“Teams I’m told are interested with the possible capital to pull off a trade for Hopkins include (but aren’t limited to) the New England Patriots, New York Giants, Tennessee Titans and Atlanta Falcons.” Hopkins - ( New Window )
cooks was due a similar amount but after the texans ate some of the money and dallas restructured him, the cap # for the year is 6m.
that said from a cap standpoint i dont think nyg are realistic for hopkins unless he just falls into their lap. if they were i just dont see them spending 11m combined on slayton/campbell.
if the market for him is cold and you can get him for day 3 picks like cooks (or cooper last year) you almost have to do it. the upside is too much. but the falcons and pats have a lot more cap space so i expect he ends up somewhere else.
probably also has some appeal. NE and ATL are probably both in more of a desperate posture as well. Arthur Smith has to be one of the most likely guys to get canned next and Belichek im sure wants to get the stink of the patricia/judge offense as far in the rearview as possible.
Giants added some legitimate weapons to their offense this offseason and I'm sure he's seen that and the praise the Giants have gotten for it. The more weapons, the less it's all on him to produce and no one else. That also might be appealing to him.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
DONT think we need close to 11 million for picks this yr
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
whoever trades for him isn't likely taking the full 19.5m. look at the cooks trade. houston ate 8m i think, dallas took 12m, and then restructured a bunch of money right away to get his cap # down to 6m. something similar is going to happen in any hopkins deal so arizona can get the best return on the trade in terms of picks.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
DONT think we need close to 11 million for picks this yr
torrance and OC first 2 rds!!!
That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
DONT think we need close to 11 million for picks this yr
torrance and OC first 2 rds!!!
That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
most of that 10m is already being counted against the cap via the top 51. the net increase is only the 3-4m the high picks get with their contracts being over the minimum.
Extend LW, SB, and AJ and pull this off for a #3 and I'll say we are a potential SB contender.
I'd put some $ on the Giants if we pull that off.
We'd instantly have an explosive, top tier offense. DJ would have the weapons he needs, and we'd have time to find a younger #1 in a year or 2.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
whoever trades for him isn't likely taking the full 19.5m. look at the cooks trade. houston ate 8m i think, dallas took 12m, and then restructured a bunch of money right away to get his cap # down to 6m. something similar is going to happen in any hopkins deal so arizona can get the best return on the trade in terms of picks.
Too much wishful thinking on your part. What do you think the Cards would take for him - already has been speculated a 2nd. Do you think the Giants give up their 1st to get salary relief? I doubt it.
That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
most of that 10m is already being counted against the cap via the top 51. the net increase is only the 3-4m the high picks get with their contracts being over the minimum.
Maybe so, but OTC says it is $10 mill for the rookie pool for the Giants. What you say makes sense to me, but OTC sees it different.
And it's going to be like this for the next several years because the QBs are average vis-a-vis the AFC.
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
That's where I am outside of Daniel johns they are very few elite quarterbacks in the NFC(grin)
I trust Schoen to make a decision based on intelligence but how can he know how long a player might be at "that" level..?
Trading capital for Hopkins concerns me when there is a cap consideration to consider.
That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
most of that 10m is already being counted against the cap via the top 51. the net increase is only the 3-4m the high picks get with their contracts being over the minimum.
Maybe so, but OTC says it is $10 mill for the rookie pool for the Giants. What you say makes sense to me, but OTC sees it different.
no they see it the same, if you go to the link below where they list out the rookie pools they have a rookie pool amount and the column right next to that is "cap space", which they have at 2.9m, almost entirely from the 25th pick which is slotted at 2.5m. even the 57th pick is only slotted to get 1.1m which is barely above the minimum whoever the previous 51st man is. https://overthecap.com/draft - ( New Window )
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
whoever trades for him isn't likely taking the full 19.5m. look at the cooks trade. houston ate 8m i think, dallas took 12m, and then restructured a bunch of money right away to get his cap # down to 6m. something similar is going to happen in any hopkins deal so arizona can get the best return on the trade in terms of picks.
Too much wishful thinking on your part. What do you think the Cards would take for him - already has been speculated a 2nd. Do you think the Giants give up their 1st to get salary relief? I doubt it.
reread my posts above, i dont think the giants are getting him so no sure how you think im being wishful. my comments are about any trade from whoever trades for him doing exactly what the texans had to do to facilitate trading cooks. and then the trading team restructuring the remaining salary the same way the giants did with waller and cowboys did with cooks.
regardless of who trades for him at this point i would probably bet against the cards getting a 2nd round pick for him bc if that offer was out there it would be done already. the broncos couldnt get 2nds for their WRs so they pulled them off the market. i assume a big reason the giants chose to go with waller was that he cost a late 3rd as opposed to the cardinals wanting more for hopkins. now it's a waiting game a lot like bradberry last year, so who knows how it ends?
again, as i said above i would bet on NE or ATL to get him. they have cap room and motivation. but if either was motivated enough to give up their 2nd's he'd be there already probably.
reread my posts above, i dont think the giants are getting him so no sure how you think im being wishful. my comments are about any trade from whoever trades for him doing exactly what the texans had to do to facilitate trading cooks. and then the trading team restructuring the remaining salary the same way the giants did with waller and cowboys did with cooks.
regardless of who trades for him at this point i would probably bet against the cards getting a 2nd round pick for him bc if that offer was out there it would be done already. the broncos couldnt get 2nds for their WRs so they pulled them off the market. i assume a big reason the giants chose to go with waller was that he cost a late 3rd as opposed to the cardinals wanting more for hopkins. now it's a waiting game a lot like bradberry last year, so who knows how it ends?
again, as i said above i would bet on NE or ATL to get him. they have cap room and motivation. but if either was motivated enough to give up their 2nd's he'd be there already probably.
Eric, IIRC you have been hard on getting Hopkins from the get go. Maybe I'm not correct, but you and Kmed6000 are crazy on Hopkins. If it isn't you, then I am sorry.
But that is why I said too much wishful thinking.
I like him and think he'd be fun for Jones. I just do not see Schoen spending that kind of money while giving up picks. I think the Cards want more than a #2.
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
RE: My head is spinning with how many weapons we would have
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
I think it really depends on where Schoen and Daboll see this team from a competitiveness standpoint. If they think we are in the so-called “window” right now you make a move for a player like Hopkins. Because you aren’t getting a receiver like that in all likelihood at #25 or #57.
Now if they don’t feel we are contenders yet you sit back, draft well, and move on.
reread my posts above, i dont think the giants are getting him so no sure how you think im being wishful. my comments are about any trade from whoever trades for him doing exactly what the texans had to do to facilitate trading cooks. and then the trading team restructuring the remaining salary the same way the giants did with waller and cowboys did with cooks.
regardless of who trades for him at this point i would probably bet against the cards getting a 2nd round pick for him bc if that offer was out there it would be done already. the broncos couldnt get 2nds for their WRs so they pulled them off the market. i assume a big reason the giants chose to go with waller was that he cost a late 3rd as opposed to the cardinals wanting more for hopkins. now it's a waiting game a lot like bradberry last year, so who knows how it ends?
again, as i said above i would bet on NE or ATL to get him. they have cap room and motivation. but if either was motivated enough to give up their 2nd's he'd be there already probably.
