What do Hunter Renfro, Allen Robinson, Randall Cobb, Nelson Agholor, DJ Chark Jr, Marquise Goodwin, Mecole Hardman, Jarvis Landry and Van Jefferson have in common?
They all had less receptions than Darrius Slayton.
And what do Jamar Chase, Travis Kelse, Stephon Diggs, Saquon Barkley, Amari Cooper, Jalyn Waddle, Brandon Cooks, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins and Austin Eckler all have in common?
They all dropped more or equal number of passes as Darrius Slayton. Let's stop defining Slayton by his drops. It's completely unfair.
Jamar had dolled 7.5% of his targets and Slayton close to 10%.
How many targets?'
I too, can cherry pick my stats to support my POV.
It’s not even the drops or hands as much as he’s just not that kind of wr that high points and plucks the ball like some of the greats. That said he’s still a viable player for nyg.
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And what do Jamar Chase, Travis Kelse, Stephon Diggs, Saquon Barkley, Amari Cooper, Jalyn Waddle, Brandon Cooks, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins and Austin Eckler all have in common?
How many targets?'
I too, can cherry pick my stats to support my POV.
Was going to make the same post. Those guys had way more targets than Slayton.
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And what do Jamar Chase, Travis Kelse, Stephon Diggs, Saquon Barkley, Amari Cooper, Jalyn Waddle, Brandon Cooks, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins and Austin Eckler all have in common?
How many targets?'
I too, can cherry pick my stats to support my POV.
LOL - I was thinking the same thing. Dropping 3 passes out of 6 total passes is not the same as dropping 4 passes out of 1,000 targets.
I don't think stats are your game.
Hunter Renfrow played a little more than half the snaps that Slayton did last year.
I mean, you got guys that spent a lot of the year hurt and/or sucks or both and it's supposed to be an achievement that Slayton had more production than them?
Agholor sucks, btw. And it's not noteworthy or an accomplishment to have more yards or catches than any of those guys, but at least pick players that played roughly close to the same playing time.
2. Daboll/Kafka/Schoen are prioritizing speed (see the Parris Campbell signing)
3. Slayton is in his prime, does not have obvious health issues and knows the offense.
Let’s get over it. We need(ed) WRs and he was their choice at that contract.
That's the number of targets respectively for Jamarr Chase, Amari Cooper and Slayton. That's why drop% is more telling and Slayton had one of the worst (10%) of any WR with 60+ targets.
I'm rooting for him, but let's not pretend that number of targets doesn't matter when it comes to drops.
And as far as receptions, if you put some other teams #2 or #3 WR on the '22 Giants, there's a very good chance they would be our #1 and therefore have more targets and receptions than they had on their current team.
Your argument should be that Slayton's play compares favorably to other receivers who were acquired with similar resources (5th round pick and his most recent signing). It does.
Nah, wouldn't be fair for us. Maybe they should throw in a first rounder too.
Just wanted to clear that up..:)
In his rookie year, his drop% was a very good 2.4% (2 drops on 84 targets). Then it rose to 6.3% his 2nd yr and has been very bad at around 10% the last 2 yrs.
What happened to his hands? Is it a concentration thing? Can he get back to near his rookie yr drop%?
Hopefully the coaching staff can help him, like TC helped Tiki with fumbles.
+1
He seems like a guy who knows what he needs to improve and willing to put in the work. The Giants seem to think so. We shall see.
If drops falls to average, which means 3-4 balls over a season, he's a fine chess piece.
Ok let's take it easy.
I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.
OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.
You'll get there.
Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
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about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.
Ok let's take it easy.
I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.
OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.
You'll get there.
Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
Jim’s on a roll today..😂
Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
I agree allstar. I initially started to respond in a pretty snarky way, but reconsidered and removed the slight insult. I try to remember the golden rule even online (which it seems a lot of people are unfamiliar with these days).
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In comment 16073311 drake88 said:
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about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.
Ok let's take it easy.
I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.
OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.
You'll get there.
Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
Jim’s on a roll today..😂
I was being sincere! I genuinely think the OP might be in like, middle school maybe? Or could even be a high schooler...either way, if OP is not a kid, there's still nothing wrong with a little more civility!
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Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
I agree allstar. I initially started to respond in a pretty snarky way, but reconsidered and removed the slight insult. I try to remember the golden rule even online (which it seems a lot of people are unfamiliar with these days).
