No mention of the Giants as a threat. It’s clear the Giants won’t be getting much respect still. Honestly, until they can prove to even keep it close with Philly, they shouldn’t get the respect.
This season needs to be the year this team can finally beat Dallas & Philly. Until then, there won’t be much respect given to the Giants.
Their defense lost enough important pieces that, even with replacements in house, may be noticeably less effective.
AND they weren't great last year against offenses that had speed (like KC).
NY "should" be competitive this year. It will depend on the strides OUR OL takes. That's the key.
Agreed. Hopefully we get 2/3rds there as far as building a yr in yr out playoff contender
FA is nice but player development and draft is more important. Do we bring in another 5-6 guys this yr that have LT core potential?
How do the injured rookie’s progress from 2022 class. Good teams replace lost guys with guys they have been grooming
If our staff can do that, long term success
Until Jones can prove that he can win games consistently, over multiple seasons, we could still be a flash in the pan.
Schoen appears to be focused on building the lines back up and we won't really be able to consistently beat them until we do.
I'm sure the rest of the league saw how the Chiefs OL dominated the Eagles Dline in the superbowl. We should implement the same strategy.
I don't think the last decade is relevant. For projecting next year, what matters is recent history (last year) and this off-season.
As far as Philly is concerned, I think they were the best team in the NFL last year. Then they lost most of their coaching staff and 6 of their top 15 players. That probably matters.
Dallas was a bit better than NYG last year and they probably "ran in place" this off-season.
The teams two off seasons have been going in opposite directions. Philadephia fans are not afraid that the gap has closed, but that Dallas has surpassed them.
The teams two off seasons have been going in opposite directions. Philadephia fans are not afraid that the gap has closed, but that Dallas has surpassed them.
Lol what?
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would they respect the Giants? We're like a Division II team playing against the big boys when we play them. Look at the past decade. Look at the combined score of the two games where our starters played their starters.
I don't think the last decade is relevant. For projecting next year, what matters is recent history (last year) and this off-season.
As far as Philly is concerned, I think they were the best team in the NFL last year. Then they lost most of their coaching staff and 6 of their top 15 players. That probably matters.
Dallas was a bit better than NYG last year and they probably "ran in place" this off-season.
I think you're all over the place on this one. Dallas made the right moves on that defense that I would be shocked if they're not a top unit again...and with the coaching shakeup there, they might actually pound the ball and play defense which is how that team is built. They'll be better than last year if they stay healthy..
Philadelphia didn't lose any pieces that they can't overcome. The spotlight is on their draft picks from last year who now become starters at those positions. What makes you or anyone think that they will see a significant drop off?
In regards to their coaching staff losses - remember when they fired Pederson and cut Wentz...the narrative this was a rebuilding time for Philly, and low and behold they didn't really skip a beat.
You guys thinking some huge shift in the division is going to happen in this year are really hoping for too much.
I hope the Giants are in the mix again, and finally win a couple head to heads against those teams. That'll be huge progress.
-O coordinator
-D coordinator
-several position coaches
and the key players at these positions:
-RG
-DT
-MLB
-WLB
-S
The problem with all of those losses, Philly is probably going to get a ton of compensation picks next season. I hate that!
This. The Giants may actually regress record wise in 2023 which people need to be prepared for. Record in one score games is one of the least sustainable components on a year to year basis. So if the Giants play a lot of close games like last year it would only be natural for their record to slip a little.
The only remedy to that is to play in less one score games which means a massive step up in points scored per game or shutdown D. For comparison, niners were at 16.3 ppg last year, Giants middle of the road at 21.8.
Offensively, the top offenses were close to 30 ppg, Giants middle of the road at 21.5.
So the question is, did the Giants do enough to improve on offense or defense this year to improve ppg, or are we anticipating a big step-up in player progression to acheive that?
-O coordinator
-D coordinator
-several position coaches
and the key players at these positions:
-RG
-DT
-MLB
-WLB
-S
No they're not. They will be competitive just like they were all the other years. We say this every single year how bad they're going to get and they may be for one year and then they just bounce right back but then again this fanbase always tells that silly lie that it takes time.
And their schedule is a lot tougher.
