He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
He has absolutely no leverage now in negotiations.
Because he is Mara’s favorite I can see a 3 year deal at close to $10 million per year with about $15 million guaranteed.
Schoen certainly didn’t shop hungry in this negotiation with Barkley.
BTW, with a deep talented RB class in the draft not surprised if they select one in round 4. Eric Gray is intriguing in the 4th.
He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Wrong. His shoulder mostly affected hos game the second half of the year
Giants have zero reason to offer him a long term deal. Thankfully he didnt take the offer during the season. Franchise him this year and if he has a good year do it again next year and let him go after that. A long term deal would be bad business. The running back market continues to plummet
he’s getting $10m no matter what and if the offer was $20m guaranteed over 3 years I’d probably turn that down too. Outside of injury Barkley will either get $12m on the tag next year too or sign a good deal as a UFA.
On the other side of the coin I’m glad Schoen pulled it. He’s worrying about the rest of the team and comfortable paying Barkley on the tag. Works for me either way.
In light of how the RB market shook out. It is news, as it is possible he had a standing offer on the table given his reputation with Mara, the locker room and fans.
Barkley is good. He seems like a good guy. He's fun to watch. I WANT him to stay with the Giants and I really will be sad to watch him play for a different team.
That said, the inner dialogue in my head keeps looking at what other RBs are getting paid, Barkley's injury history, and thinking 'oh god no.'
So, Fanboi - Resign the man!
Arm Chair GM - Let him play on the tag, draft a RB in the first three rounds and assuming he plays well as Barkley's back up, be prepared to move on next offseason.
isn't far behind Lamar Jackson right now in terms of market value and negotiation delusion.
The Giants offer IMO at this point is ridiculously over-generous. There's no way Barkley will live up to it.
They're right to pull it as no other team will offer a 3 yr deal with guarantees above what Giants have.
We don’t know anything about the giants offer outside of it being a 3 year deal and around $13.5m per. If 40% of that is guaranteed, which is in line with top of the market percentages for RBs, why would Barkley accept that when he’s making $10.1 now with a 120% increase coming if tagged again?
Unless Barkley is getting $22m guaranteed from the Giants he’s correct for turning it down from a financial standpoint.
Thought I read recently that the Giants had a 3 year offer on the table and increased the money to around $12.5 per. But, Barkley rejected the offer asking for a 4th year. Is that the basic disagreement ? If it is, it’s an easy turn down.
He will make a fair offer to get the extension done, but you are NOT going to shop his offer. If you don’t take it fine he is moving on and the offer is pulled. He is showing that he is stubborn and willing to walk away even when the player comes crawling back at a discount to what he originally offered.
He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Yup. I'm hoping he doesn't sign his tag. May as well go all the way. We shouldn't offer him any type of long-term deal. Tag-tag, AT MOST. But ideally, we cut ties now, we'll be better off for it in the long run.
Tiki Barber retired mid season as a FU to the Giants, and he’s the example for a Giant for life, over guys like Osi and Tuck just because they played elsewhere for a couple of years? LMAO
That’s what happens with an owner busy sucking up to the media so he can control the narrative. The only reason Barber gets mentioned in this context is he’s in the media.
This does SB a disservice too. “We really want you to stay, so the only thing that can prevent that is your greed”. That’s disingenuous.
Why does Mara insist on making these statements publicly? Puts the GM in a tough spot, pisses off the player for being portrayed as greedy (as is evident in the comments here), what good comes out of it actually?
If Mara was genuine, he’d say that to SB privately and keep it at that.
Barkley is good. He seems like a good guy. He's fun to watch. I WANT him to stay with the Giants and I really will be sad to watch him play for a different team.
That said, the inner dialogue in my head keeps looking at what other RBs are getting paid, Barkley's injury history, and thinking 'oh god no.'
So, Fanboi - Resign the man!
Arm Chair GM - Let him play on the tag, draft a RB in the first three rounds and assuming he plays well as Barkley's back up, be prepared to move on next offseason.
Tiki Barber retired mid season as a FU to the Giants, and he’s the example for a Giant for life, over guys like Osi and Tuck just because they played elsewhere for a couple of years? LMAO
That’s what happens with an owner busy sucking up to the media so he can control the narrative. The only reason Barber gets mentioned in this context is he’s in the media.
