Heyman saying he thinks they're still going to go with Esco to start at 3B so Baty can get more reps on both sides of the ball in AAA. Seems like a mistake. Vientos might have a better shot to make it DH with how bad Ruf has been. I would personally start Baty at 3B and Vientos at DH.
Bullpen haven't heard much as to who will be making the team in those back end spots. Hunter and Curtiss have to be the front runners.
the decision right now isn't as easy or as important as the decisions they make 2-4-6 weeks from now. hopefully we see good escobar and dh production but if not they cannot drag their feet if the kids are performing in aaa. it's still likely they will struggle whenever they get called up but it's better to get those struggles out of the way asap if the other players arent performing.
it depends on the options.
If a kid, in this case Baty, provides a better option to help the team win, on March 30 (or whatever early season day) then they should be in the lineup.
period.
Aaron Boone got it right in his comments to Volpe:
"...you only have 20-something games at AAA...and there's room for development, but in the end I think that development should happen in the big leagues"
Not comparing Volpe and Baty, just saying some things, especially those warts Shecky highlighted can absolutely be fixed in the bigs and IMO should. If, and it's a big if, the Mets think Baty is a better option to win games now than Escobar.
People forget, the Mets lost the division by percentage points, and the April wins count just as much as the September ones. One more April win and the Mets could have won the division just as much as one less September loss.
Anyway, not a huge deal, but this line of thinking to send Baty down to work on stuff seems very old school. I bet the Braves wouldn't send Baty down if he beat out their 3B incumbent and if they did it would be pure financial reasons. But with their aggressive extension approach service time just gets bought out anyway.
Eppler still hasn't impressed me with any of his moves and it's easy to just throw Cohen's money around.
I’d like to think we could fine ANYONE better for that role but that probably would cost more. Even with injuries, Ruf should not see any meaningful playing time.
I’m more concerned with the Mets FO leaving raging hot minor league players in the minors again while sitting through four months of ineffective play in the pros (looking at you Escobar, lol).
Personally, I think Baty should be starting at 3b.
I think Ruf will be given a short leash. Buck would prefer to keep the known entity over a young ‘un, but if Ruf is OPS’ing .500 in early May, I think we’ll see him DFA’d and Vientos brought up.
And Baty won’t be in Cuse very long. Nothing to get worked up about.
Wow, didn’t see that happening so quickly. LoCastro at least offers some defense.
Could do a lot worse with NYM's literal last roster spot.
Could do a lot worse with NYM's literal last roster spot.
I don't think you realize how bad Locastro is. There really isn't much worse than him. We should have just kept Jake Mangum around for speed and D if we were going to go in this direction.
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just a few weeks it makes very little sense to call up right away unless you think the guy is literally already one of the most important players on the team and they are disadvantaged without him. i probably would have done it with alonso in 2019 before we knew how good he was, and if the worst case is like that and baty comes up in a few weeks and goes on to a record breaking roy type year thats not such a bad down side bc if he's that good you get we'll be happy to have an extra year paying him the minimum (and spending an extra 10-20m on someone else).
the decision right now isn't as easy or as important as the decisions they make 2-4-6 weeks from now. hopefully we see good escobar and dh production but if not they cannot drag their feet if the kids are performing in aaa. it's still likely they will struggle whenever they get called up but it's better to get those struggles out of the way asap if the other players arent performing.
it depends on the options.
If a kid, in this case Baty, provides a better option to help the team win, on March 30 (or whatever early season day) then they should be in the lineup.
this is where it's murky though, because it's hard to expect any kid to step right in without growing pains so to me the only times you really pass the "better option" test are with:
1. a truly rare phenom like alonso turned out to be (baty could be this good, im not sure, but obviously the vast majority of prospects arent day 1 phenoms)
2. or a below replacement level veteran option (like ruf might have been)
at 3b the last time we saw escobar he was one of the best players on the team down the stretch and 2 years ago he was an all star when they signed him. so spring numbers aside i think it's fair to expect he will play at or above replacement level. which means the majority of the time that will end up better than a prospect going through growing pains.