The Golden Rule...something we should all live by. That anonymity of online written communication...it really does seem to leave out the deference we typically give in face-to-face communication. I wonder if people just relish not having to conform to societal niceties online. Perhaps, we really like to just let loose all the things we wish sometimes we could say out in the world but it would be rude, or perhaps dangerous to do so.
Heck, I've enjoyed a good flame war in my day, but in the end, I don't feel great about it.
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In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16073311 drake88 said:
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about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.
Ok let's take it easy.
I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.
OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.
You'll get there.
Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
Jim’s on a roll today..😂
I was being sincere! I genuinely think the OP might be in like, middle school maybe? Or could even be a high schooler...either way, if OP is not a kid, there's still nothing wrong with a little more civility!
Understood. Just playing, buddy.
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In comment 16073330 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16073311 drake88 said:
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about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.
Ok let's take it easy.
I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.
OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.
You'll get there.
Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
Jim’s on a roll today..😂
I was being sincere! I genuinely think the OP might be in like, middle school maybe? Or could even be a high schooler...either way, if OP is not a kid, there's still nothing wrong with a little more civility!
Understood. Just playing, buddy.
All good!
i remember plenty being said about obj during/after the gb wild card game.
The Giants' top playmaker had nine drops on the first 381 targets of his career. He had six on his final 82 targets this past season. That is a drop every 14 passes thrown in his direction compared to one every 42 over the first two and a half years of his career, leaving one to wonder what contributed to this sudden curious case of drops.
slayton dropped 1 ball for every 10 thrown his way this year and last, including 2 on 8 targets vs minnesota, so if anything maybe everyone was a little hard on beckham.
A look at Odell Beckham Jr.'s curious case of drops - ( New Window )
Yes, and we need to stop defining the guy by his 5 bad plays. I simply don't understand it.
Go F0ck yourself
This is also a cherry picked stat. The more a guy plays and is involved in plays, usually the better they get, Running backs need reps and so do receivers. Do you believe if he had 90 receptions had have more than double the drops? I 100% don't...
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Slayton’s drop % was 9.9. That’s the 11th worst in the league. So, if you want fair, this is what’s fair.
This is also a cherry picked stat. The more a guy plays and is involved in plays, usually the better they get, Running backs need reps and so do receivers. Do you believe if he had 90 receptions had have more than double the drops? I 100% don't...
It's a relevant stat. I think Slayton is who he has shown himself to be during his time in the NFL. Not great hands/ball skills for the position, average receiver/route runner, with great speed. It's been 4 years, the time for projection has passed.
Yes, we do. We saw what Daboll did with his talent the way he raised Josh Allen’s game (not comparing QBs with each other)..DJ is a good QB who hopefully ascends further with better toys..
Slayton is who he is..
What a stupid fucking post
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The WRs aren't great but they have been unnecessarily slagged here to boost up Daniel Jones.
What a stupid fucking post
What awful language by a grown man. But it's true. You need the WRs to be garbage in order to justify Jones' pedestrian numbers. You're angry because it's true.
Is that someone you brave Jones boosters had banned for hurting your feelings?
I think if you've seen my posts on DJ for the last 6 months or more, you'd know my answer to that question, which absolutely would be consistent.
That said, if there is a case to be made for a late bloomer, it would be at the QB position, which is a for more mentally demanding position to learn. I don't think you can fairly say the learning curve for NFL QB and NFL WR is at all even close to the same.
Hmmm, there are some of us who are down on both receivers and DJ.
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My guess is Debaser. lol
Is that someone you brave Jones boosters had banned for hurting your feelings?
lol
He's a low end 2, mid range 3.
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In comment 16073463 BeggarsBanquet said:
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The WRs aren't great but they have been unnecessarily slagged here to boost up Daniel Jones.
What a stupid fucking post
What awful language by a grown man. But it's true. You need the WRs to be garbage in order to justify Jones' pedestrian numbers. You're angry because it's true.
This grown man still has eyes that work. My eyes saw a very good effort from Hodgins and really no one else to consistently help DJ aside from Barkley and Bellinger pre-eye injury. My eyes saw WRs they were going to rely on more go down with season-ending injuries.
My eyes sawa WR who actually got separation at times, drop crucial passesat crucial times. My eyes saw no AJ Brown/Devante Smith, Tee Higgins/Chase, Kelce and other game-changing playmakers.