Cowboys 2x, Commanders 2x, Giants 2x
Patriots, Bills, Dolphins, Jets
Rams, Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks
Chiefs, Bucs, Vikings
The Cowboys are aging out. Their OL is getting old, they cute Zeke, Dak's injuries are becoming more frequent and even when he is healthy, he hasn't been great in the postseason.
Giants will have a stronger roster next year than they did in 2022, so I think they have made up some ground on both teams, but Philly is still the best in the division. I think we have somewhat closed the gap on Dallas.
If we keep drafting well and adding solid pieces in free agency, we'll be in that division mix more than last season.
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after losing:
-O coordinator
-D coordinator
-several position coaches
and the key players at these positions:
-RG
-DT
-MLB
-WLB
-S
No they're not. They will be competitive just like they were all the other years. We say this every single year how bad they're going to get and they may be for one year and then they just bounce right back but then again this fanbase always tells that silly lie that it takes time.
I guess losing a third of their starters and the majority of their coaching staff will have no impact. I guess that's why Philly has all those Super Bowls.
-O coordinator
-D coordinator
-several position coaches
and the key players at these positions:
-RG
-DT
-MLB
-WLB
-S
These are the reasons why people should believe that Dallas has closed the gap, added together with Dallas' acquisitions. But there likely won't be a "rude awakening" - I expect the Eagles to still be able to compete to be at the top of the conference once again. People who keep suggesting that what Jalen Hurts has been doing is a fluke are being a delusional. Last year was just his second full year as a starter, he's only 24 (younger than Daniel Jones) - odds are that he's actually going to just get better.
The Giants still have a ways to go before they can be in this conversation.
Quote:
after losing:
-O coordinator
-D coordinator
-several position coaches
and the key players at these positions:
-RG
-DT
-MLB
-WLB
-S
These are the reasons why people should believe that Dallas has closed the gap, added together with Dallas' acquisitions. But there likely won't be a "rude awakening" - I expect the Eagles to still be able to compete to be at the top of the conference once again. People who keep suggesting that what Jalen Hurts has been doing is a fluke are being a delusional. Last year was just his second full year as a starter, he's only 24 (younger than Daniel Jones) - odds are that he's actually going to just get better.
The Giants still have a ways to go before they can be in this conversation.
i dont think anyone seriously suggested it was a fluke; i think some have said that he may be benefiting from an elite offense at almost every position.
I wasn't arguing Super Bowls, it's just I've heard your theory on here way too many times that Philly is in trouble and they never are. They'll sweep the Giants again and make the playoffs. Yawn.
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In comment 16071639 NYG22 said:
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after losing:
-O coordinator
-D coordinator
-several position coaches
and the key players at these positions:
-RG
-DT
-MLB
-WLB
-S
No they're not. They will be competitive just like they were all the other years. We say this every single year how bad they're going to get and they may be for one year and then they just bounce right back but then again this fanbase always tells that silly lie that it takes time.
I guess losing a third of their starters and the majority of their coaching staff will have no impact. I guess that's why Philly has all those Super Bowls.
Do you realize they used premium draft capital on their replacements? Last year guys like Davis and Dean had the luxury of easing into their roles as rookies.
They now will be starters in year 2, and honestly are more talented than the guys who left via free agency.
Just because players leave for FA that doesn't mean a team is going to see a significant drop off if any. If they nailed their pics they'll be fine. It's how all of the good teams have sustainable successs.
You thinking those players specifically are going to cripple the Eagles is really really naive.
OG they lost - possibly they use Cam Jurgens who was a C in college
DT - Davis to replace Hargraves **
WLB - they have Dean to step in **
ILB - No current replacement for Edwards
S - No current replacement for Gardner-Johnson
** assumes no drop off which is far from a safe assumption
Also you Eagle admirers are underestimating the coaching exodus.
I am not sure I agree with that. There are certain QBs that can perform with any talent. Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahommes (the chiefs were not that good this year talent wise). Mahommes lost Tyreke Hill and it was like nothing happened.
There are other QBs who can be excellent when surrounded by elite talent. Jalen Hurts is in that category for now--it is not a knock on him but we have not seen him without elite talent--so I can't make that call yet on Jalen Hurts. I think Dak was one of those guys a few years ago, but we have seen what has happened to him when his talent, especially the OL has gone down. I hope DJ can get into that categoryof performing as a top QB when surrounded by elite talent--so that is not a knock on Jalen Hurts but just an honest assessment to this point.
