Gates and Feliciano, everyone with have the Giants going with an interior lineman in round 1. But it seems like there wouldn't be that much separation in talent if they waited until day 2.
Gates and Feliciano, everyone with have the Giants going with an interior lineman in round 1. But it seems like there wouldn't be that much separation in talent if they waited until day 2.
Not to mention, where the BPA crowd when this is brought up. Hear it all the time when WR is projected.
What would it cost the Giants to move up to around the
Do your homework. They haven't taken an IOL or an ILB in the 1st round in 30+ years. They aren't taking a Center in round 1 unless they think he is a shoe in HOFer lol.
In the audio of the link below. Cap economics factor. Even if they don't see QJ as a fit, maybe they see Hyatt as one. If they don't like the WRs on the board in the first, they probably roll the dice on a guy like Ringo or Bresee before going for OC.
We don't have any idea how they stack these guys either but there isn't a consensus round 1 OC prospect this year. So the Giants would need to break from the philosophy Schoen outlined before and be somewhat outliers in their OC evals. Day 2 is very live for IOL imo. I just don't see it at 25. Schoen on premium positions in the draft - ( New Window )
RE: I agree with Jon C. No way they pass on Johnson if he's there
In the audio of the link below. Cap economics factor. Even if they don't see QJ as a fit, maybe they see Hyatt as one. If they don't like the WRs on the board in the first, they probably roll the dice on a guy like Ringo or Bresee before going for OC.
We don't have any idea how they stack these guys either but there isn't a consensus round 1 OC prospect this year. So the Giants would need to break from the philosophy Schoen outlined before and be somewhat outliers in their OC evals. Day 2 is very live for IOL imo. I just don't see it at 25. Schoen on premium positions in the draft - ( New Window )
Exactly. When possible He targets the lower salaried positions in FA (for instance ILB and TE) and then the premium positions high. Last year our top 4 picks were Edge, OT, WR and CB. This year I doubt we see ILB, IOL,S, RB or TE in rounds 1 or 2.
This one is a weird mock for me, because I just don't see some of these players going that high, particularly Kincaid.
I'm a little surprised to see Hyatt falling out of the first round, he'd be a guy I'd be in on at #25.
Cam Smith, CB South Carolina, also not in this mock. He has a lot of traits I would think the Giants would like.
I'd sooner the Giants take O'Cyrus Torrence than Tippman, who would be available if things fell this way.
Here's a darkhouse - Felix Anudike-Uzomah, DE, K-State. He would ostensibly be an Edge, competing with Azeez Ojulari for that OLB/Edge spot across from Thibodeaux.
But for me, I'd really want Hyatt in this scenario, because I think he can be special. But moreover, even though I really like Cam Smith here, there's some other good corners that would hopefully be available at our spot in the 2nd. Jeremiah has only 4 corners going in this first round mock, I think that's light.
And I'll keep pounding the table for Jack Campbell.
All of these names I'd take before any Center in round 1.
I think in terms of center, there's a need there, but I think you could even go to the third round on that one, and someone will be there that you like. And if it's not there, you still have Bredeson or Lemieux, or go back to the free agent market. There's still some value out there in the free agent center market, with Conner McGovern (Jets), Ben Jones, even Rodney Hudson. I'm basing this off of Spotrac list of available free agents, which doesn't appear to be recently updated. They still show Pocic as a free agent, and he's re-upped with Cleveland.
Tippman is just not a positional value here at #25 overall.
important thing to take from this mock is that Jeremiah sees 5 quarterbacks being taken prior to the Giants pick.
Certainly he hears things and it would be great if Hooker goes that early.
That is a good point and the real utility of Jeremiah's mock at this point. His last one is where he's piecing together some of what he's hearing from a team specific standpoint.
If they pick a center with QJ on the board, I will throw the remote. QJ is the ONE WR in this class who "could" become a legit WR1. Passing on him would be dumb. He has things to work on, but the ceiling is VERY high. His pro day will tell us a lot. I'm curious about his 40 time.
I would either take Quentin Johnston or trade our 3rd or 4th to move up enough to get one of those guys above if they are ranked above QJ. Our 3rd would get us right about to 20, our 4th probably gets us to 22 or 23.
at center, they still need more competition at the IOL positions. A guy who is projected to play center OR guard would be the ideal pick.
They also have Lemieux and Ezeudu as potentials there too. No need to go round 1 and JS likely wouldn't for the lower impact positions such as S, TE, RB, IOL, ILB. I would think earliest would be round 2 but likely it would be round 3 or later.
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
I think that's overly harsh. He's been injured and barely has played. That doesn't mean he stinks, it isn't great, but he's spent basically all of the last two years on IR.
Who knows if he can get and stay healthy? Sure, it doesn't make sense to pencil him in as the starting center, but I expect him to compete for the job if he's healthy. And then we'll see.
