Do you think that Campbell, Slayton and Hodgins as our 1,2 and 3 receivers are a good enough starting receiving crew to go into this season with? I’d
say yes when taking Waller into consideration and assuming Bellinger being better in year 2. Sequan out of the backfield and Jones as a passing and running threat adds up to the team having enough speed at the skill positions to spread out defenses and cause trouble. Ideally, finding a stud #1 would be optimal. I just don’t know where to find him.
Although, I find Xavier Smith interesting.
I think the draft will be about interior offensive lineman and new defensive backfield help. After losing Feliciano it’s almost a slam dunk we are taking the best available center in the first or second.
But does the speed alone of Parris, Darius and Isiah for now make our
front line receivers enough going into this season?
One can make an arguement the talent is better than KC...but nearly all have injury concerns.
Staying healthy and OL development is a key.
Now, the best teams usually plan ahead.....and these WRs are on 1 year contracts and Barkley...so WR and RB better still be on the table in the draft.
The Giants have 10 picks.....but many are in the 6th and 7th RD.....Schoen did well last year....finding talent deep into draft....
I also hope they extend big DeX, Thomas and Williams as prices seem to favors teams this year....granted Agents know it.
If so it could reveal a couple things. Giants were in the market for a #1 receiving option that would have a 'cheaper' year 1 cap hit and not come at too high draft pick cost (i.e a 1st or even 2nd round pick).
Jeudy fit that bill but the problem there was he was going to take what seems at least a 2nd to get it done. In fact Reports were coming out that Denver wanted a 1 for him. Sutton might have been for less but had a 14M cap hit on him.
That says to me that the Giants put this quickly together when Waller perhaps supringly came available. They get him for their lower of two 3rd rounders and are able to covert much his cap hit this year to a signing bonus which dropped his hit to around 3-4M for 2023.
When they resigned Slayton to a pretty decent but not too high contract and then Campbell it feels like they see Waller as the #1 option and then Hodgins, Slayton, Parris as the 2,3,and 4 by committee.
Don't knownif this means they are officially out on any and all potential WR trades BUT it will have to come at a very favorable price.
They could have had Cooks for a 4th or 5th and 12M and doesn't look like they were interested.
I don't think they'd be interested in D-Hop or OBJ unless they get them pretty 'cheap' in terms of both any potential draft picks involved (probably a 4th or lower) and 2023 cap hit. Probably 8-9M or even lower than that. Maybe that 4M offer was from the Giants for OBJ. And Cards probably don't want to pay 50% of D-Hops salary. Pats are interested it seems to add another WR and could be more motivated than us to pay a bit higher price.
Does Schoen wait this out and get one at a really favorable price or are we out now altogether?
Guess we shall soon see.
Waller supposedly upset with Josh days before trade - ( New Window )
The WR Corps is weird, because there’s a lot of depth but no real #1 to scare defenses. I don’t really know how they’re going to keep them all, but maybe it makes sense because Robinson and Shep might not be ready week 1. Adding a free agent like obj doesn’t’ get them the #1 they need. If available, I think they need to use the 1st round pick on a #1 WR.
I have no idea who those receivers are, but I assume the Giants will have some targeted in various rounds of the draft.
I think CB will be the target in the first round, if one they like is there.
As loaded as the 2022 Eagles were - including at WR - they couldn’t quite close the deal. On paper, the Giants are several pieces away from competing with Philadelphia, and a receiver of the Brown/Smith echelon is one of those pieces. But I think the offense can be pretty good with what they have, if Waller, Campbell, Slayton, and Hodgins are healthy. That’s a big if, of course, but it also applies to the Eagles with Brown, Smith, and Goedert.
Right now we are 2 injuries away from looking very similar to last year.
I wouldn't force it.
Because there’s some upside. He played more games last year than he did in the previous 3 combined. Also the Colts QB situation has been a shit show.