This does SB a disservice too. “We really want you to stay, so the only thing that can prevent that is your greed”. That’s disingenuous.
Why does Mara insist on making these statements publicly? Puts the GM in a tough spot, pisses off the player for being portrayed as greedy (as is evident in the comments here), what good comes out of it actually?
If Mara was genuine, he’d say that to SB privately and keep it at that.
Plan A: Make good offers to Barkley and Love, and if they don't take them, move on to Plan B, namely using that money to sign other players.
Plan A: Try and trade for a WR (Jeudy, etc.). But if you can't, then move to Plan B, which is trading for Waller and signing Slayton, Campbell, and Smith.
Good for him.
I completely agree that both Barkley and Love overvalued their worth in the FA market. Because of our dearth of offensive weapons, I don't see Schoen trading Barkley, so the most likely scenario is that he plays on the FT this year and leaves at the end of the season.
Yeah, agreed. I wonder what Schoen is trying to achieve. Build his cred around the league?
The upshot is good. We should never give Barkley a long term contract.
Schoen is establishing his modus operandi regarding early contract offers and what agents should expect when they turn them down.
After the Jones negotiations, it’s important for Scheon to make it clear that if a player refuses to agree to what he believes is a far offer they cannot expect a better offer down the road.
If he doesn’t draw a hard line when he can he’ll been seen as a pushover and that can’t happen.
Barkley should fire his agent and try again.
I don't know if a contract is there to be made anymore
RB market corrected sharply. The best thing for both parties may be the tag. You'd have to guarantee at least 23M for it to be worth it for Barkley and I don't see the Giants going there.
do something like 3 and 30 with 20 or a little more guaranteed. If he has another good year we probably don't wanna walk away but we also don't want his cap # at 14 next year.
... netted Carolina a late 2, 3, and 4 - and I believe he still had a year or two on his Contract. (And, while I like Barkley, McCaffrey has had the better NFL career.)
Seems like that would be the ceiling in a trade... but if the Giants did trade him a team looking to acquire him could be just as interested in Josh Jacobs or Tony Pollard who are probably just as available.
Honestly I would be surprised if someone offered the Giants a significant amount in trade given his contract status, age, and injury history.
is handing out crazy contracts this year. Whether its a hangover from Cleveland Groper signing or owners might be aware of negative economic indicators, who knows.
It is business. try negotiating with any union or person in a union. You make an offer, if they come back with something different and you don't agree, your original offer is not there. You are in essence starting from scratch, but both negotiating teams now know where the others stand.
He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Wrong. His shoulder mostly affected hos game the second half of the year
If that is true that is another good reason to tag him and not offer multi year deal .
Barkley would get a lot more than that IMO. Don’t let a single complete good season behind a top tier OL fool you. Sanders will regress this year in all likelihood and the gap in talent between him and Barkley (assuming both are healthy) will be obvious.
Everyone should stop looking at the yearly salary as well, and that’s all anyone is quoting in this thread.
we can’t replace his production in one offseason, there’s no long term commitment, and it gives us the right to tag again (and trade).
Barkley is much better than Sanders, IMO. That OL is dominant and is clouding perception.
The point is we may have been able to bring SB back on a multi-year deal much cheaper than any of us expected if he was allowed to test the market. The market has spoken loudly - RBs are as fungible as ever.
Further, I'm just not buying this theory that if we lost Barkley to another team, we wouldn't be able to find options to replace most of his production.
As to your point about trading SB, it's a decent one. But we probably missed the opportunity to get optimal value. The older he gets and the more work he gets, Barkley's value will depreciate even more.
we can’t replace his production in one offseason, there’s no long term commitment, and it gives us the right to tag again (and trade).
Barkley is much better than Sanders, IMO. That OL is dominant and is clouding perception.
The point is we may have been able to bring SB back on a multi-year deal much cheaper than any of us expected if he was allowed to test the market. The market has spoken loudly - RBs are as fungible as ever.
Further, I'm just not buying this theory that if we lost Barkley to another team, we wouldn't be able to find options to replace most of his production.
