So you're saying we need someone tough smart & dependable
Leaning more and more towards OL at # 25. Schmitz is looking like that guy. I don't think we should dick around by trading down for more value. Scuttlebutt is he's gone by early round two.
Feliciano was always a stopgap at best. Would have been decent for depth but at this point Bredeson - or McKethan - has more upside. As would a 2023 draft pick.
Am I making this up or did Ezeudu take snaps at center last preseason? Maybe that’s the answer as finding an OG with experience may be easier than a center at this stage.
don't see Feliciano or Gates as big losses frankly. Thomas and Neal are the only irreplaceable OL right now. Everyone else is a journeyman or unproven.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
don't see Feliciano or Gates as big losses frankly. Thomas and Neal are the only irreplaceable OL right now. Everyone else is a journeyman or unproven.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
Good luck to Feliciano.
Agreed, I would put Glowinski as one we probably don’t want to lose this year. From an interior line perspective they drafted Ezeudu and McKethan last year for a reason. Ezeudu will hopefully step up and man the LG spot. I’m sure they’ll draft at least 1-2 interior lineman at this point.
Said Giants only interest in Gates was as a backup. They didn’t see him as a starting Center. He also said they had interest in Feliciano but it was as a 1 year vet stopgap but he also mentioned not to sleep on Bredeson at center.
is now a must.....Giants could trade down in the first and get a very good OC and pick up another 2nd or 3rd round pick in the process. The Giants can still make a trade too, if there’s one to be made. Bredeson can play Center and seemed quite capable, albeit during pre-season, but could be a depth piece there.
is now a must.....Giants could trade down in the first and get a very good OC and pick up another 2nd or 3rd round pick in the process. The Giants can still make a trade too, if there’s one to be made. Bredeson can play Center and seemed quite capable, albeit during pre-season, but could be a depth piece there.
We said the same thing 3 years ago. Everyone expected them to select a center early and then they surprised all of us by not drafting one. They liked Gates at center and hopefully this year they are convinced that Bredeson can be the guy. Even if he is I still hope that they draft one but I would prefer other positions selected in rounds 1 and 2.
But who TF is going to play center? And is Ezeudu just going to be penciled in at LG? I know everyone says we need a WR1 and we do but I think IOL and CB are our 2 biggest needs for 2023
He got upset at being re-signed before FA, or early on in FA, then with NG going to DC felt he could hold them hostage for a few more $$$, they still didn’t bite so he said goodbye.
What is whatshisname, our nondescript C during the DG years doing these days?
Seemed like a good guy but I’m glad we are moving on
His play was below average so we can easily find an equal replacement. Hopefully we find an upgrade. I really wanted them to go hard after a C in FA. Maybe they did. I think Bredeson can be as good as Feliciano at C maybe better.
Ezeudo is the starting G unless someone else steps up. If I were Lemieux I’d spend the off-season snapping.
David Syvertsen
@Ourlads_Sy
·
2h
Eagles are going to draft O'Cyrus Torrence in the first round and their OL is somehow going to be even better than it was in '22
Leaning more and more towards OL at # 25. Schmitz is looking like that guy. I don't think we should dick around by trading down for more value. Scuttlebutt is he's gone by early round two.
Don’t know if the value matches up at 25
We drafted for need with guys like Pugh and flowers
I only want to if the board matches the draft slot.
Said Giants only interest in Gates was as a backup. They didn’t see him as a starting Center. He also said they had interest in Feliciano but it was as a 1 year vet stopgap but he also mentioned not to sleep on Bredeson at center.
McKethan was drafted in the 5th round and is coming off a torn knee. Ezeudu - 3rd round - showed a bit of promise but couldn’t stay on the field and will basically be a rookie this year.
Think we need to be more realistic on guys turning into dependable starters that haven’t shown much. And that includes Ezeudu as well.
Lots of folks thought Lemieux was a lock to be a somewhat long term ish answer at guard. Turns out he couldn’t stay on the field.
RE: Despite all the evidence swirling there are still fans
Personally I think Bredeson is the third best OL on the roster. He should be the starting center and might be fine there. I think we have a greater need at guard. This might be Glowinski’s last year on the team.
Has been get OGs and train them to play both OG and OC. (Rather than drafting pure OCs who can only play one position).
There was no one even GOOD at OG or OC last year. If you really want to upgrade the interior OL, you let Gates and Feliciano go, and don't worry about it at all. Clearly the Giants aren't worried. Maybe it's Brederson for now. But they could still do more work there before the season.
Yes....no one was even good at OG or OC last year. To me, this is the biggest area of need. Can't count on several of the young guys to be the answer. Need a stud. Wide receivers can't get downfield if Jones has the dump the ball in less than 2 seconds.
No worries, we are in the presence of a master class
game reviews. He was below avg to poor last year. They mentioned possibly bringing Gates and Feliciano back AS DEPTH. Apparently they had NO interest having either starting this year.
Brederson showed pretty well last camp at C.
There are some who thought Lemieux’s best position in the pros would be center. Ditto Ezeudu. There is still the draft and UFA after the draft. They will sort it out, and the position will have more promise when they are done. Feliciano was signed as a stop gap period!
for Center, Dabs and the GM didn't just shrug their shoulders. They gave Mara a detailed, and prsumably satisfying answer.
Mr. Marra, I'm sure, will keep that information under his hat. The more mystery about what the Giants are going to do, the easier it is for them to make moves.
I’m mildly surprised that both Gates and Feliciano were allowed to leave. That said the pressure up the middle we had last year was totally unacceptable. I certainly didn’t want either player to start in 2023 but thought one would be depth. I have no problem with this decision and expect a center and a guard to be drafted next month.
This. I actually thought Feliciano was under contract and thats why they let Gates walk. I assumed we would draft a C in rounds 1-3, but according to Sy, this is a bad draft for Centers...
But they have 3 guys in house who supposedly could project to OC in Ezeudu,Bredeson and Lemieux. Bredeson actually seemed to play well at the position too.
Feliciano in my opinion was simply not a high level starter and Bredeson from what eyes saw with some more practice would be better.
