No word on who the interested teams are, but Ian Rapoport said talks have ramped up with interested teams.
There has been no smoke to the Giants unfortunately, but will be interesting to see what AZ gets for Hopkins. He's by far the best WR available in any capacity(FA, draft, trades). Im guessing it will be a 2+. Maybe a 2 and 4 or something like that.
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My feelings on this are well known. I'd only trade a fifth and a seventh for Hopkins, and even then the Cardinals would have to eat a lot of his contract.
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commodity is far more successful than the draft. it is a simple fact.
Some fans just don't understand it even with the evidence clear as day.
Maybe use a 5th or 6th round pick to draft a WR you "love" and are "excited" to see. lol.
While that is true, it is a vacuum view. Look at the Rams. They did it successfully and won a SB with that philosophy but now they are garbage. Schoen and Daboll have preached sustained success not a flash in the pan approach.
true. it's a balance and not an absolute.
The Giants have failed in both methods with the OL, lol.
Solder vs Flowers for example.
You still need to acquire the right players for the right price.
Solder is a good example of the right strategy IMO, but the wrong player and many people said so at the time so not like 2020 hind sight.
Has as a history of lower body injuries.
Also, not sure if he fits what Daboll want to do on offense, which is separate. Hopkins is more of the acrobatic, contested catch type of player.
if i were AZ, id be willing to eat salary and take a lower pick this year for a better conditional pick next year. maybe a 3rd or 4th this year + eating 9m of the cap hit, then a pick that can get up as high as a 2nd next year if he has a pro bowl type season.
the relationship fractured, owner announced they were trading him before they finished their coaching search.
+1
I'm talking about this upcoming year. There is a reason that McVay almost retired. They are trying to trade off people now and release players. When was the last time they made a first round pick? Who are the young guys to build around?
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...to a 31-year old who has been suspended for steroids is not how you build sustainable success.
+1
+2.
Its definitely not going to be a 2nd. Guessing 4th , highest a low 3. And his cap hit for aquiring team will end up at a chunk less than 19M.
i dont think the nyg have enough room left to do both so it's probably moot but they are almost as close as 2 moves can be. there are reasons one could prefer one or the other but structurally it's the same gamble.
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because Stafford got hurt. That can happen to anyone, that's not an extra risk from a trade, at least not when the guy doesn't have a history of injuries.
I'm talking about this upcoming year. There is a reason that McVay almost retired. They are trying to trade off people now and release players. When was the last time they made a first round pick? Who are the young guys to build around?
That's an extreme situation. Suggesting trading a 2 or 3 for Hopkins is not that situation. In fact, there is little comparison. Its huge when middle round picks produce because they are really cheap and allows you to spend elsewhere, but the reality is that those middle round picks miss way more than hit and rarely come close to Hopkins'production.
Look at a team like the Eagles. They are so good at using the trade market to their advantage. There's also salary benefits of trading for guys because they are already signed and the SB is already paid.
Clearly this new regime understands that as they just got Waller.
i dont think the nyg have enough room left to do both so it's probably moot but they are almost as close as 2 moves can be. there are reasons one could prefer one or the other but structurally it's the same gamble.
You lost me at similarly productive. Hopkins has 10 straight years of producing(except 1 year), Waller has 2. Yes, their peeks are in the same ballpark, but Hopkins>>>>>>Waller in comparison to their peers.
Agree. Pass.
i dont think the nyg have enough room left to do both so it's probably moot but they are almost as close as 2 moves can be. there are reasons one could prefer one or the other but structurally it's the same gamble.
You know Giants could play it like this. Have a draft day trade lined up as back up to whether they get their WR target or not. Since CB is so loaded go WR round 1 unless the CB is clear BPA and/or a tier higher on the value board.
Round 2 has a number of interesting WR possibilities that have WR1 ceilings. Tillman, Tyler Scott, Josh Downs (if he drops), Michael Wilson, Jayden Reed , Perry etc. If none high on our list for round 2 drop pull the trigger on a trade, let's say Jeudy for a 2 and a 4 or something like that. You can employ this fall back strategy round 1 too if your target is the WR mainly and want a guy like Pittman or Aiyuk as a fallback option.
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it is almost the exact same thing. similar contracts, similar ages, similarly productive, similarly missed almost as much time as they played the last 2 years.
i dont think the nyg have enough room left to do both so it's probably moot but they are almost as close as 2 moves can be. there are reasons one could prefer one or the other but structurally it's the same gamble.
