Center John Michael Schmitz, who performed incredibly well during three days of Senior Bowl practice and looked good at the Combine, participated in position drills only.
Schmitz is a big, smooth, and fluid blocker but also tough and smart. He’s the only center available this April who could realistically be selected in the first round, and the likelihood of that happening is becoming more and more real. Schmitz is also the only center in this year’s draft considered an immediate starter.
i think he compared him to creed humphrey when he was on with schmelk.
Quote:
As he does every year, Nagy joined Seattle Sports’ Bump and Stacy to discuss the Senior Bowl and players who could be fits for the Seahawks.
During his visit on Tuesday, Nagy highlighted two players who Hawks fans are likely keeping a close eye on when it comes to the draft: Minnesota center John Michael Schmitz and WSU linebacker Daiyan Henley.
Both Schmitz and Henley play key positions of need for Seattle, and Nagy had a lot of great things to say about both of them.
Schmitz, a 2022 All-American, does “everything” well, Nagy said.
“He’s what you’re looking for in a center. He’s played a ton, he can handle it mentally, he’s a good communicator, he’s tough, he’s durable, he’s strong,” Nagy said. ” … He’s stronger than I thought he was watching him in person against really good people. He can really anchor, which I questioned a little bit on tape. So he’s got everything from the neck up, he’s played a ton of football, he’s gonna be able to help the quarterback a ton, you’re gonna be able to take a lot off the quarterback immediately.
“This guy’s ready to play … I think he’s a Day 1 starter and you’ve got a two-contract player that’s going to be a high-level player.”
Very good athletic ability in a well-built compact frame
Quick feet and excellent explosiveness at the snap - light on his feet
Lateral burst allows him to cover a lot of ground on the LOS
Oily hips allows him to redirect & redistribute his weight when necessary
Tight, quick, and effective ability to initiate contact
He is a solid technically sound blocker with his punch and ability to frame a variety of blocks
Frames blocks excellently in the run game
Feet, hands, and eyes all work in unison - allows him to maximize power with excellent timing
Sturdy at the point of attack - constantly churns his feet through contact
Elite reach block ability - can cut off the angle of a 3-technique in outside zone
Does well to scoop block and positions himself well
Accurate and active hands that carry solid weight behind their punch
Precise footwork as a run blocker
Excellent Combo blocker
Attacks the near hip - eyes up - smooth transitions
Excellent range up to the second-level
Utilizes solid body control on the move
Never stagnant, always readjusting his hands and resinking his hips for a more advantageous position
Good anchor and ability to absorb contact
Stays in front of defenders well while moving/mirroring when engaged as a pass protector
Reacts well in pass protection - trusts anchor, feet, and positioning
Smart player with active eyes - did a great job handling twists into the A-Gap
May or may not eat glass - very tough player who plays through the whistle
Aggressively finishes block - true offensive linemen mentality
Weaknesses
More dynamic as a run blocker than in pass protection (still good in PP)
Only has experience at center (not a knock, but a reality)
With a full head of steam, he could get over his toes in space and not exercise the body control we’re accustomed to seeing a bit
When he looks for work as a pass blocker, his pad level rises and it allows defenders to get underneath his armpit:
(Nebraska: Q2, 00:29, 2nd & 7 Mich St: Q2, 13:50 2nd & 9)
Will be 24 years old as a rookie Link - ( New Window )
Center might be the best pick available. A legitimate center would stabilize our OL tremendously. I'd much rather go defense, but I wouldn't criticize a center pick near the end of the round if that happened.
But with all I've heard from Schoen about positional value, don't see him taking a C in Rd 1 no matter how good he is. Having said that its fairly obvious that its a huge need so pretty sure one will be selected at some point in the draft.
… and it casts some doubt on the Creed Humphrey comparison, IMO. Schmitz is actually three months older than Humphrey and probably closer to his physical ceiling than Humphrey was two years ago. Anyway, Humphrey was the 63rd pick. Of course, he would be picked higher today, because he’s a proven pro. Schmitz hasn’t proved anything yet.
If the Giants firmly believe Schmitz can step in as a plus starter from day one, and he’s the clear BPA on their board, he might be a reasonable pick at 25. But if there’s a CB, WR, or EDGE with a similar grade, the opportunity cost of picking a 24-year-old center seems high - especially if that center wasn’t a standout prospect before he got to Mobile.
This minimizing the first round taking of a C is ridiculous, imo.