But none of them played center at all in college. I agree about Bred being the best in-house candidate but its a tough transition to make in such a short time.
them sharing it with us. Maybe it’s Bredeson but there will be at least 1, probably 2 added before May 1. I think there’s a lot of potential at G, even without Lemieux. You got the 2 guys from UNC and there’s 3 young pickups who were highly ranked coming out of college … Anderson, Davis and Kindley. It’s up to Bobby Johnson to get these guys ready.
don't see Feliciano or Gates as big losses frankly. Thomas and Neal are the only irreplaceable OL right now. Everyone else is a journeyman or unproven.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
Good luck to Feliciano.
Feliciano played a lot better than Glowinski, and he cost a hell of a lot less, and he can play center.
This was a big loss, especially considering that Schoen has ignored OL in free agency so far.
don't see Feliciano or Gates as big losses frankly. Thomas and Neal are the only irreplaceable OL right now. Everyone else is a journeyman or unproven.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
Good luck to Feliciano.
Feliciano played a lot better than Glowinski, and he cost a hell of a lot less, and he can play center.
This was a big loss, especially considering that Schoen has ignored OL in free agency so far.
Take deep breath. Feliciano is not a good center, he’s barely average. Did it ever occur to you who Glowinski was bookended by? Hint: not good, and worse.
Daboll and Schoen felt comfortable enough to let him go.
We'll see how things unravel.
Did they?
Or did they just assume they were going to be able to get him at numbers they dictated, and it didn't happen. I doubt the plan was to have no center AFTER they spent what they in an FA thus forcing a pick in the drat.
Unless the plan is to throw Bredeson or some other random scrub out there at center. Sure feels like we've seen this play before. If no decent pick for a center is there when the giants are picking, and other positions of real value and need ar on the board when our picks come up, tell, then exactly how this is any different from Gettleman's tenure?
PS-Sure seems they are building the core of this team around what DG brought in, so far. And no, I'm not a gelleman apologist, just making note of what I'm observing.
If youngsters step up and improve IOL of ezuedu,BB, SL, glow and mckethen may be workable
And of course once of our top two picks could be IOL. Heck it may be two picks over first 5 rds
Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
A step in the right direction at getting better at Center,
as the types to not have a plan. I wasn't a huge fan of Feliciano; too many illegal man down field penalties for a 'smart center' among other things. BUT he was a decent 'body' at a key position, so I'm thinking they have a plan. Could be for someone in house could be FA but i also think its going to be in the draft. It seems that most SB contenders more and more have an above average to 'Elite' center if you can call it elite....
RE: RE: Feliciano spent the first four years of his career in Oakland.
Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
..who can't anchor. For every highlight with an interior IOL showing good lateral movement, there seemed to be two drives that were hamstrung by the pocket collapsing early. More JF wasn't the answer for me. As Sy said last draft season, veteran FAs are to keep the bottom from falling out. Need to aim higher.
John is a center and a very good one but he has to gain more strength in his upper and lower body if he is going to play a 17-game schedule in the NFL. Teams will load up and play a defensive lineman on his nose and it will not matter how athletic he is, he will struggle and need help, and a center needing help as opposed to a center giving help will be a big-time problem. A center who needs help is giving up the interior of the offensive line and the quickest way into the backfield. Nevertheless, because of the more athletic quarterbacks and spread offenses, having an athletic, light center is more of a positive than a negative in the new NFL. I what my guards to be able to play center but I don’t necessarily want my center to be able to play guard because my center should be more difficult to replace than a guard. John will get stronger and he is smart, and with better coaching, should be able to handle a bull rush with better strength.
In comment 16071413 Red Right Hand said:
[quote] In comment 16071043 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman. [/quote
Curious, why are you discounting resources spent on the O line last season; they a none factor?
The draft coming and maybe a second wave of FA. There is also the possibility they already have a plan in place with the current roster.
Given the past year and a half and the track record of Schoen and Dabol during that time frame your take seems unduly harsh and overstated
JM Schmidt (Bobby Johnson ran his pro day), he is listed as a G/C. I think they will look in that direction for flexibility. They will figure this out.
Its funny how some on BBI are acting like losing JF will
be our downfall. Don't get me wrong, I understand we need IOL help(and for Neal to step up), But Racer was right about Sy being right(thats a nod to Blazing Saddles) about veteran FA's. When we signed JF half the board melted down about how crappy he was. JS put together a line that was an improvement over previous years with help from the coaching staff and a scheme that seemed to play to our strenghts. I don't think there was much more upside with JF and they probably didn't think Gates would get that offer from Wash. But they have Bredeson and Ezudu and I believe they'll sign someone else in FA but their plan is to upgrade at C and I am HOPING they have a plan should their top choice be swooped up in front of them.
I thought Gates was a better C than Feliciano, and Bredeson may
be better than both of them, so I wouldn't be surprised if he is part of the gran plan and Ezudu is the LG, McKethen the RG with some vet depth brought in in case. and possible help in the draft.
Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
NOT signing a FA to the OL, and THEN choosing a different position player during the draft because the value was simply too good to pass up in managements opinion is very much what happened under gettleman. He said so himself when asked why. You Can't see Schoen passing up on a the best available center because some player expected to be gone in the top 12 , at a position of need for us, no less, is still there at 25? You can't see that happening in the second round as well? I can. That's EXACTLY what happens when you draft " best player available". Certainly don't see how someone saying " shades" is a strecth. You act like I said he was a clone.
RE: It is what it is, but it just puts a little more pressure
on them to hit in the draft. Not only that, but there needs to be a big improvement in Neal's game.
So you pass on best player available , possibly at a position of need, but best player available at any rate to take a center? Or you wind up without a viable replacement center through the draft because it worked out that value at other positions available when our pick comes up is too good to pass up? You may not be able to have it both ways.
RE: RE: RE: Feliciano spent the first four years of his career in Oakland.
In comment 16071413 Red Right Hand said:
[quote] In comment 16071043 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman. [/quote
Curious, why are you discounting resources spent on the O line last season; they a none factor?
The draft coming and maybe a second wave of FA. There is also the possibility they already have a plan in place with the current roster.
Given the past year and a half and the track record of Schoen and Dabol during that time frame your take seems unduly harsh and overstated
It's overly harsh to entertain the possibility they planned on having him back, and he decided to move on after they allocated assets they would have possibly used to replace him ?
How so?
Why is that so unlikely?
RE: RE: It is what it is, but it just puts a little more pressure
on them to hit in the draft. Not only that, but there needs to be a big improvement in Neal's game.
