for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Friday Mets Talk

GF1080 : 3/24/2023 11:24 am
Heyman saying he thinks they're still going to go with Esco to start at 3B so Baty can get more reps on both sides of the ball in AAA. Seems like a mistake. Vientos might have a better shot to make it DH with how bad Ruf has been. I would personally start Baty at 3B and Vientos at DH.

Bullpen haven't heard much as to who will be making the team in those back end spots. Hunter and Curtiss have to be the front runners.
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
i can see the argument for baty/vientos either way  
Eric on Li : 3/24/2023 11:28 am : link
bottomline with both is you want them to get off to a hot start and you want them to play.

if they are the best options for their spots id keep them up and plan to give them 2 weeks playing every day.

otherwise id send them down to play every day but be ready to call them up in 2 weeks if players are performing and they are down in AAA.
I'm not too worried about the young guys starting in AAA  
KDavies : 3/24/2023 11:31 am : link
there will inevitably be injuries/underperformance issues. They will be up soon enough
seems to me  
Dr. D : 3/24/2023 11:37 am : link
Ruf is cooked and wins/losses in April count just as much as they do in Sept.

I can kind of understand the thinking on Baty, though if it was up to me, he'd be starting at 3rd. But Vientos >>>>> Ruf. Why do we have to wait for what seems to be inevitable (and possibly lose a game or 2 due to lack of scoring with Ruf going 0-4).
If They’re Sent Down  
Samiam : 3/24/2023 11:37 am : link
Do the Mets gain an extra year of control if the kids get sent down? Or, is that lost because they were on the team last year?
speaking of young guys demayo updated his top 20 post-spring  
Eric on Li : 3/24/2023 11:39 am : link
the top 10 is looking really good but beyond that it drops off quick.
https://sny.tv/articles/mets-updated-top-20-prospects-2023 - ( New Window )
RE: If They’re Sent Down  
Eric on Li : 3/24/2023 11:40 am : link
In comment 16074522 Samiam said:
Quote:
Do the Mets gain an extra year of control if the kids get sent down? Or, is that lost because they were on the team last year?


think it depends on how much time they spend down. i dont believe last year burned anything, and i cant remember if the service time calculation changed in the new cba (dmm?) but i believe the braves are attempting to do that with grissom even though he debuted last year.
RE: RE: If They’re Sent Down  
Optimus-NY : 3/24/2023 11:44 am : link
In comment 16074525 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16074522 Samiam said:


Quote:


Do the Mets gain an extra year of control if the kids get sent down? Or, is that lost because they were on the team last year?



think it depends on how much time they spend down. i dont believe last year burned anything, and i cant remember if the service time calculation changed in the new cba (dmm?) but i believe the braves are attempting to do that with grissom even though he debuted last year.


Wasn't the magic date June 1st Eric? I seem to remember that being the date that teams would look at to call up guys on the cusp, but who they wanted to keep control of for an extra year.
i think the issue with vientos is part time mlb rh dh vs full time aaa  
Eric on Li : 3/24/2023 11:44 am : link
In comment 16074521 Dr. D said:
Quote:
Ruf is cooked and wins/losses in April count just as much as they do in Sept.

I can kind of understand the thinking on Baty, though if it was up to me, he'd be starting at 3rd. But Vientos >>>>> Ruf. Why do we have to wait for what seems to be inevitable (and possibly lose a game or 2 due to lack of scoring with Ruf going 0-4).


if he stays up, despite vogey, they need to get him more than 2 starts per week or else why bother?

in 2021 he had reverse splits, so if he stays up he needs to be given a look as almost full time DH with vogey mixing in, not the other way around.

nobody is served well with the young guys sitting on the bench. that is just a waste.

and a complicating factor with vientos is baty - because if baty makes it they are going to want to hit escobar at dh.

so id be kind of shocked if both make it. i think it's 50/50 they keep one of them and 50/50 which on they keep if they do. and very possible both start in AAA.
RE: RE: RE: If They’re Sent Down  
Eric on Li : 3/24/2023 11:49 am : link
In comment 16074530 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16074525 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16074522 Samiam said:


Quote:


Do the Mets gain an extra year of control if the kids get sent down? Or, is that lost because they were on the team last year?



think it depends on how much time they spend down. i dont believe last year burned anything, and i cant remember if the service time calculation changed in the new cba (dmm?) but i believe the braves are attempting to do that with grissom even though he debuted last year.