Slayton
Hodgins
Campbell
is probably the worst WR corps in the league.
Add in Robinson when he gets back and Shepard as the #4 on the depth chart, still probably the worst if we're all being honest - or if not the worst it's not far from the bottom.
but...can you win with that group? Sure, the Giants did last year and as you mentioned in the OP, add in Waller/Bellinger, Saquon and Breida plus Jones and there are some weapons in the offense and that WR group (if healthy) is probably better than last year.
I don't expect the WR group is a finished product for the 2023 season yet though.
I wouldn't force it.
Depending on what tier they have the receivers that make it to 25 you are right. The CB and Edge class are so loaded this year. Its one thing if they take a WR that is in the highest tier remaining (even though he might not be the highest graded player in that tier). Its another thing if they drop a tier or two lower and 'reach' for one, surpassing much higher graded talent at the CB or Edge spot.
Here's a fair example of tier grading by the 33rd team. I don't agree with a lot of their grades specifically (about 3 too many WRs in the 6.7-7.0 tier) but it shows kind of a simplistic view of what it is.
33rd team Tiered Draft board - ( New Window )
Waller is most definitely a big add and they probably still have high hopes for their 2nd overall pick in last years draft too. Though returning from an ACL a player usually doesn't have full explosion until 2 seasons later.
Still sorely need a guy to have under contract for the next 4 to 5 years since the draft isn't only about next year obviously and most our receivers contracts are up after 2023.
Giants will most certainly drsft ankther young receicer doesnt have to be at 25 but i expect them to bring at least 1 rookie in.
Slayton
Hodgins
Campbell
is probably the worst WR corps in the league.
Add in Robinson when he gets back and Shepard as the #4 on the depth chart, still probably the worst if we're all being honest - or if not the worst it's not far from the bottom.
but...can you win with that group? Sure, the Giants did last year and as you mentioned in the OP, add in Waller/Bellinger, Saquon and Breida plus Jones and there are some weapons in the offense and that WR group (if healthy) is probably better than last year.
I don't expect the WR group is a finished product for the 2023 season yet though.
I agree but we have to look at it as the overall receving group which includes Waller and Bellinger. In that context it is a definite improvement over last year and probably puts us roughly in the late teens to early 20's vs. bottom 3 to 5 last year.
Still not really anywhere near most playoff teams or even any team in our own division but with our dynamic run game mixed in the offense could still be pretty good if guys actually stay healthy.
Would love to add at least one of a vet that we trade for like Hopkins/Jeudy or a 1st or 2nd round pick in this years draft.
Also, no other team that's good has bad WR's. You can cite the chiefs, but they are clearly the anomoly. I can't remember any teams in the recent past that has been good with worse WR's than what the Giants have.
The one caveat however, is that the Giants have some young guys who can get better. They will need to get a lot better because we are definitely one of the worst receiving groups in football.
Our staff is smart and will run the offense around the personnel that we have. It will prevent us from being much more than we were last year.
Also, no other team that's good has bad WR's. You can cite the chiefs, but they are clearly the anomoly. I can't remember any teams in the recent past that has been good with worse WR's than what the Giants have.
The one caveat however, is that the Giants have some young guys who can get better. They will need to get a lot better because we are definitely one of the worst receiving groups in football.
Agreed Kmed. Also not that Daboll/Kafka are bad but they have Reid who may be the top offensive mastermind in the game.
I would find it hard to believe they don't improve it further this offseason with a high pick or trade.
1)
Last year -- Engram out and he needed to go, promising rookie Bellinger added
This year -- Waller in and even if he gives us only 9 games -- he looks like a better more accomplished weapon. Belly has a year under his belt and is on the rise.