So you pass on best player available , possibly at a position of need, but best player available at any rate to take a center? Or you wind up without a viable replacement center through the draft because it worked out that value at other positions available when our pick comes up is too good to pass up? You may not be able to have it both ways.
I definitely understand your 'Shadesof Gettleman' comment, as fans we could all see the tragedy slowly unfolding while DG watched it burn. BUT I think this FO and Coaching staff have shown to choose more coachable players and the ability to get more out of them. SOOOO I think even if they did pass on IOL in the top 3 rounds, they obviously feel that what they have now is equal to what they had when JF and NG were here. Perhaps their worst case scenario is picking a couple of players on day 2 and 3 while also looking for talent come summer time. While we as fans have seen that as a disaster in the recent past, perhaps this FO/Staff have more confidence that this is how they want to allocate dollars and build the roster. Not saying itll work but I have more confidence in them coming closer to this plan working than the last couple of staffs.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Feliciano spent the first four years of his career in Oakland.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
NOT signing a FA to the OL, and THEN choosing a different position player during the draft because the value was simply too good to pass up in managements opinion is very much what happened under gettleman. He said so himself when asked why. You Can't see Schoen passing up on a the best available center because some player expected to be gone in the top 12 , at a position of need for us, no less, is still there at 25? You can't see that happening in the second round as well? I can. That's EXACTLY what happens when you draft " best player available". Certainly don't see how someone saying " shades" is a strecth. You act like I said he was a clone.
What kind of babbling illogic is this?
Gettleman was notoriously (and ridiculously) imprudent when it came to free agency, which is something Schoen decidedly is not. Why you felt the need to even mention the former GM is beyond me.
Schoen has options, and a competent coaching staff whose input he no doubt values (Bobby Johnson, in this instance). Clearly, he considered Feliciano (and Gates) as marginal talents not worth what it would cost to re-sign them, nor would it make sense to spend money on another free agent who wouldn't provide any more of an upgrade than they could already get with Ben Bredeson, who's already under contract.
As for the draft, yes, everyone loves to talk about BPA, but it's almost always balanced with need, which is why most are talking about the Giants drafting CB's and WR's early on. The needs are obvious. The best GM's are the ones who can strike the best balances, draft the best values, and navigate smartly. That's exactly what I expect Schoen to do.
RE: RE: RE: Feliciano spent the first four years of his career in Oakland.
In comment 16071413 Red Right Hand said:
[quote] In comment 16071043 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman. [/quote
Curious, why are you discounting resources spent on the O line last season; they a none factor?
Sure seems to me i remember Gettleman sinking shitloads of picks and resources into the o-line, year after year, FAs and picks, and them not working out. Why are we discounting that? you can claim he didn't, but he did. If that's the case, that is a similarity in my view, and, as you said yourself, he sank a lot of assets in to the line last year. I also saw gettleman do NOTHING for the loinge the LAST year he was here, nothing in FA, and then nothing in the draft, because the value wasnt there in the draft. sure seems to me if the value isnt there in the draft when we pick, for a center, but is for another position, and we tajke it, then you could very well wind up in the same position. Likewise, if he DOES pick a OL, and pass up on better value, that would also is similar to "mistakes" gettlemen made.
it;s funny how, if you like a GM, you can provide the excuse that injuries put him on the horns of a dilemna, but if you don't like him, then no excuse is acceptable.
We picks this guy schitt of schmitt or whatever his name is at 25 that Sy doesn't like because he has no sand in his pants and he doesn't pan out, isn't that the same thihing gettleman did? If he passes on him and takes someone of better value, and we are left with an unsatisfactory stopgap playing center this year and jones winds up on his backk agasin because the oline sucks, isn't that the same shit gettleman did?
Gettleman sucks ass, worst GM ever, yet it sure seems Schoen is building the core of this team around his picks.
Don't get me wrong, Gettleman absolutely fucked us royally in his last year here, and with Solder as well, but remember, everyone here was in on that signing at the time.
after year 1 everyone and his brother loved gettleman and wer singing Joe judges paraises, or do you forget?
Maybe my point isn't Gettleman was a good GM ( he wasn't). Or that Schoen is a bad one ( I like Schoen very much.) Maybe it's that the fans here are very subjective and fickle hypocrites with selective memories.
We could very well wind up with no viable center at this point. Injuries and lack of options during the draft did a lot, a lot, to screw us on the o line over the last decade.
Schoen could get lucky and he's a Genius, or he could get unlucky and get run out of town in a couple of years, and if he does, you can be sure Giants fans and BBI will find a way to villainize him on his way out the door. It's how we roll.
TLDR:We needed an upgrade from Feliciano, I didn't care for him. There now may not be better options avaible in FA that we can afford, and the value may not be there at Center when we pick in the draft. and none of it may have a damn thing to do with any plan of Schoen's.
C is the biggest need on this team by a wide margin going into this offseason. Shoen should be on the phone with the Colts about Ryan Kelly at this point. Can't go into this season with a rookie OC and nobody behind him.
RE: RE: RE: It is what it is, but it just puts a little more pressure
on them to hit in the draft. Not only that, but there needs to be a big improvement in Neal's game.
So you pass on best player available , possibly at a position of need, but best player available at any rate to take a center? Or you wind up without a viable replacement center through the draft because it worked out that value at other positions available when our pick comes up is too good to pass up? You may not be able to have it both ways.
I definitely understand your 'Shadesof Gettleman' comment, as fans we could all see the tragedy slowly unfolding while DG watched it burn. BUT I think this FO and Coaching staff have shown to choose more coachable players and the ability to get more out of them. SOOOO I think even if they did pass on IOL in the top 3 rounds, they obviously feel that what they have now is equal to what they had when JF and NG were here. Perhaps their worst case scenario is picking a couple of players on day 2 and 3 while also looking for talent come summer time. While we as fans have seen that as a disaster in the recent past, perhaps this FO/Staff have more confidence that this is how they want to allocate dollars and build the roster. Not saying itll work but I have more confidence in them coming closer to this plan working than the last couple of staffs.