OG they lost - possibly they use Cam Jurgens who was a C in college
DT - Davis to replace Hargraves **
WLB - they have Dean to step in **
ILB - No current replacement for Edwards
S - No current replacement for Gardner-Johnson
** assumes no drop off which is far from a safe assumption
Also you Eagle admirers are underestimating the coaching exodus.
Eagles admirers? You are really being a homer on this one. We don't have a center on the roster right now, the depth all over the team is still a question, and right now we are looking to the draft to fill key holes on this team. The Giants are in a good spot, but this is not shaping up to be a huge tide turning offseason.
Oh by the way, the rest of the division gets to partake in the draft as well. You and everybody else have predicting this great Eagles demise for years now...it hasn't happened.
The Giants need to keep making sound moves to close the gap - predicting the Eagles will be a far worse team than last year is ignoring everything about what has made them better than us for a decade.
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The vast majority of QB's in the league who have performed at a high level have the benefit of being surrounded by elite offensive personnel - that shouldn't now be a caveat when talking about Jalen Hurts.
I am not sure I agree with that. There are certain QBs that can perform with any talent. Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahommes (the chiefs were not that good this year talent wise). Mahommes lost Tyreke Hill and it was like nothing happened.
There are other QBs who can be excellent when surrounded by elite talent. Jalen Hurts is in that category for now--it is not a knock on him but we have not seen him without elite talent--so I can't make that call yet on Jalen Hurts. I think Dak was one of those guys a few years ago, but we have seen what has happened to him when his talent, especially the OL has gone down. I hope DJ can get into that categoryof performing as a top QB when surrounded by elite talent--so that is not a knock on Jalen Hurts but just an honest assessment to this point.
Okay, but forget ELITE TALENT...DJ hasn't had one WR or TE that would be categorized as an average starter in his career.
They look like they are taking steps to address the front 7 and I expect more in the draft.
The OL? One of these years or decades they hopefully get it figured out.
Hard for me to see where JS/BD did not see the clear issue against Philly and the rest of the NFCE and where they primarily exist; the LOS.
I don't think so. Schottenheimer is not as good of an OC overall, but Moore was becoming an increasingly bad fit with Prescott's turnovers, Lamb's dropsies, etc. If you look at the game logs Dallas would dig themselves into holes because, as soon as they would get behind, they would get too pass heavy. The first Philly game is a good example. They get behind 7-0 after a long drive and the first play after is a deep bomb for an INT. The Cowboys never recovered.
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puts it together and "looks" the part, people won't respect the Giants. They see Jones as a joke. It's time for Jones to shut em up and i think he will.
I guess it depends who you are asking. I have good friends who are Cowboys fans (How the hell are you a Cowboys fan when you were born and live in the tri-state area?? lol). A couple parrot dopey Jones things but the guys that are really into the game of football are terrified of Daboll and think Jones is a good QB (with more to prove)... but that we have too many holes to compete with them or the Eagles yet.
There isn’t a person I know who roots for other teams in the league who think anything at all of Jones. Most of them laugh about Jones, and then when the Giants paid him big $$, they really laughed.
Now, they definitely respect Daboll
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In comment 16071642 Kmed6000 said:
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puts it together and "looks" the part, people won't respect the Giants. They see Jones as a joke. It's time for Jones to shut em up and i think he will.
I guess it depends who you are asking. I have good friends who are Cowboys fans (How the hell are you a Cowboys fan when you were born and live in the tri-state area?? lol). A couple parrot dopey Jones things but the guys that are really into the game of football are terrified of Daboll and think Jones is a good QB (with more to prove)... but that we have too many holes to compete with them or the Eagles yet.
There isn’t a person I know who roots for other teams in the league who think anything at all of Jones. Most of them laugh about Jones, and then when the Giants paid him big $$, they really laughed.
Now, they definitely respect Daboll
I live in Bucs country, and a lot of people wish DJ hit FA so they could have signed him. I think his perception well outside the NY area (aside from shitty Phi and Dal) is pretty high.
