I am astonished at the lack of urgency for the DE position on this site. I go into Eric's depth chart above and I see two rows for the DL position, one for Nose Tackle and one for Defensive tackle. It's like the third DL has been eliminated on this site and for good reason, we only have two quality DL on the roster. The rest are practice squad type players with no disrespect to the newly acquired Nachos. His primary role should be to spell big Dex, not be a primary starter in the front seven. A'shawn is not the answer either.
I was dismayed over the many threads clamoring to bring back Dalvin Tomlinson. His presence on the roster was the very reason Big Dex played out of position for three years. There were many threads calling for him to be traded because he did not excel or get to the QB as a 3-4 DL. He is a 345 LB hippopotamus of a man and he is finally at the position he was born to play. We now have an all-pro monster anchoring the middle of our 3-4 defense.
This defense is set up perfectly right now to be an excellent 3-4 defense. We have two nice edge players in KT and Ojulari. We just aquired Okereke and have options at the second middle spot. The front three? We have Leo, Dex and who? A black hole, the cubbard is bare. What this defense is severely missing is a bookend to Leo. A play making 3-4 DE in his own right, hopefully someone with the potential to be even better than Leo.
The requirements for this position is a D lineman who possesses a skill set of size to play the run and length/speed to chase down the QB and running backs. We want someone 6'5" and up, 275 to 290lb range who can run with 4.6 to 4.8 speed. There are quite a few candidates that should be available with our first pick. Players like Van ness, Wilson and Murphy are most likely off the board. The next group is Bryan Bresse, Tuipulotu, Keion White, Adebawore, and Isaiah Foskey. Most of these guys are in the top 40 on many draft boards so they are probably gone when we pick.
Yes BBI, our team has many needs and I do not disagree. We need a center for sure but we have used two extremely high top-10 picks on the OL. The Cowboys had an OL stacked with first rounders some years ago, the very best in the NFL yet they never won jack. It has been well documented here many times: most teams in the NFL have very few number one picks invested in their OLs. If you draft smartly, you can find IOL candidates in the mid rounds who can get the job done. Not so much for a gifted DE. Another CB, yes it would be nice but we have options at the position. WR? Will a true number one be on the board when we pick. Plus the Wr and TE rooms look a lot better than they did a week ago. Another edge? I know Ojulari has been banged up but at least we have him and some options behind him. Don't forget, Leo also had a lot of injury problems last year as well. Imagine this defense if anything happens to Leo and Dex. When was the last time this franchise invested top draft capital in a DE? Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka: a very long time ago.
In closing, last Tuesday I posted a thread about signing Parris Campbell. I missed the last name being mis-spelled and it became a pictorial of camels. I hope to get better feed-back on this topic than I received in that thread. Our GM and coach seemed to agree with me on taking a chance on Campbell and his excellent skill set, despite a checkered beginning to his career. I think they will agree with me on this one too. Schoen played an integral role in Buffalo drafting Rousseau, Boogie Basham and Epenesa in back-to-back drafts with first and second round picks. That was with a already quite stout Bill's DL. We are in critical need for a player at this position and I think when Schoen looks at the depth chart board, he realizes it also. A big upgrade at this position will have the single biggest impact of any on our team simply because we have a great big zero there at this time. You can not say that about any other position on our team. So BBI, give some names you like at DE in rounds one and two.
That being said, DLine is important BUT, it is a 3 man line, not designed to be the focal point of the defense- Edge, CB's and LB's are the main focus of the playmakers and we have a LOT of money tied up in the position already. Every need area can't be the glaring need area and value and pick area does come into play.
I would say WR, CB/LB- playmakers, IOL are our top three priorities for the early part of the draft or still here in FA/Trade season.
I would much prefer we get deals done with DL and LW, free up money and sign a VET with experience in our type of system- then look to later rounds to get a developmental guy at DL.
Need to hero your 160 million dollar investment upright and healthy
1. Ocyrus Torrance Guard
2. John Michael Schmitt Center
Need to hero your 160 million dollar investment upright and healthy
1. Ocyrus Torrance Guard
2. John Michael Schmitt Center
+1
However, I do think that we should look to add to the DL somewhere in from round 3 on...
Depends on how it shakes out.
IMO - IOL, CB, and WR are the top priorities followed by DL and Edge
I think it's a lot more likely that we take a DL with some inside out versatility and some juice as an interior rusher in the first than an OC given how this draft stacks up. There are a lot of DL and Edges in this draft that fit Winks "positionless defense" for sure. Still think it's more likely we go WR or CB at 25 but if the guys they like are off the board, this seems like the most likely pivot.
That said, if there’s a great DL prospect who is the BPA at one of their picks, Robinson doesn’t stop me from taking him - they do need a long term plan alongside Dex. But as far as the 2023 team, the rotation is much stronger than it was in 2022. They have actually NFL quality depth.
A player I really like in this DL group is Benton from Wisconsin. Think he’ll be a very good IDL at the NFL level. I’ve noticed this regime has emphasized size on the IDL - Benton seems to fit their prototype. Mazi Smith is another one, but have heard he has character issues.