As to your point about trading SB, it's a decent one. But we probably missed the opportunity to get optimal value. The older he gets and the more work he gets, Barkley's value will depreciate even more.
I tend to agree - given how little money has gone out generally, and to RBs specifically, it's hard to believe that any team would have offered Barkley a monster contract that the Giants just couldn't match (if they wanted to - and if they lost him to someone offering a big deal, they'd get a compensatory pick at least).
to 25, I would seriously consider removing the tag and letting SB be a FA and using that $10 mil in cap space on other priorities.
Even if that happened, which I doubt, I don't see the Giants taking Robinson.
Taking Robinson would prevent him from dropping to Dallas, who would LOVE to draft this guy. You could then groom him to take over Barkley's spot after next year (I would hold on to SB for one more year, under the tag).
That's a win/win, in my book. Hurting your rival, and setting up for a serious Playoff Run in 2024.
The market for RBs is dropping big time. Zeke would be lucky to sign for 3M this year.
Barkley getting 10M is more than the market. I doubt any team would sign SB for 10M a year except us.
I disagree, I think numerous teams would sign him for 10 million / season.
Some of you really grossly undervalue what he brings.
Look at what Miles Sanders got
Imagine directly comparing Miles Sanders, behind a greatly superior line, to Barkley.
Barkley is a gamebreaker. 10 million is a bargain. I'm all for limiting the contract length, but other than that it's pure folly to undervalue him that badly.
I'd let Saquon know he's being released after next year
There for the taking. It’s a negotiating ploy. I don’t want them to sign a big contract with Barkley but I bet it happens.
Doubt it. This isn't just about Barkley. Schoen has to show his willingness to be firm in contract negotiations. He'll be in these battles his entire tenure.
Maybe the next offer for a particular player is accepted because they see that Schoen is willing to pull an offer if the market dictates.
He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Yup. I'm hoping he doesn't sign his tag. May as well go all the way. We shouldn't offer him any type of long-term deal. Tag-tag, AT MOST. But ideally, we cut ties now, we'll be better off for it in the long run.
No reason to cut ties now. We have the money to pay him the tag number, why would we cut ties now when he will be a valuable player next year? I'm good going year to year but I see no reason to cut bait with him right now, that would just be plain old dumb.
He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Wrong. His shoulder mostly affected hos game the second half of the year
Last I checked, RBs need their legs much more than their shoulders. I recall Hampton playing like a beast when his shoulder was practically falling off.
that tells me Barkleys pay this year isn’t a concern. Plenty of overpaid players across the league, and I’d rather overpay a cheap position than an expensive one.
mis-calculated the RB market. If they knew the offers were going to be this low, then I doubt they put the tag on Barkley.
What’s the incentive? I know all anyone cares about is money but sometimes you need to prioritize the player, the culture and the production and a 1 year deal is perfectly fine for that. You can treat every player as a line item.
mis-calculated the RB market. If they knew the offers were going to be this low, then I doubt they put the tag on Barkley.
What’s the incentive? I know all anyone cares about is money but sometimes you need to prioritize the player, the culture and the production and a 1 year deal is perfectly fine for that. You can treat every player as a line item.
I have some experience at doing this sort of thing.
I am the head of technology at my company. I have a budget (think of it like a cap). I have employees, contractors, vendors for cloud, software, etc.
I can tell you from first hand experience that they are all line items. And you have to decide which are the most valuable to you and pay those, the rest, negotiate hard or walk. You have to be very unemotional about it.
in sports where there are tons of variables that are separate from a corporate employee you have to take many things into consideration not just the financials. If the only thing you care about is money then you won’t be a successful GM.
Schoen has to take care of the cap but he also has to add talent and sometimes those objectives clash. You can’t always pick budget safety - there’s times where you need to overpay talent (which is virtually all of free agency). “Overspending” a couple million for 1 year is a perfectly fine way to secure production, continuity and a whole bunch of other categories.
Yeah, agreed. I wonder what Schoen is trying to achieve. Build his cred around the league?
The upshot is good. We should never give Barkley a long term contract.
Schoen is establishing his modus operandi regarding early contract offers and what agents should expect when they turn them down.