We haven’t had a legit, consistent C since O’Hara’s heyday. DJq is getting killed up the middle. If it is so easy to find a C in the lower rounds, why haven’twe done so since Brian Williams?
Please stop with the other “priority” positions. This is a priority for DJ’s health and the overall health of the OL..
If we can find another Travis Frederick and it’s the first round, so be it..We are hurting badly there
… and it casts some doubt on the Creed Humphrey comparison, IMO. Schmitz is actually three months older than Humphrey and probably closer to his physical ceiling than Humphrey was two years ago. Anyway, Humphrey was the 63rd pick. Of course, he would be picked higher today, because he’s a proven pro. Schmitz hasn’t proved anything yet.
If the Giants firmly believe Schmitz can step in as a plus starter from day one, and he’s the clear BPA on their board, he might be a reasonable pick at 25. But if there’s a CB, WR, or EDGE with a similar grade, the opportunity cost of picking a 24-year-old center seems high - especially if that center wasn’t a standout prospect before he got to Mobile.
Why would age mean anything? Legitimately you only get 4 to 5 years from a player, so he'd be 28-29 y/o at the end of the 1st contract. Even if you sign an extension with them they'd be in the early 30s at the end of that contract. OLine last longer than most players.
of pick 25. That would be a strictly need pick that would us missing out on better players.
And if he anchors the middle of the line for 10+ years does it really fucking matter when or even what round he’s picked? I hope he is picked not only because I want him but also to just piss off you keyboard gm’s
of pick 25. That would be a strictly need pick that would us missing out on better players.
And if he anchors the middle of the line for 10+ years does it really fucking matter when or even what round he’s picked? I hope he is picked not only because I want him but also to just piss off you keyboard gm’s
And almost forgot, you can do the work but centers that get picked in round one tend to turn out pretty damned good
RE: This minimizing the first round taking of a C is ridiculous, imo.
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
of pick 25. That would be a strictly need pick that would us missing out on better players.
And if he anchors the middle of the line for 10+ years does it really fucking matter when or even what round he’s picked? I hope he is picked not only because I want him but also to just piss off you keyboard gm’s
And almost forgot, you can do the work but centers that get picked in round one tend to turn out pretty damned good
Yup, many do, iirc
RE: RE: This minimizing the first round taking of a C is ridiculous, imo.
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
RE: RE: RE: This minimizing the first round taking of a C is ridiculous, imo.
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This minimizing the first round taking of a C is ridiculous, imo.
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
Curious, did Bredeson play any C in college or anywhere else?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This minimizing the first round taking of a C is ridiculous, imo.
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
Curious, did Bredeson play any C in college or anywhere else?
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
Curious, did Bredeson play any C in college or anywhere else?
They gave him some reps at Senior Bowl
He is a lineman projects well to the position. And it certainly seems like Daboll/JS are thinking the same way. He played OC in games already and pretty sure took multiple snaps there in pre-season as well.
Could potentially be true, namely at WR, CB and edge.
I still think posters here, even after 10 years of OL futility, underrate how important C is. You win in football from the inside out. Having an above average-elite center would help this offense tremendously. If JMS provides that he should seriously be in play.
Ultimately you can find guys later, and contrarily you can pick guys early (Flowers, Richburg, Pugh etc) who don't live up to expectations.
its like "if we don't get our starting center IN RD 1, all is lost!! That's beyond silly, 2-4 rds is when you would normally draft a center. the Frederick's of the world are by FAR the exception, not the norm.
I would never, ever, ever take a C in the first round
DJ is going to continue to be under siege. How wonderful it would be for DJ, with his arm, actually be able to step up and throw..
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
RE: I would never, ever, ever take a C in the first round
DJ is going to continue to be under siege. How wonderful it would be for DJ, with his arm, actually be able to step up and throw..
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
The counterpoint if we are just focusing on draft options is this draft is very deep at Center and many teams have had success finding OC's in round 3 or even 4.
DJ is going to continue to be under siege. How wonderful it would be for DJ, with his arm, actually be able to step up and throw..
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
The counterpoint if we are just focusing on draft options is this draft is very deep at Center and many teams have had success finding OC's in round 3 or even 4.
DJ is going to continue to be under siege. How wonderful it would be for DJ, with his arm, actually be able to step up and throw..
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
The counterpoint if we are just focusing on draft options is this draft is very deep at Center and many teams have had success finding OC's in round 3 or even 4.