And what I'm saying is, what if they don't? what if they don't think what they have can do the job. That therefore means they MUST somehow have better options? Why? Again, what if Feliciano just left? If the plan was to resign him, just because he left doesn't mean the guys they have are all of a sudden viewed as adequate. Again, you don't know that was thier plan. Or that spending a draft pick in rd one or 2 was the plan either. You HOPE it was the plan. Schoen isn't a wizard, he's just a guy. everyone, and i mean everyone makes plans on what they assume to be the case. That doesn't mean that's how things work out. Either way, I wasn't thrilled with Feliciano, but the point is there may still be pain coming in an area we have been feeling it for too long already.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Feliciano spent the first four years of his career in Oakland.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
NOT signing a FA to the OL, and THEN choosing a different position player during the draft because the value was simply too good to pass up in managements opinion is very much what happened under gettleman. He said so himself when asked why. You Can't see Schoen passing up on a the best available center because some player expected to be gone in the top 12 , at a position of need for us, no less, is still there at 25? You can't see that happening in the second round as well? I can. That's EXACTLY what happens when you draft " best player available". Certainly don't see how someone saying " shades" is a strecth. You act like I said he was a clone.
What kind of babbling illogic is this?
Gettleman was notoriously (and ridiculously) imprudent when it came to free agency, which is something Schoen decidedly is not. Why you felt the need to even mention the former GM is beyond me.
Schoen has options, and a competent coaching staff whose input he no doubt values (Bobby Johnson, in this instance). Clearly, he considered Feliciano (and Gates) as marginal talents not worth what it would cost to re-sign them, nor would it make sense to spend money on another free agent who wouldn't provide any more of an upgrade than they could already get with Ben Bredeson, who's already under contract.
As for the draft, yes, everyone loves to talk about BPA, but it's almost always balanced with need, which is why most are talking about the Giants drafting CB's and WR's early on. The needs are obvious. The best GM's are the ones who can strike the best balances, draft the best values, and navigate smartly. That's exactly what I expect Schoen to do.
I agree on all that. Still ,none of it means we have a competent center this year. We may not. You also assume they planned on not having feliciano. I'm not as sure as you are that's the case. That doesn't measn i regret the loss, or that I wanted him, I'm just not as sure as you are the PLAN was for him to be gone. I don't think it was. You point out the issues with the draft. I agree. Therefore, I don't think the plan was to have a hole at center. or just simply pray someone develops. Again, been there, done that, and seen it not work out.
It's Thomas and question marks. Some of the question marks have some upside, but there's really no proven league average starters on that line other than Thomas.
I don't think losing Feliciano and Gates is really the end of the world, but this was a bad unit last year, and we're losing two guys that our coaching staff determined were good enough to get playing time.
Apparently Ed Valentine at BBV has the same observations I do
"Monday’s surprising news that 2022 starting center Jon Feliciano is bolting the Giants for the San Francisco 49ers means that the Giants have now lost both potential starting centers — Feliciano and Nick Gates — in free agency.
They have not added any offensive line help.
The Giants were 24th in both run- and pass-blocking per Football Outsiders DVOA last season. Pro Football Focus ranked the Giants’ 14th in run-blocking and 24th in pass-blocking.
You would think the Giants, with a massive investment in quarterback Daniel Jones, a star running back in Saquon Barkley and a need to get more explosive plays from an offensive that might have been called ‘plodding’ at times last season, would be aggressively seeking upgrades to the interior of the offensive line.
Thus far, that has not been the case."- Ed Valentine
Not a huge loss but this tells me we're most likely going center in the 1st or 2nd round. Also, why is everyone so high on Ezeudu? I see him penciled in as the LG on a lot of these posts. I didn't see much that popped when he played last year. And he got beat out by Lemieux, Bredeson and a 1 legged Gates.
Remember, injuries played a pretty big part in that. They certainly drafted him believing he was starting material. Now we'll see.
I will never understand how some people make definitive judgments on rookies, especially those who dealt with injuries.
RE: So you're saying we need someone tough smart & dependable
It's Thomas and question marks. Some of the question marks have some upside, but there's really no proven league average starters on that line other than Thomas.
I don't think losing Feliciano and Gates is really the end of the world, but this was a bad unit last year, and we're losing two guys that our coaching staff determined were good enough to get playing time.
This is horseshit. Feliciano was trash. If he wasn't he'd still be a Giant.
so if he was ok with letting him walk, seems like the rest of us could stand to defer to him on this.
Totally agree, but deferring to the Giants GM and coaches doesn't work well for a lot of people around here (especially after the decade of clowns "leading" the Giants (into a horrible smelly pit)).
I'm pretty sure that Justin Pugh can easily be converted to center and never forget; Once a Giant - Always a Giant
Re. "Once a Giant - Always a Giant", can't there be exceptions? Especially for a guy who's an eagle fan?
and could he even reach Jones' hands with the ball if he's under Center?? but seriously, PUGH SUCKS! ANd he's a jerk. Why do so many want to bring back players who contributed to the shit show this team became?
You have to think they have a couple of guys they like in the draft and a viable option currently on the roster ( Brederson or Ezudu ).
Gates and Feliciano were average. I would have liked for one of them to be retained but its a position that needed an upgrade. I expect a Center by the end of day 2 to be drafted.
It's Thomas and question marks. Some of the question marks have some upside, but there's really no proven league average starters on that line other than Thomas.
could be the name of a '50s or 60s band, "Thomas and the Question Marks!"
But at some point you have to trust your drafts. We drafted Neal #7 last year and Ezeudu in the 3rd round. Those guys need the opportunity to play.
Glowinski isn't a stud, but he's an average RG. We have some internal options at C but we also have the draft and the rest of FA to add something to the unit.
Our OL looks infinitely better if Neal lives up to his draft status.
3rd rd is usually where you would draft a starting caliber guard who needs a little seasoning. Neal was drafted at 7. If these two guys become the goods, the line will be fine. If not, they will not be competitive on offense this year. Brederson is likely "adequate" at center and they will add competition. But those two are where the big upgrades for the line will come this year. That's on the coaches to get it out of them.
But at some point you have to trust your drafts. We drafted Neal #7 last year and Ezeudu in the 3rd round. Those guys need the opportunity to play.
Glowinski isn't a stud, but he's an average RG. We have some internal options at C but we also have the draft and the rest of FA to add something to the unit.
Our OL looks infinitely better if Neal lives up to his draft status.
Agree.
So much pearl-clutching from the “sky is falling crowd” on this thread. Not happy with losing both starter and backup C from last year, but neither was a stud and … it’s March. Can we at least wait until September before declaring this a bottom-five OL?