2)
Last year -- no #1 receiver -- Shep was the best of the lot with a lot of question marks and a reduced salary -- behind him were Slayton, and the speedy little rookie Wan Dale and a bunch of UDFAs that were perennial teases
This year -- no clear #1 receiver -- Hodgins, who became a weapon mid-season, returns, speedy Parris Campbell added, who appears to be on the rise and a scheme fit, Slayton and Shep return and a bunch of UDFAs that are still perennial teases -- and there is WanDale who was flashing before he went down -- who may or may not return
[c]Waller, Slayton, and Campbell, speed and burst wise, were all in the top 5 in the NFL in one of either speed, burst, or explosiveness last year - so there is a new dimension added to the receiver core that wasn't there last year
3)In my view even if no WRs are added the WR corps at least starts out better -- but with 10 picks int he draft we may yet see another addition
Its not a good group, but its not a brutally bad group like it was last year.
The obvious plan was using speed to open the field , pose a deep threat and keeping the Ds, especially LBs and S from cheating and playing down low, and giving RBs opportunities to pick up more yardage when popping the LOS or on swing passes and screens, and let DJ stay in the pocket more with receivers that can get open quickly ,while building an OL Ds really need to respect.
That said, they will draft their #1, or #2 this draft, as the off-season receivers signed are 1-2 year rentals while they build a strong young contender.
One thing I don't like is to hold injuries against a player. It's part of the game and most of the time I think fans put the "soft" labels on guys for legitimate injuries and it's unwarranted.
But let's see how this room shakes out by week 1. Personally, I wouldn't shy away from adding to the room. I don't think the Giants are a lot better than last year at the position. I still see a lot of hope so's and if's.
I think JSN and Jalin Hyatt are both going to be outstanding in the NFL. I wouldn't hesitate to use #25 on either of them.
As for the Chiefs, they had more talent at WR than some want to recognize.
There top two receivers, JJSS and MVS, both would've been our best receiver last year. Juju has a 1400 yard season on his ledger and two others where he was a smidge under a thousand. He has seasons of 7,7, and 9 TDs.
MVS may not be an elite talent, but he's a respected downfield threat.
Finally, while there may be some objection to this, but whatever you want to say about Toney, and there's plenty of fair criticism, but he's an elite talent in terms of when he is in between the lines with the ball in his hands. The Giants have no one like that anymore. Maybe Wan'Dale if he can stay on the field.
If the Chiefs sucked so much at receiver last year, why did Skyy Moore, a 2nd round pick with significant talent, barely see the field? They could afford to redshirt him. If Skyy Moore was on the Giants last year? Shiiiiiiiit...he probably would've been the #1 receiver on this team.
The Giants need to get some talent out of this draft. Without adding a free agent, I would still target two guys if the value was there.
The WR Corps is weird, because there’s a lot of depth but no real #1 to scare defenses. I don’t really know how they’re going to keep them all, but maybe it makes sense because Robinson and Shep might not be ready week 1. Adding a free agent like obj doesn’t’ get them the #1 they need. If available, I think they need to use the 1st round pick on a #1 WR.
Parris definitely has the skill set to be a #1. He’s dealt with injuries and poor QB play his entire tenure in Indy, if he can stay healthy, he’ll be a real weapon.
Value might match up best in round 2 as round 1 @25 there is a good chance a CB or Edge will be clear BPA and on a higher tier than the WR just due to how stacked those 2 positions are this year with top notch talent.
Round 2 will have guys like Tyler Scott (my favorite), Tillman, Jayden Reed, AT Perry, Josh Downs (if he drops), Michael Wilson etc.
If he stays healthy and with a better system and better QB he might approach it. A lot of ifs but possible.
Value might match up best in round 2 as round 1 @25 there is a good chance a CB or Edge will be clear BPA and on a higher tier than the WR just due to how stacked those 2 positions are this year with top notch talent.
Round 2 will have guys like Tyler Scott (my favorite), Tillman, Jayden Reed, AT Perry, Josh Downs (if he drops), Michael Wilson etc.