if either of 1/2 above ends up being incorrect, the silver lining is that it should be clear in a couple weeks when Baty's ops'ing 1000+ at AAA and in that case the silver lining is they may have saved an extra year of him at the league minimum.
im a believer in the building the strongest possible roster for series in october. the best thing for the team in that view is both escobar and baty having their best years because if that happens escobar's bat probably upgrades DH and he can be sort of a super utility guy. baty playing every day in AAA for a few weeks shouldn't harm his development but benching escobar or playing him part time to start could get his season off poorly like last year. same was true of vientos if he'd made the big league roster but in a limited role vs playing every day aaa.
i dont know if they got the roster decisions right but im glad the key guys are going to hit every day for a few weeks so we can find out relatively quickly. and nobody's service time gets burned while we find out.
Yeah. I don't think a single poster on the Mets threads thought it was a good trade at the time. Shocking how much they gave up in comparison to what they got
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In comment 16075782 Eric on Li said:
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just a few weeks it makes very little sense to call up right away unless you think the guy is literally already one of the most important players on the team and they are disadvantaged without him. i probably would have done it with alonso in 2019 before we knew how good he was, and if the worst case is like that and baty comes up in a few weeks and goes on to a record breaking roy type year thats not such a bad down side bc if he's that good you get we'll be happy to have an extra year paying him the minimum (and spending an extra 10-20m on someone else).
the decision right now isn't as easy or as important as the decisions they make 2-4-6 weeks from now. hopefully we see good escobar and dh production but if not they cannot drag their feet if the kids are performing in aaa. it's still likely they will struggle whenever they get called up but it's better to get those struggles out of the way asap if the other players arent performing.
it depends on the options.
If a kid, in this case Baty, provides a better option to help the team win, on March 30 (or whatever early season day) then they should be in the lineup.
this is where it's murky though, because it's hard to expect any kid to step right in without growing pains so to me the only times you really pass the "better option" test are with:
1. a truly rare phenom like alonso turned out to be (baty could be this good, im not sure, but obviously the vast majority of prospects arent day 1 phenoms)
2. or a below replacement level veteran option (like ruf might have been)
at 3b the last time we saw escobar he was one of the best players on the team down the stretch and 2 years ago he was an all star when they signed him. so spring numbers aside i think it's fair to expect he will play at or above replacement level. which means the majority of the time that will end up better than a prospect going through growing pains.
if either of 1/2 above ends up being incorrect, the silver lining is that it should be clear in a couple weeks when Baty's ops'ing 1000+ at AAA and in that case the silver lining is they may have saved an extra year of him at the league minimum.
im a believer in the building the strongest possible roster for series in october. the best thing for the team in that view is both escobar and baty having their best years because if that happens escobar's bat probably upgrades DH and he can be sort of a super utility guy. baty playing every day in AAA for a few weeks shouldn't harm his development but benching escobar or playing him part time to start could get his season off poorly like last year. same was true of vientos if he'd made the big league roster but in a limited role vs playing every day aaa.
i dont know if they got the roster decisions right but im glad the key guys are going to hit every day for a few weeks so we can find out relatively quickly. and nobody's service time gets burned while we find out.
Not sure if it's true in football, but in hockey they say a prospect is basically done developing at 23.
The theory (and evidence) is the male body still develops in the late teens early 20's and with baseball and hockey you have kids drafted as young as 17/18 so there is a lot of projection - so basically you are developing them or they are being developed in college, etc.
Plus there is emotional development that happens besides the physical.
by 23 there is no more trajectory (for hockey) for the most part.
it doesn't mean they can't improve after 23 it's just not as pronounced. And of course there can be outliers, but they are considered just that. Outliers.
