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Dispelling the myth....

Wildcardgiants : 3/23/2023 9:18 am
What do Hunter Renfro, Allen Robinson, Randall Cobb, Nelson Agholor, DJ Chark Jr, Marquise Goodwin, Mecole Hardman, Jarvis Landry and Van Jefferson have in common?

They all had less receptions than Darrius Slayton.

And what do Jamar Chase, Travis Kelse, Stephon Diggs, Saquon Barkley, Amari Cooper, Jalyn Waddle, Brandon Cooks, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins and Austin Eckler all have in common?

They all dropped more or equal number of passes as Darrius Slayton. Let's stop defining Slayton by his drops. It's completely unfair.
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Look…  
BleedingBlue2 : 3/23/2023 9:24 am : link
I agree, but their targets or also disproportionate.

Jamar had dolled 7.5% of his targets and Slayton close to 10%.
Slayton's career catch percentage is 55%. League avg is about 63  
Heisenberg : 3/23/2023 9:24 am : link
Quote:
And what do Jamar Chase, Travis Kelse, Stephon Diggs, Saquon Barkley, Amari Cooper, Jalyn Waddle, Brandon Cooks, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins and Austin Eckler all have in common?


How many targets?'

I too, can cherry pick my stats to support my POV.
Dropped*  
BleedingBlue2 : 3/23/2023 9:24 am : link
Well hell  
Mattman : 3/23/2023 9:24 am : link
Using that logic I dropped less passes than all of them

I basically agree  
djm : 3/23/2023 9:24 am : link
He’s far from a perfect wr but he’s a legit pro caliber player who can help this team win. this thread will go over like a fart in church, but slayton has practically become underrated around here.

It’s not even the drops or hands as much as he’s just not that kind of wr that high points and plucks the ball like some of the greats. That said he’s still a viable player for nyg.
RE: Slayton's career catch percentage is 55%. League avg is about 63  
Jan in DC : 3/23/2023 9:25 am : link
In comment 16073292 Heisenberg said:
Quote:


Quote:


And what do Jamar Chase, Travis Kelse, Stephon Diggs, Saquon Barkley, Amari Cooper, Jalyn Waddle, Brandon Cooks, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins and Austin Eckler all have in common?



How many targets?'

I too, can cherry pick my stats to support my POV.


Was going to make the same post. Those guys had way more targets than Slayton.
Well this  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 9:26 am : link
Should be fun.
RE: Slayton's career catch percentage is 55%. League avg is about 63  
PatersonPlank : 3/23/2023 9:26 am : link
In comment 16073292 Heisenberg said:
Quote:


Quote:


And what do Jamar Chase, Travis Kelse, Stephon Diggs, Saquon Barkley, Amari Cooper, Jalyn Waddle, Brandon Cooks, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins and Austin Eckler all have in common?



How many targets?'

I too, can cherry pick my stats to support my POV.


LOL - I was thinking the same thing. Dropping 3 passes out of 6 total passes is not the same as dropping 4 passes out of 1,000 targets.
Maybe you should post the actual relevant stat. Drop%.  
BillT : 3/23/2023 9:28 am : link
Slayton’s drop % was 9.9. That’s the 11th worst in the league. So, if you want fair, this is what’s fair.
Say it with me..  
bLiTz 2k : 3/23/2023 9:28 am : link
"Drop.....percentage"

I don't think stats are your game.
I like Slayton, seems like a great guy  
Andy in Halifax : 3/23/2023 9:32 am : link
But how many different offenses would he have had as many catches? Most likely.. it was a matter of opportunity. Hopefully he proves me wrong.
It's not just the guys  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 9:34 am : link
In the Kelce (more than double the number of targets as Slayton) group that makes this post so... let's go with illogical, but the Renfrow group as well.

Hunter Renfrow played a little more than half the snaps that Slayton did last year.

I mean, you got guys that spent a lot of the year hurt and/or sucks or both and it's supposed to be an achievement that Slayton had more production than them?

Agholor sucks, btw. And it's not noteworthy or an accomplishment to have more yards or catches than any of those guys, but at least pick players that played roughly close to the same playing time.
The mystery of re-signing Slayton has been solved  
gersh : 3/23/2023 9:36 am : link
1. His contract is more reasonable than the initial numbers suggest
2. Daboll/Kafka/Schoen are prioritizing speed (see the Parris Campbell signing)
3. Slayton is in his prime, does not have obvious health issues and knows the offense.

Let’s get over it. We need(ed) WRs and he was their choice at that contract.

what's the difference between  
Dr. D : 3/23/2023 9:37 am : link
134, 132 and 71?