Wasn't the magic date June 1st Eric? I seem to remember that being the date that teams would look at to call up guys on the cusp, but who they wanted to keep control of for an extra year.


this is from mlb.com and how i remember it from alonso a few years ago, it wasn't june 1 but rather holding him for a few weeks to make sure he didn't hit 173 days total (which they didnt do, they called him up right away).



im not sure if there's some other rule that impacts this calculation if a player was called up the prior year, but there probably should be since so many owners are so cheap. i know this was part of the cba discussions but i dont remember if they actually changed anything.
https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/service-time - ( New Window )
Phillies  
pjcas18 : 3/24/2023 11:56 am : link
likely lost Rhys Hopkins for the year to an ACL tear fielding a pop-up.

He is seeking a 2nd opinion, but I think that's just to be 100% sure though Dombrowski says it's torn.
RE: Phillies  
speedywheels : 3/24/2023 12:01 pm : link
In comment 16074549 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
likely lost Rhys Hopkins for the year to an ACL tear fielding a pop-up.

He is seeking a 2nd opinion, but I think that's just to be 100% sure though Dombrowski says it's torn.


Gee, that's a shame....
RE: speaking of young guys demayo updated his top 20 post-spring  
GF1080 : 3/24/2023 12:47 pm : link
In comment 16074523 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
the top 10 is looking really good but beyond that it drops off quick. https://sny.tv/articles/mets-updated-top-20-prospects-2023 - ( New Window )


Not a bad list. I think Tidwell moves quick and we see him at some point next year. I think we might see Hamel and/or Vasil later this year. Going to be interesting to see with Scherzer and Verlander's age if we go after a #1/#2 in FA with Nola, Urias, and Burnes coming around the corner after 2024/25.

Pipeline ranked out farm #11 which sounds about right. A lot of high upside close to ready bats, some interesting pitching, and a whole bunch of high upside lottery tickets years away.
OD Starter  
GF1080 : 3/24/2023 1:40 pm : link
Scherzer named OD starter down in Miami. I'll be down there so let's get at it!
this is interesting from ragazzo (but really heyman)  
Eric on Li : 3/24/2023 1:42 pm : link
Quote:
According to Jon Heyman of The New York Post, Brett Baty looks unlikely to make the Mets out of camp, and Mark Vientos may have a better chance.

As Heyman noted, Vientos has hit against better pitching, which has been noticed by scouts.

“He’s faced the top dogs and has looked good at the plate,” one scout told The Post.


demayo said his d looked better at 3b too, so it's hard to make any argument for ruf except that he's easier to waste on the bench not playing (in case that's a concern with the role for vientos vs playing every day in aaa).
MLB insider Jon Heyman says Mark Vientos has a better chance than Brett Baty to make the Mets' Opening Day roster. - ( New Window )
They gave up a ton for Ruf  
Vanzetti : 3/24/2023 3:07 pm : link
I think you have to give him at least two months to show something. He did put up an an OPS of over .900 just two years ago.

I think he is likely done but Mets should have enough to carry him for a month or two.
RE: Phillies  
Vanzetti : 3/24/2023 3:09 pm : link
In comment 16074549 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
likely lost Rhys Hopkins for the year to an ACL tear fielding a pop-up.

He is seeking a 2nd opinion, but I think that's just to be 100% sure though Dombrowski says it's torn.


That's a huge loss for Phils. Hopkins strikes out a lot but he also comes up big a lot.

