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Big Blue View on the OL...

Spider56 : 3/21/2023 9:56 am
Good summary.
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Don't know  
Y28 : 3/21/2023 10:20 am : link
if BBI fans realize that Luke Wypler of Ohio State grew up in Ho Ho Kus (few miles from the Stadium) and played HS ball at St Joe's in Montvale.

He will certainly be attending the Giants Local Pro Day in April.
Ed and Pat have been all about drafting an OC high for a while now.  
Klaatu : 3/21/2023 10:23 am : link
I don't know if #25 is likely, or even necessary, but I'd like to see them draft one before Day 3, depending on how things shake out.
Can’t really agree with this  
BillT : 3/21/2023 10:41 am : link
I think they were doing well up to the “prioritize selecting a center”. Now, that depends on what they mean by prioritizing. If they mean day 1 or 2 I don’t think so. If it means day 3 then sure. But a day 3 center isn’t really prioritizing. So, they’ll get one or two OLs with our 7(?) day 3 picks. Priority. The real priorities are still WR and CB.
second round center  
Chip : 3/21/2023 10:47 am : link
makes a lot of sense. There are a number of them Wypler,Schmitz, Tippman to name a few. Fans want a WR in Rd 1 but after JSN, Addison and Johnston who maybe gone you are reaching for Flowers a smallish quick player just like Robinson and the injury prone Shepher.

One possibility draft Torrence in Rd 1 and a center in Round 2 and fix the OL once and for all. It has been a decade since Chris Snee and the OL has been terrible ever since. The OL ruined the end of Eli's career who had very little movement and with no pocket he was in trouble and it showed.

DJ stuck in the pocket with Garrett who was used to a great OL in Dallas and had a system for a pocket passer. That didn't work with our OL. Kafka and Daboll rolled Jones out of the pocket and he played much better. If you give Jones a pocket and allow him to roll out the team will be much better.

The other option is to move up in the draft and get one of the big
I'd still be surprised if they don't grab a vet older center  
Blue21 : 3/21/2023 11:04 am : link
And I d be surprised if the grab one in the first round of the draft. Day 2 more likely
RE: second round center  
Blue21 : 3/21/2023 11:07 am : link
In comment 16071589 Chip said:
Quote:
makes a lot of sense. There are a number of them Wypler,Schmitz, Tippman to name a few. Fans want a WR in Rd 1 but after JSN, Addison and Johnston who maybe gone you are reaching for Flowers a smallish quick player just like Robinson and the injury prone Shepher.

One possibility draft Torrence in Rd 1 and a center in Round 2 and fix the OL once and for all. It has been a decade since Chris Snee and the OL has been terrible ever since. The OL ruined the end of Eli's career who had very little movement and with no pocket he was in trouble and it showed.

DJ stuck in the pocket with Garrett who was used to a great OL in Dallas and had a system for a pocket passer. That didn't work with our OL. Kafka and Daboll rolled Jones out of the pocket and he played much better. If you give Jones a pocket and allow him to roll out the team will be much better.

The other option is to move up in the draft and get one of the big
Totally agree with your statement about ruining the end of Eli's career. He became a .500 QB because his Oline sucked.
Tippman in round 2  
jeff57 : 3/21/2023 11:15 am : link
Would make a lot of sense. Seems more athletic than Schmitz.
RE: RE: second round center  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2023 11:26 am : link
In comment 16071625 Blue21 said:
Quote:



Totally agree with your statement about ruining the end of Eli's career. He became a .500 QB because his Oline sucked.


Totally agree with this statement except its total BS. One can actually look these things up. Fact is that Eli's stats in his last 5 years were almost identical to his stats during the 5-year 7/11 Super Bowl runs. He actually had the most productive three-year run of his career 2014-2016 with Odell before he got hurt. His final year, 2018, was actually at least from a stats perspective the 4th most productive year of his career. Ultimately what the stats tend to show is that there was almost no correlation between Eli's productivity and the OL, but there was a huge correlation between Eli having weapons or not.