I am rooting for you to be right
They need a better hit percentage on OL in general. They nailed Thomas at 4 but missed on so so many others. Unfortunately it's too early to fully know on Neal and Ezeudu yet as these are Schoen's draft picks you know they will be given at minimum this year to succeed. Bredeson is a lower ceiling but the floor is higher because he has played adequately and they probably like what they've seen from him at OC. Truthfully if he is their #1 guy right now for OC , I'm more concerned with the less proven though higher potential guys in Neal and Ezeudu.
But with all I've heard from Schoen about positional value, don't see him taking a C in Rd 1 no matter how good he is. Having said that its fairly obvious that its a huge need so pretty sure one will be selected at some point in the draft.
Hypothetical question with a few suppositions:
1)The guy is there at 25. Giants boards have him ranked ~ 50th overall in value, meaning as a 2nd rd pick he would be a slam dunk. As a 1st the value, according to the boards and conventional wisdom, isn't there.
2) The Giants ascertain that, were they to pick him, him would be a long term solution and starter at center. They have no doubts about this. None.
3) after looking at what else is available ( including picks that provide more "value" as per ranking and position)
the Giants determine that no other choice they could make, at this time, would either offer more immediate improvement , or long term stability.
Do you make the pick?
Myself, I would. If the rest of the staff feels the same way, you do it, and at that point what it is really is a PR problem more than anything else as you scramble to justify it without getting lynched in the media.
… and it casts some doubt on the Creed Humphrey comparison, IMO. Schmitz is actually three months older than Humphrey and probably closer to his physical ceiling than Humphrey was two years ago. Anyway, Humphrey was the 63rd pick. Of course, he would be picked higher today, because he’s a proven pro. Schmitz hasn’t proved anything yet.
If the Giants firmly believe Schmitz can step in as a plus starter from day one, and he’s the clear BPA on their board, he might be a reasonable pick at 25. But if there’s a CB, WR, or EDGE with a similar grade, the opportunity cost of picking a 24-year-old center seems high - especially if that center wasn’t a standout prospect before he got to Mobile.
Well said. Will be pushing 30 when he signs his first FA contract. All things being near-equal the value is so much higher at those other spots. And when you consider Schoen's comments on positional value (prior to last year's draft) and combine that with their actions in FA so far, especially letting Gates and Feliciano walk, and its very obvious that WR and CB are higher on his priority list.
Schmitz is a big, smooth, and fluid blocker but also tough and smart. He’s the only center available this April who could realistically be selected in the first round, and the likelihood of that happening is becoming more and more real. Schmitz is also the only center in this year’s draft considered an immediate starter.
Link - ( New Window )
During his visit on Tuesday, Nagy highlighted two players who Hawks fans are likely keeping a close eye on when it comes to the draft: Minnesota center John Michael Schmitz and WSU linebacker Daiyan Henley.
Both Schmitz and Henley play key positions of need for Seattle, and Nagy had a lot of great things to say about both of them.
Schmitz, a 2022 All-American, does “everything” well, Nagy said.
“He’s what you’re looking for in a center. He’s played a ton, he can handle it mentally, he’s a good communicator, he’s tough, he’s durable, he’s strong,” Nagy said. ” … He’s stronger than I thought he was watching him in person against really good people. He can really anchor, which I questioned a little bit on tape. So he’s got everything from the neck up, he’s played a ton of football, he’s gonna be able to help the quarterback a ton, you’re gonna be able to take a lot off the quarterback immediately.
“This guy’s ready to play … I think he’s a Day 1 starter and you’ve got a two-contract player that’s going to be a high-level player.”
Very good athletic ability in a well-built compact frame
Quick feet and excellent explosiveness at the snap - light on his feet
Lateral burst allows him to cover a lot of ground on the LOS
Oily hips allows him to redirect & redistribute his weight when necessary
Tight, quick, and effective ability to initiate contact
He is a solid technically sound blocker with his punch and ability to frame a variety of blocks
Frames blocks excellently in the run game
Feet, hands, and eyes all work in unison - allows him to maximize power with excellent timing
Sturdy at the point of attack - constantly churns his feet through contact
Elite reach block ability - can cut off the angle of a 3-technique in outside zone
Does well to scoop block and positions himself well
Accurate and active hands that carry solid weight behind their punch
Precise footwork as a run blocker
Excellent Combo blocker
Attacks the near hip - eyes up - smooth transitions
Excellent range up to the second-level
Utilizes solid body control on the move
Never stagnant, always readjusting his hands and resinking his hips for a more advantageous position
Good anchor and ability to absorb contact
Stays in front of defenders well while moving/mirroring when engaged as a pass protector
Reacts well in pass protection - trusts anchor, feet, and positioning
Smart player with active eyes - did a great job handling twists into the A-Gap
May or may not eat glass - very tough player who plays through the whistle
Aggressively finishes block - true offensive linemen mentality
Weaknesses
More dynamic as a run blocker than in pass protection (still good in PP)
Only has experience at center (not a knock, but a reality)
With a full head of steam, he could get over his toes in space and not exercise the body control we’re accustomed to seeing a bit
When he looks for work as a pass blocker, his pad level rises and it allows defenders to get underneath his armpit:
(Nebraska: Q2, 00:29, 2nd & 7 Mich St: Q2, 13:50 2nd & 9)
Will be 24 years old as a rookie
Link - ( New Window )
Now that I’m all excited watch Seattle pull the trigger.