You lost me at similarly productive. Hopkins has 10 straight years of producing(except 1 year), Waller has 2. Yes, their peeks are in the same ballpark, but Hopkins>>>>>>Waller in comparison to their peers.
nobody is voting on their HOF resumes. what they did pre-2019 in their early to mid 20's isn't really that relevant as part of any present day interpretation of what they can contribute now post-30.
in 2019 and 2020, each at 27/28 years old were as good as anyone at their positions, i dont think there are more than a handful of other players who had 90+ catches and 1k+ in each of those seasons. despite playing different positions they were within 1 td of each other over both years combined and had the same ypc.
in 2021 and 2022 they both missed about half of their team's games but remained productive when they played. entering their age 31's whether or not they can stay on field and remain at that level is an obvious uncertainty, which is why they are available in the first place. i think either would have been a good gamble for the toney pick or at a comparable price and have said so since it was first rumored hopkins was on his way out in az.
in a recent study (from 5 years ago) of 20 years of draft picks, 80% were considered average or worse.
59% were considered poor or worse.
It's partly why the Rams were convinced to shoot their shot - and they were rewarded.
in a recent study (from 5 years ago) of 20 years of draft picks, 80% were considered average or worse.
59% were considered poor or worse.
It's partly why the Rams were convinced to shoot their shot - and they were rewarded.
Fans really overrate big names with recent injury histories and on the wrong side of 30.
that's possible, especially factoring in the peds, but hopkins has never really been considered a bad lockerroom guy. he wore a C in arizona and was the primary reason they improved to a playoff team his first year there.
i was really impressed with waller's initial interview though and id imagine that was part of why they ultimately pulled the trigger with him so it's fair to wonder whether or not they would have felt the same about hopkins if they had the same choice at the same compensation. this is just a guess but i would think arizona was hoping for (and may still get) more than las vegas got for waller.
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In comment 16071719 Eric on Li said:
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it is almost the exact same thing. similar contracts, similar ages, similarly productive, similarly missed almost as much time as they played the last 2 years.
i dont think the nyg have enough room left to do both so it's probably moot but they are almost as close as 2 moves can be. there are reasons one could prefer one or the other but structurally it's the same gamble.
You lost me at similarly productive. Hopkins has 10 straight years of producing(except 1 year), Waller has 2. Yes, their peeks are in the same ballpark, but Hopkins>>>>>>Waller in comparison to their peers.
nobody is voting on their HOF resumes. what they did pre-2019 in their early to mid 20's isn't really that relevant as part of any present day interpretation of what they can contribute now post-30.
in 2019 and 2020, each at 27/28 years old were as good as anyone at their positions, i dont think there are more than a handful of other players who had 90+ catches and 1k+ in each of those seasons. despite playing different positions they were within 1 td of each other over both years combined and had the same ypc.
in 2021 and 2022 they both missed about half of their team's games but remained productive when they played. entering their age 31's whether or not they can stay on field and remain at that level is an obvious uncertainty, which is why they are available in the first place. i think either would have been a good gamble for the toney pick or at a comparable price and have said so since it was first rumored hopkins was on his way out in az.
Even if you look at the last 2 years it doesn't compare. Hopkins last year put up the same numbers he always has. Waller has fallen off the past 2 years and its not only because of injury. He wasn't very good when he was healthy.
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fans overrate draft picks.
in a recent study (from 5 years ago) of 20 years of draft picks, 80% were considered average or worse.
59% were considered poor or worse.
It's partly why the Rams were convinced to shoot their shot - and they were rewarded.
Fans really overrate big names with recent injury histories and on the wrong side of 30.
lol, you don't even know what he'd cost yet.
Does Daniel Jones have an injury history?
in a recent study (from 5 years ago) of 20 years of draft picks, 80% were considered average or worse.
59% were considered poor or worse.
It's partly why the Rams were convinced to shoot their shot - and they were rewarded.
don't worry if they actually trade for hopkins the pants will drop quickly.
Stunted his growth? He’s a 7 year veteran two years removed from 1200 yards and 9TD. If you’re referring to his addiction he’s been sober for 6 years and his only issues lately have been injuries. Nothing to do with his “checkered past”
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He had his issues when he first got into the league which stunted his growth. Hopkins isn't Sterling Shepard in the lockerroom, but he also isn't TO. Not sure why you think he has such a bad reputation.
Stunted his growth? He’s a 7 year veteran two years removed from 1200 yards and 9TD. If you’re referring to his addiction he’s been sober for 6 years and his only issues lately have been injuries. Nothing to do with his “checkered past”
Once an addict, always an addict. I was responding to the guy that claimed Hopkins was a bad lockerroom presence and a risk.