And he is a fiery guy. They will miss his leadership
People get way to hung up on the opening day roster IMO  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 10:11 am : link
Within a week or two injuries will kick in and the whole board will open up.

I have zero issues with Baty starting in AAA.
RE: They gave up a ton for Ruf  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 10:14 am : link
In comment 16074779 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
I think you have to give him at least two months to show something. He did put up an an OPS of over .900 just two years ago.

I think he is likely done but Mets should have enough to carry him for a month or two.


The main reason I dont mind carrying Ruf is because the shortside of a DH platoon is a terrible position on a Buck Showalter team. We saw it with JD Davis last year and then with Ruf. He doesnt try to get them extra work when they arent in their main roles. So you are looking at getting a start a week most of the time. That's HORRIBLE for any major league player to get into any sort of rhythm and do well.

If somebody is going to suffer in that role, I'd rather it be Ruf because I simply dont care about him. Would hate to see one of the younger guys rotting on the bench when they should be getting everyday reps in AAA.
RE: People get way to hung up on the opening day roster IMO  
GF1080 : 3/25/2023 12:03 pm : link
In comment 16075088 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Within a week or two injuries will kick in and the whole board will open up.

I have zero issues with Baty starting in AAA.


Sure but if he's good enough 2 weeks from now then he should just be here to start. Games in April count just as much as any other time of year.
RE: RE: People get way to hung up on the opening day roster IMO  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 12:41 pm : link
In comment 16075167 GF1080 said:
Quote:
In comment 16075088 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Within a week or two injuries will kick in and the whole board will open up.

I have zero issues with Baty starting in AAA.



Sure but if he's good enough 2 weeks from now then he should just be here to start. Games in April count just as much as any other time of year.


Here's the problem. People think if you cut Ruf, Baty can take his spot on the roster. Problems solved. But really, that alone, isnt going to do anything for Baty. What people are really wanting is for Baty to start at 3B, which would push Escobar to the bench.

Escobar is coming off a season right in line with his career averages giving us 20 HR pop. Baty in his small stint at the end of 22 was terrible defensively and offensively. Are we really expected to believe the Mets are going to 100% bench Escobar on day 1? I think it's coming soon but dont mind it one bit if they want Baty to catch fire in AAA first and earn his way back. If Escobar, Ruf, etc. are all truly terrible as many say, they will prove that in short order making the move obvious. I dont mind preserving our depth for now and letting everything sort itself out naturally.
Mets fans campaigning to hand the keys over to Baty  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 12:47 pm : link
Will be the first one's complaining when he goes through his first rough stretch. He has very little time in AAA. Nothing wrong with seasoning him on the grill for just a bit more. His time is coming. Soon.
Ruf isn’t worth getting worked up about because I’m gathering  
CooperDash : 3/25/2023 12:48 pm : link
he will see very little playing time. BUT - holding onto him because he OPS’d .900 across 117 games two years ago at age 34 is how really bad decisions are made. That was such an outlier season in an otherwise pretty poor career. Lightning in a bottle.

I’d like to think we could fine ANYONE better for that role but that probably would cost more. Even with injuries, Ruf should not see any meaningful playing time.

I’m more concerned with the Mets FO leaving raging hot minor league players in the minors again while sitting through four months of ineffective play in the pros (looking at you Escobar, lol).

Personally, I think Baty should be starting at 3b.
Final roster IMO  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 12:57 pm : link
1.) Nimmo CF
2.) Marte RF
3.) Lindor SS
4.) Alonso 1B
5.) Vogelbach DH
6.) McNeil 2B
7.) Escobar 3B
8.) Narvaez C
9.) Canha LF

Pham, LG, Ruf, Nido

1.) Verlander
2.) Scherzer
3.) Senga
4.) Carrasco
5.) Peterson

Robertson, Ottavino, Raley, Curtiss, Smith, Nogosek, Santana, Hunter

The Mets could IL Ruf giving Baty another little taste in the majors to start the season. They could also DFA Santana if they really like somebody else like Brigham. I find both of those unlikely.
Baty  
pjcas18 : 3/25/2023 1:27 pm : link
has had a good spring, better than Vientos, both offensively and defensively and better than Escobar. Obviously Escobar has a longer track record so they may know more what they will get with Escobar, but it's not great. Escobar is basically a career average player. Last year at 3B Escobar had -11 DRS so it's not like he's Brooks Robinson over there.