Totally agree. And it would be even more painful for me if he was the pick at 25 considering I think he's the 3rd best C in the class.
Let’s face it: center is the most important position on the o line after left tackle.
If this guy is legit and the coaches like him than I am all for it.
We won't beat Philly or Dallas until we win in the trenches.
Jack Campbell is another player that would be a great pick in the first.
Google it and watch the video.
If the Giants firmly believe Schmitz can step in as a plus starter from day one, and he’s the clear BPA on their board, he might be a reasonable pick at 25. But if there’s a CB, WR, or EDGE with a similar grade, the opportunity cost of picking a 24-year-old center seems high - especially if that center wasn’t a standout prospect before he got to Mobile.
Please stop with the other “priority” positions. This is a priority for DJ’s health and the overall health of the OL..
If we can find another Travis Frederick and it’s the first round, so be it..We are hurting badly there
If the Giants firmly believe Schmitz can step in as a plus starter from day one, and he’s the clear BPA on their board, he might be a reasonable pick at 25. But if there’s a CB, WR, or EDGE with a similar grade, the opportunity cost of picking a 24-year-old center seems high - especially if that center wasn’t a standout prospect before he got to Mobile.
Why would age mean anything? Legitimately you only get 4 to 5 years from a player, so he'd be 28-29 y/o at the end of the 1st contract. Even if you sign an extension with them they'd be in the early 30s at the end of that contract. OLine last longer than most players.
And if he anchors the middle of the line for 10+ years does it really fucking matter when or even what round he’s picked? I hope he is picked not only because I want him but also to just piss off you keyboard gm’s
Quote:
of pick 25. That would be a strictly need pick that would us missing out on better players.
And if he anchors the middle of the line for 10+ years does it really fucking matter when or even what round he’s picked? I hope he is picked not only because I want him but also to just piss off you keyboard gm’s
And almost forgot, you can do the work but centers that get picked in round one tend to turn out pretty damned good
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
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In comment 16073073 ElitoCanton said:
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of pick 25. That would be a strictly need pick that would us missing out on better players.
And if he anchors the middle of the line for 10+ years does it really fucking matter when or even what round he’s picked? I hope he is picked not only because I want him but also to just piss off you keyboard gm’s
And almost forgot, you can do the work but centers that get picked in round one tend to turn out pretty damned good
Yup, many do, iirc
The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
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The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
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In comment 16073286 CornerStone246+17 said:
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The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
Curious, did Bredeson play any C in college or anywhere else?
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In comment 16073314 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16073286 CornerStone246+17 said:
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The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
Curious, did Bredeson play any C in college or anywhere else?
They gave him some reps at Senior Bowl
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In comment 16073336 CornerStone246+17 said:
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In comment 16073314 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16073286 CornerStone246+17 said:
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The rookie OL often does not do that well year 1. They may flash but also make a lot of mistakes. We also have McKethan (round 5?) coming back. There are a lot of internal options. Unless the OL is super high graded and clear BPA I don't see one before round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 likely being the premium impact positions of greatest need CB/WR with the darkhorse a big bodied pass rushing Edge to complement the lighter/smaller Oju/Thibs.
Now the gap in the analysis could be that they don't like their in house OC options and still let Gates and Feliciano go with little resistance because they feel strongly they can get a high quality OC in round 2. But my guess is even if that is the case there are so many centers that they probably think they can get a good one at 89 if need be.
Giants and many other teams generally go after players where need meets value especially early in the draft. Value generally equals grade x positional impact. Positional impact can vary a bit depending on system but usually its somewhere in the vicinity of positions that impact the passing game the most. Some teams place a bit more importance on IOL but mostly the LT followed by the RT are the top 2 for teams.
