In 2022, Kelce was ranked as the 10th best with of a score of 75 including 78 for getting open, 65 for catching, and 50 for YAC.
However, if our TE Waller returns to his 2020 form he was ranked 11th with a 73 score including 73 for getting open, 68 for catching, and 50 for YAC. Healthy, he's only a notch below Kelce. Complain all you want about his last 2 years, but you aren't going to get a guy like that for a 3rd round comp pick. That was a phenomenal pickup! He's our #1 receiving option. Engram who supposedly had a breakout year was ranked 91st with a total score of 41 including 42 getting open, 46 catching (no surprise there) and 41 YAC. Our TE group is now dramatically improved. It is highly unlikely that any TE we draft this year would produce like Waller.
Some would have preferred we get Hopkins, who ranked 26th last year with a total score of 65 including 63 getting open, 75 catching, and 37 YAC. But he will cost a lot more in trade and salary than Waller did.
Some would have preferred we get Jeudy who was ranked 24th (tied with D Adams) with a total score of 66 which included an 80 for getting open, 45 for catching, and 49 for YAC. His ability for getting open is great and that's why the GM wanted him but the cost of a 1st round was too high.
Coming in 21st place was the under appreciated Hodgins who had a total score of 67 which included a 63 for getting open, 85 for catching, and 32 for YAC. Yes, he ranked better than Adams, Jeudy, Sutton, Chark, Cooks, and Scantling.
Almost as surprising is that R. James ranked 26th tied with Hopkins with a total score of 65 including a 65 for getting open, 78 for catching, and 30 for YAC.
Our newly re-signed D Slayton came in 55th with a total score of 53, which is still above average and included a score of 67 for getting open, 30 for catching (drops), and 56 YAC. He ranked better than Sutton, Chark, Cooks, and Scantling.
Using analytics, our no-name receiving corps is a lot better than average. They just don't get the recognition they properly deserve.
For those wondering about Paris Campbell, he came in at 100th with a total score of 37. He's not been very good. Hopefully, they see something they think they can fix.
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first half last year (pre hodgins) the WRs were terrible. worst in NFL or close.
second half last year with hodgins and james/slayton in their solidified roles they were probably closer to replacement level across the board (average).
waller healthy should boost a league average unit because he's a legitimate impact player. but to use your KC example, despite Kelce being healthy and dominant as usual, their offense was held back by mediocre WRs all year. and Juju is probably still better than anyone the nyg have right now. the open market of UFA thought so at least.
it is what it is and it was a bad year to need a WR upgrade. so far there hasnt been any major upgrade transacted anywhere on the market, but imo it's still a top need heading into the draft. especially when you factor in the injury histories of waller/campbell.
first half last year (pre hodgins) the WRs were terrible. worst in NFL or close.
second half last year with hodgins and james/slayton in their solidified roles they were probably closer to replacement level across the board (average).
waller healthy should boost a league average unit because he's a legitimate impact player. but to use your KC example, despite Kelce being healthy and dominant as usual, their offense was held back by mediocre WRs all year. and Juju is probably still better than anyone the nyg have right now. the open market of UFA thought so at least.
it is what it is and it was a bad year to need a WR upgrade. so far there hasnt been any major upgrade transacted anywhere on the market, but imo it's still a top need heading into the draft. especially when you factor in the injury histories of waller/campbell.
+1
And Nobody undervalues Hodgins here. Most people like Slayton, he has a lot of positives but he is a body catcher with a high % of drops, average route runner, his propensity to disappear in large parts of games. Richie James adds value to the roster but he is not scaring anyone, and the Giants have yet to resign him.
Doing a cursory glance at teams maybe with a top 3 maybe less skilled than us:
NYG: Hodgins, Slayton, Campbell
Baltimore: Bateman, Duvernay, Proche
Houston: Woods, Collins, Noah Brown
KC: MVS, Toney, Moore
Tenn: Burks, Westbrook-Ikhine, Philips
Atlanta: London, Hollins, Darby
Carolina: Thielen, Marshall, Shi Smith
Slayton is far from a #1 (there's a reason he had to take a paycut and barely made the team last yr); he has very inconsistent hands. Shep hasn't stayed healthy in years and he was far from a #1 even when he was healthy.
Waller was a top 3 or so TE a few yrs ago, but it remains to be seen if he can stay healthy and produce like that again. Campbell has 1 decent season after multiple injury riddled ones.
No, I don't think we've under appreciated our receiving corps. Jones did the best he could with the group he had last yr, but it still needs something close to a #1 (which i hope we draft in the 1st or 2nd rd).
We have chunk yardage players in Barkley, Waller, Slayton also Hodgins and Bellinger to a lesser degree.
Add in Parris, a full year of Hodgins and I think the position is stable. No need to panic. I'd rather panic draft defense and OL.
This wasn't the 2018 or 2015 offense that scored just enough points to lose. Virtually every week they scored 20+. They didn't go for 33 in a losing effort and then 14 the following week in another losing effort.
The OL needs some more development and likely needs a talent infusion at he interior. You can always use a stud WR, especially NYG, but the offense is the least of my worries.
The Giants won't win 2-3-4 playoff games until the D is the best in the east or in the conversation.
This wasn't the 2018 or 2015 offense that scored just enough points to lose. Virtually every week they scored 20+. They didn't go for 33 in a losing effort and then 14 the following week in another losing effort.
The OL needs some more development and likely needs a talent infusion at he interior. You can always use a stud WR, especially NYG, but the offense is the least of my worries.