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
Go re-read what you just wrote and note that the word you keep using is "probably". This team is going absolutely nowhere if the OL is worse than last season which looks like could be a possibility. Has Bredeson ever started a game at Center? He has 30 career snaps under Center. We're just asssuming he can play OC?
I'll double down on that. The o-line has to be considerably BETTER than last year for the Giants to make any noise. The interior was average at best, and RT was a turnstile. You can't win like that. I have no idea what they're thinking at center, but I'll defer to Schoen and the crew until I see otherwise. Skill positions are great, but meaningless without a solid ol.
RE: RE: RE: All of you people talking about Johnston
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
Go re-read what you just wrote and note that the word you keep using is "probably". This team is going absolutely nowhere if the OL is worse than last season which looks like could be a possibility. Has Bredeson ever started a game at Center? He has 30 career snaps under Center. We're just asssuming he can play OC?
So we are going to overdraft an OC this year, throw them into the fire and expect All-Pro caliber play/improvement to help Jones?
that may be one of your more obtuse posts yet, in the year 2023
one factor that may point to allstarjim's defense of Lemieux is that JS and Beane apparently scouted and liked him in his draft year, maybe they do see something, but the injuries are hard to ignore.
Also hard to ignore is JS's emphasis on positional value come draft time
RE: RE: RE: All of you people talking about Johnston
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
Go re-read what you just wrote and note that the word you keep using is "probably". This team is going absolutely nowhere if the OL is worse than last season which looks like could be a possibility. Has Bredeson ever started a game at Center? He has 30 career snaps under Center. We're just asssuming he can play OC?
They let BOTH Gates and Feliciano go despite pedestrian contracts. Unless they have badly miscalculated I think they are at least semi confident of what we have in house. I don't see an IOL drafted until round 3.
is so revered as a guru. Hes OK but just never seen him as super insightful. That draft looks really nuts. Of course he's a lot more clued in than I am but just a lot of picks that look just off kilter
is so revered as a guru. Hes OK but just never seen him as super insightful. That draft looks really nuts. Of course he's a lot more clued in than I am but just a lot of picks that look just off kilter
This draft seems harder to nail down than previous years. Could be I was just paying attention earlier while playing meaningless games in October year after year.
But still my favorite C in the draft. Not sure I see what other folks do in John Michael Schmitz. Sure he was stone walling people in 1/1s at the senior bowl, but his game tape was inconsistent to me.
Drag out every (well earned) cliche for Wisconsin olinemen when it comes to Tippmann. Really like him. He's also 21 and probably has room to develop more physically, whereas JMS is 24 and probably close to maxed out, FWIW.
I'd like to see them go with Jalin Hyatt. Johnson does have some question marks around him, looking forward to his pro day.
Really. They’re taking a C with QJ on the board. Sure. And that’s with it being questionable that any center even has a first round grade.
Not to mention, where the BPA crowd when this is brought up. Hear it all the time when WR is projected.
We don't have any idea how they stack these guys either but there isn't a consensus round 1 OC prospect this year. So the Giants would need to break from the philosophy Schoen outlined before and be somewhat outliers in their OC evals. Day 2 is very live for IOL imo. I just don't see it at 25.
Schoen on premium positions in the draft - ( New Window )
Well, everything except good hands. Body catcher with 12+ percent drop rate. Too much body catching.
A 3rd gets them to 20 according to the chart. 19 if they are lucky.
We don't have any idea how they stack these guys either but there isn't a consensus round 1 OC prospect this year. So the Giants would need to break from the philosophy Schoen outlined before and be somewhat outliers in their OC evals. Day 2 is very live for IOL imo. I just don't see it at 25. Schoen on premium positions in the draft - ( New Window )
Exactly. When possible He targets the lower salaried positions in FA (for instance ILB and TE) and then the premium positions high. Last year our top 4 picks were Edge, OT, WR and CB. This year I doubt we see ILB, IOL,S, RB or TE in rounds 1 or 2.
That said, it would be very difficult to pass on Quentin Johnston even though he may have flaws as a prospect.
I'm a little surprised to see Hyatt falling out of the first round, he'd be a guy I'd be in on at #25.
Cam Smith, CB South Carolina, also not in this mock. He has a lot of traits I would think the Giants would like.
I'd sooner the Giants take O'Cyrus Torrence than Tippman, who would be available if things fell this way.
Here's a darkhouse - Felix Anudike-Uzomah, DE, K-State. He would ostensibly be an Edge, competing with Azeez Ojulari for that OLB/Edge spot across from Thibodeaux.
But for me, I'd really want Hyatt in this scenario, because I think he can be special. But moreover, even though I really like Cam Smith here, there's some other good corners that would hopefully be available at our spot in the 2nd. Jeremiah has only 4 corners going in this first round mock, I think that's light.
And I'll keep pounding the table for Jack Campbell.
All of these names I'd take before any Center in round 1.