Eric, IIRC you have been hard on getting Hopkins from the get go. Maybe I'm not correct, but you and Kmed6000 are crazy on Hopkins. If it isn't you, then I am sorry.
But that is why I said too much wishful thinking.
I like him and think he'd be fun for Jones. I just do not see Schoen spending that kind of money while giving up picks. I think the Cards want more than a #2.
before waller 100% but after waller (plus slayton/campbell) i dont see the cap room for it. for all the same reasons i was on board with hopkins (or sutton) im a fan of the waller move, and they literally got him with the exact pick i was hoping to get hopkins for (the toney pick).
now if somehow he's available for day 3 picks/conditional picks like cooks and arizona is eating a lot of money, and they think he's a culture fit, i could be convinced to mortgage a little cap room to make it happen because the guy is still a stud. but i see that as very unlikely bc it's a lot of ifs.
now if somehow he's available for day 3 picks/conditional picks like cooks and arizona is eating a lot of money, and they think he's a culture fit, i could be convinced to mortgage a little cap room to make it happen because the guy is still a stud. but i see that as very unlikely bc it's a lot of ifs.
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
I think it really depends on where Schoen and Daboll see this team from a competitiveness standpoint. If they think we are in the so-called “window” right now you make a move for a player like Hopkins. Because you aren’t getting a receiver like that in all likelihood at #25 or #57.
Now if they don’t feel we are contenders yet you sit back, draft well, and move on.
Waller: Age (31) — (20 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Hopkins: Age (31) — (19 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Look, I could see Hopkins having a skill set that lasts. He could still be good.
But I just don’t like the idea of “going in” on both of these guys because you think there’s a specific window. It’s a pretty huge risk if they do it.
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
I think it really depends on where Schoen and Daboll see this team from a competitiveness standpoint. If they think we are in the so-called “window” right now you make a move for a player like Hopkins. Because you aren’t getting a receiver like that in all likelihood at #25 or #57.
Now if they don’t feel we are contenders yet you sit back, draft well, and move on.
Waller: Age (31) — (20 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Hopkins: Age (31) — (19 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Look, I could see Hopkins having a skill set that lasts. He could still be good.
But I just don’t like the idea of “going in” on both of these guys because you think there’s a specific window. It’s a pretty huge risk if they do it.
It’s risky, don’t get me wrong. But if they trade for Hopkins you know they think we can win sooner than later.
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
Both with recent injury histories is not my idea of building a team , nor do I think it’s JS’s either when you have the #25 and #57 and need a Center, CB, LB, and good healthy WR in the #1 or #2 role in the top 4-5 picks , among other needs , and can use the lower round for more bites at the apple or to package up to a better pick position for YOUR GUY.
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
No, I said if you think Hopkins is done or on the backside. You Beckham fans believe the hype so much, the guy is at best a rental for a short 8-10 week stretch. He is an injury waiting to happen and a distraction..
And it's going to be like this for the next several years because the QBs are average vis-a-vis the AFC.
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
For once I agree with you, because I don’t think there is much of a market for Hopkins. It’s a bit like the Randy Moss situation where New England got him for a 4th round pick
And it's going to be like this for the next several years because the QBs are average vis-a-vis the AFC.
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
For once I agree with you, because I don’t think there is much of a market for Hopkins. It’s a bit like the Randy Moss situation where New England got him for a 4th round pick
If the Giants will be on the hook for the balance of Hopkins’ contract without renegotiating reasonably, they will NEVER pull off that trade, imo..
Solidify the OL, look to the draft, get healthier at WR and we should be good to go, as I see it
They still need to improve the WRs but the bigger need is long-term than short term now, which to me points towards the draft. I think it's either dated info or maybe the Giants are poking around to see if a lowball will get it done as he still lingers on the market.
At the end of the day, it's all about the draft compensation and more importantly the contract. If Arizona is willing to take some of the weight out of it and Hopkins isn't looking for an extension or infusion of new money, then it's very viable.
They still need to improve the WRs but the bigger need is long-term than short term now, which to me points towards the draft. I think it's either dated info or maybe the Giants are poking around to see if a lowball will get it done as he still lingers on the market.
At the end of the day, it's all about the draft compensation and more importantly the contract. If Arizona is willing to take some of the weight out of it and Hopkins isn't looking for an extension or infusion of new money, then it's very viable.
They will be lucky to get a 5th for 2 yrs at 19.5M/14.5M. The more AZ takes on some of the money, the more they get in return. Not sure how much they would need to get their supposed ask of a 2nd rounder.
because there is a lot of information that we probably don't know, but I'm glad the Giants are inquiring and I really don't see the massive risk that some people are stating. I don't think Hopkins is going to get some record breaking contract and I think they can easily fit his cap number in.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
You keep saying this and I keep correcting you. He's not going to have a 19.5M contract this year AND sign an extension. The extension will restructure the contract and his cap hit would be closer to 10M if not less(See Brandin Cooks).
If he did not sign the extension than his cap hit would be 19.5 and the Giants would be able to cut or trade him any time without a dead cap hit.
is there really room on the roster to add Hopkins? I assume that WR would no longer be needed for a premium draft pick. Would there be room for Hopkins and a WR from the draft?
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
No, I said if you think Hopkins is done or on the backside. You Beckham fans believe the hype so much, the guy is at best a rental for a short 8-10 week stretch. He is an injury waiting to happen and a distraction..
You: "If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ."
It's the very first thing you said, and what I was responding to. Sure, after that you said:
"This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate."
These are two separate statements. You may have intended to use the second statement as a pretext to the first, but for one reading it, the first statement can be taken by itself, and the second statement doesn't qualify the first statement. I agree with you in that I don't think Hopkins is finished. I don't agree with you that if you are against Hopkins coming here you shouldn't be for bringing in OBJ, for the reasons I stated, which is a cost-basis argument, not a performance-related argument.
I understand you and many others are convinced that OBJ is also done, an opinion I don't share. I do think the next significant injury (that requires a reconstructive surgery) would likely be the end of his career. I acknowledge all the risk, and the personality stuff. But I also think, if the stars can align where he stays healthy, much like the Giants are hoping they do for guys like Shepard, Campbell, and Waller, he can put together at least one more special season. I really believe that, because he is supremely talented.
I also think it's a 20% chance or less that Schoen brings him in, so my hopes aren't up, but I also won't be surprised if and when he puts together a terrific year for someone.
My thought is the Giants should get the best receiver they can in the first two rounds, maybe JSN or Hyatt in the first, or a Tillman or Scott in the 2nd. They need a young difference-maker in that group that doesn't have the wear-and-tear that exists with the rest of them.
Absent a significant addition, I expect that this time next year they will have signed a free agent WR at significant money. But there aren't guys set for free agency next year that I think fit the bill. Aiyuk, Jeudy, Jefferson, Lamb, all will have their options for the 5th year exercised. A few names... Tee Higgins I would be in favor of, and Mike Evans, who I'm not sure is the right scheme fit. Michael Pittman I also think isn't a scheme fit. I think Higgins fits any scheme. Calvin Ridley would be a hand-in-glove fit here, if the Jaguars don't extend him, which I expect they will do.
Now, if we're talking Brandon Aiyuk or Jerry Jeudy, and we didn't have to part with a first rounder, I'd be ok with that deal. Jeudy seems more realistic.
