I am going to take the optimistic view looking at this roster and how the likes of Daboll/Kafka and Wink were able to maximize the talents of all types of players on the roster.
2022 vs 2023 -Better or Worse:
Offense
QB- Better. Daniel Jones back after proving he was a high level QB last year despite the 32nd ranked pass pro and very below avaersge performing WR much of the year. This year the line just by virtue of better health, key rookies maturing should be improved. Receivers also improved and this will be year 2 in this system for many including Jones which will also lead to improvement in itself.
WR- Slightly better. Hodgins for a full year vs half year and 2nd year in our system. Slayton re-signed , more confident and 2nd year in the system. Upgraded depth in Campbell who could be a bit of a sneaky gem if he can stay healthy. Crowder nice little upside gamble and much better than the likes of Sills and potentially James too. No doubt it still needs improvement though and they probably go high in the draft for a high upside guy.
TE- Significantly better. Waller is a top 5 TE when healthy. Bellinger will be a 2nd year player. Added interesting depth.
RB- Same. Barkley was Barkley last year. Breida is back. Probably will add in draft a bruiser back to take some beating off Barkley but right now its pretty similar to last year which is not a bad thing.
OL- Better. No doubt this is an optimistic view but one right or wrong I think the Giants brass are takong with this group. They spent a high 1,3 and 5 last year on the OL. They are going to give their high 1 and 3 a fair opportunity to start this year.
What they are probably counting on:
RT 2023 Neal >>> 2022 Neal because it is his 2nd year and he is extremely talented and they have identified what his weakenesses are and are working to fix it.
RG 2023 Ezeudu > 2022 RG because he is an extremelysmart player who flashed last year , has great feet and should be ready to take over here in year 2.
OC 2023 Bredeson > 2022 Feliciano. Feliciano was quite Borderline. Bredesonis been low key impressive wherever we have played him.
LG 2023 Glowinski = 2022 Glowinski. Average OG who hopefully imrpoves a bit in year 2 here.
LT 2023 Thomas = 2022 Thomas. Thomas is a beast.
Defense
Edge- Better. Our top 5 pick in Thibodeaux flashed bigtime and is now a 2nd year player. Ojulari enters year 3 and will probably adjust his training regimen as last year's muscle gain was probably too extreme (like Barkley of years past). Hopefully he'll be healthy throughout the year. Jihad is our Edge setter. Since our top two pass rushers are a bit smaller or thinner framed I would think a bigger bodied Edge setter with higher pass rush upside than Jihad is a likely high priority.
DL- Better. Leo and Dex and no one else. This led to extremely high usage and some wear and tear on Leo especially. This year it is year 2 for them in Winks scheme and we added Nacho and are looking to add ATwan Robinson. A couple guys returning from injury as well.
CB- Same or slightly better. Currently its a lot of the same cast with the Detroit CB as a possible slight improvement over the Moreau. There is some upside here with a 2nd year Flott and 3rd year A Rob coming back. Highly likely we add one high in the draft as well and/or an established vet like Marcus Peters or Rock Ya Sin as we have no one who is really proven here after Adoree Jackson.
ILB- Significantly Better. Okereke was one of our biggest splash additions. McFadden and Beavers both return as 2nd year players. Coverage in zone and M2M should be greatly improved on the 2nd level with Okereke.
S- Same or slightly worse. Love was low key pretty good for us. Xavier returns. Will their new additions here come close or equal to what love did?
Conclusion: What does this all add up to? Still to be fully determined but if they come out of remaining FA and/or the draft with some quality options at WR,CB,IOL and then possibly further depth at RB, Edge and DT...this team will be ready to seriously compete within the division and as well within the NFC as soon as this year.
I think we grab a #1 WR with our first pick and then spend the rest of the draft shoring up our IOL, ILB, and DB positions.
Most likely a late round, developmental guy
- At least 1 more RB ... though the chances of sticking will be slim
- A WR .. but when ?
- Definitely a Center, 2nd or 3rd round
- DL ... could see a cluster in the late rounds
- LB ... no longer a real need, but a mid rounder for depth and development
- CB ... I think in the 1st round, a gamecock.