That's the number of targets respectively for Jamarr Chase, Amari Cooper and Slayton. That's why drop% is more telling and Slayton had one of the worst (10%) of any WR with 60+ targets.

I'm rooting for him, but let's not pretend that number of targets doesn't matter when it comes to drops.

And as far as receptions, if you put some other teams #2 or #3 WR on the '22 Giants, there's a very good chance they would be our #1 and therefore have more targets and receptions than they had on their current team.
Talk  
drake88 : 3/23/2023 9:37 am : link
about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.
You are making the wrong argument...  
Capt. Don : 3/23/2023 9:38 am : link
Your argument is that Slayton's play compares favorably to some of the elite receivers in the game. It doesnt.

Your argument should be that Slayton's play compares favorably to other receivers who were acquired with similar resources (5th round pick and his most recent signing). It does.
Yo!  
Anakim : 3/23/2023 9:38 am : link
You think we can trade Slayton for Chase?


Nah, wouldn't be fair for us. Maybe they should throw in a first rounder too.
We’re not!  
Big Blue '56 : 3/23/2023 9:41 am : link
We’re defining him for his KEY, sometimes game-changing, drops..

Just wanted to clear that up..:)
Slayton  
TheEvilLurker : 3/23/2023 9:42 am : link
Knows his stats.
Well, I guess my eyes totally deceived me!  
sb from NYT Forum : 3/23/2023 9:45 am : link
He is a total baller, and an absolute rock of reliability!
my question is  
Dr. D : 3/23/2023 9:48 am : link
what happened to Slayton after his rookie yr?

In his rookie year, his drop% was a very good 2.4% (2 drops on 84 targets). Then it rose to 6.3% his 2nd yr and has been very bad at around 10% the last 2 yrs.

What happened to his hands? Is it a concentration thing? Can he get back to near his rookie yr drop%?

Hopefully the coaching staff can help him, like TC helped Tiki with fumbles.
RE: Maybe you should post the actual relevant stat. Drop%.  
HBart : 3/23/2023 9:49 am : link
In comment 16073302 BillT said:
Quote:
Slayton’s drop % was 9.9. That’s the 11th worst in the league. So, if you want fair, this is what’s fair.

+1

He seems like a guy who knows what he needs to improve and willing to put in the work. The Giants seem to think so. We shall see.

If drops falls to average, which means 3-4 balls over a season, he's a fine chess piece.
RE: Talk  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 9:53 am : link
In comment 16073311 drake88 said:
Quote:
about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.


Ok let's take it easy.

I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.

OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.

You'll get there.

Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.
I’d delete this  
UConn4523 : 3/23/2023 9:54 am : link
your math is just wrong and the point you are trying to make isn’t working.
RE: RE: Talk  
Big Blue '56 : 3/23/2023 9:54 am : link
In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 16073311 drake88 said:


Quote:


about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.



Ok let's take it easy.

I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.

OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.

You'll get there.

Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.


Jim’s on a roll today..😂
RE: RE: Talk  
Dr. D : 3/23/2023 10:00 am : link
In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:
Quote:


Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.

I agree allstar. I initially started to respond in a pretty snarky way, but reconsidered and removed the slight insult. I try to remember the golden rule even online (which it seems a lot of people are unfamiliar with these days).
RE: RE: RE: Talk  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 10:01 am : link
In comment 16073330 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 16073311 drake88 said:


Quote:


about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.



Ok let's take it easy.

I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.

OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.

You'll get there.

Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.



Jim’s on a roll today..😂


I was being sincere! I genuinely think the OP might be in like, middle school maybe? Or could even be a high schooler...either way, if OP is not a kid, there's still nothing wrong with a little more civility!
Let’s conveniently leave out when they occur  
eli4life : 3/23/2023 10:09 am : link
During crunch time when you need it the most the other guys mentioned make the play 99out of a 100 times ( assuming the db doesn’t make a play). When it’s to slayton I pray I can start breathing again
RE: RE: RE: Talk  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 10:16 am : link
In comment 16073345 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:


Quote:




Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.


I agree allstar. I initially started to respond in a pretty snarky way, but reconsidered and removed the slight insult. I try to remember the golden rule even online (which it seems a lot of people are unfamiliar with these days).


The Golden Rule...something we should all live by. That anonymity of online written communication...it really does seem to leave out the deference we typically give in face-to-face communication. I wonder if people just relish not having to conform to societal niceties online. Perhaps, we really like to just let loose all the things we wish sometimes we could say out in the world but it would be rude, or perhaps dangerous to do so.

Heck, I've enjoyed a good flame war in my day, but in the end, I don't feel great about it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Talk  
Big Blue '56 : 3/23/2023 10:20 am : link
In comment 16073352 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 16073330 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 16073311 drake88 said:


Quote:


about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.