My eyes saw terrible C play by and Large and awful ORT production all year.
Hopefully Waller and what we can get via the draft help DJ ascend even further
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Slayton’s drop % was 9.9. That’s the 11th worst in the league. So, if you want fair, this is what’s fair.
This is also a cherry picked stat. The more a guy plays and is involved in plays, usually the better they get, Running backs need reps and so do receivers. Do you believe if he had 90 receptions had have more than double the drops? I 100% don't...
Glad to know what you think. Doesn't change his drop rate one little bit nor does it matter what he would have done otherwise. This is what he did do.
His anaologies weren't meant to be taken literally, they served the greater point...that Darius Slayton is a nice piece and a worthwhile signing.
I don't think, at any level, he's saying that this guy is the equal of Chase or Rice.
Fronm my personal viewpoint, I remember the dramatic catch and scintillating run up the left sideline for an important td last year. I think he's still growing and we haven't sseen his best
drake88 : 9:37 am : link : reply
about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.
A thoughtful contradiction to points made...is beyond schmucks like this Just the broad denigration not surprisingly laced with obscenities. And this guy is so dumb that he doesn't reqalize he's the chumb being made to look bad and not the OP....who incidently, has almost nothing to do with Drake's attention getting post that contributes nothing but an outlet for his frustrations
I mention this because that situation is not exclusive to the signal caller. It impacts all skill positions. We didn't throw a whole lot for the first half of the season. and the two seasons prior were basically black holes re: offensive production. But Like DJ, we did see a different WR in Slayton in his rookie year. He Also suffered from play calling devoid of creativity. He hasn't had anyone to draw coverage away from him. DJ hasn't had consistent, quality protection to give him the time to make the kinds of downfield throws that Slayton is built for. Like DJ, we saw progress last season and he made some very exciting plays for us. He earned his spot on the team and there is an expectation by all involved that he will take another step forward this season with defenses having to worry about Slayton, Campbell, Waller, Jeff Smith (Not a household name but the guy has speed and he's actually really good, despite not getting a ton of opportunities), Saquon and DJ. There are, suddenly, a lot of pieces that DCs need to pay attention to. Slayton may actually be the last guy they are worried about. That will be a mistake, but there really isn't a choice. Let's reserve judgement for AFTER we see what he's done with the opportunity. He's got the tools. I saw some posts stating that his body control is poor. This is false. I've seen him make adjustments and make moves after the catch that were fun to watch. The opportunities have just not been plentiful. You can look at drop percentage. It's a fair stat. But you have to also consider that just because that number is what it is because he had less targets does not mean that the percentage would be equal or higher with more receptions. Who knows? If he had 20-25 more targets, he might not have 1 more drop. He might have 7 more. That's why you have to watch a player play and understand what you're seeing from them and what the supporting cast around them contributes to what you see. I, for one, am in the camp that thinks Slayton is a gem that will continue to grow and produce in this offense. He might disappear on the depth chart if we continue to improve which will be sad, but that's the way things go in the NFL. But when he gets to start all 17 games for a team with a competent offense run by a good coordinator, He's capable of 1k+ yrd seasons with 8+ TDs and maybe an 8% - 8.5% drop rate based on what I've seen with my eyes.
This conversation is all speculation (including my take). Nobody here knows. The discussion is fun, though. I'm team Slayton all the way. As it's been said numerous times, he's a glue guy. His attitude is refreshing. It's the kind of thing that is infectious in the locker room. His love and support for his QB, his personal accountability, his work ethic, his positive attitude... those are things you can't train in someone. That can't be learned. It CAN be modeled and over time it can be adopted by others but a coach can't force a selfish player to be unselfish. That intangible aspect of his character in itself is enough to warrant his current contract. I'm hoping he gives Schoen a reason to extend him before 2025. If I had a son, I would hope he'd be like this kid. This team is friggin amazing as far as character is concerned.
Sorry for the novel. Just had to get all that out. If you read all of that, thank you. Even if you don't agree with me, thanks for reading.
Sorry for the novel. Just had to get all that out. If you read all of that, thank you. Even if you don't agree with me, thanks for reading.
Thanks for the novel. Completely agree with everything you said. Excellent insight with a positive tone. And very well written, by the way. You're not Dave Baldacci by any chance, are you?