Remember, super bowl runner ups have historically not made the playoffs. And no team has won the NFC back to back in the last 2 decades. So history is not in their favor.
The Giants IMO have gained ground. Last year, what made Philly overwhelming is they had about 25-26 guys who were above average starters. They were deep. The Giants had about 10.
That number has dwindled, while the guys they did bring back (Slay, Kelce, Cox, Graham, Bradberry) are another year into their 30’s.
Meanwhile, the Giants have made nice acquisitions- getting 3 starting caliber players at positions of need, and adding key rotation guys on the DL (hoping they sign Robinson). That, plus growth of some young players and DJ, and a return to health for guys like Ojulari, Jackson,Leo, McKinney and WDR, should help close that gap even more.
Quote:
after losing:
-O coordinator
-D coordinator
-several position coaches
and the key players at these positions:
-RG
-DT
-MLB
-WLB
-S
I think the it's people expecting Philly to flop who are in for a rude awakening. They had some losses, sure. But the core of the team remains intact, imo. They also prepared for some of them with draft picks in the last two years and they also have significant draft capital to keep building with.
In my opinion, the engine that drives this team is the OL. Losing Seumalo is a blow, but not a devastating one. Kelce returning is huge for them. They key for them, as with any team, is health. But their roster on the offensive side of the ball on day 1 is still the class of the division, imo. You don't have to be an offensive genius to make arguably the best OL, best starting WR duo, talented two-way TE, and an athletic QB work. Penny is a great dice roll and I'll be shocked if they don't grab one of the MANY talented RBs in this draft.
I think the D is more likely to show some cracks, but a healthy and improved second year out of Jordan Davis (which is entirely plausible to expect) could very easily mitigate (note - not eliminate) the pain from losing Hargreaves. Hereto, they have a lot of draft capital to use to plug some of the holes from FA departures, including a premium pick in the top 10 that they have no business owning. I expect it to be used on a defender. I shudder every time I hear discussion of Jalen Carter slipping. A nightmare scenario.
Unfortunately, the talent gap is still signficant. Giants are making strides, but you're talking about 10+ years of smart acquisitions vs. 2 offseasons (during which we're also cleaning up the cap mess left by the previous regime). I think folks are setting themselves up for disappointment if they're expecting significantly different results than last year. Maybe a bit more competitive, but I don't see us as in their class yet.
Lots of Eagle fans here will tell you losing the DC is addition by subtraction
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The vast majority of QB's in the league who have performed at a high level have the benefit of being surrounded by elite offensive personnel - that shouldn't now be a caveat when talking about Jalen Hurts.
I am not sure I agree with that. There are certain QBs that can perform with any talent. Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahommes (the chiefs were not that good this year talent wise). Mahommes lost Tyreke Hill and it was like nothing happened.
There are other QBs who can be excellent when surrounded by elite talent. Jalen Hurts is in that category for now--it is not a knock on him but we have not seen him without elite talent--so I can't make that call yet on Jalen Hurts. I think Dak was one of those guys a few years ago, but we have seen what has happened to him when his talent, especially the OL has gone down. I hope DJ can get into that categoryof performing as a top QB when surrounded by elite talent--so that is not a knock on Jalen Hurts but just an honest assessment to this point.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that anyone put Hurts in that category with Brady, Manning and Mahomes. I agree he hasn't been around long enough to declare that he's a proven thing or that he can produce on the same level with lesser talent. But definitely I've seen instances here where people aren't taking the same nuanced approach as you and have decided to give Hurts barely any credit at all for the Eagles' success.
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In comment 16071675 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16071642 Kmed6000 said:
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puts it together and "looks" the part, people won't respect the Giants. They see Jones as a joke. It's time for Jones to shut em up and i think he will.
I guess it depends who you are asking. I have good friends who are Cowboys fans (How the hell are you a Cowboys fan when you were born and live in the tri-state area?? lol). A couple parrot dopey Jones things but the guys that are really into the game of football are terrified of Daboll and think Jones is a good QB (with more to prove)... but that we have too many holes to compete with them or the Eagles yet.
There isn’t a person I know who roots for other teams in the league who think anything at all of Jones. Most of them laugh about Jones, and then when the Giants paid him big $$, they really laughed.