With all that said, Giants have not taken an IOL or ILB in 30 years plus in round 1. I just don't think that changes this year short of maybe a guy they think is a future HOF player at the position.
When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.
“When you put that all together need and positional impact at WR and M2M CB certainly seem higher than the IOL right now.”
Well, that won’t do much good if our QB, as mobile as he is, keeps getting his head bashed in up the middle..
I certainly understand the frustration. Last year Giants spent a 1,3 and 5 to adress the OL. That is a ton of draft capital for one position. A few years back we did the same with Thomas,Peart and Lemieux. They have attacked the position but have missed a lot on players too.
My only thing on OC is what if they really like Bredeson there though? Bredeson has been low key impressive anywhere we have played him. He is certainly not probowl material but he has shown he can be an adequate lineman.
They have gotten a very good look at him at this point and probably at minumum think he is an upgrade to Feliciano and Gates. Otherwise I don't think they so easily let both those guys go.
Curious, did Bredeson play any C in college or anywhere else?
They gave him some reps at Senior Bowl
He is a lineman projects well to the position. And it certainly seems like Daboll/JS are thinking the same way. He played OC in games already and pretty sure took multiple snaps there in pre-season as well.
I still think posters here, even after 10 years of OL futility, underrate how important C is. You win in football from the inside out. Having an above average-elite center would help this offense tremendously. If JMS provides that he should seriously be in play.
Ultimately you can find guys later, and contrarily you can pick guys early (Flowers, Richburg, Pugh etc) who don't live up to expectations.
Excited to see what the Giants do.
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
Right or wrong, Giants seem to agree with you as they haven't taken any sort of IOL in round 1 in like forever.
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
The counterpoint if we are just focusing on draft options is this draft is very deep at Center and many teams have had success finding OC's in round 3 or even 4.
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DJ is going to continue to be under siege. How wonderful it would be for DJ, with his arm, actually be able to step up and throw..
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
The counterpoint if we are just focusing on draft options is this draft is very deep at Center and many teams have had success finding OC's in round 3 or even 4.
I am rooting for you to be right
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In comment 16073538 Big Blue '56 said:
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DJ is going to continue to be under siege. How wonderful it would be for DJ, with his arm, actually be able to step up and throw..
Sure you can get a good C in the lesser rounds, but if their is a Stud C available in the first, I hope JS pulls the trigger. WRs who get separation won’t do us much good with DJ on his back or extremely hurried. He can only run/escape so much..
So yes, I disagree with the majority on here about a C in round one and I’m almost certain Schoen won’t take one in Rd. 1..
The counterpoint if we are just focusing on draft options is this draft is very deep at Center and many teams have had success finding OC's in round 3 or even 4.
I am rooting for you to be right
They need a better hit percentage on OL in general. They nailed Thomas at 4 but missed on so so many others. Unfortunately it's too early to fully know on Neal and Ezeudu yet as these are Schoen's draft picks you know they will be given at minimum this year to succeed. Bredeson is a lower ceiling but the floor is higher because he has played adequately and they probably like what they've seen from him at OC. Truthfully if he is their #1 guy right now for OC , I'm more concerned with the less proven though higher potential guys in Neal and Ezeudu.
1)The guy is there at 25. Giants boards have him ranked ~ 50th overall in value, meaning as a 2nd rd pick he would be a slam dunk. As a 1st the value, according to the boards and conventional wisdom, isn't there.
2) The Giants ascertain that, were they to pick him, him would be a long term solution and starter at center. They have no doubts about this. None.
3) after looking at what else is available ( including picks that provide more "value" as per ranking and position)
the Giants determine that no other choice they could make, at this time, would either offer more immediate improvement , or long term stability.
Do you make the pick?
Myself, I would. If the rest of the staff feels the same way, you do it, and at that point what it is really is a PR problem more than anything else as you scramble to justify it without getting lynched in the media.
If the Giants firmly believe Schmitz can step in as a plus starter from day one, and he’s the clear BPA on their board, he might be a reasonable pick at 25. But if there’s a CB, WR, or EDGE with a similar grade, the opportunity cost of picking a 24-year-old center seems high - especially if that center wasn’t a standout prospect before he got to Mobile.
Well said. Will be pushing 30 when he signs his first FA contract. All things being near-equal the value is so much higher at those other spots. And when you consider Schoen's comments on positional value (prior to last year's draft) and combine that with their actions in FA so far, especially letting Gates and Feliciano walk, and its very obvious that WR and CB are higher on his priority list.