Slayton is a replacement-level receiver, bottom line. You can get receivers like him in every single draft. You can get guys like him in free agency for less.
Consider Mack Hollins, who got $910K GTD. Mack Hollins is not the speed demon that Slayton is, but his numbers are very similar, and a major part of his game is as a deep threat. He doesn't do it by being the fastest guy on the field, but he does it effectively. What Hollins lacks in speed he makes up for in size and ball skills. And I'm not saying that the Giants should have signed Hollins over Slayton, not at all. What I'm saying is the Giants over-valued Slayton's market. It's at least somewhat likely they could've ran the clock all the way to week 1 before signing him, or even week 2 for a non-GTD deal.
If someone else signs him in the interim, they likely would've done so at less money, and it's a so-what, because he doesn't give you anything a 4th, 5th, perhaps even 6th or 7th round receiver wouldn't give you, perhaps even Collin Johnson would take his role and you wouldn't miss a beat.
And I can hear it now...Jim, it's only $5-$6M. Well, DeMarcus Walker signed for $7M. Love could've been retained, and he's a glue guy. That money is not insignificant. It's not a franchise crushing decision, but it's an overpay and an unnecessary one, as opposed to DJ, who you could argue more that it was a necessary overpay. And before you argue with me about Love, that's a guy who was a team captain and leading tackler on this team. He made more of a contribution to the Giants than Slayton did.
Slayton is a #4 receiver on a good team. You don't want to pay those guys any more than minimum-type of deals. Obviously, Schoen/Dabes/Kafka feel he has a greater role, but the justification is flimsy based on 4 years of watching him. He will make a few plays and miss others. Again, replacement-level.
I know I'm going to hear about numbers also. Again, those numbers are pedestrian that a lot of receivers would've gotten with the same play time that Slayton had.
He is overrated on BBI, I don't think a single team in the NFL would pay him more than $3M GTD at the most, particularly with a deep receiver draft class.
Could it all work out? Sure.
I'm a fan of Schoen and Daboll, even a raving fan. But this move was a massive head-scratcher for me, this was one that I just can't be convinced was a smart allocation. I would have sooner seen them pay a million more than the $3.5M that Braxton Berrios got for him.
I wonder if you could've given the same contract to DJ Chark... and got him, he remains unsigned and it will be interesting to see what he finally gets, and he's a much better player.
All that said, I hope Slayton proves this post to be idiotic, but based on 4 years of watching him play, I don't see that happening.
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about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.
Ok let's take it easy.
I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.
OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.
You'll get there.
Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
Fair enough. I apologize for being vulgar. Data science is my field so when someone posted stats that weren't normalized for targets I jumped on it.
Appreciate it. Honestly, I look at the deals that Garrett Bradbury got, for example, substantially the same money. You're looking at back-up level centers like J.C. Hassenauer.
Now Schoen's task is to open up some cap room with extensions to some guys, perhaps Leo, Adoree and/or a deal with Saquon, and likely they can't even sign A'Shawn Robinson who will probably get similar money to Slayton. Who is more important to next year's success? Robinson, a good starting center, or Slayton?
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....
Sorry for the novel. Just had to get all that out. If you read all of that, thank you. Even if you don't agree with me, thanks for reading.
Thanks for the novel. Completely agree with everything you said. Excellent insight with a positive tone. And very well written, by the way. You're not Dave Baldacci by any chance, are you?
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Learn the game of football and trust your eyes.
Not sure where you stand on Slayton, but I can agree with you 100% that your eyes will tell you more than a stat sheet. Unless you're blind... in which case I apologize and you should definitely consult the stat sheets.
Slayton is an ok player. He's a bit limited on routes, has inconsistent hands, is prone to mental mistakes, and will disappear for long stretches. He has some chemistry with Jones and the Giants were shopping hungry. He's useful but there are alot of warts, and you keep trying to upgrade the unit including his roster spot.
Slayton is a replacement-level receiver, bottom line. You can get receivers like him in every single draft. You can get guys like him in free agency for less.
Consider Mack Hollins, who got $910K GTD. Mack Hollins is not the speed demon that Slayton is, but his numbers are very similar, and a major part of his game is as a deep threat. He doesn't do it by being the fastest guy on the field, but he does it effectively. What Hollins lacks in speed he makes up for in size and ball skills. And I'm not saying that the Giants should have signed Hollins over Slayton, not at all. What I'm saying is the Giants over-valued Slayton's market. It's at least somewhat likely they could've ran the clock all the way to week 1 before signing him, or even week 2 for a non-GTD deal.