After the Jones negotiations, it’s important for Scheon to make it clear that if a player refuses to agree to what he believes is a far offer they cannot expect a better offer down the road.
If he doesn’t draw a hard line when he can he’ll been seen as a pushover and that can’t happen.
isn't far behind Lamar Jackson right now in terms of market value and negotiation delusion.
The Giants offer IMO at this point is ridiculously over-generous. There's no way Barkley will live up to it.
They're right to pull it as no other team will offer a 3 yr deal with guarantees above what Giants have.
We don’t know anything about the giants offer outside of it being a 3 year deal and around $13.5m per. If 40% of that is guaranteed, which is in line with top of the market percentages for RBs, why would Barkley accept that when he’s making $10.1 now with a 120% increase coming if tagged again?
Unless Barkley is getting $22m guaranteed from the Giants he’s correct for turning it down from a financial standpoint.
Now rescind the tag.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
Now rescind the tag.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
Now rescind the tag.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
But I think that's just wishful thinking.
Or we want the player? He already pulled the plug on Love, and he pulled the offer on Barkley because he’s got the leverage. Pulling the tag means we don’t want him.
Now rescind the tag.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
But I think that's just wishful thinking.
Or we want the player? He already pulled the plug on Love, and he pulled the offer on Barkley because he’s got the leverage. Pulling the tag means we don’t want him.
Pulling the tag means Giants don't want him at 10 mil. I doubt that happens given Mara's love for SB
markets are dynamic but imo a deal is in the interest of both sides
the giants have leverage right now because its the offseason and if barkley is (insert your adjective, pissed, disappointed, frustrated) it doesn't impact the team's performance. and because the comps right now are with the team bc of how the rb market cratered. if aaron jones had just signed a new 4x48m like he did in march 2021, things would be different.
but markets are dynamic. if austin ekeler gets traded at or before the draft, and his new team gives him a 4x48m, things will shift.
as otas/training camp approach again things will again shift if the nyg fo wants barkley in attendance and fully engaged.
so right now like most negotiations most of it is a waiting game. if barkley is interested in a deal along the lines of the one the nyg already proposed i dont think he'd have to do much more than call his reps and ask them to communicate that to the nyg.
if he wants to wait it out until closer to camp and hope things turn he doesn't have much to lose because i dont think that offer is going away.
Barkley and his agent may be waiting to see what kind of deal Pollard
is building a reputation as a tough negotiator. He pulled Love's offer and now he's doing the same thing with Barkley.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
is building a reputation as a tough negotiator. He pulled Love's offer and now he's doing the same thing with Barkley.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
he also cut bradberry last year. i think the "pulled offer" is being taken out of context if you listen to schoen's interview. he didnt say they pulled any offer, he just said once they didnt reach an agreement they went to the tag and there was no offer still out there because they moved on to mapping out the rest of the roster.
your point stands that he has shown with his actions and not just words that he is willing to hold the line and walk if he doesnt think the number is right.
in sports where there are tons of variables that are separate from a corporate employee you have to take many things into consideration not just the financials. If the only thing you care about is money then you won’t be a successful GM.
Schoen has to take care of the cap but he also has to add talent and sometimes those objectives clash. You can’t always pick budget safety - there’s times where you need to overpay talent (which is virtually all of free agency). “Overspending” a couple million for 1 year is a perfectly fine way to secure production, continuity and a whole bunch of other categories.
My problem is exactly the same
I need to add talented developers to my team, but stay within my budget. Moreover, I need to balance the cost structure. I can't have a more junior person making more than a senior person just because the junior person is new and the market is going up.
I have the exact same issues as the GM! The past couple years the job market is tight, we have inflation and people are asking for more.