The most ideal situation for me would be the Giants to solve for the WR1 through the draft, because I believe that will help the Giants allocate more money to the defense where we really need it. I think they are really close to a championship-caliber defense, which I believe to be necessary for this era of Giants' football to compete for a SB.
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
No, I said if you think Hopkins is done or on the backside. You Beckham fans believe the hype so much, the guy is at best a rental for a short 8-10 week stretch. He is an injury waiting to happen and a distraction..
You: "If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ."
It's the very first thing you said, and what I was responding to. Sure, after that you said:
"This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate."
These are two separate statements. You may have intended to use the second statement as a pretext to the first, but for one reading it, the first statement can be taken by itself, and the second statement doesn't qualify the first statement. I agree with you in that I don't think Hopkins is finished. I don't agree with you that if you are against Hopkins coming here you shouldn't be for bringing in OBJ, for the reasons I stated, which is a cost-basis argument, not a performance-related argument.
I understand you and many others are convinced that OBJ is also done, an opinion I don't share. I do think the next significant injury (that requires a reconstructive surgery) would likely be the end of his career. I acknowledge all the risk, and the personality stuff. But I also think, if the stars can align where he stays healthy, much like the Giants are hoping they do for guys like Shepard, Campbell, and Waller, he can put together at least one more special season. I really believe that, because he is supremely talented.
I also think it's a 20% chance or less that Schoen brings him in, so my hopes aren't up, but I also won't be surprised if and when he puts together a terrific year for someone.
My thought is the Giants should get the best receiver they can in the first two rounds, maybe JSN or Hyatt in the first, or a Tillman or Scott in the 2nd. They need a young difference-maker in that group that doesn't have the wear-and-tear that exists with the rest of them.
Absent a significant addition, I expect that this time next year they will have signed a free agent WR at significant money. But there aren't guys set for free agency next year that I think fit the bill. Aiyuk, Jeudy, Jefferson, Lamb, all will have their options for the 5th year exercised. A few names... Tee Higgins I would be in favor of, and Mike Evans, who I'm not sure is the right scheme fit. Michael Pittman I also think isn't a scheme fit. I think Higgins fits any scheme. Calvin Ridley would be a hand-in-glove fit here, if the Jaguars don't extend him, which I expect they will do.
Now, if we're talking Brandon Aiyuk or Jerry Jeudy, and we didn't have to part with a first rounder, I'd be ok with that deal. Jeudy seems more realistic.
The most ideal situation for me would be the Giants to solve for the WR1 through the draft, because I believe that will help the Giants allocate more money to the defense where we really need it. I think they are really close to a championship-caliber defense, which I believe to be necessary for this era of Giants' football to compete for a SB.
Again, he may put up 2 super superb years in a row, perhaps HOF years, but the major problem for Dabes in the now in sync lockerroom, is the social media frenzy he will bring and always will bring to the team. Dabes cannot possibly want that, even if OBJ performs as an all-star. This is my opinion that is most likely Schoen’s and Dabes’, imv..
Not about talent
Then when you get past the off the field reasons why
OBJ is a bad fit, it is about the talent because he will never be that guy again. Its over. At best, he will be a possession receiver, but he's not big and he doesnt have great hands.
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
It's a lot of money for a player who can't stay healthy.
with their extreme interest in shiny big name players on the wrong side of 30. Didn't anyone read the thread about how bad and ranked last our oline is?
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
It's a lot of money for a player who can't stay healthy.
lol. do people just look at espn stats and games played and then just parrot the same things? He had 1 year where he battled an injury and he's fully healed from the torn MCL which is not a long term debilitating injury.
with their extreme interest in shiny big name players on the wrong side of 30. Didn't anyone read the thread about how bad and ranked last our oline is?
You keep saying this. Sheesh, FA recently started, they’ll fill in the OL via FA depth signings abd through the draft. Do you really believe, after last season, that this won’t be addressed?
The Giants have one of the youngest teams in the NFL
and very few players over the age of 30. It's ok to have a few guys over 30 years old. All of the good teams do. He can keep saying the same thing, but it doesn't make it right.
with their extreme interest in shiny big name players on the wrong side of 30. Didn't anyone read the thread about how bad and ranked last our oline is?
with their extreme interest in shiny big name players on the wrong side of 30. Didn't anyone read the thread about how bad and ranked last our oline is?
Extreme interest? Weird post.
Extreme interest might be overstating it, but I think what he is saying and I don't want to speak with him, is that if we were to get Hopkins, we would have also singed Waller ( a guy with an injury history) and are paying Barkley (another guy with an injury history) and that the real problem with our skill players could be that our OL does not give the offense enough time to operate. I think if we sign guys like Waller and Hopkins and franchised Barkley (with the intent of a new deal) and our Offensive Line is horrendous--it is a bad move by our GM. This thought that everything Joe Schoen does or is rumored to do is unassailable is getting old quickly. Jerry Reese tried this exact same strategy and it failed miserably. Fix the offensive line (and I am not saying he won't through the draft), but I don't blame people for questioning priorities until he does so.
have SB, Waller and Hopkins AND improve the OL? I mean, they really only need 2 guys for the interior OL right now and they still have a ton of draft picks and some ability to create money.
Why do people think that bringing in (2) 30 year olds will prevent anything?
that the process was unexpectedly accelerated based on how last year went.
In other words, when Schoen & Daboll got here they probably didn't imagine re-signing Jones, Barkley, Slayton, Dex, etc. The players won them over and they had more success than anticipated, and that has caused them to manage the next 3 years differently.
Essentially they went from "slow rebuild" mode to "competitive window". And that changed at some point during the year.
that the process was unexpectedly accelerated based on how last year went.
In other words, when Schoen & Daboll got here they probably didn't imagine re-signing Jones, Barkley, Slayton, Dex, etc. The players won them over and they had more success than anticipated, and that has caused them to manage the next 3 years differently.
Essentially they went from "slow rebuild" mode to "competitive window". And that changed at some point during the year.
presumably it was whenever they decided they were sold on jones. rico reported they went hard on dj moore at the deadline, so if i was guessing a specific game maybe the green bay win october 9th after saquon went out and jones still led the 4q comeback.
have SB, Waller and Hopkins AND improve the OL? I mean, they really only need 2 guys for the interior OL right now and they still have a ton of draft picks and some ability to create money.
Why do people think that bringing in (2) 30 year olds will prevent anything?
nobody say they can't, but they haven't yet. Until then, people are going to be skeptical. Plus, we have not helped our offensive line we have only lost players from it. So, we have a lot of work to do there and I think if we are able to get it done and improve in that area--most will be happy. Until then, I don't really think they are wrong if they allow for the possibility that it can change because the off season isnt over.
There is still a ton of time from now until camp. There is more FA. There is the draft. There will be cuts. There can be trades. Why would this even be a concern in march?
Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
No, the point is don't get Hopkins as a substitute for a shitty Oline in the hope that it will paper over those cracks. If both are on the agenda and can feasibly be done--fine. You are assuming it is getting done, which is just as crappy an argument as someone who assumes it won't get done. We don't know, but the point is one without the other is not going to help up get where we want to be as an offense.
I think the FO knows exactly where we stand on the OL
and I'd bet that if a HOF guard was available for a steal of a price, they'd be in on that player too. Then you'd have an argument that we are too focused on WR and not enough on OL. However, its not reality.
Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
They must like our OL better than PFF's dead last ranking.
Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
They must like our OL better than PFF's dead last ranking.
I hear you. No doubt they stunk last year much of the year...
Learning curve in new system, Neal's horrid rookie year, Feliciano stinking for most of year, not realizing Bredeson was actually half decent, injuries, all were big contributing factors.
This year its a bit different and in theory improved:
LT Thomas- top 5 in NFL
LG- Glowinski- average but adequate
OC - Bredeson - projects quite a bit better than Feliciano, EZ and Lemieux backups and will take snaps at OC
RG- Ezeudu high 3rd and flashed, excellent feet
RT 2nd year Neal, with Phillips as the backup plan
Right or wrong they probably think this is a strong enough group 2nd year in the system and with 2 starters no longer rookies but 2nd year players. They probably add somewhere in the draft here too.
RE: I think the FO knows exactly where we stand on the OL
and I'd bet that if a HOF guard was available for a steal of a price, they'd be in on that player too. Then you'd have an argument that we are too focused on WR and not enough on OL. However, its not reality.
I know this reality, getting Hopkins at any price (cheap or not) is not worth anything without a functional offensive line. That I know. So, if you can't do both you might as well save the draft capital and invest in that offensive line. Great skill players are always available for a variety of reasons--if we miss the boat on Hopkins (at age 30 and coming off a PED Ban) we will live. But, again, if both can be done, I am for it.
Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
They must like our OL better than PFF's dead last ranking.
I hear you. No doubt they stunk last year much of the year...
Learning curve in new system, Neal's horrid rookie year, Feliciano stinking for most of year, not realizing Bredeson was actually half decent, injuries, all were big contributing factors.
This year its a bit different and in theory improved:
LT Thomas- top 5 in NFL
LG- Glowinski- average but adequate
OC - Bredeson - projects quite a bit better than Feliciano, EZ and Lemieux backups and will take snaps at OC
RG- Ezeudu high 3rd and flashed, excellent feet
RT 2nd year Neal, with Phillips as the backup plan
Right or wrong they probably think this is a strong enough group 2nd year in the system and with 2 starters no longer rookies but 2nd year players. They probably add somewhere in the draft here too.
3 guys changing positions on the OL doesn't seem like a good way to settle things down.
RE: RE: My head is spinning with how many weapons we would have
and very few players over the age of 30. It's ok to have a few guys over 30 years old. All of the good teams do. He can keep saying the same thing, but it doesn't make it right.
Figured this was as good a post as any to agree and build on this premise. I have always said and speculated that some of the best kept secrets in championship building is to sign the older but productive guys in FA. Sure you get them for less years and sure there is risk that player fades out. In a perfect world you'd get the 25 year old in his prime player but perfect doesn't exist, especially in FA, and I still say the 25 year old is just as likely to get hurt as the cagey 30 year old and in some cases that cagey and savy player is less an injury risk than many think.
Again, not saying you want a bunch of old guys but go look at NFL history and you will see plenty of title winning teams that got there on the backs of older players. You most definitely can turn a good team into a great one by adding an older player and to suggest otherwise or to ignore that method is just....shortsighted.
i'd love to see a serious deep dive into NFL player health
and what the numbers show comparing the risk factor in signing a guy like Hopkins and for arguments sake comparing that to a player who is 4 years younger. Just over the next 1-2 seasons. Who is more likely to get hurt? The 27 year old or the 31 year old. I'll bet it's not the slam dunk some here think.
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
RE: i still think with waller it's unlikely but if the price keeps falling
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
If Cooks was a 5 and 6. D-Hop feels like a 4th with 6-8M of his contract subsidized by Arizona or a salary rework by his acquiring team for a smaller cap hit.
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Uh, except OBJ is far cheaper—both in terms of salary and draft capital to acquire. But, by all means, keep on pushing your narrative about how great of an idea it is to trade at least a prime pick and mortgage the future for an expensive wr the wrong side of 30 who’s missed time and had a recent PED suspension …
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Uh, except OBJ is far cheaper—both in terms of salary and draft capital to acquire. But, by all means, keep on pushing your narrative about how great of an idea it is to trade at least a prime pick and mortgage the future for an expensive wr the wrong side of 30 who’s missed time and had a recent PED suspension …
Remember when OBJ was OBJ. He was on a HOF trajectory and put up insane numbers. The last time he did that was 2016. Hopkins has been doing that his whole career and did it as recently as 2020 and was on pace in 2022 to do it again. OBJ is not that dude.
If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Uh, except OBJ is far cheaper—both in terms of salary and draft capital to acquire. But, by all means, keep on pushing your narrative about how great of an idea it is to trade at least a prime pick and mortgage the future for an expensive wr the wrong side of 30 who’s missed time and had a recent PED suspension …
Remember when OBJ was OBJ. He was on a HOF trajectory and put up insane numbers. The last time he did that was 2016. Hopkins has been doing that his whole career and did it as recently as 2020 and was on pace in 2022 to do it again. OBJ is not that dude.
This is the main point here. OBJ is so much more injury prone than Hopkins.
Waller
Hopkins
Barkley
That's a very high end top 3 that can compete with any team's top 3 if healthy.
RE: RE: i still think with waller it's unlikely but if the price keeps falling
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
if i were arizona id be looking to pay down as much $ as possible and take whatever pick this year (2023) in return for a good conditional pick in 2024. i.e. maybe it's a day 3 but if he's still on the team's roster in 2024, it's a 2nd or 3rd. or if he makes a pro bowl.
if i were the nyg, that's the type of offer i'd also consider. you are only giving up a day 2 pick if he plays well enough to stick around next year.
“ Update: The #Bills, #Patriots, #Ravens, #Raiders, and #Falcons are the 5 teams in on WR DeAndre Hopkins, according to Pacman Jones on the @PatMcAfeeShow:”
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
if i were arizona id be looking to pay down as much $ as possible and take whatever pick this year (2023) in return for a good conditional pick in 2024. i.e. maybe it's a day 3 but if he's still on the team's roster in 2024, it's a 2nd or 3rd. or if he makes a pro bowl.
if i were the nyg, that's the type of offer i'd also consider. you are only giving up a day 2 pick if he plays well enough to stick around next year.
That's a good idea. But Arizona has a first time GM - M. Ossenfort - and first time HC - J.Gannon. So, who the hell knows where they want to go and how sophisticated Ossenfort is at this sort of thing.
SB? maybe if we shore up IOL and maybe cb
signing ashawn too
we would be a solid playoff contender hopkins good is he better than odell without comp?
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Extend LW, SB, and AJ and pull this off for a #3 and I'll say we are a potential SB contender.
SB? maybe if we shore up IOL and maybe cb
signing ashawn too
we would be a solid playoff contender hopkins good is he better than odell without comp?
different players but definitely better than odell and worth a pick. Odell is a headcase.
Yes, he is a million times more of a sure thing than Odell.
Hodgins
Slayton
Campbell
Shepard
Wan'Dale
Barkley
Breida
Waller
Bellinger
Wow.
that said from a cap standpoint i dont think nyg are realistic for hopkins unless he just falls into their lap. if they were i just dont see them spending 11m combined on slayton/campbell.
if the market for him is cold and you can get him for day 3 picks like cooks (or cooper last year) you almost have to do it. the upside is too much. but the falcons and pats have a lot more cap space so i expect he ends up somewhere else.