I think even if Baty isn't 100% ready it sends a good message for him to make the team and be the opening day 3B that hard work pays off.

If they send Baty down and call him up in April (not due to injury) then it's all shenanigans because then it's not about development because anyone who believes 2 - 4 weeks in AAA changes anything is crazy.

I just want the players in the lineup who give the Mets the best chance to win. Each day. If the Mets thinks it's Escobar great, but if they think it's probably Baty but send him down for "reasons" then I think its BS. the Mets lost the division by percentage point, an April win would have changed the outcome (all other things being equal obviously)
Hunter  
GF1080 : 3/25/2023 1:28 pm : link
Tommy Hunter has made the team per Dicomo.
The MLB season is a marathon  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 1:31 pm : link
Just like with the pen, if the Mets want extended looks with Nogosek and Santana because they are out of options, even if Brigham or others are slightly better options day 1, they should do so in order to preserve the depth.
They can't give up  
Pete in MD : 3/25/2023 1:33 pm : link
on Ruf. He's my dog's favorite player.
Dylan Bundy has signed a MILB deal with the Mets  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 1:39 pm : link
Could be decent for a spot here and there I guess. 4.6-ish FIP last year.
RE: They can't give up  
ZGiants98 : 3/25/2023 1:39 pm : link
In comment 16075221 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
on Ruf. He's my dog's favorite player.


lol
RE: They can't give up  
Vanzetti : 3/25/2023 3:46 pm : link
In comment 16075221 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
on Ruf. He's my dog's favorite player.


Who is his favorite Giant? Barkley?
Baty has a great future  
Vanzetti : 3/25/2023 3:48 pm : link
But in his brief callup, he did not hit well. Smooth swing but he was not ready for major league pitching.

He will benefit greatly from some time at AAA both with the bat and in the field.
The one signing I don't like is Pham  
Vanzetti : 3/25/2023 3:51 pm : link
Declining skills. Has hit in low 200s the last three years.

And he is a loose cannon. As soon as he does not get playing time, he is going to go off. The only bad move the Mets made this offseason.
RE: Baty  
moze1021 : 3/25/2023 4:15 pm : link
In comment 16075216 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
has had a good spring, better than Vientos, both offensively and defensively and better than Escobar. Obviously Escobar has a longer track record so they may know more what they will get with Escobar, but it's not great. Escobar is basically a career average player. Last year at 3B Escobar had -11 DRS so it's not like he's Brooks Robinson over there.

I think even if Baty isn't 100% ready it sends a good message for him to make the team and be the opening day 3B that hard work pays off.

If they send Baty down and call him up in April (not due to injury) then it's all shenanigans because then it's not about development because anyone who believes 2 - 4 weeks in AAA changes anything is crazy.

I just want the players in the lineup who give the Mets the best chance to win. Each day. If the Mets thinks it's Escobar great, but if they think it's probably Baty but send him down for "reasons" then I think its BS. the Mets lost the division by percentage point, an April win would have changed the outcome (all other things being equal obviously)


Great post...I agree
Roster  
GF1080 : 3/25/2023 9:01 pm : link
Baty and Vientos sent to AAA.
RE: RE: They can't give up  
Pete in MD : 3/25/2023 10:11 pm : link
In comment 16075282 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 16075221 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


on Ruf. He's my dog's favorite player.



Who is his favorite Giant? Barkley?