In addition to developers, I need to add useful tools to my stack or around our process. The analogy here would be my tools vs a football team's coaches and trainers. Unlike GMs, the cost for these tools comes out of my budget. My budget for tools is limited, but GMs get an unlimited budget for coaches and trainers!!!
is building a reputation as a tough negotiator. He pulled Love's offer and now he's doing the same thing with Barkley.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
he also cut bradberry last year. i think the "pulled offer" is being taken out of context if you listen to schoen's interview. he didnt say they pulled any offer, he just said once they didnt reach an agreement they went to the tag and there was no offer still out there because they moved on to mapping out the rest of the roster.
your point stands that he has shown with his actions and not just words that he is willing to hold the line and walk if he doesnt think the number is right.
is building a reputation as a tough negotiator. He pulled Love's offer and now he's doing the same thing with Barkley.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
he also cut bradberry last year. i think the "pulled offer" is being taken out of context if you listen to schoen's interview. he didnt say they pulled any offer, he just said once they didnt reach an agreement they went to the tag and there was no offer still out there because they moved on to mapping out the rest of the roster.
your point stands that he has shown with his actions and not just words that he is willing to hold the line and walk if he doesnt think the number is right.
the giants have leverage right now because its the offseason and if barkley is (insert your adjective, pissed, disappointed, frustrated) it doesn't impact the team's performance. and because the comps right now are with the team bc of how the rb market cratered. if aaron jones had just signed a new 4x48m like he did in march 2021, things would be different.
but markets are dynamic. if austin ekeler gets traded at or before the draft, and his new team gives him a 4x48m, things will shift.
as otas/training camp approach again things will again shift if the nyg fo wants barkley in attendance and fully engaged.
so right now like most negotiations most of it is a waiting game. if barkley is interested in a deal along the lines of the one the nyg already proposed i dont think he'd have to do much more than call his reps and ask them to communicate that to the nyg.
if he wants to wait it out until closer to camp and hope things turn he doesn't have much to lose because i dont think that offer is going away.
I suspect the Giants will "cave" (at least in terms of contract optics) with something like 4/$54M, but that 4th year will carry a high non-guaranteed salary (~$18M maybe?) to boost the AAV to give SB (and his agent) the win, but the Giants will be looking at it more like a 3/$36M deal with the equivalent of two tags in guarantees and an option year that they can convert into bonus for another extension if SB is not free-falling in decline by 2026.
From the Giants' standpoint, it would also be helpful to have the tag available for Dex or X next offseason if necessary, so giving Barkley that same amount guaranteed right now would allow them the flexibility to use the tag elsewhere and not have it essentially locked away, earmarked for Barkley until 2025.
that the front office offers him a one year $11.5M-$12M contract. It's the right thing to do for a team leader who we're going to want to be taking big hits for us all year. The ROI and goodwill potentially generated by that extra <$2M is well worth the tiny hit to our cap.
that the front office offers him a one year $11.5M-$12M contract. It's the right thing to do for a team leader who we're going to want to be taking big hits for us all year. The ROI and goodwill potentially generated by that extra <$2M is well worth the tiny hit to our cap.
No. Then he should have signed the deal during the year. He'll come back down to Earth at the Giants' price for a three-year deal if he really wants to be here. No reason whatsoever to compromise because Barkley's agent won't.
the giants have leverage right now because its the offseason and if barkley is (insert your adjective, pissed, disappointed, frustrated) it doesn't impact the team's performance. and because the comps right now are with the team bc of how the rb market cratered. if aaron jones had just signed a new 4x48m like he did in march 2021, things would be different.
but markets are dynamic. if austin ekeler gets traded at or before the draft, and his new team gives him a 4x48m, things will shift.
as otas/training camp approach again things will again shift if the nyg fo wants barkley in attendance and fully engaged.
so right now like most negotiations most of it is a waiting game. if barkley is interested in a deal along the lines of the one the nyg already proposed i dont think he'd have to do much more than call his reps and ask them to communicate that to the nyg.
if he wants to wait it out until closer to camp and hope things turn he doesn't have much to lose because i dont think that offer is going away.
I suspect the Giants will "cave" (at least in terms of contract optics) with something like 4/$54M, but that 4th year will carry a high non-guaranteed salary (~$18M maybe?) to boost the AAV to give SB (and his agent) the win, but the Giants will be looking at it more like a 3/$36M deal with the equivalent of two tags in guarantees and an option year that they can convert into bonus for another extension if SB is not free-falling in decline by 2026.