That's a fair point about the WR's under contract, however some could also be re-signed if they stay healthy and are productive. A year ago, who would've thought the Giants would be re-signing Slayton (not to mention Shepard)?
Ry I am 100% with you in wanting a more proven WR1 . No doubt. However Parris issue has not been talent it's been health. Last year was his first full season but in a terrible situation. This is the kind of receiver Daboll knows how to use. Im not predicting 1200 yds for him or anything like that but he does have some upside if he can stay healthy or having an 800-900 yd season and being a strong complement to Waller, Slayton and Hodgins. Again that is probably ceiling with the floor him being out most of the year with another injury lol. I agree he is likely not a high level WR1 but he does have a pretty strong WR2 ceiling of things fall into place for him.
Quote:
This almost guarantees a WR to be taken in the top 3 rounds and likely in the 1st two. They are going to want an additional guy (besides just W-Rob) who is cost controlled with high upside for the next 4-5 years.
Value might match up best in round 2 as round 1 @25 there is a good chance a CB or Edge will be clear BPA and on a higher tier than the WR just due to how stacked those 2 positions are this year with top notch talent.
Round 2 will have guys like Tyler Scott (my favorite), Tillman, Jayden Reed, AT Perry, Josh Downs (if he drops), Michael Wilson etc.
That's a fair point about the WR's under contract, however some could also be re-signed if they stay healthy and are productive. A year ago, who would've thought the Giants would be re-signing Slayton (not to mention Shepard)?
Absolutely but aside from maybe Hodgins or the injury prone (at least until this point) Cambpell no one might be worth re-signing. I think they'll really want to add a guy high that they think has WR1 potential that will be cost controlled for the next 4-5 years.
Quote:
Darius Slayton is more like a 3rd or 4th receiver, and he has had a significantly better career than Parris Campbell.
Ry I am 100% with you in wanting a more proven WR1 . No doubt. However Parris issue has not been talent it's been health. Last year was his first full season but in a terrible situation. This is the kind of receiver Daboll knows how to use. Im not predicting 1200 yds for him or anything like that but he does have some upside if he can stay healthy or having an 800-900 yd season and being a strong complement to Waller, Slayton and Hodgins. Again that is probably ceiling with the floor him being out most of the year with another injury lol. I agree he is likely not a high level WR1 but he does have a pretty strong WR2 ceiling of things fall into place for him.
The more I watch Campbell, the more I like him. To me, at worst he is an upgrade over Richie James. He may not be a #1 (there's an ever shrinking list of guys I'd consider true 1s anyway). I think he can absolutely push any of the current WRs for targets from Jones(Hodgins and Slayton). Campbell can play...just has to avoid the injury bug(like the rest of the team for the past 5 years)
One can make an arguement the talent is better than KC...but nearly all have injury concerns.
Staying healthy and OL development is a key.
Now, the best teams usually plan ahead.....and these WRs are on 1 year contracts and Barkley...so WR and RB better still be on the table in the draft.
The Giants have 10 picks.....but many are in the 6th and 7th RD.....Schoen did well last year....finding talent deep into draft....
I also hope they extend big DeX, Thomas and Williams as prices seem to favors teams this year....granted Agents know it.
All for clustering wr and cb rds 5-7. Take a shot at developing guys with some traits
He is a JAG fellas. BBI over here with some saying he has #1 upside.
Slayton isn’t a 1 and he has had a significantly better career.
Giants still have a below average WR group. I fully expect 25 to be a WR if we don’t make a trade. JS added some low end depth pieces to fill out depth chart and to also make people think we could go a diff direction at 25. I fully expect a WR to be called at 25 as long as value matches up (flowers, Addison, Johnston, jsn)
I think we have some young guys that could progress as #2's, but as of now none of them are.
In this system with a much better QB if he stays healthy no reason to think he can't eclipse 700-800 yds. Will it happen, who knows ? but it certainly is a possibility. He is talented. Probably not quite a high level WR1 but a good fit here.