He can’t decide between Barkley and Shepard.
Annd Baty to AAA…  
ZGiants98 : 3/26/2023 12:44 pm : link
Looking forward to watching him earn his way back…
Disappointing about Baty - I felt that he earned his way on the team  
CooperDash : 3/26/2023 12:53 pm : link
I think it sends a poor message but whatever. Hopefully, if Escobar no-shows again for the first four months of the season, they have the forthright to make the switch and not drag their feet on call-ups like last season.

If Escobar can play at least league average then it would be the best case scenario.
Vogelbach and Ruf  
Sammo85 : 3/26/2023 1:13 pm : link
do not deserve to be on this roster. Both are terrible, have been terrible this spring, and will continue to be terrible. Eppler better not get comfortable in his GM seat.
RE: Vogelbach and Ruf  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/26/2023 1:21 pm : link
In comment 16075645 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
do not deserve to be on this roster. Both are terrible, have been terrible this spring, and will continue to be terrible. Eppler better not get comfortable in his GM seat.

Vogelbach was very productive last year.
Batt wasn’t ready coming into spring  
Shecky : 3/26/2023 1:39 pm : link
And still isn’t. This silliness of outrage that he isn’t on the OD roster is odd. But it happens every year, so it’s expected. The good news is he is damn close, made a ton of progress, WANTS IT, and will get there.

But being out of position and missing your coach repositioning you. Breaking back to third when there’s two outs and thinking there’s one out. Indecisiveness, not being being fully confident of his decisions. Those are little things.
Again, he’s making strides and will continue to do so. Let them bring him up when he is ready. And trust them to make the right decisions.
Can’t wait till Thursday!!!!!!!
I think “outrage” is a strong word to use. Not sure I see anyone  
CooperDash : 3/26/2023 2:38 pm : link
outraged over this, lol. Personally, I feel that Baty gives the Mets a better chance to win than Escobar does. He’s progressed nicely this preseason. I’m okay with watching a good young player work out some kinks at the pro level, especially when the incumbent could very easily be worse. Who knows, I just like watching the kids play, lol.

But we are probably splitting hairs with this one. Hopefully Escobar gives us some in the first half and makes this a moot point.

Should be a fun year.
RE: RE: Vogelbach and Ruf  
Sammo85 : 3/26/2023 3:05 pm : link
In comment 16075653 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 16075645 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


do not deserve to be on this roster. Both are terrible, have been terrible this spring, and will continue to be terrible. Eppler better not get comfortable in his GM seat.


Vogelbach was very productive last year.



He’s a DH who can’t play the field at all, can’t run on the bases and can’t really hit lefties consistently. He’s a platoon DH who isn’t good enough as a hitter and is just a guy you can figure out is feast or famine on fastballs. He got barbecued against good pitching down the stretch. The division teams toyed with him the last few months of the season, and it’s clear the scouting on him is out and clear advantage to the pitchers. He couldn’t adjust. An upgrade isn’t hard. But you have to have a GM with a brain which we unfortunately dont have.
Yeah  
pjcas18 : 3/26/2023 3:31 pm : link
no one is outraged. It's just clear to anyone who watched that Baty outplayed Escobar this Spring.

and to my prior point if Baty gets called up in April you know it's all BS because those things Shecky pointed out are all straightened out in a few weeks? lol, sure. with the warts, Baty is the best option at 3B IMO.

I expected the Wilpon Mets to send the "Baty's" down, I expected the Cohen Mets to start the best player.

Anyway, not the end of the world. Looking forward to real baseball.
RE: Batt wasn’t ready coming into spring  
Vanzetti : 3/26/2023 5:26 pm : link
In comment 16075663 Shecky said:
Quote:
And still isn’t. This silliness of outrage that he isn’t on the OD roster is odd. But it happens every year, so it’s expected. The good news is he is damn close, made a ton of progress, WANTS IT, and will get there.