Delete.
Delete.
Huh? It flat out says... The Team's Im told are interested...
Delete.
Re read it…
I don't know how true that was, but he seems to want out of Arizona.
I like the player, not the contract.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
Quote:
Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
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In comment 16072292 section125 said:
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Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
DONT think we need close to 11 million for picks this yr
torrance and OC first 2 rds!!!
I like the player, not the contract.
whoever trades for him isn't likely taking the full 19.5m. look at the cooks trade. houston ate 8m i think, dallas took 12m, and then restructured a bunch of money right away to get his cap # down to 6m. something similar is going to happen in any hopkins deal so arizona can get the best return on the trade in terms of picks.
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In comment 16072294 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 16072292 section125 said:
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Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
DONT think we need close to 11 million for picks this yr
torrance and OC first 2 rds!!!
That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
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In comment 16072297 section125 said:
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In comment 16072294 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 16072292 section125 said:
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Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
No, #s are in line for a #1 WR. They do not have the money for that. Remember they need $11 mill for draft picks(minus the ones traded for Hopkins) - so $9 mill. Then they need operating cash $10-12 mill.
May need money for A'Shawn Robinson. They need a center.
DONT think we need close to 11 million for picks this yr
torrance and OC first 2 rds!!!
That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
most of that 10m is already being counted against the cap via the top 51. the net increase is only the 3-4m the high picks get with their contracts being over the minimum.
I'd put some $ on the Giants if we pull that off.
We'd instantly have an explosive, top tier offense. DJ would have the weapons he needs, and we'd have time to find a younger #1 in a year or 2.
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Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
whoever trades for him isn't likely taking the full 19.5m. look at the cooks trade. houston ate 8m i think, dallas took 12m, and then restructured a bunch of money right away to get his cap # down to 6m. something similar is going to happen in any hopkins deal so arizona can get the best return on the trade in terms of picks.
Too much wishful thinking on your part. What do you think the Cards would take for him - already has been speculated a 2nd. Do you think the Giants give up their 1st to get salary relief? I doubt it.
That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
most of that 10m is already being counted against the cap via the top 51. the net increase is only the 3-4m the high picks get with their contracts being over the minimum.
Maybe so, but OTC says it is $10 mill for the rookie pool for the Giants. What you say makes sense to me, but OTC sees it different.
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
That's where I am outside of Daniel johns they are very few elite quarterbacks in the NFC(grin)
I trust Schoen to make a decision based on intelligence but how can he know how long a player might be at "that" level..?
Trading capital for Hopkins concerns me when there is a cap consideration to consider.
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
+1
damn, it was only slightly funny if delivered well.
Sorry~
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That comes from OTC they show $10+ mill now. I didn't think so either. They already lost a 3rd for Waller. Losing a 2nd rounder for Hopkins saves about $1 mill more...
most of that 10m is already being counted against the cap via the top 51. the net increase is only the 3-4m the high picks get with their contracts being over the minimum.
Maybe so, but OTC says it is $10 mill for the rookie pool for the Giants. What you say makes sense to me, but OTC sees it different.
no they see it the same, if you go to the link below where they list out the rookie pools they have a rookie pool amount and the column right next to that is "cap space", which they have at 2.9m, almost entirely from the 25th pick which is slotted at 2.5m. even the 57th pick is only slotted to get 1.1m which is barely above the minimum whoever the previous 51st man is.
https://overthecap.com/draft - ( New Window )
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In comment 16072292 section125 said:
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Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
whoever trades for him isn't likely taking the full 19.5m. look at the cooks trade. houston ate 8m i think, dallas took 12m, and then restructured a bunch of money right away to get his cap # down to 6m. something similar is going to happen in any hopkins deal so arizona can get the best return on the trade in terms of picks.
Too much wishful thinking on your part. What do you think the Cards would take for him - already has been speculated a 2nd. Do you think the Giants give up their 1st to get salary relief? I doubt it.
reread my posts above, i dont think the giants are getting him so no sure how you think im being wishful. my comments are about any trade from whoever trades for him doing exactly what the texans had to do to facilitate trading cooks. and then the trading team restructuring the remaining salary the same way the giants did with waller and cowboys did with cooks.
regardless of who trades for him at this point i would probably bet against the cards getting a 2nd round pick for him bc if that offer was out there it would be done already. the broncos couldnt get 2nds for their WRs so they pulled them off the market. i assume a big reason the giants chose to go with waller was that he cost a late 3rd as opposed to the cardinals wanting more for hopkins. now it's a waiting game a lot like bradberry last year, so who knows how it ends?
again, as i said above i would bet on NE or ATL to get him. they have cap room and motivation. but if either was motivated enough to give up their 2nd's he'd be there already probably.
Agreed, we are already rolling the dice on a 30+ year old in Waller, no need to make it two.
reread my posts above, i dont think the giants are getting him so no sure how you think im being wishful. my comments are about any trade from whoever trades for him doing exactly what the texans had to do to facilitate trading cooks. and then the trading team restructuring the remaining salary the same way the giants did with waller and cowboys did with cooks.
regardless of who trades for him at this point i would probably bet against the cards getting a 2nd round pick for him bc if that offer was out there it would be done already. the broncos couldnt get 2nds for their WRs so they pulled them off the market. i assume a big reason the giants chose to go with waller was that he cost a late 3rd as opposed to the cardinals wanting more for hopkins. now it's a waiting game a lot like bradberry last year, so who knows how it ends?
again, as i said above i would bet on NE or ATL to get him. they have cap room and motivation. but if either was motivated enough to give up their 2nd's he'd be there already probably.
Eric, IIRC you have been hard on getting Hopkins from the get go. Maybe I'm not correct, but you and Kmed6000 are crazy on Hopkins. If it isn't you, then I am sorry.
But that is why I said too much wishful thinking.
I like him and think he'd be fun for Jones. I just do not see Schoen spending that kind of money while giving up picks. I think the Cards want more than a #2.
This.
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
Hodgins
Slayton
Campbell
Shepard
Wan'Dale
Barkley
Breida
Waller
Bellinger
Wow.
I think you might need to look up the definition of weapons
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
I think it really depends on where Schoen and Daboll see this team from a competitiveness standpoint. If they think we are in the so-called “window” right now you make a move for a player like Hopkins. Because you aren’t getting a receiver like that in all likelihood at #25 or #57.
Now if they don’t feel we are contenders yet you sit back, draft well, and move on.
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reread my posts above, i dont think the giants are getting him so no sure how you think im being wishful. my comments are about any trade from whoever trades for him doing exactly what the texans had to do to facilitate trading cooks. and then the trading team restructuring the remaining salary the same way the giants did with waller and cowboys did with cooks.
regardless of who trades for him at this point i would probably bet against the cards getting a 2nd round pick for him bc if that offer was out there it would be done already. the broncos couldnt get 2nds for their WRs so they pulled them off the market. i assume a big reason the giants chose to go with waller was that he cost a late 3rd as opposed to the cardinals wanting more for hopkins. now it's a waiting game a lot like bradberry last year, so who knows how it ends?
again, as i said above i would bet on NE or ATL to get him. they have cap room and motivation. but if either was motivated enough to give up their 2nd's he'd be there already probably.
Eric, IIRC you have been hard on getting Hopkins from the get go. Maybe I'm not correct, but you and Kmed6000 are crazy on Hopkins. If it isn't you, then I am sorry.