What's your basis for making this statement? I've followed Hopkins closely for many years, and I can't recall any time he showed a diva mentality. I don't count his disgust with the buffoonery of his employer when they shipped Watson off.
He's one of the best in the business, although age is not on his side, he's not a locker room problem.
I'm arguing that Hopkins would have been a better trade IF the compensation was similar. Hopkins is much less risk that Waller is, IMO.
We don't know what kind of compensation AZ wants.
We don't know what AZ's time frame is. Its possible the Giants wanted to move quick and AZ wasn't ready.
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or that they made a mistake trading for him instead of hopkins? im honestly having trouble tracking.
I'm arguing that Hopkins would have been a better trade IF the compensation was similar. Hopkins is much less risk that Waller is, IMO.
ok got it, i think it's tough for us to predict fit from the outside but if the compensation was similar i agree hopkins would have been an arguably better talent to add on the field. i suspect arizona was (and may still be) trying to get a higher price than waller cost.
my point is that either move would have had a lot of similarities so it's odd to be for 1 and against another if the comp were similar.
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In comment 16071744 pjcas18 said:
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fans overrate draft picks.
in a recent study (from 5 years ago) of 20 years of draft picks, 80% were considered average or worse.
59% were considered poor or worse.
It's partly why the Rams were convinced to shoot their shot - and they were rewarded.
Fans really overrate big names with recent injury histories and on the wrong side of 30.
lol, you don't even know what he'd cost yet.
Does Daniel Jones have an injury history?
If Waller or Hopkins had their best year last year, I would not be as concerned.
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In comment 16071761 Eric on Li said:
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or that they made a mistake trading for him instead of hopkins? im honestly having trouble tracking.
I'm arguing that Hopkins would have been a better trade IF the compensation was similar. Hopkins is much less risk that Waller is, IMO.
ok got it, i think it's tough for us to predict fit from the outside but if the compensation was similar i agree hopkins would have been an arguably better talent to add on the field. i suspect arizona was (and may still be) trying to get a higher price than waller cost.
my point is that either move would have had a lot of similarities so it's odd to be for 1 and against another if the comp were similar.
Understood, we are on the same page.
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about 100x better than Hopkins. Keep in mind, Schoen has said, numerous times, they are ONLY interested in bringing in guys that fit what they are building. Hopkins is a "me, myself and I" type guy, NOT what they are looking for.
What's your basis for making this statement? I've followed Hopkins closely for many years, and I can't recall any time he showed a diva mentality. I don't count his disgust with the buffoonery of his employer when they shipped Watson off.
He's one of the best in the business, although age is not on his side, he's not a locker room problem.
I've been a Hopkins fan since his Clemson days...he is an emotional locker room leader that puts the team first.
Mid season I was a hard no at a 1 but I’m interested at a 3 and another pick based on health.
agree
Mid season I was a hard no at a 1 but I’m interested at a 3 and another pick based on health.
Not often do I disagree with your takes, UConn (fwiw), but this one I do: this season is still transitional to building a stronger team. What does a Hopkins--and the giving up of a Day 2 pick--look like in 2024?
I reserve the right to change my mind.
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shortsighted to say the least. Schoen has a good handle on the cap, IMO so that part doesn’t worry me. It’s really giving up a high pick and we don’t know what it would take. Be open to it because Hopkins would be a big upgrade to a pitiful WR group.
Mid season I was a hard no at a 1 but I’m interested at a 3 and another pick based on health.
Not often do I disagree with your takes, UConn (fwiw), but this one I do: this season is still transitional to building a stronger team. What does a Hopkins--and the giving up of a Day 2 pick--look like in 2024?
It isn’t a slam dunk, I’m just interested at the above price. Would need to know if Schoen plans on extending and if so how many years and how much.
I also think the Giants can make noise this year with a big talent upgrade in a couple key areas, one being WR. If we hit a HR adding talent to the group, why can’t we score 25ppg?
Benjamin Allbright (@AllbrightNFL) on DeAndre Hopkins suitors:
“Teams I’m told are interested with the possible capital to pull off a trade for Hopkins include (but aren’t limited to) the New England Patriots, New York Giants, Tennessee Titans and Atlanta Falcons.”
The question to me is simple in whether to acquire Hopkins - how much high-level production do you think he has?
If it's 3 or >, you get involved in the trade. Because that window of production - especially in the NFC - can put you right in the hunt and still give you time to build a younger pipeline.