The Giants won't win 2-3-4 playoff games until the D is the best in the east or in the conversation.
Not sure I can agree with this. First off, I don't think we won with our offense. I think the offense and defense complemented each other perfectly and played an equal role in our success. However, the success of the offense was based solely on the ability to run. Between SB and DJ, that was the offense for the most part.
Our guys did what they could last year. But it wasn’t anywhere near where it will need to be for us to start scoring 25ppg or more. And that’s about where I think we need to be if we are going to make legitimate noise in the playoffs.
8 of our 17 games were against playoff teams (Dallas x2, Philly x2, Jax, Baltimore, Seattle, Minny), and we went 2-6 in the regular season against these teams. We had 3 wins where we scored under 20 points or fewer (and a 20 point tie), which usually doesn't translate to a victory (Carolina, Chicago, WFT win, WFT tie). We only scored 25+ points twice in 17 games, which only one other playoff team even came close to.
Bengals: 10/17
Chiefs: 14/17
Dallas: 11/17
Philly: 14/17
Bills: 10/17
Jags: 7/17
Chargers: 6/17
Dolphins: 6/17
Vikings: 10/17
49ers: 9/17
Seattle: 7/17
Bucs: 2/17
Yes, our O got it done when we needed a clock killing drive against Carolina or Chicago, but that's the sign of an O doing what it should be doing.
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we WON last year because of our offense first, defense second. Not a knock on the D, just the facts. The D did enough, the offense did more. Everyone points to the pts scored as some sort of indictment but while the stats say the offense was barely above average, the details say the offense was quite consistent, even if it was slightly above average. When we needed a drive we got it. When we needed a first down to kill clock we got it. When we needed to score 17 pts in a half, we did so. That is not the hallmark of a bad or below average offense.
This wasn't the 2018 or 2015 offense that scored just enough points to lose. Virtually every week they scored 20+. They didn't go for 33 in a losing effort and then 14 the following week in another losing effort.
The OL needs some more development and likely needs a talent infusion at he interior. You can always use a stud WR, especially NYG, but the offense is the least of my worries.
The Giants won't win 2-3-4 playoff games until the D is the best in the east or in the conversation.
Not sure I can agree with this. First off, I don't think we won with our offense. I think the offense and defense complemented each other perfectly and played an equal role in our success. However, the success of the offense was based solely on the ability to run. Between SB and DJ, that was the offense for the most part.
Fair it was probably closer to 50-50 in terms of heavy lifting, but I think the O is in a better place or maybe should say it's in a safer place. Who knows. I just want a better defense. Last year was a start.
This wasn't the 2018 or 2015 offense that scored just enough points to lose. Virtually every week they scored 20+. They didn't go for 33 in a losing effort and then 14 the following week in another losing effort.
The OL needs some more development and likely needs a talent infusion at he interior. You can always use a stud WR, especially NYG, but the offense is the least of my worries.
The Giants won't win 2-3-4 playoff games until the D is the best in the east or in the conversation.
I have to disagree with this. The Giants defense
held opponents under 23 points, 12 of 17 games and held them under at least 23 for the first 7 games. The defense gave up an average of 18 points a game before the bye week and X breaking his hand.
Coincidentally, the Giants were 6-1. The offense averaged 21 points in that time. Let's no act like the Offense was a juggernaut. The defense kept them in those games. Luckily the O was able to capitalize at the end of games.
Sorry I couldn’t help myself.
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In comment 16072752 djm said:
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we WON last year because of our offense first, defense second. Not a knock on the D, just the facts. The D did enough, the offense did more. Everyone points to the pts scored as some sort of indictment but while the stats say the offense was barely above average, the details say the offense was quite consistent, even if it was slightly above average. When we needed a drive we got it. When we needed a first down to kill clock we got it. When we needed to score 17 pts in a half, we did so. That is not the hallmark of a bad or below average offense.
This wasn't the 2018 or 2015 offense that scored just enough points to lose. Virtually every week they scored 20+. They didn't go for 33 in a losing effort and then 14 the following week in another losing effort.
The OL needs some more development and likely needs a talent infusion at he interior. You can always use a stud WR, especially NYG, but the offense is the least of my worries.
The Giants won't win 2-3-4 playoff games until the D is the best in the east or in the conversation.
Not sure I can agree with this. First off, I don't think we won with our offense. I think the offense and defense complemented each other perfectly and played an equal role in our success. However, the success of the offense was based solely on the ability to run. Between SB and DJ, that was the offense for the most part.
Fair it was probably closer to 50-50 in terms of heavy lifting, but I think the O is in a better place or maybe should say it's in a safer place. Who knows. I just want a better defense. Last year was a start.
Agreed. My take is the Giants won as a team. Both units (and STs as a whole) played at least as well as the sum of their parts and had their great and goat moments.
The Giants O managed above average results; the 538 WR stats support my eyeballs: guys got open enough, Slayton dropped too many balls, Hodgins was a vacuum, nobody got much YAC.
Jones created his own time and space; if not for his legs, the O would have been pitiful.
We now (already) have majorly upgraded speed and target diversity, particularly if Waller is close to form. Those things create time and space. The same OL is better; Jones is better; the same WRs will have more YAC opportunity.
With some defensive limitations despite some really good players the offense maintaining a high play count and TOP was a very big deal imv.
Where the warts showed with the WR's was when they struggled more running the ball outside Minnesota who had a very poor pass defense.
You have the trifecta of QB/OL/Skill guys and when I look at assigning blame for some passing deficiencies I rank them OL worst followed closely by skill guys and then a good distance to when you fault Jones imv.