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
We'll see how things unravel.
i wonder if they want to give both ezeudu and bredeson chances to start and to not have to compete with each other at lg?
i think so. and ezeudu the starting lg. cant imagine they are counting from lemieux with all the injuries and how bad he looked. i have a lot more faith in wyatt davis and tyre phillips than lemieux.
Rookie also
If youngsters step up and improve IOL of ezuedu,BB, SL, glow and mckethen may be workable
And of course once of our top two picks could be IOL. Heck it may be two picks over first 5 rds
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our current center?
i think so. and ezeudu the starting lg. cant imagine they are counting from lemieux with all the injuries and how bad he looked. i have a lot more faith in wyatt davis and tyre phillips than lemieux.
And they may like Davis and kindley
That's what Eric has on the depth chart, Seems a reasonable take. With Ezudu/Lemieux competing at LG and Glowinski/McKethan (if healthy) at RG that's not too bad.
Either Bredeson or Ezeudu.
Makes the mocks with us picking a C high a little more realistic, too, IMO.
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
It was need either way. IMHO Schoen and Dabs had a view of Feliciano and he wasn't good enough to build on going forward. He was a one year stop gap. Time to move on and get better
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
If he was so important, why didn't the FO offer him more competitive money. I don't think the FO or Daboll valued him as much as you seem to.
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Center now comes a need, and starting a Rookie next to Ezedu is going to be tough. Especially against the cowboys and eagles who run a lot of stunts.
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
If he was so important, why didn't the FO offer him more competitive money. I don't think the FO or Daboll valued him as much as you seem to.
They clearly didn't. But the question is, should they have? Obviously, we should defer to the opinions of the professionals, but it would help to have a sense of what their plan is.
We'll see how things unravel.
I agree with you Toth. But guys like Gates and Felcianio held this team together last season, especially down the stretch. NOT guys like Slayton and Parris Campell.
Last season, JS promised to keep DJ upright, and look what happened.... we won a playoff game with a half decent O-line and a healthy SB.
Remember when we started Billy Price, Matt Skura, Nate Soldier and Hernandez? Remember when DJ had all these strip sack fumble problems?
My point is this: Don't get too cute, JS- re-invest in the O-line, they are what got you this far!
I think that's the Giants plan. I'd feel a little better with more competition there but Bredeson made big improvements last year.
If we thought that....I will assume the coaches and personal departments knows it.
They must have a plan
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
Don't sleep on Pio
That’s where I’m at. If anything it makes it more clear we will be upgrading Center. I don’t think the play in the interior can get much worse.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
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I don't think we should sweat those guys leaving. However, yeah, they're going to need to acquire a couple of centers — and/or move someone already on the roster to center.
That’s where I’m at. If anything it makes it more clear we will be upgrading Center. I don’t think the play in the interior can get much worse.
things can always get worst but for the majority of the season it was pretty terrible. it got a little better down the stretch but it was definitely an area that was bad for enough of the season that upgrading shouldnt be impossible.
That said, I'd really like to draft a good OC.
That said, I'd really like to draft a good OC.
At his best Bredeson is a backup
There is no doubt that either a vet center will be brought in, or a center will be drafted, or maybe even both
This is simply not true -- he was injured and placed on IR -- he kept getting starting chances and they also rotated him into games
He did and he didn't. He got hurt. Ezeudu can move really well. Yes he did have pass blocking issues, early on. But his run blocking is really good.
It's pretty obvious where the Giants think they sucked up front last year, though. We got manhandled by the Eagles and Cowboys up front. We can't just return the same OL that didn't match up.
Remember, injuries played a pretty big part in that. They certainly drafted him believing he was starting material. Now we'll see.
cheech- depth is exactly my point. It's one injury away from looking an awful lot like 2015-2021 Offensive line.
I agree with you Peter. Since his Dad lives in NY, I figured the Giants only needed to match another team’s offer, so I’m guessing 49ers offer was higher than the Giants wanted to go.
Always injured.
Looks like they roll with Bredeson
cheech- depth is exactly my point. It's one injury away from looking an awful lot like 2015-2021 Offensive line.
this is a slight over-reaction -- you have an all-pro left tackle and a presumably up and coming RT
from 2015-2021 there was no RT, and no guards
they have up an coming guard in Ezeudo and the reports are that McKethan is well-liked
The Giants will bring a center in. This group running the Giants is not amateur hour
In this system does fluid/move work better or power?
Matt -- I think this is true; and while it's true that Gates was a fighter, he could not hold up for an entire game all season. Feliciano was also having problems staying on the field. They just were what the Giants had last year.
There was nothing there with those two that can't be replaced in my opinion
Yet another player released by Tennessee, Jones has been one of the league’s better centers since entering the NFL in 2012. He turns 34 in July and missed five games in 2022, but he missed just one total through his first 10 seasons, and he remains an above-average player. He has allowed just two sacks over the last three seasons, according to TruMedia.
Daniel Brunskill, G/C, 49ers (29)
Coaches say Brunskill is one of the smartest players on the squad, and he’s capable of playing any of the five spots along the offensive line. He and rookie Spencer Burford alternated at right guard in 2024, and Brunskill also served as the team’s backup center. If Brendel was snapped up by another squad, the 49ers would push to retain Brunskill and probably would play him at center.
Link - ( New Window )
There was no one even GOOD at OG or OC last year. If you really want to upgrade the interior OL, you let Gates and Feliciano go, and don't worry about it at all. Clearly the Giants aren't worried. Maybe it's Brederson for now. But they could still do more work there before the season.
Expect Schmitz to be a first-round selection - and well worth one- in the 2023 NFL Draft and be either the first or second center to come off the board. [/qute]
Link - ( New Window )
Feliciano in my opinion was simply not a high level starter and Bredeson from what eyes saw with some more practice would be better.
Ben Jones had two concussions and was place on IR in December after the 2nd one. He was also release from the Titans after failing his physical. Great player but maybe he is stil in the concussion protocol?
Yet another player released by Tennessee, Jones has been one of the league’s better centers since entering the NFL in 2012. He turns 34 in July and missed five games in 2022, but he missed just one total through his first 10 seasons, and he remains an above-average player. He has allowed just two sacks over the last three seasons, according to TruMedia.