- S ... depth
I can see us having a 2018 Buffalo like season. The '17 Bills-first season under Beane & McDermott-shocked the NFL world and made the postseason. In 2018, Buffalo missed the postseason but then took off in '19 & have won 10 plus games these last 4 seasons.
I think we grab a #1 WR with our first pick and then spend the rest of the draft shoring up our IOL, ILB, and DB positions.
Re: OL, everyone is focusing on IOL. I’m equally concerned about OT. Neal likely takes it up a level, but the lack of progress in-season is concerning, not to mention injury potential for him and AT. Backup plan is Peart? I see a swing tackle as same priority as IOL.
Eric mentioned this that the lack of OL interest this offseason is telling. I agree. They have a bunch of high investment picks on this roster at OL and for better or worse they are going to give them a chance it seems.
Thomas- 4th overall pick
Glowinski- $20M contract
Ezeudu- High 3rd rd pick
Neal- 7th overall pick
I certainly acknowledge it absolutely could go very bad if Neal and/or Ezeudu do not live up to their draft status.
I am hoping for a top 3 or 4 round pick to add to the group as well.
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Mmmm I disagree, but that’s cool.
I think we grab a #1 WR with our first pick and then spend the rest of the draft shoring up our IOL, ILB, and DB positions.
Re: OL, everyone is focusing on IOL. I’m equally concerned about OT. Neal likely takes it up a level, but the lack of progress in-season is concerning, not to mention injury potential for him and AT. Backup plan is Peart? I see a swing tackle as same priority as IOL.
No doubt this is very true but I think they think Ezeudu is the guy that could back up RT here.
I should have perhaps further clarified this as more how I think the Giants are thinking. Their almost zero interest in OL this offseason and letting Gates and Feliciano go is telling.
I am in total agreement that if Neal doesn't show significant improvement and Ezeudu doesnt show promise at OG the line could actually be anywhere from worse to just a little better too. This line last year was like a 1.5- 2 on a scale of 1 to 10 in pass pro. If they become a 3 or 4 that IS better however that is still not good.
I think Giants are banking on what most teams bank on if they pick a tackle top 10 and thats significant improvement in year 2. Feliciano's performance will not be hard for a guy like Bredeson to improve at least a little upon I would think though.
What color are yours?
I think the poster was asking for opinions, not crystal ball, tarot card, premonitions or facts. Play along, it's fun.
Link - ( New Window )
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are your glasses.
What color are yours?
clear
I don't know someone can reasonably say QB has improved. How? I thought Daniel Jones played about as good as he could last year. I see no indication or basis for opinion he will be better in 2023.
OL - has been beaten to death - saying the OL is better today is not just rose colored glasses it's borderline delusional.
WR - yes WR is better than 2022, but that's a tallest midget contest compared to the 2022 Giants WRs. Also some revisionist history since going in to 2022 no one fully grasped how bad Golladay was or how disinterested Toney was or that Wan'Dale Robinson would tear his ACL. So the WR position was not as bad in April 2022 as it wound up. So comparing April to April it's not as pronounced an upgrade as people think. It's still a terrible position for the Giants.
TE - yes, if Waller is healthy TE is better.
the rest is a wash basically so far.
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In comment 16075203 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
are your glasses.
What color are yours?
clear
I don't know someone can reasonably say QB has improved. How? I thought Daniel Jones played about as good as he could last year. I see no indication or basis for opinion he will be better in 2023.
OL - has been beaten to death - saying the OL is better today is not just rose colored glasses it's borderline delusional.
WR - yes WR is better than 2022, but that's a tallest midget contest compared to the 2022 Giants WRs. Also some revisionist history since going in to 2022 no one fully grasped how bad Golladay was or how disinterested Toney was or that Wan'Dale Robinson would tear his ACL. So the WR position was not as bad in April 2022 as it wound up. So comparing April to April it's not as pronounced an upgrade as people think. It's still a terrible position for the Giants.
TE - yes, if Waller is healthy TE is better.
the rest is a wash basically so far.
