Azeez Ojulari: Defensive End?

would be a bad idea.

It s all the same. At the moment he is their best pass rusher; availability seems to be his issue.

Big Dex, L.Williams and some other 300lbers

Thibs, Okereke and Ojulari

With 5 DBs.

He is more an Edge....than a true DE

They get around to posting an official one. BBI’s depth chart usually makes more sense.

There are number of good breakdowns online of how Ojulari was deployed last year. In both 2 and 3 man fronts, Ojulari was almost exclusively a stand-up edge pass rusher.

You’ll often see the pass rush specialist (e.g. Ojulari) listed as a DE, and the more versatile EDGE (e.g. Thibodeaux) listed as “Rush” or some variant thereof. Those designations mean pretty much the opposite of what they appear to mean.

In comment 16075097 Big Blue Blogger said:

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You’ll often see the pass rush specialist (e.g. Ojulari) listed as a DE, and the more versatile EDGE (e.g. Thibodeaux) listed as “Rush” or some variant thereof. Those designations mean pretty much the opposite of what they appear to mean.

Exactly. I think the OP is probably better served skipping the depth chart and either re-watching the games or the player break downs and gathering what his responsibilities are. Then debating whether that's the best set of responsibilities.

Even bulked up from last year’s offseason he’s probably near 250 or so. That’s just not DE size in a 2-4-5 or a 3-3-5 or a 3-4-4. He’s been an OLB from the get go. He still is though in Wink’s positionless D you can call him whatever you want. It’s about his role not what you call him.

In comment 16075114 christian said:

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In comment 16075097 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: You’ll often see the pass rush specialist (e.g. Ojulari) listed as a DE, and the more versatile EDGE (e.g. Thibodeaux) listed as “Rush” or some variant thereof. Those designations mean pretty much the opposite of what they appear to mean. Exactly. I think the OP is probably better served skipping the depth chart and either re-watching the games or the player break downs and gathering what his responsibilities are. Then debating whether that's the best set of responsibilities.

I've watched the games and his responsibilities are similar to a 3-4 OLB. The question is whether or not he's the solution.

It is outdated. Eric's depth chart makes more sense.
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/information-pages/new-york-giants-depth-chart/ - ( New Window )

In comment 16075123 US1 Giants said:

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It is outdated. Eric's depth chart makes more sense. http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/information-pages/new-york-giants-depth-chart/ - ( New Window )

Which is why I also mentioned OurLads, which similarly lists Ojulari as a DE.

... So instead of getting involved in the semantical Calisthenics it might be easier to refer to the technique that they line up in.
I you are asking if he's capable of playing with his hand in the dirt, sure, but I don't see him as a 4t or 5t on a regular basis.

and definitely not a prototypical 3-3 DE, that's traditionally a role for Chip Kelly's Oregon kids mold, Buckner and Armstead. Tall 300 LB long limbed DE types.

In comment 16075120 Angel Eyes said:

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I've watched the games and his responsibilities are similar to a 3-4 OLB. The question is whether or not he's the solution.

So it seems like your question isn't about what Ourlads or Giants website calls the position. It's whether he's the right player for the responsibilities asked of him in the defense? Strange way to get there.

But sure, as a part time pass rush specialist, especially if he's healthy, seems to be just fine.

If you went back to the 1940’s and 50’s in a 5 man line he would be a DE.

Don’t overthink this positional designation.

go by Eric's roster list. Not a big deal in this case though.

… is that you don’t want to rely on Ojulari to set the edge a lot. He isn’t built to do it well, and he’s worth more if you keep him fresh to get after the QB. That’s why Jihad Ward is valuable: he’s a limited player, but he’s a good complement to a healthy Ojulari (or would be, if Ojulari could stay healthy).

Ojulari reminds me a little bit of our old friend Markus Golden. A guy who could certainly reach double digit sacks, but simultaneously demonstrate why that's not necessarily a milestone to measure success.

In comment 16075172 christian said:

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Ojulari reminds me a little bit of our old friend Markus Golden. A guy who could certainly reach double digit sacks, but simultaneously demonstrate why that's not necessarily a milestone to measure success.

He does seem more of a compiler vs impact sack like a Thibs
Nothing wrong with that and pretty much what I wanted. A nice threat as your 2nd best ER
I am willing to write off whatever went snowballed with lower body injuries last yrs

He's an edge rusher. He's basically an OLB in a 3-4 defense. But as Wink is fond of saying, this is a positionless defense.