Daniel Brunskill, G/C, 49ers (29)
Coaches say Brunskill is one of the smartest players on the squad, and he’s capable of playing any of the five spots along the offensive line. He and rookie Spencer Burford alternated at right guard in 2024, and Brunskill also served as the team’s backup center. If Brendel was snapped up by another squad, the 49ers would push to retain Brunskill and probably would play him at center. Link - ( New Window )
I'm pretty sure that Justin Pugh can easily be converted to center and never forget; Once a Giant - Always a Giant
No, I think you are confusing him with Bredeson.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
Good luck to Feliciano.
xman do you know what we call below average O-lineman? Depth. We need that as well
I'm pretty sure that Justin Pugh can easily be converted to center and never forget; Once a Giant - Always a Giant
I hope your joking. 🦖 is not needed on this squad.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
Good luck to Feliciano.
Agreed, I would put Glowinski as one we probably don’t want to lose this year. From an interior line perspective they drafted Ezeudu and McKethan last year for a reason. Ezeudu will hopefully step up and man the LG spot. I’m sure they’ll draft at least 1-2 interior lineman at this point.
Didn't we got enough game reviews by Sy lambasting clowns like Feliciano for their incompetent play?
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At center.
Don't sleep on Pio
lol
We said the same thing 3 years ago. Everyone expected them to select a center early and then they surprised all of us by not drafting one. They liked Gates at center and hopefully this year they are convinced that Bredeson can be the guy. Even if he is I still hope that they draft one but I would prefer other positions selected in rounds 1 and 2.
What is whatshisname, our nondescript C during the DG years doing these days?
Ezeudo is the starting G unless someone else steps up. If I were Lemieux I’d spend the off-season snapping.
@Ourlads_Sy
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2h
Eagles are going to draft O'Cyrus Torrence in the first round and their OL is somehow going to be even better than it was in '22
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cheech- depth is exactly my point. It's one injury away from looking an awful lot like 2015-2021 Offensive line.
this is a slight over-reaction -- you have an all-pro left tackle and a presumably up and coming RT
from 2015-2021 there was no RT, and no guards
they have up an coming guard in Ezeudo and the reports are that McKethan is well-liked
The Giants will bring a center in. This group running the Giants is not amateur hour
I just don’t think mckethen was in camp more than a week before hurt
Not much of a sample size. Beavers looked decent but only a couple of weeks too
Not having a plan would be to resign your guy and see what happens.
I like it.
Don’t know if the value matches up at 25
We drafted for need with guys like Pugh and flowers
I only want to if the board matches the draft slot.
Thought BB was effective as a OC
Think we need to be more realistic on guys turning into dependable starters that haven’t shown much. And that includes Ezeudu as well.
Lots of folks thought Lemieux was a lock to be a somewhat long term ish answer at guard. Turns out he couldn’t stay on the field.
We have won. Everyone has holes
After draft, we will still have some
But probably majority will be filled
So much depends on how players develop
Our OL is especially the interior is very average.
Didn't we got enough game reviews by Sy lambasting clowns like Feliciano for their incompetent play?
LOL, so NOW you reference Sy's game reviews?? You conveniently dismissed/ignored several reviews when he heaped tons of praise on Jones...
We have options, better options than JF despite him being great in the room
There was no one even GOOD at OG or OC last year. If you really want to upgrade the interior OL, you let Gates and Feliciano go, and don't worry about it at all. Clearly the Giants aren't worried. Maybe it's Brederson for now. But they could still do more work there before the season.
Yes....no one was even good at OG or OC last year. To me, this is the biggest area of need. Can't count on several of the young guys to be the answer. Need a stud. Wide receivers can't get downfield if Jones has the dump the ball in less than 2 seconds.
Not having a plan would be to resign your guy and see what happens.
I like it.
I feel similarly. Hell, I'm all for overhauling the entire interior this off-season.
So, let's see how this plays out over the course of the off-season.
Brederson showed pretty well last camp at C.
There are some who thought Lemieux’s best position in the pros would be center. Ditto Ezeudu. There is still the draft and UFA after the draft. They will sort it out, and the position will have more promise when they are done. Feliciano was signed as a stop gap period!
Mr. Marra, I'm sure, will keep that information under his hat. The more mystery about what the Giants are going to do, the easier it is for them to make moves.
This. I actually thought Feliciano was under contract and thats why they let Gates walk. I assumed we would draft a C in rounds 1-3, but according to Sy, this is a bad draft for Centers...
Feliciano in my opinion was simply not a high level starter and Bredeson from what eyes saw with some more practice would be better.
But none of them played center at all in college. I agree about Bred being the best in-house candidate but its a tough transition to make in such a short time.
Yep, Don’t pay for average.
You guys need to ease up on the speculation.
You guys need to ease up on the speculation.
That's interesting. I seem to remember he put in the media last offseason adamantly that he wanted to play center. I wonder what changed.
Two teams have basically said no thanks in the part two years to him. His range doesn’t mean anything when he is beat at the LOS on passing plays.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
Good luck to Feliciano.
Feliciano played a lot better than Glowinski, and he cost a hell of a lot less, and he can play center.
This was a big loss, especially considering that Schoen has ignored OL in free agency so far.
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don't see Feliciano or Gates as big losses frankly. Thomas and Neal are the only irreplaceable OL right now. Everyone else is a journeyman or unproven.
I also don't think the Giants allowing Feliciano to leave says anything about how they feel about Lemieux. He's been injured a lot.
Good luck to Feliciano.
Feliciano played a lot better than Glowinski, and he cost a hell of a lot less, and he can play center.
This was a big loss, especially considering that Schoen has ignored OL in free agency so far.
Take deep breath. Feliciano is not a good center, he’s barely average. Did it ever occur to you who Glowinski was bookended by? Hint: not good, and worse.
We'll see how things unravel.
Or did they just assume they were going to be able to get him at numbers they dictated, and it didn't happen. I doubt the plan was to have no center AFTER they spent what they in an FA thus forcing a pick in the drat.
Unless the plan is to throw Bredeson or some other random scrub out there at center. Sure feels like we've seen this play before. If no decent pick for a center is there when the giants are picking, and other positions of real value and need ar on the board when our picks come up, tell, then exactly how this is any different from Gettleman's tenure?
PS-Sure seems they are building the core of this team around what DG brought in, so far. And no, I'm not a gelleman apologist, just making note of what I'm observing.
We'll see how things unravel.
They may indeed unravel.....