DJ's performance may not improve but his production with Waller, Campbell a 2nd year Hodgins probably will.
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In comment 16075203 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
are your glasses.
What color are yours?
clear
I don't know someone can reasonably say QB has improved. How? I thought Daniel Jones played about as good as he could last year. I see no indication or basis for opinion he will be better in 2023.
OL - has been beaten to death - saying the OL is better today is not just rose colored glasses it's borderline delusional.
WR - yes WR is better than 2022, but that's a tallest midget contest compared to the 2022 Giants WRs. Also some revisionist history since going in to 2022 no one fully grasped how bad Golladay was or how disinterested Toney was or that Wan'Dale Robinson would tear his ACL. So the WR position was not as bad in April 2022 as it wound up. So comparing April to April it's not as pronounced an upgrade as people think. It's still a terrible position for the Giants.
TE - yes, if Waller is healthy TE is better.
the rest is a wash basically so far.
Well good. At least you gave your reasons...
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Mmmm I disagree, but that’s cool.
I think we grab a #1 WR with our first pick and then spend the rest of the draft shoring up our IOL, ILB, and DB
Re: OL, everyone is focusing on IOL. I’m equally concerned about OT. Neal likely takes it up a level, but the lack of progress in-season is concerning, not to mention injury potential for him and AT. Backup plan is Peart? I see a swing tackle as same priority as IOL.
No doubt this is very true but I think they think Ezeudu is the guy that could back up RT here.
Yes, but if Ezeudu can only play one position at a time. It’s likely he’s a projected starter inside. So yes, if he’s a tackle, then yes, IOL is a greater need.
So if you think the OL is going to be bad, you are implicitly saying Daboll and Schoen did a bad job.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
On top of that, young guys develop all the time and they're insinuating Neal and Ezeudu won't develop or make any jump at all.
So if you think the OL is going to be bad, you are implicitly saying Daboll and Schoen did a bad job.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
Finally some proper perspective here. No one is saying that this OL might not still be terrible but if that is the case then it is quite likely Schoens top 7 overall pick and high 3rd round pick busted.
I'm going to be optimistic considering how well the organization seems to be running now under Schoen/Daboll.
We have top 10 picks at the 2 tackle spots. We have a 20M RG and a high 3rd at the other OG spot. Bredeson has played well enough wherever we have played him. Most these guys unless you totally lost faith year 1 need to be given at least another season to see what they have. The range this OL can end up at is quite wide. But the expectation is a big improvement from Neal and Ezeudu in year 2 like well drafted players often do.
On top of that, young guys develop all the time and they're insinuating Neal and Ezeudu won't develop or make any jump at all.
I saw a picture of Neal in a new 2 point stance he is learning from Willie Anderson who is working with him this offseason. I can't believe how impatient some fans are with Neal. The transition to the NFL from college is not easy even if you are as big as Neal.
This kid is a hard worker and he will do everything in his power to get better.
I love it how guys can do a detailed analysis of a team but not know what position a player mans, can’t spell a player’s name or don’t know left from right.
That is what sets teams apart...depth.
and we had bad depth
They now know the strengths and weaknesses of all the players on the team--they didn't last year. Now they are in a position to know what needs to be fixed--they didn't last year, and now they have some cap room to address FA reasonably, which they didn't last year, and finally, they can plan for a draft in which they can sepecifically look for players who can fit into the Giants' needs and schemes, which they also could not do last year. This is great compared to last year.
As for the quality of the individual players compared to last year? I have no idea, except that many of them now have a year of experience with the new system. So that's a plus.
just like some of us did not give Joe Judge the benefit of the doubt as head coach and others jumped in with both feet positive the Giants had their coach of the next decade plus (someone who also had no track record of success).
No idea why restraint or cautious optimism is not ok and is seemed as being hater or is viewed as negative.