But that is why I said too much wishful thinking.
I like him and think he'd be fun for Jones. I just do not see Schoen spending that kind of money while giving up picks. I think the Cards want more than a #2.
before waller 100% but after waller (plus slayton/campbell) i dont see the cap room for it. for all the same reasons i was on board with hopkins (or sutton) im a fan of the waller move, and they literally got him with the exact pick i was hoping to get hopkins for (the toney pick).
now if somehow he's available for day 3 picks/conditional picks like cooks and arizona is eating a lot of money, and they think he's a culture fit, i could be convinced to mortgage a little cap room to make it happen because the guy is still a stud. but i see that as very unlikely bc it's a lot of ifs.
now if somehow he's available for day 3 picks/conditional picks like cooks and arizona is eating a lot of money, and they think he's a culture fit, i could be convinced to mortgage a little cap room to make it happen because the guy is still a stud. but i see that as very unlikely bc it's a lot of ifs.
Under those conditions, count me in.
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Would be a massive (giant?) gamble.
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
I think it really depends on where Schoen and Daboll see this team from a competitiveness standpoint. If they think we are in the so-called “window” right now you make a move for a player like Hopkins. Because you aren’t getting a receiver like that in all likelihood at #25 or #57.
Now if they don’t feel we are contenders yet you sit back, draft well, and move on.
Waller: Age (31) — (20 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Hopkins: Age (31) — (19 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Look, I could see Hopkins having a skill set that lasts. He could still be good.
But I just don’t like the idea of “going in” on both of these guys because you think there’s a specific window. It’s a pretty huge risk if they do it.
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In comment 16072358 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
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Would be a massive (giant?) gamble.
Hopkins has been one of my favorite receivers to watch the last 7 or so years. Very impressive ball catcher to put it simply. He had a catch that didn’t count vs. us a while ago that was one of the best catches I’ve ever seen.
Just doesn’t feel like the right move after Waller though. A younger WR through the draft would be preferred imo.
I think it really depends on where Schoen and Daboll see this team from a competitiveness standpoint. If they think we are in the so-called “window” right now you make a move for a player like Hopkins. Because you aren’t getting a receiver like that in all likelihood at #25 or #57.
Now if they don’t feel we are contenders yet you sit back, draft well, and move on.
Waller: Age (31) — (20 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Hopkins: Age (31) — (19 out of 34 games last 2 years)
Look, I could see Hopkins having a skill set that lasts. He could still be good.
But I just don’t like the idea of “going in” on both of these guys because you think there’s a specific window. It’s a pretty huge risk if they do it.
It’s risky, don’t get me wrong. But if they trade for Hopkins you know they think we can win sooner than later.
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
If he can be had for a 3rd I’d do it in 2 seconds
He already said he would rework deal too
Imagine 2 third rounders allow us to add to vet playmakers….I mean it’s a no brainer
Hodgins
Slayton
Campbell
Shepard
Wan'Dale
Barkley
Breida
Waller
Bellinger
Wow.
You’re forgetting that 4 to 6 of these men will be on injured reserve by week 4.
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If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
No, I said if you think Hopkins is done or on the backside. You Beckham fans believe the hype so much, the guy is at best a rental for a short 8-10 week stretch. He is an injury waiting to happen and a distraction..
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
For once I agree with you, because I don’t think there is much of a market for Hopkins. It’s a bit like the Randy Moss situation where New England got him for a 4th round pick
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And it's going to be like this for the next several years because the QBs are average vis-a-vis the AFC.
Like I said earlier, if Schoen believes Hopkins has three quality years left, make the move.
For once I agree with you, because I don’t think there is much of a market for Hopkins. It’s a bit like the Randy Moss situation where New England got him for a 4th round pick
If the Giants will be on the hook for the balance of Hopkins’ contract without renegotiating reasonably, they will NEVER pull off that trade, imo..
Solidify the OL, look to the draft, get healthier at WR and we should be good to go, as I see it
At the end of the day, it's all about the draft compensation and more importantly the contract. If Arizona is willing to take some of the weight out of it and Hopkins isn't looking for an extension or infusion of new money, then it's very viable.
At the end of the day, it's all about the draft compensation and more importantly the contract. If Arizona is willing to take some of the weight out of it and Hopkins isn't looking for an extension or infusion of new money, then it's very viable.
Under that scenario, that’s fine with me as a fan
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Extend LW, SB, and AJ and pull this off for a #3 and I'll say we are a potential SB contender.
SB? maybe if we shore up IOL and maybe cb
signing ashawn too
we would be a solid playoff contender hopkins good is he better than odell without comp?
Why not, during the 2021 season when the Eagles were going 9-8 did you think they'd be in the Superbowl the following year?
Why not? He's still playing at an elite level.
I like the player, not the contract.
You keep saying this and I keep correcting you. He's not going to have a 19.5M contract this year AND sign an extension. The extension will restructure the contract and his cap hit would be closer to 10M if not less(See Brandin Cooks).
If he did not sign the extension than his cap hit would be 19.5 and the Giants would be able to cut or trade him any time without a dead cap hit.
+1
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In comment 16072345 jvm52106 said:
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If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
No, I said if you think Hopkins is done or on the backside. You Beckham fans believe the hype so much, the guy is at best a rental for a short 8-10 week stretch. He is an injury waiting to happen and a distraction..
You: "If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ."
It's the very first thing you said, and what I was responding to. Sure, after that you said:
"This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate."
These are two separate statements. You may have intended to use the second statement as a pretext to the first, but for one reading it, the first statement can be taken by itself, and the second statement doesn't qualify the first statement. I agree with you in that I don't think Hopkins is finished. I don't agree with you that if you are against Hopkins coming here you shouldn't be for bringing in OBJ, for the reasons I stated, which is a cost-basis argument, not a performance-related argument.
I understand you and many others are convinced that OBJ is also done, an opinion I don't share. I do think the next significant injury (that requires a reconstructive surgery) would likely be the end of his career. I acknowledge all the risk, and the personality stuff. But I also think, if the stars can align where he stays healthy, much like the Giants are hoping they do for guys like Shepard, Campbell, and Waller, he can put together at least one more special season. I really believe that, because he is supremely talented.
I also think it's a 20% chance or less that Schoen brings him in, so my hopes aren't up, but I also won't be surprised if and when he puts together a terrific year for someone.
My thought is the Giants should get the best receiver they can in the first two rounds, maybe JSN or Hyatt in the first, or a Tillman or Scott in the 2nd. They need a young difference-maker in that group that doesn't have the wear-and-tear that exists with the rest of them.
Absent a significant addition, I expect that this time next year they will have signed a free agent WR at significant money. But there aren't guys set for free agency next year that I think fit the bill. Aiyuk, Jeudy, Jefferson, Lamb, all will have their options for the 5th year exercised. A few names... Tee Higgins I would be in favor of, and Mike Evans, who I'm not sure is the right scheme fit. Michael Pittman I also think isn't a scheme fit. I think Higgins fits any scheme. Calvin Ridley would be a hand-in-glove fit here, if the Jaguars don't extend him, which I expect they will do.
Now, if we're talking Brandon Aiyuk or Jerry Jeudy, and we didn't have to part with a first rounder, I'd be ok with that deal. Jeudy seems more realistic.