If someone else signs him in the interim, they likely would've done so at less money, and it's a so-what, because he doesn't give you anything a 4th, 5th, perhaps even 6th or 7th round receiver wouldn't give you, perhaps even Collin Johnson would take his role and you wouldn't miss a beat.
And I can hear it now...Jim, it's only $5-$6M. Well, DeMarcus Walker signed for $7M. Love could've been retained, and he's a glue guy. That money is not insignificant. It's not a franchise crushing decision, but it's an overpay and an unnecessary one, as opposed to DJ, who you could argue more that it was a necessary overpay. And before you argue with me about Love, that's a guy who was a team captain and leading tackler on this team. He made more of a contribution to the Giants than Slayton did.
Slayton is a #4 receiver on a good team. You don't want to pay those guys any more than minimum-type of deals. Obviously, Schoen/Dabes/Kafka feel he has a greater role, but the justification is flimsy based on 4 years of watching him. He will make a few plays and miss others. Again, replacement-level.
I know I'm going to hear about numbers also. Again, those numbers are pedestrian that a lot of receivers would've gotten with the same play time that Slayton had.
He is overrated on BBI, I don't think a single team in the NFL would pay him more than $3M GTD at the most, particularly with a deep receiver draft class.
Could it all work out? Sure.
I'm a fan of Schoen and Daboll, even a raving fan. But this move was a massive head-scratcher for me, this was one that I just can't be convinced was a smart allocation. I would have sooner seen them pay a million more than the $3.5M that Braxton Berrios got for him.
I wonder if you could've given the same contract to DJ Chark... and got him, he remains unsigned and it will be interesting to see what he finally gets, and he's a much better player.
All that said, I hope Slayton proves this post to be idiotic, but based on 4 years of watching him play, I don't see that happening.
His anaologies weren't meant to be taken literally, they served the greater point...that Darius Slayton is a nice piece and a worthwhile signing.
I don't think, at any level, he's saying that this guy is the equal of Chase or Rice.
Fronm my personal viewpoint, I remember the dramatic catch and scintillating run up the left sideline for an important td last year. I think he's still growing and we haven't sseen his best
This. As I (the OP as you say) pointed out at the end of my post, for some reason, Slayton is judged on his drops and his drops only. You never hear (on this $shit board) anything good about the guy, despite being a 100% overachiever, 5th round draft pick. Without him last year, I doubt we make the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game.
So to you that have to be assholes to everyone., Go Phuck yourselves. To the rest... go G-Men!
LOL, what?!?!? "core strength?" Unreal.
Steve Kerr played 14 seasons in the NBA and had FIVE NBA championships as a player and FOUR more as a head coach. I pray that's Slayton's future.
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the nastiness of the board. Or maybe I do. The OP must have spent time on research and then composed a thoughtful peice.
His anaologies weren't meant to be taken literally, they served the greater point...that Darius Slayton is a nice piece and a worthwhile signing.
I don't think, at any level, he's saying that this guy is the equal of Chase or Rice.
Fronm my personal viewpoint, I remember the dramatic catch and scintillating run up the left sideline for an important td last year. I think he's still growing and we haven't sseen his best
This. As I (the OP as you say) pointed out at the end of my post, for some reason, Slayton is judged on his drops and his drops only. You never hear (on this $shit board) anything good about the guy, despite being a 100% overachiever, 5th round draft pick. Without him last year, I doubt we make the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game.
So to you that have to be assholes to everyone., Go Phuck yourselves. To the rest... go G-Men!
Advice from a long-time BBI'er who used to get into the toxic back and forth...Try to stay above the fray. It's not worth it going to the mud-slinging level. We can respectfully disagree (and I mostly disagree on your assessment), and result in a good discussion with opposing viewpoints. That's when the board is at it's best. If others want to be a jerk...just let them...plus you got an apology from drake88.