Now, they definitely respect Daboll
I live in Bucs country, and a lot of people wish DJ hit FA so they could have signed him. I think his perception well outside the NY area (aside from shitty Phi and Dal) is pretty high.
Yeah I know more than a few football fans who don't buy into the dopey narratives. Every Jets fan I know would take him in a minute as well.
The Cowboys are aging out. Their OL is getting old, they cute Zeke, Dak's injuries are becoming more frequent and even when he is healthy, he hasn't been great in the postseason.
Giants will have a stronger roster next year than they did in 2022, so I think they have made up some ground on both teams, but Philly is still the best in the division. I think we have somewhat closed the gap on Dallas.
If we keep drafting well and adding solid pieces in free agency, we'll be in that division mix more than last season.
When comparing the ages of the teams Dallas is the younger team and the youngest in the NFCE.
In the trenches the starting Dallas OL totals 135 years, Philadelphia 140. On the starting defensive line Dallas is at 105 years and Philadelphia 114.
On the overall starting offense both are at 292 years and on defense it's Dallas 292, Philadelphia 298.
Dallas is younger than Philadelphia. Dallas is not aging out. Dallas was actually the 3rd youngest team in the NFL last year followed by NYG 4th and Philadelphia 5th.
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In comment 16071675 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 16071642 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
puts it together and "looks" the part, people won't respect the Giants. They see Jones as a joke. It's time for Jones to shut em up and i think he will.
I guess it depends who you are asking. I have good friends who are Cowboys fans (How the hell are you a Cowboys fan when you were born and live in the tri-state area?? lol). A couple parrot dopey Jones things but the guys that are really into the game of football are terrified of Daboll and think Jones is a good QB (with more to prove)... but that we have too many holes to compete with them or the Eagles yet.
There isn’t a person I know who roots for other teams in the league who think anything at all of Jones. Most of them laugh about Jones, and then when the Giants paid him big $$, they really laughed.
Now, they definitely respect Daboll
I live in Bucs country, and a lot of people wish DJ hit FA so they could have signed him. I think his perception well outside the NY area (aside from shitty Phi and Dal) is pretty high.
Could be. Just my experience.
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would they respect the Giants? We're like a Division II team playing against the big boys when we play them. Look at the past decade. Look at the combined score of the two games where our starters played their starters.
I don't think the last decade is relevant. For projecting next year, what matters is recent history (last year) and this off-season.
As far as Philly is concerned, I think they were the best team in the NFL last year. Then they lost most of their coaching staff and 6 of their top 15 players. That probably matters.
Dallas was a bit better than NYG last year and they probably "ran in place" this off-season.
Sure it is. It's become a mental thing too. Just like we used to own the Redskins.
Yep. Good God the Giants defense looked like a bunch of weenies against them, in both those games.
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RB they lost - they replaced Sanders with Penny who literally has missed more games than he has played in his 5 year career
OG they lost - possibly they use Cam Jurgens who was a C in college
DT - Davis to replace Hargraves **
WLB - they have Dean to step in **
ILB - No current replacement for Edwards
S - No current replacement for Gardner-Johnson
** assumes no drop off which is far from a safe assumption
Also you Eagle admirers are underestimating the coaching exodus.
Eagles admirers? You are really being a homer on this one. We don't have a center on the roster right now, the depth all over the team is still a question, and right now we are looking to the draft to fill key holes on this team. The Giants are in a good spot, but this is not shaping up to be a huge tide turning offseason.
Oh by the way, the rest of the division gets to partake in the draft as well. You and everybody else have predicting this great Eagles demise for years now...it hasn't happened.
The Giants need to keep making sound moves to close the gap - predicting the Eagles will be a far worse team than last year is ignoring everything about what has made them better than us for a decade.
I for one haven't predicted the Eagles demise for multiple seasons but I do think that losing much of their coaching staff and 6 key starters is important.
Winning one playoff game and they getting destroyed by them isn't going to command respect. Resigning the quarterback they already don't respect isn't going to command respect.
The only way to command respect from Eagles' fans is to punch their team in the mouth, and then do it again later in the season. Then do it again the next year, and the year after that.