But being out of position and missing your coach repositioning you. Breaking back to third when there’s two outs and thinking there’s one out. Indecisiveness, not being being fully confident of his decisions. Those are little things.
Again, he’s making strides and will continue to do so. Let them bring him up when he is ready. And trust them to make the right decisions.
Can’t wait till Thursday!!!!!!!


Baty is best on reaction plays when there is no time to think. Like that tremendous play he made behind the bag. But when he has time I see a little hesitation. Same with Maurizio. You don’t want that to evolve into a mental tick.

Plus did two or three extra months in the minors ever hurt anyone?
this may be an unpopular take but if the service time is still  
Eric on Li : 3/26/2023 7:45 pm : link
just a few weeks it makes very little sense to call up right away unless you think the guy is literally already one of the most important players on the team and they are disadvantaged without him. i probably would have done it with alonso in 2019 before we knew how good he was, and if the worst case is like that and baty comes up in a few weeks and goes on to a record breaking roy type year thats not such a bad down side bc if he's that good you get we'll be happy to have an extra year paying him the minimum (and spending an extra 10-20m on someone else).

the decision right now isn't as easy or as important as the decisions they make 2-4-6 weeks from now. hopefully we see good escobar and dh production but if not they cannot drag their feet if the kids are performing in aaa. it's still likely they will struggle whenever they get called up but it's better to get those struggles out of the way asap if the other players arent performing.
Ruf  
GF1080 : 3/27/2023 8:31 am : link
Ruf was DFA'D. Locastro made the team. Both terrible options.
RE: this may be an unpopular take but if the service time is still  
pjcas18 : 3/27/2023 8:40 am : link
In comment 16075782 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
just a few weeks it makes very little sense to call up right away unless you think the guy is literally already one of the most important players on the team and they are disadvantaged without him. i probably would have done it with alonso in 2019 before we knew how good he was, and if the worst case is like that and baty comes up in a few weeks and goes on to a record breaking roy type year thats not such a bad down side bc if he's that good you get we'll be happy to have an extra year paying him the minimum (and spending an extra 10-20m on someone else).

the decision right now isn't as easy or as important as the decisions they make 2-4-6 weeks from now. hopefully we see good escobar and dh production but if not they cannot drag their feet if the kids are performing in aaa. it's still likely they will struggle whenever they get called up but it's better to get those struggles out of the way asap if the other players arent performing.


it depends on the options.

If a kid, in this case Baty, provides a better option to help the team win, on March 30 (or whatever early season day) then they should be in the lineup.

period.

Aaron Boone got it right in his comments to Volpe:

"...you only have 20-something games at AAA...and there's room for development, but in the end I think that development should happen in the big leagues"

Not comparing Volpe and Baty, just saying some things, especially those warts Shecky highlighted can absolutely be fixed in the bigs and IMO should. If, and it's a big if, the Mets think Baty is a better option to win games now than Escobar.

People forget, the Mets lost the division by percentage points, and the April wins count just as much as the September ones. One more April win and the Mets could have won the division just as much as one less September loss.

Anyway, not a huge deal, but this line of thinking to send Baty down to work on stuff seems very old school. I bet the Braves wouldn't send Baty down if he beat out their 3B incumbent and if they did it would be pure financial reasons. But with their aggressive extension approach service time just gets bought out anyway.
Ruf being DFAd  
BigBlue7 : 3/27/2023 8:48 am : link
Locastro expected to get his roster spot
Bench  
GF1080 : 3/27/2023 9:06 am : link
Locastro is Jankowski bad. The margins matter. Not sure why we keep going into the season with these really horrific options at the end of the bench. Even slight upgrades which are still cheap can help the team.

Eppler still hasn't impressed me with any of his moves and it's easy to just throw Cohen's money around.
Didn’t see  
ZGiants98 : 3/27/2023 9:18 am : link
Lacostro making the team, but in the end he serves the same purpose as Ruf. He’s somebody we won’t care about getting 1 start a week while the kids play everyday in AAA.
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner