NFT: Doctors: Back pain

back pain sucks. Kicks the life out of you and makes you miserable.

I'm a big John Sarno fan whose main thesis is that a majority of back pain comes from slow twitch muscle fibers acting up because of stress and anxiety. He also states that a majority of exams will show damage and irregularity on an MRI or X-Ray but that is not usually the cause of the pain.

I wiped out my back 3 years ago after unloading 6 tons of stone in a hurry and the only that gave me relief until I healed up was a TENS machine. They can be gotten for dirt cheap on Amazon and they work amazingly well.

Also xanax, weed or a muscle relaxant.

That's my two cents. Hope you feel better.

Can probably tell you what that means

In comment 16072001 RicFlair said:

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Can probably tell you what that means

Shoulda mentioned this in OP. I have an appointment next Friday at the VA. Figured I'd try to get a heads up before heading in there.

doesn't read that bad to me; narrowing of the vertebral spacing--maybe some pinching of soft tissue--; likely some arthritis? and various deformities that most of us probably have. Get started on stretching, deep stretching your hamstrings.

If you’re over 50, they’ll probably tell you the results are normal and it’s just the aging process ... and prescribe exercise. Unless of course you go to a surgeon, then the sky us falling and you’re going to need a ‘procedure’.

Seriously, good luck. Back pain sucks.

"Healing Back Pain"-Get it, know it, live it.

...but my back pain has been eliminated since I added stretching my hip flexors everyday when I lift.

Doesn't matter what muscle groups I'm targeting, I do stretches in-between sets.

The first part says you have 5 vertebral bodies in your Lumbar spine which is normal. All of the other issues are normal for age-related wear and tear and/or osteoporosis. That being said, the anterior wedge deformity could be the result of trauma from high impact athletic participation.

I go to the VA now and they just give me cyclobenzaprine, naproxin and lidocaine patches.

I'm guessing they got tired of seeing me and requested an X-ray done. Those were the findings. Some days the back pain makes me bed ridden after certain activities that I do. Now the back spasms were shooting down my leg.

Maybe I'll try to do some stretches to help alleviate the pain.

Although the trauma could easily have brought this on. It is possible that the disc space narrowing is entrapping a nerve and that is what you are feeling.

Also known as osteoarthritis.

I am not a doctor, but my mother has this problem and I recognize a lot of the words, terminology and description.

BUT really, I'm not trying to lead you anything in particular just giving my two cents on something that looks and reads very familiar. See what your doctor says.

Gabapentin. It doesn’t work for everyone, but for me it was a miracle drug. It’s an oldie, inexpensive and very well understood.

Correspond to each vertebrae in your spine. Looking at it, it seems the issue is in your lower back. Some of your nerves are getting pinched. As we age, and with all the activity we go through, sometimes the soft disc in between each vertebrae starts to degenerate. Your nerves then get compressed (that's the pain shooting down your leg). It seems there's also a little bit of 'curvature' going on there, which might be scoliosis.

I have lower back issues myself. I've learned to deal with it over the years. But the first time it happened was like a jolt going through my whole body. I bent and twisted at the same time playing hoops, and I couldn't move for a few minutes. After several more episodes skiing and just doing dumb shit, I finally saw a chiropractor in my late 20's.

The first time he told me, "You have to start thinking, moving, and acting like an old man," was simply jarring. Especially after being so athletic all my life. Small things like taking your wallet out of your back pocket when you sit for extended periods and bending with your knees to pick stuff up, not with your back. It took several years for me to adjust.

You're taking lots of painkillers and muscle relaxants. I would gently suggest to go easy on those, if you can tolerate it. Try doing things naturally/organically. Try losing weight, stretching and warming up as much as you can. Look up 'inversion chairs/tables'. Maybe see a therapist or chiropractor. And try sticking with OTC stuff before the prescription stuff.

After all the diagnoses, the absolute last thing you'll want to do is surgery. Let me repeat that, UNLESS ONLY ABSOLUTELY necessary. And even then. Once you go down that road, it's a rabbit hole, and it likely will just get worse (luckily, I've never gone down that road). Good luck, feel better, and thanks for your service!

In comment 16072031 Spider56 said:

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Gabapentin. It doesn’t work for everyone, but for me it was a miracle drug. It’s an oldie, inexpensive and very well understood.

I give my 12.5 yr old german shephard gabapentin for her nerve issues she is still getting along

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In comment 16072041 gtt350 said:

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LOL, uh-oh...

Get on the web and look into the pinaformis nerve
Please obtain any info on stretching exercises include the rocking one
Then start to make that a part of your everyday routine
It has been essential for me after 20 yrs
Dr Sarnoff book great read as well to understand emotional aspect of long term back issues
Good Luck

Physical therapy/25 years so I read MRI reports daily. From the MRIs, I look at, yours is not that horrible, but that’s clearly not telling the whole story. The retrolisthesis is one that stands out along with the rotation. This generally means you’re losing some of the curve in your lumbar spine. That alone can create an area in the spine or natural impact is not being diffused properly. This could be causing some pictures of a nerve, or just taxing the muscles around the area. If the pain is staying in your back and not radiating into your legs, like sciatica, that to me is a plus. Now, if the pain is at your belt line, it may be due to tight, hip muscles, as someone mentioned above, flexors/rotators are often culprits. If the pain is more at the level of your waist/lower ribs, it could just be paraspinal’s that are working too hard, or a quadratus lumborum spasm. These are big words, but they’re just muscles. Without actually seeing you, putting my hands on you and checking you manually I wouldn’t want to tell you any exercises or treatment. That said I had a thirtyish, very tall patient with retrolisthesis a few months ago and therapy worked excellent for him. The recommendation for a tens unit is good as a lot of my patients get relief from them, but I would recommend seeing a PT and getting a baseline for what they think is wrong. Go find out what your preferences are to movement and where you are lacking flexibility, and stability. good luck. Hope this helps.

can’t/won’t diagnose you but I learned that back pain can be demoralizing and depressing but if you can get over the mental hurdle you’ll be in good shape.

Eat healthy and exercise, stretch, massage, etc will all help you. But get the facts first and develop a plan from there.

Take care of it. I initially blew out my back at 18 wrestling in college and then for years I always toughed out as I over used it working. Now I’m a mess and deal with so much severe pain and partial paralysis that I can’t do much at all, even little things like sitting at a table playing a board game with my kids is hard to sometimes impossible. Going to the store and walking is a real chore but I try my best to occasionally walk and do things like go fishing to be a little active. And there isn’t much that can be done at this point. I’ve had multiple surgeries and am told I need more but no real reversal just trying to keep from futher paralysis at this point. So my advice to anyone in the early stages of back problems to always take precautions and don’t just tough it out when using your back. Protect it at all costs because once you do enough damage and it gets bad enough it’s too far gone. It literally will shorten your life.

Hurt my back 30 years ago. Not correctly lifting weights. Herniated L5/L6. Since then I have not been able to do much cardio. My wife convinced me 2 years ago to try Pilates reformer. Best decision I ever made. At the end of the session my t shirt is soaked with sweat. No back issues.

These are the experts on back pain. Orthopedists are too quick to talk surgery. Does the VA have pain management doctors on staff? They are also called. physiatrists.

Epidural shots of steroid and marcaine
And medical marijusna does work

Find a neurosurgeon. A top one. Let him look at MRI and let him give you advice on surgery

In comment 16072001 RicFlair said:

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Can probably tell you what that means

So far this is the only advice I would listen to.

And see if they can work with you.

I'm going to incorporate more low impact stretching to help relieve some of the pressure.

I'll see if I can get an MRI done to see if there's anything more to what is going on.

Maybe I'll put a claim in for the VA so I can get free care moving forward related to my back.

Go to amazon and buy the book by Dr. Sarno called "Healing Back Pain". I went from having debilitating back issues to minor back maintenance because of this book. It explores the relationship between emotional stress and pain and physical pain.

In comment 16072659 Kmed6000 said:

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Go to amazon and buy the book by Dr. Sarno called "Healing Back Pain". I went from having debilitating back issues to minor back maintenance because of this book. It explores the relationship between emotional stress and pain and physical pain.

Gotcha. Currently uploading this to my kindle. Thank you for the recommendation!

I've had debilitating back injuries since the 90's. I'd pull my back out and be sleeping on the floor for a week and unable to move. Ive had xrays, mri's and they all showed some sort of damage. Once dr recommended surgery which I considered because of how much pain i was in.

Last year I was a week away from going on a golf trip with some friends and I pulled my back out. I was freaking out because the last back injury took me out for about 4 months. I did get a cortisone shot which was magic and allowed me to go on the trip, but I was also recommended this book by a friend.

I was EXTREMELY skeptical because it sounded like smoke and mirrors, but I got the book. It changed my perception on my injuries and completely changed my life. I started to view things completely differently.

Good luck, I really hope it helps because I know how hard it is to live with a bad back.

