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Giants had dinner with Zay Flowers

No1MDGiantsFan : 3/23/2023 10:52 am
Per Pelissero “ Boston College WR Zay Flowers has back-to-back dinners with the #Saints and #Giants tonight before Friday’s pro day, per source. A projected first-round pick, Flowers put on 13 pounds of muscle in pre-combine training (and may pack on a few more during this part of the process).”
Zay is  
Giantophile : 3/23/2023 10:53 am : link
a gamer and my first choice for a realistic pick at #25.
Schoen and his crew  
Dave on the UWS : 3/23/2023 10:57 am : link
are VERY diligent about vetting and being confident they are getting their guy, or "guys" who fit their locker room. Placing "square pegs in round holes" doesn't seem to be in their DNA. refreshing!!
This  
AcidTest : 3/23/2023 10:59 am : link
means nothing. The Giants also had dinner with JSN. They will likely do so with many other players as well.
Giants had dinner with everyone in this draft  
Mike in NY : 3/23/2023 11:00 am : link
!
Flowers keeps going to  
section125 : 3/23/2023 11:00 am : link
dinner and he'll be overweight!
Giants  
JaxGiant : 3/23/2023 11:01 am : link
Just like going to dinner and invite people to tag along.
Touchdowns  
gregori : 3/23/2023 11:02 am : link
I watched a lot of BC eagle football last year and can safely say that with any type of decent quarterback play Flowers could have had six to eight additional touchdowns.
Numerous times he was wide open around the goal line after beating his man deep only to have the quarterback throw 10 yards over his head or 10 yards into the dirt in front of him.
Red flag  
k2tampa : 3/23/2023 11:08 am : link
Guy whose weight was listed at 175 puts on 13 pounds of muscle, about 7 percent of his body weight, in less than 3 months? Not without some heavy doses of chemicals.
Before  
Y28 : 3/23/2023 11:10 am : link
and after pix
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Red flag  
give66 : 3/23/2023 11:17 am : link
In comment 16073451 k2tampa said:
Quote:
Guy whose weight was listed at 175 puts on 13 pounds of muscle, about 7 percent of his body weight, in less than 3 months? Not without some heavy doses of chemicals.


Interviewing for potentially generational wealth. You don't think most of these guys are geared up for combine and pro days? Ncaa football over so they aren't testing and not part of NFL so they aren't either.
I'm not saying Zay is but I don't look down him if he did.
RE: Red flag  
kcgiants : 3/23/2023 11:19 am : link
In comment 16073451 k2tampa said:
Quote:
Guy whose weight was listed at 175 puts on 13 pounds of muscle, about 7 percent of his body weight, in less than 3 months? Not without some heavy doses of chemicals.

Are any blood test done before the draft? Since they aren't NFL players yet, the union shouldn't be able to object.
Flowers  
noro9 : 3/23/2023 11:19 am : link
Probably doesn't have room for breakfast this morning
Combine  
bronxct1 : 3/23/2023 11:25 am : link
I believe the combine does a PED test so it's a risk if you're juicing up between the college season ending and the combine.
RE: Red flag  
ThreePoints : 3/23/2023 11:26 am : link
In comment 16073451 k2tampa said:
Quote:
Guy whose weight was listed at 175 puts on 13 pounds of muscle, about 7 percent of his body weight, in less than 3 months? Not without some heavy doses of chemicals.


This is ridiculous. Honestly...what else is he doing? He's getting ready to be an NFL player? You think he's sitting on the couch everyday and going to the gym for 20 minutes once a week?

He's probably lifting every day and consuming huge amounts of food to put on muscle. This is his job right now - getting ready for the draft. If he put on 1 pound of muscle every other week, that covers it.
RE: Red flag  
No1MDGiantsFan : 3/23/2023 11:28 am : link
In comment 16073451 k2tampa said:
Quote:
Guy whose weight was listed at 175 puts on 13 pounds of muscle, about 7 percent of his body weight, in less than 3 months? Not without some heavy doses of chemicals.


Funniest shit I’ve read in a while
RE: Flowers keeps going to  
81_Great_Dane : 3/23/2023 11:29 am : link
In comment 16073444 section125 said:
Quote:
dinner and he'll be overweight!
LOL I had the same thought.

Somebody once wrote advice to newbies to Hollywood: When someone takes you out to dinner, order every course: appetizer, entree, sides and dessert. I bet it doesn't really work that way for athletes.
RE: This  
Jim in Tampa : 3/23/2023 11:33 am : link
In comment 16073441 AcidTest said:
Quote:
means nothing. The Giants also had dinner with JSN. They will likely do so with many other players as well.

Come on. It doesn't mean they're going to pick Flowers if he's still on the board at 25, but it's certainly not NOTHING.

I assume that the Giants (or any NFL team for that matter) are only going to have dinner with a player if he is both under consideration AND the team thinks they have a legitimate shot to draft him.

Zay is on my short list of WRs who I want the Giants to consider at 25, even though may BBIers have him on their "too short" list ;>)
This might be the WR I prefer  
BSIMatt : 3/23/2023 11:33 am : link
I'm hoping WR needy teams take JSN/Addison or even QJ and Flowers is there.

Lol at the adding 13 pounds of muscle in 2 months, that's a lie.
I’d say, if he makes it to #25  
GoDeep13 : 3/23/2023 11:35 am : link
He’d be the betting favorite right now.
RE: I’d say, if he makes it to #25  
JonC : 3/23/2023 11:42 am : link
In comment 16073486 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
He’d be the betting favorite right now.


Yes, presuming he's the best one left from their board.
RE: RE: I’d say, if he makes it to #25  
shocktheworld : 3/23/2023 11:53 am : link
In comment 16073498 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16073486 GoDeep13 said:


Quote:


He’d be the betting favorite right now.



Yes, presuming he's the best one left from their board.


if Deonte Banks and Zay are there at #26, who would you take?
One  
Professor Falken : 3/23/2023 12:06 pm : link
thing to keep in mind with Flowers and Jayden Reed. They can return punts as well.
RE: RE: Red flag  
k2tampa : 3/23/2023 12:12 pm : link
In comment 16073472 No1MDGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 16073451 k2tampa said:


Quote:


Guy whose weight was listed at 175 puts on 13 pounds of muscle, about 7 percent of his body weight, in less than 3 months? Not without some heavy doses of chemicals.



Funniest shit I’ve read in a while


There are two concerns here. The second of which is it likely isn't all muscle. HIS camp is saying he gained 13 pounds "of muscle", which of course helps minimize one of the negatives about him, and it seems the "reporter" just accepted the highly doubtful info as fact.

"An essay published by The University of Washington found that the first 3-6 months of strict-form training are the most effective, but, especially after two years, muscle gain becomes significantly harder."
I think we can assume Flowers has been lifting weights regularly for the last two years or longer.

"According to a McMaster University study, the average man, training four times a week for 10-12 weeks is able to gain around 3kg (6.5 pounds) of muscle."
So we are to believe that Flowers can add double what the average weight training man (average by the way is taller than Flowers) adds, even though the U of Washington says it would be harder for him to gain muscle mass than someone new to weight training.
RE: Giants  
Spiciest Memelord : 3/23/2023 12:12 pm : link
In comment 16073448 JaxGiant said:
Quote:
Just like going to dinner and invite people to tag along.


...  
ryanmkeane : 3/23/2023 12:16 pm : link
Deebo Samuel vibes
I would take Banks over Flowers  
Chip : 3/23/2023 12:25 pm : link
We already have Shepherd and Robinson. Do we really need a 3rd.
Anyone have a running tally on the dinners  
Breeze_94 : 3/23/2023 12:32 pm : link
Flowers, JSN, Spears, Cam Smith

Joes been eatin good recently
April showers  
jeff57 : 3/23/2023 12:40 pm : link
Bring Zay Flowers.
pretty clear  
crooza172 : 3/23/2023 12:42 pm : link
the Giants are not content at this spot. Will be an interesting month or so leading up to the draft. We still need to solidify to line so I expect high draft capital there as well.
RE: Before  
ColHowPepper : 3/23/2023 12:50 pm : link
In comment 16073453 Y28 said:
Quote:
and after pix Link - ( New Window )

Man, even at the 183lb pic his legs look really spindly. I'm not in their seats and JS/BD/Kafka are going to pick their gus, but jeez can't let go of my aversion to skinny frames being devastated by 245lb LBs or 215lb Ss.
RE: Red flag  
Darth Paul : 3/23/2023 12:54 pm : link
In comment 16073451 k2tampa said:
Quote:
Guy whose weight was listed at 175 puts on 13 pounds of muscle, about 7 percent of his body weight, in less than 3 months? Not without some heavy doses of chemicals.

The Program - Coach doesn't want to know about this - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I’d say, if he makes it to #25  
JonC : 3/23/2023 12:55 pm : link
In comment 16073510 shocktheworld said:
Quote:
In comment 16073498 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 16073486 GoDeep13 said:


Quote:


He’d be the betting favorite right now.



Yes, presuming he's the best one left from their board.



if Deonte Banks and Zay are there at #26, who would you take?


I'd lean towards Banks but the Zay hype is cranking up.
idgaf who it is  
ArcadeSlumlord : 3/23/2023 12:57 pm : link
the 25th pick needs to be an offensive weapon, 3 down player.
Goals  
Colin@gbn : 3/23/2023 1:05 pm : link

Jon et al: Interesting discussion. I was somewhat curious to see what the Giants did with Flowers in the sense were they just interested or JSN or were there others they were looking at. (Remember they did zip with Addison; in fact the only reference to the Giants at the USC pro day was that they were one of 3-4 teams that talked extensively with Tuipulotu.)

My sense here is that the Giants already pretty much know what they want to do with the #1 pick and that's get THE best receiver option they can. That's in fact the way teams draft. And the only real question is whether they will be comfortable thinking that who gets to 25 will fit the bill or will they have to trade up. The problem with JSN is that is very likely to go to Houston at #12 which may be too rich to jump. So does Flowers emerge as a 2-3 option. Going to be an intriguing month.
Colin  
cosmicj : 3/23/2023 1:07 pm : link
Why do you think Houston is taking JSN?
Colin  
JonC : 3/23/2023 1:08 pm : link
I agree, and if they're unable to get a WR they're comfortable with my money shifts to CB.
RE: Goals  
CornerStone246+17 : 3/23/2023 1:08 pm : link
In comment 16073608 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:

Jon et al: Interesting discussion. I was somewhat curious to see what the Giants did with Flowers in the sense were they just interested or JSN or were there others they were looking at. (Remember they did zip with Addison; in fact the only reference to the Giants at the USC pro day was that they were one of 3-4 teams that talked extensively with Tuipulotu.)

My sense here is that the Giants already pretty much know what they want to do with the #1 pick and that's get THE best receiver option they can. That's in fact the way teams draft. And the only real question is whether they will be comfortable thinking that who gets to 25 will fit the bill or will they have to trade up. The problem with JSN is that is very likely to go to Houston at #12 which may be too rich to jump. So does Flowers emerge as a 2-3 option. Going to be an intriguing month.


The run for WRs has a pretty good chance to happen 5-7 picks before us. They may need to spend a 3rd to move up and secure the top guy remaining in our highest tier if that is the case.
RE: Goals  
ColHowPepper : 3/23/2023 1:10 pm : link
In comment 16073608 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
...My sense here is that the Giants already pretty much know what they want to do with the #1 pick and that's get THE best receiver option they can....

Hi, Colin: Isn't that what DG thought he was doing with Toney? Isn't that what, we think, JS was doing with Robinson in the 2nd?"
Not sure I like that approach
...  
ryanmkeane : 3/23/2023 1:18 pm : link
kinda felt this way when I listened to Neal speak last year during interviews...Flowers seems to be a no nonsense football kind of dude
...  
ryanmkeane : 3/23/2023 1:21 pm : link
If Schoen and Daboll are looking for explosive athletes who can get open, Flowers is likely their #1 receiver on their board
Interesting point  
Colin@gbn : 3/23/2023 1:31 pm : link
ColHow : No question its an interesting point. But, the Giants are trying to build a championship quality football team here and they can probably see that every other championship quality team in the league has a WR room full of really good receivers and to get to that next level its that one major piece that we are missing. and you keep working on it until you get it right. Again you don't want to be reaching, but at the same time nobody's ever won a championship taking a safe, conservative, we need fall backs and escape hatches at every turn approach. Time will tell.
I think Toney was a Judge pick  
JonC : 3/23/2023 1:37 pm : link
and DG reluctantly relented after their primary targets were drafted ahead of their trade down, eg AVT, and the Davis LB picked by WASH. A desperate decision for a doomed bunch.

They were definitely zeroed in on Wandale, come hell or high water, the trade downs etc were all designed around ensuring they got him. Not a fan of the pick.
RE: Goals  
AcidTest : 3/23/2023 1:49 pm : link
In comment 16073608 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:

Jon et al: Interesting discussion. I was somewhat curious to see what the Giants did with Flowers in the sense were they just interested or JSN or were there others they were looking at. (Remember they did zip with Addison; in fact the only reference to the Giants at the USC pro day was that they were one of 3-4 teams that talked extensively with Tuipulotu.)

My sense here is that the Giants already pretty much know what they want to do with the #1 pick and that's get THE best receiver option they can. That's in fact the way teams draft. And the only real question is whether they will be comfortable thinking that who gets to 25 will fit the bill or will they have to trade up. The problem with JSN is that is very likely to go to Houston at #12 which may be too rich to jump. So does Flowers emerge as a 2-3 option. Going to be an intriguing month.


Again, I think the Giants will simply take the BPA at #25. That may well be a WR, but it might not. They may well prefer to take a WR at #25, but won't force that pick if a player at another position is rated higher. They aren't locked into any position at #25.

I agree that the cost of trading up for JSN will likely be prohibitive for Schoen. That may well also be true for Flowers since he's likely to come off the board early as well.
RE: I think Toney was a Judge pick  
AcidTest : 3/23/2023 1:51 pm : link
In comment 16073691 JonC said:
Quote:
and DG reluctantly relented after their primary targets were drafted ahead of their trade down, eg AVT, and the Davis LB picked by WASH. A desperate decision for a doomed bunch.

They were definitely zeroed in on Wandale, come hell or high water, the trade downs etc were all designed around ensuring they got him. Not a fan of the pick.


AVT was never going to make it to #20. My understanding is that DG wanted Darrisaw, which would have been the correct choice. I didn't like the Toney or Robinson picks.
I was being general with the prospects I mentioned  
JonC : 3/23/2023 1:56 pm : link
Darrisaw was in the mix, and he should've picked him at #20.
RE: RE: Goals  
Colin@gbn : 3/23/2023 2:28 pm : link
In comment 16073727 AcidTest said:
Quote:


Again, I think the Giants will simply take the BPA at #25. That may well be a WR, but it might not. They may well prefer to take a WR at #25, but won't force that pick if a player at another position is rated higher. They aren't locked into any position at #25.

I agree that the cost of trading up for JSN will likely be prohibitive for Schoen. That may well also be true for Flowers since he's likely to come off the board early as well.


Acid: One of my draft rules is never say never because anything is possible, but the draft room you are describing just doesn't exist in the NFL. teams know they players they like, teams know the position they want and they just don't sit there like so many bumps on a log hoping. I can guaantee you that that strategy is not in Howie Roseman's Eagles playbook.

Again I don't know how this is going to play out but if indeed the Giants primary off-season goal wis to get some explosive playmakers for the offense, then they are likely to have a grouping of WRs they like. Certainly one would assume that JSN is in their top tier, likely Flowers too. Not quite as clear where Addison and Johnston and Hyatt but for the sake of argument lets say they're in the Giants second tier.

It may indeed be too expensive to trade all the way up to 11-12 to get one of your top guys (because I doubt that the Giants would be willing to move either their #1 or #2 next year. However, if one of those top guys gets to 15 you could probably get him for a 2nd and a later pick, expensive but not prohibitive. If the top two guys are gone then you sit tight as long as two of your second group are there. Once that group gets down to one, then you make your move. Presumbaly that will be much closer to the low 20s where it likely would only cost a 3rd and maybe a later pick to move. And quite honestly given this draft class and the Giants do want a receiver and they can't make it happen, then that's on them!!

But again time will tell.



RE: Interesting point  
Spiciest Memelord : 3/23/2023 3:36 pm : link
In comment 16073675 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
ColHow : No question its an interesting point. But, the Giants are trying to build a championship quality football team here and they can probably see that every other championship quality team in the league has a WR room full of really good receivers and to get to that next level its that one major piece that we are missing. and you keep working on it until you get it right. Again you don't want to be reaching, but at the same time nobody's ever won a championship taking a safe, conservative, we need fall backs and escape hatches at every turn approach. Time will tell.


Its putting the horse before the cart or whatever that stupid expression is. I'm pretty sure there's a strong correlation between good teams and good olines.
RE: RE: Interesting point  
BigBlueShock : 3/23/2023 3:46 pm : link
In comment 16073887 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 16073675 Colin@gbn said:


Quote:


ColHow : No question its an interesting point. But, the Giants are trying to build a championship quality football team here and they can probably see that every other championship quality team in the league has a WR room full of really good receivers and to get to that next level its that one major piece that we are missing. and you keep working on it until you get it right. Again you don't want to be reaching, but at the same time nobody's ever won a championship taking a safe, conservative, we need fall backs and escape hatches at every turn approach. Time will tell.



It’s putting the horse before the cart or whatever that stupid expression is. I'm pretty sure there's a strong correlation between good teams and good olines.

Why is it an either/or thing with you? You may not be capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time but I’m pretty sure good teams are capable of working on more than one thing at a time. Screaming about OL every time a WR is mentioned just seems so amateurish
RE: RE: RE: Goals  
AcidTest : 3/23/2023 3:52 pm : link
In comment 16073807 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
In comment 16073727 AcidTest said:


Quote:




Again, I think the Giants will simply take the BPA at #25. That may well be a WR, but it might not. They may well prefer to take a WR at #25, but won't force that pick if a player at another position is rated higher. They aren't locked into any position at #25.

I agree that the cost of trading up for JSN will likely be prohibitive for Schoen. That may well also be true for Flowers since he's likely to come off the board early as well.



Acid: One of my draft rules is never say never because anything is possible, but the draft room you are describing just doesn't exist in the NFL. teams know they players they like, teams know the position they want and they just don't sit there like so many bumps on a log hoping. I can guaantee you that that strategy is not in Howie Roseman's Eagles playbook.

Again I don't know how this is going to play out but if indeed the Giants primary off-season goal wis to get some explosive playmakers for the offense, then they are likely to have a grouping of WRs they like. Certainly one would assume that JSN is in their top tier, likely Flowers too. Not quite as clear where Addison and Johnston and Hyatt but for the sake of argument lets say they're in the Giants second tier.

It may indeed be too expensive to trade all the way up to 11-12 to get one of your top guys (because I doubt that the Giants would be willing to move either their #1 or #2 next year. However, if one of those top guys gets to 15 you could probably get him for a 2nd and a later pick, expensive but not prohibitive. If the top two guys are gone then you sit tight as long as two of your second group are there. Once that group gets down to one, then you make your move. Presumbaly that will be much closer to the low 20s where it likely would only cost a 3rd and maybe a later pick to move. And quite honestly given this draft class and the Giants do want a receiver and they can't make it happen, then that's on them!!

But again time will tell.




Of course teams have players that they like. The question is how much they are willing to spend to move up to get them. A second and a later pick is prohibitively expensive for any WR (including JSN and Flowers) IMO. Any trade up shouldn't cost more than a third IMO.

Roseman isn't a good analogy. He traded a #1 for Brown to make the Eagles a SB contender. We're not "one player away." He did trade up for D. Smith, but only gave up a third IIRC.

There's just a core group of posters who are obsessed with getting JSN or Flowers, pretty much regardless of cost. And when people object, we get accused of emphasizing "quantity over quality."

JSN and Flowers will likely go long before #25. That leaves trading up for who? Johnson? Hyatt? Addison? Why? One would likely be available at #25, and even if not, this is a WR-rich draft. Plenty of very good WRs will be available in the second and even third rounds.

Bottom line: I'd consider trading a third to move up for JSN or Flowers, but nothing more. I wouldn't move up at all for any other WR.
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