I think what you said about Slayton being an overachiever for a 5th round pick is valid. But that's because most 5th round picks don't stick in the NFL. I also agree with you he does have good character, I like him, too on that personal aspect. I also just believe that stuff is great, but you get paid for your performance at the end of the day. Ideally you want character guys who perform at a high level. You can have a whole team of high character guys that are mediocre players, but you're going to end up with a mediocre team. I believe a lot of players can produce what Slayton has given his play time. But I appreciate your perspective and I hope you and Schoen are right about yet to be realized potential. I'd love to see that. Again, I don't feel that signing him was a mistake, I just think for the money it could've been much better allocated to provide a bigger bang for the cap hit in terms of improving this team. I'd rather have one Ethan Pocic than all of the free agent signees at receiver combined.
But I appreciate your passion for the player and optimism for him.
But let's be serious. Chase is a probowler. Slayton is a nice depth receiver, and that is what he is getting paid as.
Other than his rookie year, Slayton simply hasn't been a very productive receiver despite playing on a team that desperately needs a good wide receiver.
He runs fast. He adjusts well to the football. But aside from the drops, he tends to disappear for long stretches. In other words, he has issues getting open against better defensive backs. He had only TWO touchdowns last year. This was an issue for him the previous two years as well.
Good guy. Runs fast. But he has to get open and make plays.
I mention this because that situation is not exclusive to the signal caller. It impacts all skill positions. We didn't throw a whole lot for the first half of the season. and the two seasons prior were basically black holes re: offensive production. But Like DJ, we did see a different WR in Slayton in his rookie year. He Also suffered from play calling devoid of creativity. He hasn't had anyone to draw coverage away from him. DJ hasn't had consistent, quality protection to give him the time to make the kinds of downfield throws that Slayton is built for. Like DJ, we saw progress last season and he made some very exciting plays for us. He earned his spot on the team and there is an expectation by all involved that he will take another step forward this season with defenses having to worry about Slayton, Campbell, Waller, Jeff Smith (Not a household name but the guy has speed and he's actually really good, despite not getting a ton of opportunities), Saquon and DJ. There are, suddenly, a lot of pieces that DCs need to pay attention to. Slayton may actually be the last guy they are worried about. That will be a mistake, but there really isn't a choice. Let's reserve judgement for AFTER we see what he's done with the opportunity. He's got the tools. I saw some posts stating that his body control is poor. This is false. I've seen him make adjustments and make moves after the catch that were fun to watch. The opportunities have just not been plentiful. You can look at drop percentage. It's a fair stat. But you have to also consider that just because that number is what it is because he had less targets does not mean that the percentage would be equal or higher with more receptions. Who knows? If he had 20-25 more targets, he might not have 1 more drop. He might have 7 more. That's why you have to watch a player play and understand what you're seeing from them and what the supporting cast around them contributes to what you see. I, for one, am in the camp that thinks Slayton is a gem that will continue to grow and produce in this offense. He might disappear on the depth chart if we continue to improve which will be sad, but that's the way things go in the NFL. But when he gets to start all 17 games for a team with a competent offense run by a good coordinator, He's capable of 1k+ yrd seasons with 8+ TDs and maybe an 8% - 8.5% drop rate based on what I've seen with my eyes.
This conversation is all speculation (including my take). Nobody here knows. The discussion is fun, though. I'm team Slayton all the way. As it's been said numerous times, he's a glue guy. His attitude is refreshing. It's the kind of thing that is infectious in the locker room. His love and support for his QB, his personal accountability, his work ethic, his positive attitude... those are things you can't train in someone. That can't be learned. It CAN be modeled and over time it can be adopted by others but a coach can't force a selfish player to be unselfish. That intangible aspect of his character in itself is enough to warrant his current contract. I'm hoping he gives Schoen a reason to extend him before 2025. If I had a son, I would hope he'd be like this kid. This team is friggin amazing as far as character is concerned.
Sorry for the novel. Just had to get all that out. If you read all of that, thank you. Even if you don't agree with me, thanks for reading.
+1 A long but very good read.
Sorry for the novel. Just had to get all that out. If you read all of that, thank you. Even if you don't agree with me, thanks for reading.
Oh yeah
Here's what I think of your argument
I’m not arguing for a second that Slayton is a great player. But he’s an exciting one and stats are being selectively used to criticize him here.
Drop % is a subsidiary stat that’s being overplayed. What passing attacks generate is yardage and points. Slayton generated very good yardage. I’m glad he’s on the team and don’t think we overpaid.