Rookie also
If youngsters step up and improve IOL of ezuedu,BB, SL, glow and mckethen may be workable
And of course once of our top two picks could be IOL. Heck it may be two picks over first 5 rds
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Center now comes a need, and starting a Rookie next to Ezedu is going to be tough. Especially against the cowboys and eagles who run a lot of stunts.
Feliciano was not perfect by any means, but he knew the system, made the right calls at the LOS and held down the fort.
Jones will now have a new Center AGAIN UGH
If he was so important, why didn't the FO offer him more competitive money. I don't think the FO or Daboll valued him as much as you seem to.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Try a different approach than just reinventing average or below average OL to become inexperienced starters Centers.
Evaluate the position in the draft and make a real investment.
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Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
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[quote] In comment 16071043 Big Blue Blogger said:
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Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman. [/quote
Curious, why are you discounting resources spent on the O line last season; they a none factor?
The draft coming and maybe a second wave of FA. There is also the possibility they already have a plan in place with the current roster.
Given the past year and a half and the track record of Schoen and Dabol during that time frame your take seems unduly harsh and overstated
LOL dinger!
This. He basically hasn’t played in 2 years.
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Are people really still thinking Lemieux is going to contribute to this team in any capacity?
This. He basically hasn’t played in 2 years.
agree. and he stank when he did play. a turnstile.
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In comment 16071043 Big Blue Blogger said:
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Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
So you pass on best player available , possibly at a position of need, but best player available at any rate to take a center? Or you wind up without a viable replacement center through the draft because it worked out that value at other positions available when our pick comes up is too good to pass up? You may not be able to have it both ways.
[quote] In comment 16071043 Big Blue Blogger said:
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Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman. [/quote
Curious, why are you discounting resources spent on the O line last season; they a none factor?
The draft coming and maybe a second wave of FA. There is also the possibility they already have a plan in place with the current roster.
Given the past year and a half and the track record of Schoen and Dabol during that time frame your take seems unduly harsh and overstated
How so?
Why is that so unlikely?
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on them to hit in the draft. Not only that, but there needs to be a big improvement in Neal's game.
So you pass on best player available , possibly at a position of need, but best player available at any rate to take a center? Or you wind up without a viable replacement center through the draft because it worked out that value at other positions available when our pick comes up is too good to pass up? You may not be able to have it both ways.
I definitely understand your 'Shadesof Gettleman' comment, as fans we could all see the tragedy slowly unfolding while DG watched it burn. BUT I think this FO and Coaching staff have shown to choose more coachable players and the ability to get more out of them. SOOOO I think even if they did pass on IOL in the top 3 rounds, they obviously feel that what they have now is equal to what they had when JF and NG were here. Perhaps their worst case scenario is picking a couple of players on day 2 and 3 while also looking for talent come summer time. While we as fans have seen that as a disaster in the recent past, perhaps this FO/Staff have more confidence that this is how they want to allocate dollars and build the roster. Not saying itll work but I have more confidence in them coming closer to this plan working than the last couple of staffs.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
NOT signing a FA to the OL, and THEN choosing a different position player during the draft because the value was simply too good to pass up in managements opinion is very much what happened under gettleman. He said so himself when asked why. You Can't see Schoen passing up on a the best available center because some player expected to be gone in the top 12 , at a position of need for us, no less, is still there at 25? You can't see that happening in the second round as well? I can. That's EXACTLY what happens when you draft " best player available". Certainly don't see how someone saying " shades" is a strecth. You act like I said he was a clone.
What kind of babbling illogic is this?
Gettleman was notoriously (and ridiculously) imprudent when it came to free agency, which is something Schoen decidedly is not. Why you felt the need to even mention the former GM is beyond me.
Schoen has options, and a competent coaching staff whose input he no doubt values (Bobby Johnson, in this instance). Clearly, he considered Feliciano (and Gates) as marginal talents not worth what it would cost to re-sign them, nor would it make sense to spend money on another free agent who wouldn't provide any more of an upgrade than they could already get with Ben Bredeson, who's already under contract.
As for the draft, yes, everyone loves to talk about BPA, but it's almost always balanced with need, which is why most are talking about the Giants drafting CB's and WR's early on. The needs are obvious. The best GM's are the ones who can strike the best balances, draft the best values, and navigate smartly. That's exactly what I expect Schoen to do.
[quote] In comment 16071043 Big Blue Blogger said:
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Maybe it came down to him wanting to return to the Bay area. He's originally from New York, but his family moved to Florida a long time ago. I guess he'll play guard, with Brendel remaining at center.
Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman. [/quote
Curious, why are you discounting resources spent on the O line last season; they a none factor?
it;s funny how, if you like a GM, you can provide the excuse that injuries put him on the horns of a dilemna, but if you don't like him, then no excuse is acceptable.
We picks this guy schitt of schmitt or whatever his name is at 25 that Sy doesn't like because he has no sand in his pants and he doesn't pan out, isn't that the same thihing gettleman did? If he passes on him and takes someone of better value, and we are left with an unsatisfactory stopgap playing center this year and jones winds up on his backk agasin because the oline sucks, isn't that the same shit gettleman did?
Gettleman sucks ass, worst GM ever, yet it sure seems Schoen is building the core of this team around his picks.
Don't get me wrong, Gettleman absolutely fucked us royally in his last year here, and with Solder as well, but remember, everyone here was in on that signing at the time.
after year 1 everyone and his brother loved gettleman and wer singing Joe judges paraises, or do you forget?
Maybe my point isn't Gettleman was a good GM ( he wasn't). Or that Schoen is a bad one ( I like Schoen very much.) Maybe it's that the fans here are very subjective and fickle hypocrites with selective memories.
We could very well wind up with no viable center at this point. Injuries and lack of options during the draft did a lot, a lot, to screw us on the o line over the last decade.
Schoen could get lucky and he's a Genius, or he could get unlucky and get run out of town in a couple of years, and if he does, you can be sure Giants fans and BBI will find a way to villainize him on his way out the door. It's how we roll.
TLDR:We needed an upgrade from Feliciano, I didn't care for him. There now may not be better options avaible in FA that we can afford, and the value may not be there at Center when we pick in the draft. and none of it may have a damn thing to do with any plan of Schoen's.
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In comment 16071178 barens said:
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on them to hit in the draft. Not only that, but there needs to be a big improvement in Neal's game.