I think in terms of center, there's a need there, but I think you could even go to the third round on that one, and someone will be there that you like. And if it's not there, you still have Bredeson or Lemieux, or go back to the free agent market. There's still some value out there in the free agent center market, with Conner McGovern (Jets), Ben Jones, even Rodney Hudson. I'm basing this off of Spotrac list of available free agents, which doesn't appear to be recently updated. They still show Pocic as a free agent, and he's re-upped with Cleveland.
Tippman is just not a positional value here at #25 overall.
Certainly he hears things and it would be great if Hooker goes that early.
agree about hyatt. that would be my pick in this scenario. would also consider bresee/clancey.
Certainly he hears things and it would be great if Hooker goes that early.
That is a good point and the real utility of Jeremiah's mock at this point. His last one is where he's piecing together some of what he's hearing from a team specific standpoint.
Matt Miller
@nfldraftscout
·
1h
Players who will go higher than people think:
Darnell Wright
Adetomiwa Adebawore
Hendon Hooker
Players who will go lower than people think:
Brian Branch
Bryan Bresee
Jordan Addison
Addison, Porter, Flowers, Banks....
I would either take Quentin Johnston or trade our 3rd or 4th to move up enough to get one of those guys above if they are ranked above QJ. Our 3rd would get us right about to 20, our 4th probably gets us to 22 or 23.
They also have Lemieux and Ezeudu as potentials there too. No need to go round 1 and JS likely wouldn't for the lower impact positions such as S, TE, RB, IOL, ILB. I would think earliest would be round 2 but likely it would be round 3 or later.
Matt Miller
@nfldraftscout
·
1h
Players who will go higher than people think:
Adetomiwa Adebawore
I think he's a sleeper to be our pick at 25.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
Matt Miller
@nfldraftscout
·
1h
Players who will go higher than people think:
Darnell Wright
Adetomiwa Adebawore
Hendon Hooker
Players who will go lower than people think:
Brian Branch
Bryan Bresee
Jordan Addison
Would love to get Brian Branch to replace Love.
I think that's overly harsh. He's been injured and barely has played. That doesn't mean he stinks, it isn't great, but he's spent basically all of the last two years on IR.
Who knows if he can get and stay healthy? Sure, it doesn't make sense to pencil him in as the starting center, but I expect him to compete for the job if he's healthy. And then we'll see.
Quote:
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
Go re-read what you just wrote and note that the word you keep using is "probably". This team is going absolutely nowhere if the OL is worse than last season which looks like could be a possibility. Has Bredeson ever started a game at Center? He has 30 career snaps under Center. We're just asssuming he can play OC?
Quote:
In comment 16071702 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
Go re-read what you just wrote and note that the word you keep using is "probably". This team is going absolutely nowhere if the OL is worse than last season which looks like could be a possibility. Has Bredeson ever started a game at Center? He has 30 career snaps under Center. We're just asssuming he can play OC?
So we are going to overdraft an OC this year, throw them into the fire and expect All-Pro caliber play/improvement to help Jones?
Quote:
is an interesting morning post from Matt Miller @ NFL Draft Scout. Another guy with a lot of NFL GM contacts:
Matt Miller
@nfldraftscout
·
1h
Players who will go higher than people think:
Adetomiwa Adebawore
I think he's a sleeper to be our pick at 25.
one factor that may point to allstarjim's defense of Lemieux is that JS and Beane apparently scouted and liked him in his draft year, maybe they do see something, but the injuries are hard to ignore.
Also hard to ignore is JS's emphasis on positional value come draft time
Quote:
In comment 16071702 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
realize that the Giants don't have 1 OC on the team right now, right? Schoen needs to start working the phone for a trade at this point to acquire an OC or sign Ben Jones. The Giants are in a position where they have to draft an OC right now if they do nothing.
Bred is prolly an upgrade at OC to Feliciano. They let both Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance. They probably are at least semi-confident of the in-house solutions there. Hard to see sooner than round 3 here when more premium posistions are needed like CB,WR and possibly Edge.
Go re-read what you just wrote and note that the word you keep using is "probably". This team is going absolutely nowhere if the OL is worse than last season which looks like could be a possibility. Has Bredeson ever started a game at Center? He has 30 career snaps under Center. We're just asssuming he can play OC?
They let BOTH Gates and Feliciano go despite pedestrian contracts. Unless they have badly miscalculated I think they are at least semi confident of what we have in house. I don't see an IOL drafted until round 3.
This draft seems harder to nail down than previous years. Could be I was just paying attention earlier while playing meaningless games in October year after year.
Quote:
is an interesting morning post from Matt Miller @ NFL Draft Scout. Another guy with a lot of NFL GM contacts:
Matt Miller
@nfldraftscout
·
1h
Players who will go higher than people think:
Adetomiwa Adebawore
I think he's a sleeper to be our pick at 25.
I agree. Another possibility is Keion White.
Drag out every (well earned) cliche for Wisconsin olinemen when it comes to Tippmann. Really like him. He's also 21 and probably has room to develop more physically, whereas JMS is 24 and probably close to maxed out, FWIW.