He's not a defensive end, unless you considered Lawrence Taylor a defensive end (which you could make that argument).

In comment 16075123 US1 Giants said:

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It is outdated. Eric's depth chart makes more sense. http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/information-pages/new-york-giants-depth-chart/ - ( New Window )

I struggle with this depth chart because the Giants change in and out of fronts all of the time. But this depth chart is largely based on the one the Giants released in that it shows five DBs.

toughest guy to peg on the depth chart is not Azeez or Thibodeaux. It's Ward.

Azeez and KT are basically the 2020s version of Banks and LT.

Carl regularly covered tight ends, and was very good at it.

On the other hand, not many TEs ran a 4.5 in 1987.

In comment 16075266 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Carl regularly covered tight ends, and was very good at it. On the other hand, not many TEs ran a 4.5 in 1987.

Agree, but I'm mainly talking about fronts. When Strahan was a 4-3 defensive end, the DCs would sometimes have him drop into coverage too. (He actually made a great pick against the Redskins for a TD). But that was not the norm for him.

I've argued in the past that LT was basically a glorified standup DE and Leonard Marshall was a DT rather than an end.

In a nutshell, when I look at Azeez from a physical standpoint, nothing about him says "DE" to me. He's a pass-rushing OLB who usually does not have his hand in the dirt.

The biggest thing Banks would do wasn't pass rush or coverage, but he set the edge by kicking the crap out of tight ends.

memories of Banks was just toying with the defensive ends of the 49ers, giving Roger Craig no place to go.

tight ends (not defensive ends)

on the front 7. A DE in the size frame mentioned above and a OLB to play where Ojulari is. He is best suited in situations imv.

When we face the teams who have the good OL's and the run is a big part of their offense they need to be able to match up better.

Since we are in the NFCE this is often. The NFC has also been traditionally the conference with the more balanced and physical offenses.

In comment 16075256 Eric from BBI said:

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He's an edge rusher. He's basically an OLB in a 3-4 defense. But as Wink is fond of saying, this is a positionless defense. He's not a defensive end, unless you considered Lawrence Taylor a defensive end (which you could make that argument).

Well Eric, I agree with you that he's an OLB in a 3-4, but I disagree with the designation that he's a DE. As far as edge rushers are concerned I don't like the term, given how nebulous it is (essentially that means lumping in players ranging from Derrick Thomas to Reggie White; both rushed against the offensive tackle but had very different playing styles and were physically very different).

In comment 16075326 Angel Eyes said:

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In comment 16075256 Eric from BBI said: Quote: He's an edge rusher. He's basically an OLB in a 3-4 defense. But as Wink is fond of saying, this is a positionless defense. He's not a defensive end, unless you considered Lawrence Taylor a defensive end (which you could make that argument). Well Eric, I agree with you that he's an OLB in a 3-4, but I disagree with the designation that he's a DE. As far as edge rushers are concerned I don't like the term, given how nebulous it is (essentially that means lumping in players ranging from Derrick Thomas to Reggie White; both rushed against the offensive tackle but had very different playing styles and were physically very different).

You just answered your own question. In a 3-4 he's an OLB...he's not going to play inside, so why question if hes a defensive end? I don't understand your reasoning.


Also, the EDGE term is a thousand percent more appropriate today than it ever was in the era you are referring. The game is different, so the term makes sense. You can not like it, and it doesn't have to apply to the 80s, but in today's game it makes sense.. Teams just do not run vanilla base defense vs the I formation like they did in 1985.

over where he is listed. He's an edge guy - he'll stand up in some formations/plays, and pay put his hand down in others. Giants seem to use him mostly to rush the passer (vs Thibs from what I saw of play breakdowns last year, he had more mixed cover etc). Really we play hybrid D's - there may only be 2 'DL' on a certain play, vs 6 'DB'...and often 'LB's may fill any roll, cover one down, run stuffing the next, pass rush the next. I don't think it means he'll line up like a 4-3 DE most plays; he'll probably rush the QB more often than other assignments tho.