Ok let's take it easy.

I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.

OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.

You'll get there.

Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.



Jim’s on a roll today..😂



I was being sincere! I genuinely think the OP might be in like, middle school maybe? Or could even be a high schooler...either way, if OP is not a kid, there's still nothing wrong with a little more civility!


Understood. Just playing, buddy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Talk  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 10:26 am : link
In comment 16073387 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16073352 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 16073330 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 16073327 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 16073311 drake88 said:


Quote:


about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.



Ok let's take it easy.

I have a suspicion that the OP is very young. If that's the case, OP is starting to learn the game at a deeper level, and that's fine.

OP, you don't have to say anything, but if I'm right about you, don't worry about this one. You'll eventually learn about considering all the relevant data together, to (hopefully) avoid faulty conclusions. But this is a learned skill, so do not take it personally. Just try to think about what other factors might be meaningful or relevant to the point you're trying to make, is there data to quantify those factors, and try to check your biases at the door.

You'll get there.

Guys, we can forget sometimes that the poster might be a kid, particularly when they recently joined the forum. Keep that in mind when you're responding.



Jim’s on a roll today..😂



I was being sincere! I genuinely think the OP might be in like, middle school maybe? Or could even be a high schooler...either way, if OP is not a kid, there's still nothing wrong with a little more civility!



Understood. Just playing, buddy.


All good!
Every reciever has drops  
mavric : 3/23/2023 10:27 am : link
No one said a word when OBJ dropped a pass, or when Diggs or Waddle drops a pass - ever. The thing is with Slayton, is fans expect him to drop a pass so they revel every time it happens and it's all they see about him. It's hard to overcome a "typecast" (for lack of a better term), and some fans need to pat themselves on their backs and tell the world they are really, really smart - smarter than the coaches - and being proven right. It sucks, but such is life and human nature. Slayton is a good WR and coaches and players know it and it's why he got big bucks to stay. Of course, there is no shortage of fans who believe they know far more than coaches.
RE: Every reciever has drops  
Eric on Li : 3/23/2023 10:37 am : link
In comment 16073401 mavric said:
Quote:
No one said a word when OBJ dropped a pass, or when Diggs or Waddle drops a pass - ever. The thing is with Slayton, is fans expect him to drop a pass so they revel every time it happens and it's all they see about him. It's hard to overcome a "typecast" (for lack of a better term), and some fans need to pat themselves on their backs and tell the world they are really, really smart - smarter than the coaches - and being proven right. It sucks, but such is life and human nature. Slayton is a good WR and coaches and players know it and it's why he got big bucks to stay. Of course, there is no shortage of fans who believe they know far more than coaches.


i remember plenty being said about obj during/after the gb wild card game.

Quote:
It has been two weeks since the New York Giants' season came to a crashing halt, with the roof falling on the reputation of wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. He dropped a pair of passes -- including a potential early touchdown -- and several other balls that a wide receiver of his ilk is supposed to catch in any game, much less a playoff game.

The Giants' top playmaker had nine drops on the first 381 targets of his career. He had six on his final 82 targets this past season. That is a drop every 14 passes thrown in his direction compared to one every 42 over the first two and a half years of his career, leaving one to wonder what contributed to this sudden curious case of drops.


slayton dropped 1 ball for every 10 thrown his way this year and last, including 2 on 8 targets vs minnesota, so if anything maybe everyone was a little hard on beckham.
A look at Odell Beckham Jr.'s curious case of drops - ( New Window )
FWIW  
Rod in St Cloud : 3/23/2023 10:42 am : link
Hodgins had no drops. Can't do better than that!
RE: Every reciever has drops  
Wildcardgiants : 3/23/2023 10:47 am : link
In comment 16073401 mavric said:
Quote:
No one said a word when OBJ dropped a pass, or when Diggs or Waddle drops a pass - ever. The thing is with Slayton, is fans expect him to drop a pass so they revel every time it happens and it's all they see about him. It's hard to overcome a "typecast" (for lack of a better term), and some fans need to pat themselves on their backs and tell the world they are really, really smart - smarter than the coaches - and being proven right. It sucks, but such is life and human nature. Slayton is a good WR and coaches and players know it and it's why he got big bucks to stay. Of course, there is no shortage of fans who believe they know far more than coaches.


Yes, and we need to stop defining the guy by his 5 bad plays. I simply don't understand it.
RE: Talk  
Wildcardgiants : 3/23/2023 10:48 am : link
In comment 16073311 drake88 said:
Quote:
about lying with statistics. What a dumb fucking post.