Need to hero your 160 million dollar investment upright and healthy
1. Ocyrus Torrance Guard
2. John Michael Schmitt Center
This!!! Set up oline for yrs!
I think the issue is that so many late 1st round DL turn out to be average non impact players. Not busts. Just not plus players. But if Schoen and the scouts have a conviction about a DL slated to go late in the first, I believe they will take him if they can.
Need to hero your 160 million dollar investment upright and healthy
1. Ocyrus Torrance Guard
2. John Michael Schmitt Center
This is crazy.
If anything we need another Edge player to bring depth. Imagine if KT gets hurt? or Ojulari is knicked up again. Fox is pretty good but not somebody you want out there for 50 snaps. Elerson Smith hasn't really shown much so far. Ward is more of a run stopper and is a DE in a true 3-4 look.
5 Tech Edge is very possible target at 25 or day 2. Positional value.
That said, if there’s a great DL prospect who is the BPA at one of their picks, Robinson doesn’t stop me from taking him - they do need a long term plan alongside Dex. But as far as the 2023 team, the rotation is much stronger than it was in 2022. They have actually NFL quality depth.
A player I really like in this DL group is Benton from Wisconsin. Think he’ll be a very good IDL at the NFL level. I’ve noticed this regime has emphasized size on the IDL - Benton seems to fit their prototype. Mazi Smith is another one, but have heard he has character issues.
Agreed, if they sign Robinson then the DL is in good shape with Lawrence, Williams, Robinson, Nacho, and DJ Davidson. If a DL is the BPA at any point in the draft then he should be the pick. You can never have too much depth up front.
Leonard Marshall, Stray and Osi were picked in the second. Tuck in the third. They are the best we have had. I hope someone like Bryan Bresee drops to us, would run to the podium with the pick.
So, if you look at roster building the spot of those positions they have not drafted for is DL.
This year the draft is weird at DL.
I just hope they add the best player at any of those spots day 1 and 2 of the draft…
Thibs and Ojulari are linebackers and Ojulari is weak against the run. You should see the amount of times where teams would see him on the field and run at him.
But we have no center (maybe Bredeson), a below average right guard, a young guy at LG who needs to develop, and are counting on Robinson, Holmes, Flott or Williams to be the No. 2 CB, and we still don't know if we have a WR who other teams will even worry about. We have helped the LB position by signing an off-the-ball guy, not a thumper, and are hoping Beavers can be a big factor against the run. So every one of those positions is in the same situation as DL. The Giants have a lot of quantity but no one knows what the quality will be. I'll trust this regime to know what they are doing until they show me they don't.
This is what drives me crazy about many NY fans. No patience. Forget that Schoen and Daboll have performed miracles in just over a year. Winning a playoff game when most here didn't think they could win 5 games. NY fans want a star at every position. Just look at all the hand wringing over the Yankees left field situation. A platoon of Cabrera and Calhoun is hands down better than what most teams have hitting at the bottom of the order, and would certainly be an improvement over Hicks from last year. If not for Hicks' contract, that platoon would likely already be officially in place. But fans wanted them to go sign a free agent name like Profar, who would probably not be as good as that platoon.
And it's even harder with a salary cap. So can we get at least league average players at all positions before we start worrying about depth, and give guys we drafted last year a chance to improve and develop? Davidson was drafted for a reason. He looked promising in limited time. Nunez-Roches was signed for a reason. And if they can sign Robinson, the DL is undoubtedly the best unit on the team.
My sentiments exactly, and yet the Giants seem to think he's a defensive end (see their depth chart).
Someone tell me where I'm wrong, please....
I don't think you have to have all all pro players but it is important to be upper tier as a unit. This has always served the Giants well and in the NFCE with teams that are built off the running game it is even more critical. Why? You force teams to beat you in the air and I still think in the vast majority of cases teams are not easily able to accomplish this (NFCE is a good example). Giving up over 160/game is not a good formula like last year to NFCE foes.
I like to see a strong run stopper who has pass rush skills and can slide inside. A bigger DE as suggested above.
What can really help the team and offense is generating more turnovers (Giants were near the bottom of the league). Stopping the run and forcing those challenging down/distance situations will help with this imv.
Since the Giants ran a lot of two-man DL with two OLBs, I beg to differ with the OP in that I think the Giants can also be set up as a 4-3 defense with Spagnuolo principles of blitzing and a lot of versatility. Lawrence and Williams would be the two defensive tackles, Lawrence as the 1-tech and Williams as the 3-tech. Thibodeaux would be set as the right defensive end. If Van Ness falls to us at 25 or we trade down for White, Tuipolotu, or Adetomiwa Adebawore, they could slide in as a Justin Tuck-style left defensive end who might reduce inside on passing downs. Ojulari I'd try out as a hybrid SAM linebacker/edge like Von Miller because he isn't an every down DE despite what the Giants think. The linebackers are trickier. Beavers is a big guy with versatility as an edge rusher, he could backup Ojulari. Davis and McFadden could be the MIKE linebackers, both are hitters and McFadden is very good at blitzing. Okereke would be the WILL but become the MIKE in nickel situations, which leaves a backup WILL/safety to come onto the field on passing downs.