It boils down to mind over body/pain.
Anger and resentments remain in our subconscious mind forever.
They tend to act up when we sleep because the mind never fully shuts down....learn to deal with anger,even from 20,30,40 years ago,.....the mind never forgets,it only stuffs it deeper in the subconciuos.
There is a bit more to it than that obviously but that what it boils down to....ping me for more details

In comment 16072756 AG5686 said:

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It boils down to mind over body/pain. Anger and resentments remain in our subconscious mind forever. They tend to act up when we sleep because the mind never fully shuts down....learn to deal with anger,even from 20,30,40 years ago,.....the mind never forgets,it only stuffs it deeper in the subconciuos. There is a bit more to it than that obviously but that what it boils down to....ping me for more details

Pain is a product of your nervous system not your musculoskeletal system as most believe. Your brain is the center of your nervous center. Emotions can absolutely be part of your pain experience and dealing with them is important, but there is more to it than that. Dr. Sarno has helped to advance the understanding and treatment of pain, but I would recommend looking into other more neurological centered approaches as well. One of the best ways to tackle you pains is to learn more about what they are and what they aren't.

a week-long trial of a Nevpro HX nerve stimulator to deal with back pain and a neuropathy.

My own back problems were 10x worse than that, which is to say, you should probably need only some minimal intervention. Definitely see the doctor like you plan, but don't feel anxious, I think you are normal.

Not sure how you feel about chiropractors, there are some that do little to help and just keep taking your money, but an older seasoned chiropractor that knows what they are doing can really help. Also, daily turmeric supplement, some other anti-inflammatory like aleve, stretching and exercise, occasional icy hot, I think that's the way to go.

If your legs start feeling numb or weak, then you have a worse issue.

Really helps a lot!

I have this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0109BBQMK

seems to be discontinued, but if you find one similar, should work well. They don't have to be expensive.

In comment 16073480 D HOS said:

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My own back problems were 10x worse than that, which is to say, you should probably need only some minimal intervention. Definitely see the doctor like you plan, but don't feel anxious, I think you are normal. Not sure how you feel about chiropractors, there are some that do little to help and just keep taking your money, but an older seasoned chiropractor that knows what they are doing can really help. Also, daily turmeric supplement, some other anti-inflammatory like aleve, stretching and exercise, occasional icy hot, I think that's the way to go. If your legs start feeling numb or weak, then you have a worse issue.

Oh no.

I have some sharp flashes when I move wrong and my lower back pinches. Then I have longer episodes of either a warm tingly pain, or, a numbness. Goes down back of leg sometimes, and more often through the femur, knee, down me shin and into top of my foot. Freaking drives me nuts!

In comment 16073484 D HOS said:

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Really helps a lot! I have this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0109BBQMK seems to be discontinued, but if you find one similar, should work well. They don't have to be expensive.

Yes, love my TENS unit, I 2nd this.

In comment 16073586 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 16073480 D HOS said: Quote: My own back problems were 10x worse than that, which is to say, you should probably need only some minimal intervention. Definitely see the doctor like you plan, but don't feel anxious, I think you are normal. Not sure how you feel about chiropractors, there are some that do little to help and just keep taking your money, but an older seasoned chiropractor that knows what they are doing can really help. Also, daily turmeric supplement, some other anti-inflammatory like aleve, stretching and exercise, occasional icy hot, I think that's the way to go. If your legs start feeling numb or weak, then you have a worse issue. Oh no. I have some sharp flashes when I move wrong and my lower back pinches. Then I have longer episodes of either a warm tingly pain, or, a numbness. Goes down back of leg sometimes, and more often through the femur, knee, down me shin and into top of my foot. Freaking drives me nuts!

So obviously I am not a doctor, and have no expert medical knowledge, so just be clear on that. But I have some experience with back issues with myself, one of my sons and my dad. In my dad and my case, we have herniated discs which narrow the available width of the spinal canal, leading to pressure on the nerves running through those vertebrae. "Stenosis". In my case, this cause my legs to start to feel tingly and weak, sometimes numb. A lot like they "fell asleep" or eventually perpetually like I was walking in a bounce house, where I didn't have a firm feel for the ground beneath my feet. This required surgery to fix it and now it's fine.

I'm not sure you are heading down that road, and I wouldn't jump to conclusions, but just so you have some context for my comment.

His discs weren't as bad as mine, nor his symptoms. He just needs occasional cortisone shot and I think some other steroid, also chiropractor and PT. He's fine now and did not need surgery.

Red Light therapy as treatment for the back issues. Just a thought

Spondylotic changes throughout but worst is L2-3, which covers the front of the thighs. X rays only tell you so much but you can probably infer there are some degenerative disc diseases at several levels which have probably herniated. That in and of itself is not terribly foreboding but at 37 you may have to battle ongoing back issues.

Get some therapy, have a MRI at some point. You can try all the noninvasive treatments out there but they are all probably anecdotal.