Go F0ck yourself
RE: Maybe you should post the actual relevant stat. Drop%.  
Wildcardgiants : 3/23/2023 10:51 am : link
In comment 16073302 BillT said:
Quote:
Slayton’s drop % was 9.9. That’s the 11th worst in the league. So, if you want fair, this is what’s fair.

This is also a cherry picked stat. The more a guy plays and is involved in plays, usually the better they get, Running backs need reps and so do receivers. Do you believe if he had 90 receptions had have more than double the drops? I 100% don't...
RE: RE: Maybe you should post the actual relevant stat. Drop%.  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 11:01 am : link
In comment 16073430 Wildcardgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 16073302 BillT said:


Quote:


Slayton’s drop % was 9.9. That’s the 11th worst in the league. So, if you want fair, this is what’s fair.


This is also a cherry picked stat. The more a guy plays and is involved in plays, usually the better they get, Running backs need reps and so do receivers. Do you believe if he had 90 receptions had have more than double the drops? I 100% don't...


It's a relevant stat. I think Slayton is who he has shown himself to be during his time in the NFL. Not great hands/ball skills for the position, average receiver/route runner, with great speed. It's been 4 years, the time for projection has passed.
So....  
Wildcardgiants : 3/23/2023 11:10 am : link
It's been 4 years for DJ. Do we know what he is yet? Let's be consistent in our logic.
Let's call it for what it is  
BeggarsBanquet : 3/23/2023 11:21 am : link
The WRs aren't great but they have been unnecessarily slagged here to boost up Daniel Jones.

RE: So....  
Big Blue '56 : 3/23/2023 11:23 am : link
In comment 16073454 Wildcardgiants said:
Quote:
It's been 4 years for DJ. Do we know what he is yet? Let's be consistent in our logic.


Yes, we do. We saw what Daboll did with his talent the way he raised Josh Allen’s game (not comparing QBs with each other)..DJ is a good QB who hopefully ascends further with better toys..

Slayton is who he is..
RE: Let's call it for what it is  
Big Blue '56 : 3/23/2023 11:24 am : link
In comment 16073463 BeggarsBanquet said:
Quote:
The WRs aren't great but they have been unnecessarily slagged here to boost up Daniel Jones.


What a stupid fucking post
RE: RE: Let's call it for what it is  
BeggarsBanquet : 3/23/2023 11:38 am : link
In comment 16073466 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16073463 BeggarsBanquet said:


Quote:


The WRs aren't great but they have been unnecessarily slagged here to boost up Daniel Jones.




What a stupid fucking post


What awful language by a grown man. But it's true. You need the WRs to be garbage in order to justify Jones' pedestrian numbers. You're angry because it's true.
Who's dupe is this?  
Johnny5 : 3/23/2023 11:38 am : link
My guess is Debaser. lol
RE: Who's dupe is this?  
BeggarsBanquet : 3/23/2023 11:39 am : link
In comment 16073490 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
My guess is Debaser. lol


Is that someone you brave Jones boosters had banned for hurting your feelings?
RE: So....  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 11:40 am : link
In comment 16073454 Wildcardgiants said:
Quote:
It's been 4 years for DJ. Do we know what he is yet? Let's be consistent in our logic.


I think if you've seen my posts on DJ for the last 6 months or more, you'd know my answer to that question, which absolutely would be consistent.

That said, if there is a case to be made for a late bloomer, it would be at the QB position, which is a for more mentally demanding position to learn. I don't think you can fairly say the learning curve for NFL QB and NFL WR is at all even close to the same.
RE: Let's call it for what it is  
allstarjim : 3/23/2023 11:43 am : link
In comment 16073463 BeggarsBanquet said:
Quote:
The WRs aren't great but they have been unnecessarily slagged here to boost up Daniel Jones.


Hmmm, there are some of us who are down on both receivers and DJ.
RE: RE: Who's dupe is this?  
Johnny5 : 3/23/2023 11:46 am : link
In comment 16073492 BeggarsBanquet said:
Quote:
In comment 16073490 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


My guess is Debaser. lol



Is that someone you brave Jones boosters had banned for hurting your feelings?

lol

Slayton  
Spiciest Memelord : 3/23/2023 11:56 am : link
also doesn't have good body control or core strength to win any sort of contested catch, which makes him a fairly limited roleplayer type receiver. The Steve Kerr of WRs.
RE: Slayton  
BeggarsBanquet : 3/23/2023 11:58 am : link
In comment 16073515 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
also doesn't have good body control or core strength to win any sort of contested catch, which makes him a fairly limited roleplayer type receiver. The Steve Kerr of WRs.


He's a low end 2, mid range 3.
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