If Baty was 19 or 20 I'd agree with you (and probably the Mets), at 23 I do not.
baseball is different than every other sport bc hitting a baseball is different at all the levels and it's exceedingly rare for prospects to skip levels and be successful. most need to go through each of those levels of pitching and then also a 1-2-3 year adjustment to MLB pitching. as we've seen with top prospects rated just as well as baty like dom, conforto, rosario, it's not linear and there are usually ups/downs. alonso types are the exceptions. conforto was one of those guys called up quickly and who made an instant impact, and he debuted at the same age as vientos/baty (22). he also regressed in his second year and got send back down at 23.
baty has only taken 20 something at bats at AAA, and when called up in the big leagues last year he hit .184 in almost 2x the number of at bats as he got this spring against big leaguers (which is to say neither was a significant sample size). vientos is 23 and has almost 500 aaa at bats with a cumulative 900 ops.
maybe baty is in that small handful but i dont think 6 hits in 25 st at bats against mlb pitchers this spring is a strong signifier, which is why even ahead of ST eppler said it was unlikely he'd make the club out of st. if he's in that small handful we should know within a month that he (and/or vientos) are simply beyond AAA pitching and he'll be up a full year earlier than alonso was. its great that his defense is trending in the right direction but it is also probably a legitimate uphill for him relative to escobar for the time being.
lol, ok.
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That it was so obvious at the time that it was a terrible trade
Yeah. I don't think a single poster on the Mets threads thought it was a good trade at the time. Shocking how much they gave up in comparison to what they got
According to somebody I trust, the Mets were in the mix for a few guys (nobody "exciting" but players like Pham and then were left scrambling)... and when you scramble you often make bad decisions.
2) Escobar was a very productive player two years ago
3) Escobar is viewed as a team leader and “amazing clubhouse guy”
4) Escobar was allegedly hurt most of last year and allegedly only felt healthy after coming back in August. (This is a common line)
5) They clearly don’t fully trust Baty defensively yet
6) Much of Batys production was early in spring training against AAA pitching
7) There are potential service time considerations if Baty is not eligible for ROY draft pick.
Not saying it’s a slam dunk but they clearly don’t want to clog up the DH spot with Escobar and there is no reason to not see if he can still be productive or if last September was a mirage.
lol, ok.
escobar has been an above average hitter with 20+ homers and decent defense in his last 4 full years with an all star appearance in 2021. they didnt give him 24m because they dont like him.
when he was playing terrible for 4 months i said he should have been replaced but credit where it's due, the last 2 months he turned his season around completely, got a bunch of big hits, and ended up with a pretty typical season worth almost 2.5 fwar. even if baty replaces him at some point he is a piece that can help this team win if he plays to his norms.
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That it was so obvious at the time that it was a terrible trade
Yeah. I don't think a single poster on the Mets threads thought it was a good trade at the time. Shocking how much they gave up in comparison to what they got
my initial reaction was that it seemed insane but when i realized how good ruf had been in the prior 2 years since coming back to mlb i assumed they saw something wonky in his numbers that was due for a correction. and in fairness those first few weeks he looked like he was going to be good but then just like naquin teams adjusted i guess and he took a nose dive. both of those were very weird trades for players with very weird careers. both maybe too clever by half compared to just trading for vazquez.
2) Escobar was a very productive player two years ago
3) Escobar is viewed as a team leader and “amazing clubhouse guy”
4) Escobar was allegedly hurt most of last year and allegedly only felt healthy after coming back in August. (This is a common line)
5) They clearly don’t fully trust Baty defensively yet
6) Much of Batys production was early in spring training against AAA pitching
7) There are potential service time considerations if Baty is not eligible for ROY draft pick.
Not saying it’s a slam dunk but they clearly don’t want to clog up the DH spot with Escobar and there is no reason to not see if he can still be productive or if last September was a mirage.
the bold is well said (better than i did).
all of Baty, Vogelbach, Escobar, Vientos could help this team. or all of them may not be able to and they need to add from outside as they tried to do with correa.
there's only 1 way all 4 of them can start the year playing basically every day and that's the way they things are right now. their decision was less to choose 2 of them now than to not bench any of them now.
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Confirmed to start the season with High-A @BKCyclones
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Kevin Parada
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Blade Tidwell
2) Escobar was a very productive player two years ago
3) Escobar is viewed as a team leader and “amazing clubhouse guy”
4) Escobar was allegedly hurt most of last year and allegedly only felt healthy after coming back in August. (This is a common line)
5) They clearly don’t fully trust Baty defensively yet
6) Much of Batys production was early in spring training against AAA pitching
7) There are potential service time considerations if Baty is not eligible for ROY draft pick.