Now obviously the team didn't do anywhere near as well in the latter part of his career, but you can make the case the big culprit was the defense that was ranked in the 30s most of those years and the one year they went and out and bought the best D they could they won 11 games and made their only playoffs of the decade. I wonder if there is a lesson in that?

I wonder if BBV  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/21/2023 11:29 am : link
would posit nonsense like DJ is "probably not" as good as Mahomes.

Until they do, I think we can take their opinion more seriously than other "experts."
RE: second round center  
allstarjim : 3/21/2023 11:32 am : link
In comment 16071589 Chip said:
Quote:
makes a lot of sense. There are a number of them Wypler,Schmitz, Tippman to name a few. Fans want a WR in Rd 1 but after JSN, Addison and Johnston who maybe gone you are reaching for Flowers a smallish quick player just like Robinson and the injury prone Shepher.

One possibility draft Torrence in Rd 1 and a center in Round 2 and fix the OL once and for all. It has been a decade since Chris Snee and the OL has been terrible ever since. The OL ruined the end of Eli's career who had very little movement and with no pocket he was in trouble and it showed.

DJ stuck in the pocket with Garrett who was used to a great OL in Dallas and had a system for a pocket passer. That didn't work with our OL. Kafka and Daboll rolled Jones out of the pocket and he played much better. If you give Jones a pocket and allow him to roll out the team will be much better.

The other option is to move up in the draft and get one of the big


Jalin Hyatt, step on up.
how they set their board  
Dave on the UWS : 3/21/2023 11:36 am : link
will be fascinating. I think its safe to say BPA amongst WR, IOL, CB, DL. same with rd 2 and 3.
Herring for lunch  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2023 11:37 am : link
Ah yes. A favorite BBI stategy. Lose the argument on the facts, find a red herring. I may not have made the Jones-Mahomes comparison as artfully as I should but the context I was referring to was clearly in the future, ie, Jones will probably never be as good as Mahomes, but then again who cares about context when you can just throw shit at the wall!

Then again I stand on my record as being one of the very few media type folks who said early last fall that this was a way better team than people were thinking; that they were certainly capable of winning 9-10 games and competing for a playoff spot.
RE: Can’t really agree with this  
Red Right Hand : 3/21/2023 11:42 am : link
In comment 16071579 BillT said:
Quote:
I think they were doing well up to the “prioritize selecting a center”. Now, that depends on what they mean by prioritizing. If they mean day 1 or 2 I don’t think so. If it means day 3 then sure. But a day 3 center isn’t really prioritizing. So, they’ll get one or two OLs with our 7(?) day 3 picks. Priority. The real priorities are still WR and CB.
I think center is a greater need than WR at this point.

Much more comfortable going with the WRs on the roster than I am with the potential centers on the roster.
RE: how they set their board  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2023 11:43 am : link
In comment 16071672 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
will be fascinating. I think its safe to say BPA amongst WR, IOL, CB, DL. same with rd 2 and 3.


Its an interesting comment but it is simply not the way teams go into the draft. They will know either the 1-2 players they really like OR more likely they will go into the draft fully intending to target a particular position and they will have a strategy in place how to approach it (ie do we trade up, trade down etc)
Schoen commented last year  
Dave on the UWS : 3/21/2023 12:20 pm : link
that they had groups of players in tiers (the Giants used to use rows), and they make their decisions based on that. They don't necessarily "target" one or two players and look to move around to get them. Your view Colin, doesn't add up to what was inferred last year.
I hope they add  
moaltch : 3/21/2023 12:29 pm : link
a veteran center (McGovern? Jones?) to the mix.
RE: RE: RE: second round center  
Thegratefulhead : 3/21/2023 12:45 pm : link
In comment 16071658 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
In comment 16071625 Blue21 said:


Quote:





Totally agree with your statement about ruining the end of Eli's career. He became a .500 QB because his Oline sucked.



Totally agree with this statement except its total BS. One can actually look these things up. Fact is that Eli's stats in his last 5 years were almost identical to his stats during the 5-year 7/11 Super Bowl runs. He actually had the most productive three-year run of his career 2014-2016 with Odell before he got hurt. His final year, 2018, was actually at least from a stats perspective the 4th most productive year of his career. Ultimately what the stats tend to show is that there was almost no correlation between Eli's productivity and the OL, but there was a huge correlation between Eli having weapons or not.