So you pass on best player available , possibly at a position of need, but best player available at any rate to take a center? Or you wind up without a viable replacement center through the draft because it worked out that value at other positions available when our pick comes up is too good to pass up? You may not be able to have it both ways.
I definitely understand your 'Shadesof Gettleman' comment, as fans we could all see the tragedy slowly unfolding while DG watched it burn. BUT I think this FO and Coaching staff have shown to choose more coachable players and the ability to get more out of them. SOOOO I think even if they did pass on IOL in the top 3 rounds, they obviously feel that what they have now is equal to what they had when JF and NG were here. Perhaps their worst case scenario is picking a couple of players on day 2 and 3 while also looking for talent come summer time. While we as fans have seen that as a disaster in the recent past, perhaps this FO/Staff have more confidence that this is how they want to allocate dollars and build the roster. Not saying itll work but I have more confidence in them coming closer to this plan working than the last couple of staffs.
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Or maybe the Giants simply decided to move on. Although he's far from the worst center in the League, I don't expect he'll be a big loss. (I know - be careful what you wish for.)
Or maybe they miscalculated and assumed he wouldn't get offered better than what they put up, or assumed he would just accept it. They've done nothing for the O-line so far in FA. Shades of Gettleman.
"Shades of Gettleman?" Does Nate Solder ring a bell? Patrick Omameh? Maybe Schoen looked at the players under contract and concluded that there weren't any UFA's that were significantly better than what they had now, and weren't worth signing. Maybe he decided to wait until the draft to address the OC position, not necessarily in the first round, but before Day 2 is out. I don't know, but it seems to me he's nothing like Gettleman.
NOT signing a FA to the OL, and THEN choosing a different position player during the draft because the value was simply too good to pass up in managements opinion is very much what happened under gettleman. He said so himself when asked why. You Can't see Schoen passing up on a the best available center because some player expected to be gone in the top 12 , at a position of need for us, no less, is still there at 25? You can't see that happening in the second round as well? I can. That's EXACTLY what happens when you draft " best player available". Certainly don't see how someone saying " shades" is a strecth. You act like I said he was a clone.
What kind of babbling illogic is this?
Gettleman was notoriously (and ridiculously) imprudent when it came to free agency, which is something Schoen decidedly is not. Why you felt the need to even mention the former GM is beyond me.
Schoen has options, and a competent coaching staff whose input he no doubt values (Bobby Johnson, in this instance). Clearly, he considered Feliciano (and Gates) as marginal talents not worth what it would cost to re-sign them, nor would it make sense to spend money on another free agent who wouldn't provide any more of an upgrade than they could already get with Ben Bredeson, who's already under contract.
As for the draft, yes, everyone loves to talk about BPA, but it's almost always balanced with need, which is why most are talking about the Giants drafting CB's and WR's early on. The needs are obvious. The best GM's are the ones who can strike the best balances, draft the best values, and navigate smartly. That's exactly what I expect Schoen to do.
I don't think losing Feliciano and Gates is really the end of the world, but this was a bad unit last year, and we're losing two guys that our coaching staff determined were good enough to get playing time.
They have not added any offensive line help.
The Giants were 24th in both run- and pass-blocking per Football Outsiders DVOA last season. Pro Football Focus ranked the Giants’ 14th in run-blocking and 24th in pass-blocking.
You would think the Giants, with a massive investment in quarterback Daniel Jones, a star running back in Saquon Barkley and a need to get more explosive plays from an offensive that might have been called ‘plodding’ at times last season, would be aggressively seeking upgrades to the interior of the offensive line.
Thus far, that has not been the case."- Ed Valentine
https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/3/21/23648517/whats-the-plan-for-the-giants-offensive-line-nick-gates-jon-feliciano-nfl-free-agency-draft-2023
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Not a huge loss but this tells me we're most likely going center in the 1st or 2nd round. Also, why is everyone so high on Ezeudu? I see him penciled in as the LG on a lot of these posts. I didn't see much that popped when he played last year. And he got beat out by Lemieux, Bredeson and a 1 legged Gates.
Remember, injuries played a pretty big part in that. They certainly drafted him believing he was starting material. Now we'll see.
I will never understand how some people make definitive judgments on rookies, especially those who dealt with injuries.
I'm pretty sure that Justin Pugh can easily be converted to center and never forget; Once a Giant - Always a Giant
Re. "Once a Giant - Always a Giant", can't there be exceptions? Especially for a guy who's an eagle fan?
I don't think losing Feliciano and Gates is really the end of the world, but this was a bad unit last year, and we're losing two guys that our coaching staff determined were good enough to get playing time.
This is horseshit. Feliciano was trash. If he wasn't he'd still be a Giant.
You would've kept Feliciano bc of his leadership qualities? Glad you're not our GM.
I think there's plenty of leadership left in our locker room.
I'm fine with this, but not bc of that lame penalty call.
Totally agree, but deferring to the Giants GM and coaches doesn't work well for a lot of people around here (especially after the decade of clowns "leading" the Giants (into a horrible smelly pit)).
Alliteration happy?
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I'm pretty sure that Justin Pugh can easily be converted to center and never forget; Once a Giant - Always a Giant
Re. "Once a Giant - Always a Giant", can't there be exceptions? Especially for a guy who's an eagle fan?
and could he even reach Jones' hands with the ball if he's under Center?? but seriously, PUGH SUCKS! ANd he's a jerk. Why do so many want to bring back players who contributed to the shit show this team became?
More free agents available.
You have to think they have a couple of guys they like in the draft and a viable option currently on the roster ( Brederson or Ezudu ).
Gates and Feliciano were average. I would have liked for one of them to be retained but its a position that needed an upgrade. I expect a Center by the end of day 2 to be drafted.
could be the name of a '50s or 60s band, "Thomas and the Question Marks!"
Glowinski isn't a stud, but he's an average RG. We have some internal options at C but we also have the draft and the rest of FA to add something to the unit.
Our OL looks infinitely better if Neal lives up to his draft status.
Glowinski isn't a stud, but he's an average RG. We have some internal options at C but we also have the draft and the rest of FA to add something to the unit.
Our OL looks infinitely better if Neal lives up to his draft status.
Agree.
So much pearl-clutching from the “sky is falling crowd” on this thread. Not happy with losing both starter and backup C from last year, but neither was a stud and … it’s March. Can we at least wait until September before declaring this a bottom-five OL?