The most ideal situation for me would be the Giants to solve for the WR1 through the draft, because I believe that will help the Giants allocate more money to the defense where we really need it. I think they are really close to a championship-caliber defense, which I believe to be necessary for this era of Giants' football to compete for a SB.
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In comment 16072370 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16072345 jvm52106 said:
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If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Wut? Fail. You absolutely can be for OBJ and against Hopkins, based on the fact that Hopkins will cost at least a premium pick, and OBJ doesn't, and based on the fact that OBJ's salary would assuredly involve less guaranteed money, and less money overall, with significant protection to the club should he be re-injured, because whatever deal OBJ gets will be incentive-laden.
And let's not act like Nuk isn't a diva receiver. Let's not act like he's the cleanest player with no downside.
Sure, side by side, removing the cost equation from them, Hopkins is the safer bet.
But absolutely is there a strong case to be made that OBJ is the more cost-effective bet because he doesn't involve draft comp and won't command nearly asuch guaranteed money.
No, I said if you think Hopkins is done or on the backside. You Beckham fans believe the hype so much, the guy is at best a rental for a short 8-10 week stretch. He is an injury waiting to happen and a distraction..
You: "If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ."
It's the very first thing you said, and what I was responding to. Sure, after that you said:
"This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate."
These are two separate statements. You may have intended to use the second statement as a pretext to the first, but for one reading it, the first statement can be taken by itself, and the second statement doesn't qualify the first statement. I agree with you in that I don't think Hopkins is finished. I don't agree with you that if you are against Hopkins coming here you shouldn't be for bringing in OBJ, for the reasons I stated, which is a cost-basis argument, not a performance-related argument.
I understand you and many others are convinced that OBJ is also done, an opinion I don't share. I do think the next significant injury (that requires a reconstructive surgery) would likely be the end of his career. I acknowledge all the risk, and the personality stuff. But I also think, if the stars can align where he stays healthy, much like the Giants are hoping they do for guys like Shepard, Campbell, and Waller, he can put together at least one more special season. I really believe that, because he is supremely talented.
I also think it's a 20% chance or less that Schoen brings him in, so my hopes aren't up, but I also won't be surprised if and when he puts together a terrific year for someone.
My thought is the Giants should get the best receiver they can in the first two rounds, maybe JSN or Hyatt in the first, or a Tillman or Scott in the 2nd. They need a young difference-maker in that group that doesn't have the wear-and-tear that exists with the rest of them.
Absent a significant addition, I expect that this time next year they will have signed a free agent WR at significant money. But there aren't guys set for free agency next year that I think fit the bill. Aiyuk, Jeudy, Jefferson, Lamb, all will have their options for the 5th year exercised. A few names... Tee Higgins I would be in favor of, and Mike Evans, who I'm not sure is the right scheme fit. Michael Pittman I also think isn't a scheme fit. I think Higgins fits any scheme. Calvin Ridley would be a hand-in-glove fit here, if the Jaguars don't extend him, which I expect they will do.
Now, if we're talking Brandon Aiyuk or Jerry Jeudy, and we didn't have to part with a first rounder, I'd be ok with that deal. Jeudy seems more realistic.
The most ideal situation for me would be the Giants to solve for the WR1 through the draft, because I believe that will help the Giants allocate more money to the defense where we really need it. I think they are really close to a championship-caliber defense, which I believe to be necessary for this era of Giants' football to compete for a SB.
Again, he may put up 2 super superb years in a row, perhaps HOF years, but the major problem for Dabes in the now in sync lockerroom, is the social media frenzy he will bring and always will bring to the team. Dabes cannot possibly want that, even if OBJ performs as an all-star. This is my opinion that is most likely Schoen’s and Dabes’, imv..
Not about talent
Giants are too smart to bring in a guy like that.
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Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
It's a lot of money for a player who can't stay healthy.
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In comment 16072292 section125 said:
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Hopkins $19.5 mill contract this year and $14.5 mill next year and then need to deal with him wanting an extension, plus the honor of giving up draft picks.
I like the player, not the contract.
Is that really a lot of money for a #1 receiver?? Extend LW, and Adoree. That alone get's you there. No other player in FA or the draft would have a bigger impact on the 2023 season IMO.
It's a lot of money for a player who can't stay healthy.
lol. do people just look at espn stats and games played and then just parrot the same things? He had 1 year where he battled an injury and he's fully healed from the torn MCL which is not a long term debilitating injury.
You keep saying this. Sheesh, FA recently started, they’ll fill in the OL via FA depth signings abd through the draft. Do you really believe, after last season, that this won’t be addressed?
Extreme interest? Weird post.
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with their extreme interest in shiny big name players on the wrong side of 30. Didn't anyone read the thread about how bad and ranked last our oline is?
Extreme interest? Weird post.
Extreme interest might be overstating it, but I think what he is saying and I don't want to speak with him, is that if we were to get Hopkins, we would have also singed Waller ( a guy with an injury history) and are paying Barkley (another guy with an injury history) and that the real problem with our skill players could be that our OL does not give the offense enough time to operate. I think if we sign guys like Waller and Hopkins and franchised Barkley (with the intent of a new deal) and our Offensive Line is horrendous--it is a bad move by our GM. This thought that everything Joe Schoen does or is rumored to do is unassailable is getting old quickly. Jerry Reese tried this exact same strategy and it failed miserably. Fix the offensive line (and I am not saying he won't through the draft), but I don't blame people for questioning priorities until he does so.
Why do people think that bringing in (2) 30 year olds will prevent anything?
In other words, when Schoen & Daboll got here they probably didn't imagine re-signing Jones, Barkley, Slayton, Dex, etc. The players won them over and they had more success than anticipated, and that has caused them to manage the next 3 years differently.
Essentially they went from "slow rebuild" mode to "competitive window". And that changed at some point during the year.
In other words, when Schoen & Daboll got here they probably didn't imagine re-signing Jones, Barkley, Slayton, Dex, etc. The players won them over and they had more success than anticipated, and that has caused them to manage the next 3 years differently.
Essentially they went from "slow rebuild" mode to "competitive window". And that changed at some point during the year.
presumably it was whenever they decided they were sold on jones. rico reported they went hard on dj moore at the deadline, so if i was guessing a specific game maybe the green bay win october 9th after saquon went out and jones still led the 4q comeback.
Why do people think that bringing in (2) 30 year olds will prevent anything?
nobody say they can't, but they haven't yet. Until then, people are going to be skeptical. Plus, we have not helped our offensive line we have only lost players from it. So, we have a lot of work to do there and I think if we are able to get it done and improve in that area--most will be happy. Until then, I don't really think they are wrong if they allow for the possibility that it can change because the off season isnt over.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
No, the point is don't get Hopkins as a substitute for a shitty Oline in the hope that it will paper over those cracks. If both are on the agenda and can feasibly be done--fine. You are assuming it is getting done, which is just as crappy an argument as someone who assumes it won't get done. We don't know, but the point is one without the other is not going to help up get where we want to be as an offense.
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Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
They must like our OL better than PFF's dead last ranking.
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In comment 16072609 Kmed6000 said:
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Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
They must like our OL better than PFF's dead last ranking.
I hear you. No doubt they stunk last year much of the year...
Learning curve in new system, Neal's horrid rookie year, Feliciano stinking for most of year, not realizing Bredeson was actually half decent, injuries, all were big contributing factors.