In comment 16075358 Cenotaph said:

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over where he is listed. He's an edge guy - he'll stand up in some formations/plays, and pay put his hand down in others. Giants seem to use him mostly to rush the passer (vs Thibs from what I saw of play breakdowns last year, he had more mixed cover etc). Really we play hybrid D's - there may only be 2 'DL' on a certain play, vs 6 'DB'...and often 'LB's may fill any roll, cover one down, run stuffing the next, pass rush the next. I don't think it means he'll line up like a 4-3 DE most plays; he'll probably rush the QB more often than other assignments tho.

Well, is he the best guy to be playing DE? I'm not sure; he can get around the tackle and chase plays down, but a lot of times he was getting turned around by the tackle or knocked out of position. Teams tended to run to his side whenever he was on the field this year.

The term edge developed as part of the college draft process to group college defensive ends and outside linebackers pass rushers who had similar assignments and who:

1) would aren't tasked with much inside gap responsibilities nor

2) much coverage responsibilities

The defensive ends of the 80s and 90s would not be classified as edge rushers today.

of rushing the passer has increased in the modern game. You may have to trade off a bit of a guy who's better against the run (i.e. a Jihad Ward) for a guy who can get to the Qb. Azeez seems to have a nose for rushing the QB, and we did seem to limit his snaps to a certain extent last year, likely to focus on that. If they run into a bad playcall, he may not be the best option - but it's a tradeoff as guys who can really get after the QB are quite valued, and teams will often live with some shortcomings against the run.

Strahan in his prime types are rare, who can rush the QB and defend the run pretty well.

In comment 16075257 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16075123 US1 Giants said: Quote: It is outdated. Eric's depth chart makes more sense. http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/information-pages/new-york-giants-depth-chart/ - ( New Window ) I struggle with this depth chart because the Giants change in and out of fronts all of the time. But this depth chart is largely based on the one the Giants released in that it shows five DBs.

Is Oshane Ximines still with the team? I may have missed him getting released. He’s not on Eric’s depth chart. Just wondering…

In comment 16075387 Adirondack GMen said:

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In comment 16075257 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16075123 US1 Giants said: Quote: It is outdated. Eric's depth chart makes more sense. http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/information-pages/new-york-giants-depth-chart/ - ( New Window ) I struggle with this depth chart because the Giants change in and out of fronts all of the time. But this depth chart is largely based on the one the Giants released in that it shows five DBs. Is Oshane Ximines still with the team? I may have missed him getting released. He’s not on Eric’s depth chart. Just wondering…

I believe Ximines is a free agent because his rookie contract expired (he was drafted the same time as Jones, Lawrence, Baker, and Love).

If the question is will Ojulari develop into an 800 snap a year, two-way defensive mainstay -- the answer is probably no.

If the question is will Ojulari be the part time pass rusher he's been the last two years, and show up on the website depth chart as a defensive end -- the answer is probably yes.

he just needs to stay healthy. when he is, he's a force. Just never was healthy for any amount of time.

In comment 16075379 christian said:

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The term edge developed as part of the college draft process to group college defensive ends and outside linebackers pass rushers who had similar assignments and who: 1) would aren't tasked with much inside gap responsibilities nor 2) much coverage responsibilities The defensive ends of the 80s and 90s would not be classified as edge rushers today.

Sure many of them would. LT and many 3-4 OLBs of the 1980s, 1990s (and before) would be called edge rushers today.

are not included on the depth chart.

In comment 16075508 Eric from BBI said:

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The defensive ends of the 80s and 90s would not be classified as edge rushers today. Sure many of them would. LT and many 3-4 OLBs of the 1980s, 1990s (and before) would be called edge rushers today.

I'm not sure what you're saying. I completely agree the pass rush outside linebackers of that era like Thomas and LT would be grouped as edge players.

I was addressing the OP's assertion Reggie White would be conflated as an edge player, which isn't true.

I'm pretty sure Reggie White and Leonard Marshall would be viewed much the same way Leonard Williams is today. A defensive end in a 3-4, which is group as a defensive lineman.

I misread what you wrote. My bad.

In comment 16075527 Eric from BBI said:

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I misread what you wrote. My bad.

I should have replied directly to his comment.

This whole edge/DE/OLB is a little goofy to me.

When I think edge rusher, I assume it means pass rush specialist, but I don't think that's true.

I assume the general consensus means DE in 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4, who lines up outside of the tackle.