Not saying it’s a slam dunk but they clearly don’t want to clog up the DH spot with Escobar and there is no reason to not see if he can still be productive or if last September was a mirage.
The only reason not to see if Escobar can still be productive is because it's a gamble.
The Mets are gambling Escobar in April will be better than Baty in April.
That is what it boils down to and you will never know the answer, all we will know is how Escobar is in April (or until the time when/if Baty is recalled).
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Using Escobars overall stats to prove your point is disingenuous. I do hope that Escobar’s May/June/July/August last year was the mirage. Because I have no faith that the Mets will make a quick decision on it during the season. They certainly didn’t last season.
or a player with 7 hits in 38 mlb at bats last year (.184) and played just 6 games above AA in AAA.
do the math on the numbers below from britton - baty's .400 obp translates to 10 times on base and i think 5 hits against MLB pitchers this spring, is that really enough evidence to impact anything?
that's why eppler said a month ago there was almost nothing baty could do in ST to win 3b.
Using Escobars overall stats to prove your point is disingenuous. I do hope that Escobar’s May/June/July/August last year was the mirage. Because I have no faith that the Mets will make a quick decision on it during the season. They certainly didn’t last season.
of course he won't play to a .983 ops. nobody expects him to be better than alonso and that's not nearly a reasonable expectation for him.
but on a team lacking power he has the 2nd most homers on the team to alonso over the last several years combined and has hit 20+ in his last 4 full years while and carrying a .250+ ba. he isnt jdd or dom or john mayberry or ruf. his track record indicates the early season struggles were an outlier.
Quinn Brodey made 10 appearances for Stanford in 2015. 10.1 innings 15 hits 10 walks 4 k's 3.48 era. He also pitched 31.2 innings in the NECL allowing 22 hits 19 walks 21 k's... with a *2.27* era... talk about avoiding damage lol
Baty is all upside. He is a consensus top 33 prospect in all of baseball. Of course prospects fail, Rosario was once the #3 prospect and Kelenic pretty high, prospects do fail but when your gamble is against mediocrity I'd take it and not second guess it.
There was a time a couple years ago when the best prospects were skipping AAA or spending very little time there because AAA was basically a taxi squad of AAAA players.
If you look at the track record Baty has in the minors I'd be comfortable giving him some rope - plus...he beat out Escobar in spring training. And his biggest knock - defense - seemed improved.
anyway, as I have maintained all along, I don't think it's life and death, and long-term not likely going to make or break the season, but I would have rewarded Baty for his hard work. Like the Yankees did with Volpe and other teams around the league have done with their youth.
@CST_soxvan
Liam Hendriks will not be placed on 60-day IL, which is encouraging. Responding well to treatment, Hahn said.
Melissa Lockard
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A’s announce they’ve traded Cristian Pache to the Phillies for RHP Billy Sullivan
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"t’s the fourth year of this setup. For the first two years, that’s what everyone did. COVID-19 forced the change. But as baseball and society have moved toward a more post-COVID reality, Angels radio — at the direction of Angels management — remains stuck in the past.
“We found out that it’s not changing — we love our radio people, they do a great job,” Angels owner Arte Moreno said during a rare press session on March 18. “We just found that the economics — 40,000-50,000 miles is not going to change that experience.”"
@andrew_tred
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25s
Elieser Hernandez will begin the season on the IL with a right shoulder strain, Billy Eppler says.
yeah i dont understand oakland here even there's not a lot promising in there with the bat. he got his exit velocity up to average last year but he's basically been a weak contact ground ball machine. when he's not swinging over aggressively without making contact.
what a brutal trade to give up on him that quickly though. langeliers makes some loud contact for a catcher so maybe he works out but he's also already 25.
@AnthonyDiComo
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6m
Mets pitcher Elieser Hernández will begin the season on the injured list due to a right shoulder strain. He's back to playing catch, but the Mets must build him back up a bit.
That’s what I see unfortunately. I think they are behind the Phillies and Atlanta
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