This year its a bit different and in theory improved:
LT Thomas- top 5 in NFL
LG- Glowinski- average but adequate
OC - Bredeson - projects quite a bit better than Feliciano, EZ and Lemieux backups and will take snaps at OC
RG- Ezeudu high 3rd and flashed, excellent feet
RT 2nd year Neal, with Phillips as the backup plan
Right or wrong they probably think this is a strong enough group 2nd year in the system and with 2 starters no longer rookies but 2nd year players. They probably add somewhere in the draft here too.
I know this reality, getting Hopkins at any price (cheap or not) is not worth anything without a functional offensive line. That I know. So, if you can't do both you might as well save the draft capital and invest in that offensive line. Great skill players are always available for a variety of reasons--if we miss the boat on Hopkins (at age 30 and coming off a PED Ban) we will live. But, again, if both can be done, I am for it.
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In comment 16072615 CornerStone246+17 said:
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In comment 16072609 Kmed6000 said:
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Don't get Hopkins because they haven't filled out the OL yet? Even though there is still time and resources.
DHop probably gets eother subsidized by Arizona or his contract gets reworked by Giants. He won't be a 19M cap hit. Probably like Cowboys it'll be at least 6M less.
Also they have about 30-40M they can add to cap space with restructures or extensions of 4 or 5 players.
They can absolutely fit D-Hop and they may like our OL more than we do.
Ezeudu apparently they are very high on as a high third, he also flashed and probably see him as a starter next year. Bred has surpassed expectations and have been an adequate if unspectacular starter for us. He probably is an upgrade at OC over Feliciano.
I also hope for another OL but I like Bred and Ezeudus movement/lateral agility. I think they can be at least adequate IOL for us. My big concern is the progression of Neal.
They must like our OL better than PFF's dead last ranking.
I hear you. No doubt they stunk last year much of the year...
Learning curve in new system, Neal's horrid rookie year, Feliciano stinking for most of year, not realizing Bredeson was actually half decent, injuries, all were big contributing factors.
This year its a bit different and in theory improved:
LT Thomas- top 5 in NFL
LG- Glowinski- average but adequate
OC - Bredeson - projects quite a bit better than Feliciano, EZ and Lemieux backups and will take snaps at OC
RG- Ezeudu high 3rd and flashed, excellent feet
RT 2nd year Neal, with Phillips as the backup plan
Right or wrong they probably think this is a strong enough group 2nd year in the system and with 2 starters no longer rookies but 2nd year players. They probably add somewhere in the draft here too.
3 guys changing positions on the OL doesn't seem like a good way to settle things down.
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Hopkins
Hodgins
Slayton
Campbell
Shepard
Wan'Dale
Barkley
Breida
Waller
Bellinger
Wow.
You’re forgetting that 4 to 6 of these men will be on injured reserve by week 4.
Good. That still leaves 4-6 healthy unlike every other year when we get hit by injuries…
Crazy.
Figured this was as good a post as any to agree and build on this premise. I have always said and speculated that some of the best kept secrets in championship building is to sign the older but productive guys in FA. Sure you get them for less years and sure there is risk that player fades out. In a perfect world you'd get the 25 year old in his prime player but perfect doesn't exist, especially in FA, and I still say the 25 year old is just as likely to get hurt as the cagey 30 year old and in some cases that cagey and savy player is less an injury risk than many think.
Again, not saying you want a bunch of old guys but go look at NFL history and you will see plenty of title winning teams that got there on the backs of older players. You most definitely can turn a good team into a great one by adding an older player and to suggest otherwise or to ignore that method is just....shortsighted.
That's a helluva playmaking trio.
Imagine saying "no thanks" to one of the best WR's in football. Lol.
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
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Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
Daboll/Kafka would have a ton of playcalling options to choose from.
Waller
Hopkins
Hodgins
Parris
Slayton
Bellinger
WanDale/Shep recovering.
Locked and loaded
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who knows.
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Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
If Cooks was a 5 and 6. D-Hop feels like a 4th with 6-8M of his contract subsidized by Arizona or a salary rework by his acquiring team for a smaller cap hit.
Uh, except OBJ is far cheaper—both in terms of salary and draft capital to acquire. But, by all means, keep on pushing your narrative about how great of an idea it is to trade at least a prime pick and mortgage the future for an expensive wr the wrong side of 30 who’s missed time and had a recent PED suspension …
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If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Uh, except OBJ is far cheaper—both in terms of salary and draft capital to acquire. But, by all means, keep on pushing your narrative about how great of an idea it is to trade at least a prime pick and mortgage the future for an expensive wr the wrong side of 30 who’s missed time and had a recent PED suspension …
Remember when OBJ was OBJ. He was on a HOF trajectory and put up insane numbers. The last time he did that was 2016. Hopkins has been doing that his whole career and did it as recently as 2020 and was on pace in 2022 to do it again. OBJ is not that dude.
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In comment 16072345 jvm52106 said:
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If you are against Hopkins coming here you sure better not push OBJ. This idea that Hopkins is done is beyond stupid and completely inaccurate. He is WAY more a sure thing than MR King of hype and self promotion OBJ. Beckham, coming off his second ACL and who missed all of last year and most of the last three years is absolutely not they guy for this team..
Uh, except OBJ is far cheaper—both in terms of salary and draft capital to acquire. But, by all means, keep on pushing your narrative about how great of an idea it is to trade at least a prime pick and mortgage the future for an expensive wr the wrong side of 30 who’s missed time and had a recent PED suspension …
Remember when OBJ was OBJ. He was on a HOF trajectory and put up insane numbers. The last time he did that was 2016. Hopkins has been doing that his whole career and did it as recently as 2020 and was on pace in 2022 to do it again. OBJ is not that dude.
This is the main point here. OBJ is so much more injury prone than Hopkins.
Waller
Hopkins
Barkley
That's a very high end top 3 that can compete with any team's top 3 if healthy.
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who knows.
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Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
Update: The #Cardinals will not be able to get their initial asking price of a "2nd round pick and another asset" in a trade for WR DeAndre Hopkins, per @AlbertBreer
He thinks it will be closer to the #Cowboys Brandin Cooks trade of a 5th and 6th round picks.
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
if i were arizona id be looking to pay down as much $ as possible and take whatever pick this year (2023) in return for a good conditional pick in 2024. i.e. maybe it's a day 3 but if he's still on the team's roster in 2024, it's a 2nd or 3rd. or if he makes a pro bowl.
if i were the nyg, that's the type of offer i'd also consider. you are only giving up a day 2 pick if he plays well enough to stick around next year.
I don't think the acquiring team will get that fortunate - the Cooks package - but anything close (say a 3rd/4th/5th combination) will be well worth getting involved in.
if i were arizona id be looking to pay down as much $ as possible and take whatever pick this year (2023) in return for a good conditional pick in 2024. i.e. maybe it's a day 3 but if he's still on the team's roster in 2024, it's a 2nd or 3rd. or if he makes a pro bowl.
if i were the nyg, that's the type of offer i'd also consider. you are only giving up a day 2 pick if he plays well enough to stick around next year.
That's a good idea. But Arizona has a first time GM - M. Ossenfort - and first time HC - J.Gannon. So, who the hell knows where they want to go and how sophisticated Ossenfort is at this sort of thing.