From the Giants' standpoint, it would also be helpful to have the tag available for Dex or X next offseason if necessary, so giving Barkley that same amount guaranteed right now would allow them the flexibility to use the tag elsewhere and not have it essentially locked away, earmarked for Barkley until 2025.
i would guess similarly. i thought a 3x40m (forgetting window dressing) was where it would go in season, and it sounds like barkley turned something close to that down. the market cratering probably has him regretting that so id guess the plane lands somewhere close to that before training camp. most of FA is already over so gaining room from his tag hit this year isn't really a big deal.
it sounds like the priority is extending Lawrence first then after that they will move on to other business. which makes sense because you want the bigger more important contracts locked in before locking in the others around that if you can.
I wonder what Saquon's next move is? I can't see him holding out.
Why wonder? we can see his next move. It is wait to see if something shift the market, which he is doing. Right now, there is no urgency for him or Schoen. Schoen has already gotten the big numbers to fit, so he is under no pressure to lower the cap hit now, and Barkley isn't getting more out of a deal that the tag number, so he can wait too.
Sure Barkley's side misjudged the market, and he might be kicking himself for not signing earlier. So what. But markets go up as well as down; especially for NFL players. If they do get a long term deal done, it will be much later, when one or the other is feeling more pressure.
This isn't breaking news. They pulled the offer when they tagged him 3 weeks ago.
It’s the Walmart version of tiki barber
We have the draft coming up and other contracts to potentially extend.
I would love Barkley to re-sign for 3 years and it still could happen.
Because he is Mara’s favorite I can see a 3 year deal at close to $10 million per year with about $15 million guaranteed.
Schoen certainly didn’t shop hungry in this negotiation with Barkley.
BTW, with a deep talented RB class in the draft not surprised if they select one in round 4. Eric Gray is intriguing in the 4th.
Yeah, agreed. I wonder what Schoen is trying to achieve. Build his cred around the league?
The upshot is good. We should never give Barkley a long term contract.
Wrong. His shoulder mostly affected hos game the second half of the year
Even if that happened, which I doubt, I don't see the Giants taking Robinson.
1) interesting timing of schoen announcing this on the heels of Mara’s SQ comments
2) SQ rejecting the extension last bye week was a blessing in disguise
On the other side of the coin I’m glad Schoen pulled it. He’s worrying about the rest of the team and comfortable paying Barkley on the tag. Works for me either way.
Barkley is good. He seems like a good guy. He's fun to watch. I WANT him to stay with the Giants and I really will be sad to watch him play for a different team.
That said, the inner dialogue in my head keeps looking at what other RBs are getting paid, Barkley's injury history, and thinking 'oh god no.'
So, Fanboi - Resign the man!
Arm Chair GM - Let him play on the tag, draft a RB in the first three rounds and assuming he plays well as Barkley's back up, be prepared to move on next offseason.
1) interesting timing of schoen announcing this on the heels of Mara’s SQ comments
Or maybe it was coordinated. Offer praise before pulling the rug.
The Giants offer IMO at this point is ridiculously over-generous. There's no way Barkley will live up to it.
They're right to pull it as no other team will offer a 3 yr deal with guarantees above what Giants have.
The Giants offer IMO at this point is ridiculously over-generous. There's no way Barkley will live up to it.
They're right to pull it as no other team will offer a 3 yr deal with guarantees above what Giants have.
We don’t know anything about the giants offer outside of it being a 3 year deal and around $13.5m per. If 40% of that is guaranteed, which is in line with top of the market percentages for RBs, why would Barkley accept that when he’s making $10.1 now with a 120% increase coming if tagged again?
Unless Barkley is getting $22m guaranteed from the Giants he’s correct for turning it down from a financial standpoint.
Yup. I'm hoping he doesn't sign his tag. May as well go all the way. We shouldn't offer him any type of long-term deal. Tag-tag, AT MOST. But ideally, we cut ties now, we'll be better off for it in the long run.
That’s what happens with an owner busy sucking up to the media so he can control the narrative. The only reason Barber gets mentioned in this context is he’s in the media.
This does SB a disservice too. “We really want you to stay, so the only thing that can prevent that is your greed”. That’s disingenuous.
Why does Mara insist on making these statements publicly? Puts the GM in a tough spot, pisses off the player for being portrayed as greedy (as is evident in the comments here), what good comes out of it actually?