Extreme example of course but that stat is limited. It also depends on judgement. It’s not an objective measure like a completed pass or a point. I bring that up because there was a big controversy on BBI mid season about a Slayton “drop” that I think was clearly a mistake by Jones. If that pass is counted as a Slayton drop, I like the metric even less.
I mention this because that situation is not exclusive to the signal caller. It impacts all skill positions. We didn't throw a whole lot for the first half of the season. and the two seasons prior were basically black holes re: offensive production. But Like DJ, we did see a different WR in Slayton in his rookie year. He Also suffered from play calling devoid of creativity. He hasn't had anyone to draw coverage away from him. DJ hasn't had consistent, quality protection to give him the time to make the kinds of downfield throws that Slayton is built for. Like DJ, we saw progress last season and he made some very exciting plays for us. He earned his spot on the team and there is an expectation by all involved that he will take another step forward this season with defenses having to worry about Slayton, Campbell, Waller, Jeff Smith (Not a household name but the guy has speed and he's actually really good, despite not getting a ton of opportunities), Saquon and DJ. There are, suddenly, a lot of pieces that DCs need to pay attention to. Slayton may actually be the last guy they are worried about. That will be a mistake, but there really isn't a choice. Let's reserve judgement for AFTER we see what he's done with the opportunity. He's got the tools. I saw some posts stating that his body control is poor. This is false. I've seen him make adjustments and make moves after the catch that were fun to watch. The opportunities have just not been plentiful. You can look at drop percentage. It's a fair stat. But you have to also consider that just because that number is what it is because he had less targets does not mean that the percentage would be equal or higher with more receptions. Who knows? If he had 20-25 more targets, he might not have 1 more drop. He might have 7 more. That's why you have to watch a player play and understand what you're seeing from them and what the supporting cast around them contributes to what you see. I, for one, am in the camp that thinks Slayton is a gem that will continue to grow and produce in this offense. He might disappear on the depth chart if we continue to improve which will be sad, but that's the way things go in the NFL. But when he gets to start all 17 games for a team with a competent offense run by a good coordinator, He's capable of 1k+ yrd seasons with 8+ TDs and maybe an 8% - 8.5% drop rate based on what I've seen with my eyes.
This conversation is all speculation (including my take). Nobody here knows. The discussion is fun, though. I'm team Slayton all the way. As it's been said numerous times, he's a glue guy. His attitude is refreshing. It's the kind of thing that is infectious in the locker room. His love and support for his QB, his personal accountability, his work ethic, his positive attitude... those are things you can't train in someone. That can't be learned. It CAN be modeled and over time it can be adopted by others but a coach can't force a selfish player to be unselfish. That intangible aspect of his character in itself is enough to warrant his current contract. I'm hoping he gives Schoen a reason to extend him before 2025. If I had a son, I would hope he'd be like this kid. This team is friggin amazing as far as character is concerned.
Sorry for the novel. Just had to get all that out. If you read all of that, thank you. Even if you don't agree with me, thanks for reading.
Other than his rookie year, Slayton simply hasn't been a very productive receiver despite playing on a team that desperately needs a good wide receiver.
He runs fast. He adjusts well to the football. But aside from the drops, he tends to disappear for long stretches. In other words, he has issues getting open against better defensive backs. He had only TWO touchdowns last year. This was an issue for him the previous two years as well.
Good guy. Runs fast. But he has to get open and make plays.
Very nice sortable recieving stats 2022 - ( New Window )
Quote:
the nastiness of the board. Or maybe I do. The OP must have spent time on research and then composed a thoughtful peice.
His anaologies weren't meant to be taken literally, they served the greater point...that Darius Slayton is a nice piece and a worthwhile signing.
I don't think, at any level, he's saying that this guy is the equal of Chase or Rice.
Fronm my personal viewpoint, I remember the dramatic catch and scintillating run up the left sideline for an important td last year. I think he's still growing and we haven't sseen his best
This. As I (the OP as you say) pointed out at the end of my post, for some reason, Slayton is judged on his drops and his drops only. You never hear (on this $shit board) anything good about the guy, despite being a 100% overachiever, 5th round draft pick. Without him last year, I doubt we make the playoffs, let alone win a playoff game.
So to you that have to be assholes to everyone., Go Phuck yourselves. To the rest... go G-Men!
You've been here six months. If this board is such shit, how about you hit the fucking bricks?