Now obviously the team didn't do anywhere near as well in the latter part of his career, but you can make the case the big culprit was the defense that was ranked in the 30s most of those years and the one year they went and out and bought the best D they could they won 11 games and made their only playoffs of the decade. I wonder if there is a lesson in that?
Listen up BBI.

Here are some facts.

Things Colin has said.

Jones and the Giants were better than people thought under Judge. The last 16 or so healthy starts for Jones the Giants were actually ~.500 with a total crap roster.

Before the the season he said we could could conceivably win 9-10 games.


No one was saying this.

Colin was.

He was correct.

We should all listen to him regarding the weapons because he is correct again. The evidence is all over the NFL. Big plays make the difference. Waller can make a difference. Parris can make a difference. A healthy Wandale can break one off.

Justin Jefferson changes the way you can play defense.

There is a difference.
RE: Herring for lunch  
chick310 : 3/21/2023 6:26 pm : link
In comment 16071674 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Ah yes. A favorite BBI stategy. Lose the argument on the facts, find a red herring. I may not have made the Jones-Mahomes comparison as artfully as I should but the context I was referring to was clearly in the future, ie, Jones will probably never be as good as Mahomes, but then again who cares about context when you can just throw shit at the wall!

Then again I stand on my record as being one of the very few media type folks who said early last fall that this was a way better team than people were thinking; that they were certainly capable of winning 9-10 games and competing for a playoff spot.


Your record is a little more blurred than you think. As are the facts and context you bring to the table on many topics.
But please keep contributing as the opinions and debates can be worthwhile.

And many don't mind seeing a victory lap at times in posts as long you also remember comments like Jones-Mahomes (above) and ridiculously comparing the NYG OL-Eagles OL are also fair game.
RE: RE: Herring for lunch  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2023 8:17 pm : link
In comment 16072069 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 16071674 Chick said:


And many don't mind seeing a victory lap at times in posts as long you also remember comments like Jones-Mahomes (above) and ridiculously comparing the NYG OL-Eagles OL are also fair game.


I normally have a rule about engaging with Chick (who I am convinced is Coogs in disguise!) However, the one thing that absolutely pisses me off about this site is the times peoplke take what I have said and either deliberately or otherwise misquote it or take it out of context. In the case of Jones what I actually said was that I thought Jones has a really unique set of tools with his athleticism and arm talent and while he will probably never be as good as Mahomes he still has a chance to be a real match-up problem for opposing defenses. Re the OL I can say for sure that I have ever compared the Giants OL to Philly. However, there was a debate going on the the Philly OL was THE best in the league and I simply said that I didn't see how an OL that gave up 44 sacks (only 5 fewer than the Giants) computes as the best OL in the league. The math for the Eagles just doesn't add up.
RE: RE: RE: Herring for lunch  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2023 8:45 pm : link
In comment 16072212 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
In comment 16072069 chick310 said:


Quote:


In comment 16071674 Chick said:


And many don't mind seeing a victory lap at times in posts as long you also remember comments like Jones-Mahomes (above) and ridiculously comparing the NYG OL-Eagles OL are also fair game.



I normally have a rule about engaging with Chick (who I am convinced is Coogs in disguise!) However, the one thing that absolutely pisses me off about this site is the times peoplke take what I have said and either deliberately or otherwise misquote it or take it out of context. In the case of Jones what I actually said was that I thought Jones has a really unique set of tools with his athleticism and arm talent and while he will probably never be as good as Mahomes he still has a chance to be a real match-up problem for opposing defenses. Re the OL I can say for sure that I have ever compared the Giants OL to Philly. However, there was a debate going on the the Philly OL was THE best in the league and I simply said that I didn't see how an OL that gave up 44 sacks (only 5 fewer than the Giants) computes as the best OL in the league. The math for the Eagles just doesn't add up.


But the Eagles are the best in the league at pushing the pile..
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