WR is arguably similar if slightly improved so far, and with the # of signings it doesn't seem they are really focusing on a high drat pick here (tho they may). Receivers overall should be better with a healthy Waller - if he discovers his form of a few years ago that's a huge win. ILB is obviously much improved by Okreke, and OLB should improve with another year/health of Azeez/Thibs. S may be a slight step back; but Love was a mid round pick who developed and we have similar guys there, plus X. But really I think a good bit is looking towards improvement from our younger guys, and better depth.
They now know the strengths and weaknesses of all the players on the team--they didn't last year. Now they are in a position to know what needs to be fixed--they didn't last year, and now they have some cap room to address FA reasonably, which they didn't last year, and finally, they can plan for a draft in which they can sepecifically look for players who can fit into the Giants' needs and schemes, which they also could not do last year. This is great compared to last year.
As for the quality of the individual players compared to last year? I have no idea, except that many of them now have a year of experience with the new system. So that's a plus.
More good perspective. We cam speculate that if they evaluated and drafted well many of these high picks from last year should be vastly improved: Thibs, Neal, Flott, Ezuedu, Bellinger and you hope to hit on a couple lower picks like McKethan, Beavers, McFadden and Benton.
We also saw a pretty targeted FA where the looked to shore up some of our biggest identified weaknesses.
The team in theory should be at least slightly to moderately improved depending on some of the factors we've discussed above.
Absolutely
I had this weird dream where the Giants actually not only made the playoffs but actually won a game when they got there. But they are obviously not a contending team so yeah, must have been one helluva dream.
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realize Schoen has never done this before, so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from some of us (at least me- speaking for myself) - until he successfully builds a contending team.
I had this weird dream where the Giants actually not only made the playoffs but actually won a game when they got there. But they are obviously not a contending team so yeah, must have been one helluva dream.
In this dream of yours, did the GM bring the most of those impactful players onto the roster, or were the bulk of them holdovers from the prior regime and coaching was maybe the most influential factor for that playoff trip since the overwhelming majority of impactful players were already on the roster?
did your dream provide details or no, just a story?
I can see us having a 2018 Buffalo like season. The '17 Bills-first season under Beane & McDermott-shocked the NFL world and made the postseason. In 2018, Buffalo missed the postseason but then took off in '19 & have won 10 plus games these last 4 seasons.
These Giants kind of remind me of when Trotz took over the Islanders and they overachieved for back-to-back years.
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realize Schoen has never done this before, so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from some of us (at least me- speaking for myself) - until he successfully builds a contending team.
I had this weird dream where the Giants actually not only made the playoffs but actually won a game when they got there. But they are obviously not a contending team so yeah, must have been one helluva dream.
That team was not contending for the Super Bowl. Please stop deluding yourself.
The Eagles beat them three times, and handily when it mattered.
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In comment 16075316 pjcas18 said:
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realize Schoen has never done this before, so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from some of us (at least me- speaking for myself) - until he successfully builds a contending team.
I had this weird dream where the Giants actually not only made the playoffs but actually won a game when they got there. But they are obviously not a contending team so yeah, must have been one helluva dream.
That team was not contending for the Super Bowl. Please stop deluding yourself.
The Eagles beat them three times, and handily when it mattered.
Is it not possible for the eagles to take a step back (after losing multiple players and the super bowl loser thing) and for the Giants to take a step or 2 forward?
It happens to some teams every year.
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In comment 16075414 John In CO said:
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In comment 16075316 pjcas18 said:
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realize Schoen has never done this before, so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from some of us (at least me- speaking for myself) - until he successfully builds a contending team.
I had this weird dream where the Giants actually not only made the playoffs but actually won a game when they got there. But they are obviously not a contending team so yeah, must have been one helluva dream.
That team was not contending for the Super Bowl. Please stop deluding yourself.
The Eagles beat them three times, and handily when it mattered.
Is it not possible for the eagles to take a step back (after losing multiple players and the super bowl loser thing) and for the Giants to take a step or 2 forward?
It happens to some teams every year.
Sean McVay on line 2
Where has this team gotten clearly worse? I can see a couple units as potentially status quo or maybe a touch worse if BOTH Neal and Ezeudu bomb....but aside from that its improvements in many areas due to FA and also due to a big draft class of rookies likely improving too.