If Mara was genuine, he’d say that to SB privately and keep it at that.
Barkley is good. He seems like a good guy. He's fun to watch. I WANT him to stay with the Giants and I really will be sad to watch him play for a different team.
That said, the inner dialogue in my head keeps looking at what other RBs are getting paid, Barkley's injury history, and thinking 'oh god no.'
So, Fanboi - Resign the man!
Arm Chair GM - Let him play on the tag, draft a RB in the first three rounds and assuming he plays well as Barkley's back up, be prepared to move on next offseason.
My feelings exactly...
That’s what happens with an owner busy sucking up to the media so he can control the narrative. The only reason Barber gets mentioned in this context is he’s in the media.
This does SB a disservice too. “We really want you to stay, so the only thing that can prevent that is your greed”. That’s disingenuous.
Why does Mara insist on making these statements publicly? Puts the GM in a tough spot, pisses off the player for being portrayed as greedy (as is evident in the comments here), what good comes out of it actually?
If Mara was genuine, he’d say that to SB privately and keep it at that.
When did Tiki retire mis-season?
Plan A: Make good offers to Barkley and Love, and if they don't take them, move on to Plan B, namely using that money to sign other players.
Plan A: Try and trade for a WR (Jeudy, etc.). But if you can't, then move to Plan B, which is trading for Waller and signing Slayton, Campbell, and Smith.
Good for him.
I completely agree that both Barkley and Love overvalued their worth in the FA market. Because of our dearth of offensive weapons, I don't see Schoen trading Barkley, so the most likely scenario is that he plays on the FT this year and leaves at the end of the season.
What will happen: he'll get a three year deal with an out after two. Probably in the range of 12-13MM AAV. It's the Giants way.
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is Schoen putting this out publicly.
Yeah, agreed. I wonder what Schoen is trying to achieve. Build his cred around the league?
The upshot is good. We should never give Barkley a long term contract.
Schoen is establishing his modus operandi regarding early contract offers and what agents should expect when they turn them down.
After the Jones negotiations, it’s important for Scheon to make it clear that if a player refuses to agree to what he believes is a far offer they cannot expect a better offer down the road.
If he doesn’t draw a hard line when he can he’ll been seen as a pushover and that can’t happen.
Barkley should fire his agent and try again.
What will happen: he'll get a three year deal with an out after two. Probably in the range of 12-13MM AAV. It's the Giants way.
Agree with #1. Hope you're wrong about #2.
Some guy's beagle
Barkley in open market would get better than Sanders deal....but nowhere near 13 million per.
I would offer Barkley a 3 year deal....with out after one and two years....big bump in 3rd year.
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Tiki Barker ...?
It’s the Walmart version of tiki barber
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
YES
This, there are others out there that would love Barkley
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is Schoen putting this out publicly.
YES
That is interesting. GM Schoen getting frustrated here or sending message that Saquon is available to rest of league?
Seems like that would be the ceiling in a trade... but if the Giants did trade him a team looking to acquire him could be just as interested in Josh Jacobs or Tony Pollard who are probably just as available.
Honestly I would be surprised if someone offered the Giants a significant amount in trade given his contract status, age, and injury history.
Don't make it more complicated
This, holy cow the guy loves to hear himself talk.
Barkley getting 10M is more than the market. I doubt any team would sign SB for 10M a year except us.
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He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Wrong. His shoulder mostly affected hos game the second half of the year
If that is true that is another good reason to tag him and not offer multi year deal .
Barkley getting 10M is more than the market. I doubt any team would sign SB for 10M a year except us.
I disagree, I think numerous teams would sign him for 10 million / season.
Some of you really grossly undervalue what he brings.
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The market for RBs is dropping big time. Zeke would be lucky to sign for 3M this year.
Barkley getting 10M is more than the market. I doubt any team would sign SB for 10M a year except us.
I disagree, I think numerous teams would sign him for 10 million / season.
Some of you really grossly undervalue what he brings.
Look at what Miles Sanders got
Everyone should stop looking at the yearly salary as well, and that’s all anyone is quoting in this thread.
If the market is this depressed for RBs, Team Barkley are getting a great one-year deal at $10M. And we are likely over-paying at that number.
Miles Sanders is a very good RB and he received 4yrs/$25M with $13M guaranteed. I'm not sure SB gets a deal that much > than that right now...
Barkley is much better than Sanders, IMO. That OL is dominant and is clouding perception.
Barkley is much better than Sanders, IMO. That OL is dominant and is clouding perception.
The point is we may have been able to bring SB back on a multi-year deal much cheaper than any of us expected if he was allowed to test the market. The market has spoken loudly - RBs are as fungible as ever.
Further, I'm just not buying this theory that if we lost Barkley to another team, we wouldn't be able to find options to replace most of his production.
As to your point about trading SB, it's a decent one. But we probably missed the opportunity to get optimal value. The older he gets and the more work he gets, Barkley's value will depreciate even more.
We won’t agree on replacing his production.
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we can’t replace his production in one offseason, there’s no long term commitment, and it gives us the right to tag again (and trade).
Barkley is much better than Sanders, IMO. That OL is dominant and is clouding perception.
The point is we may have been able to bring SB back on a multi-year deal much cheaper than any of us expected if he was allowed to test the market. The market has spoken loudly - RBs are as fungible as ever.
Further, I'm just not buying this theory that if we lost Barkley to another team, we wouldn't be able to find options to replace most of his production.
As to your point about trading SB, it's a decent one. But we probably missed the opportunity to get optimal value. The older he gets and the more work he gets, Barkley's value will depreciate even more.
I tend to agree - given how little money has gone out generally, and to RBs specifically, it's hard to believe that any team would have offered Barkley a monster contract that the Giants just couldn't match (if they wanted to - and if they lost him to someone offering a big deal, they'd get a compensatory pick at least).
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to 25, I would seriously consider removing the tag and letting SB be a FA and using that $10 mil in cap space on other priorities.
Even if that happened, which I doubt, I don't see the Giants taking Robinson.
Taking Robinson would prevent him from dropping to Dallas, who would LOVE to draft this guy. You could then groom him to take over Barkley's spot after next year (I would hold on to SB for one more year, under the tag).
That's a win/win, in my book. Hurting your rival, and setting up for a serious Playoff Run in 2024.
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In comment 16076951 5BowlsSoon said:
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The market for RBs is dropping big time. Zeke would be lucky to sign for 3M this year.
Barkley getting 10M is more than the market. I doubt any team would sign SB for 10M a year except us.
I disagree, I think numerous teams would sign him for 10 million / season.
Some of you really grossly undervalue what he brings.
Look at what Miles Sanders got
Imagine directly comparing Miles Sanders, behind a greatly superior line, to Barkley.
Barkley is a gamebreaker. 10 million is a bargain. I'm all for limiting the contract length, but other than that it's pure folly to undervalue him that badly.
Doubt it. This isn't just about Barkley. Schoen has to show his willingness to be firm in contract negotiations. He'll be in these battles his entire tenure.
Maybe the next offer for a particular player is accepted because they see that Schoen is willing to pull an offer if the market dictates.
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He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Yup. I'm hoping he doesn't sign his tag. May as well go all the way. We shouldn't offer him any type of long-term deal. Tag-tag, AT MOST. But ideally, we cut ties now, we'll be better off for it in the long run.
No reason to cut ties now. We have the money to pay him the tag number, why would we cut ties now when he will be a valuable player next year? I'm good going year to year but I see no reason to cut bait with him right now, that would just be plain old dumb.
I think this is what will happen. This is the way.
It shouldn't be "deep down", but I hope you are spot on.
Otherwise, there was no need to send the Brinks Truck to the Daniel Jones residency...
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that deep down, they don't have to have Barkley to win.
It shouldn't be "deep down", but I hope you are spot on.
Otherwise, there was no need to send the Brinks Truck to the Daniel Jones residency...
In the world of QBs, it was a small Brinks truck.
Let him see his true market value!
I guess they didn't watch last season.
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He turned down a very generous offer and it seemed to affect his game in a negative way in second half. Not a good look. Now it is clear that market has changed and the tag is more than he will make as a FA. If he does not sign his tag Giants should draft a RB and move on .
Wrong. His shoulder mostly affected hos game the second half of the year
Last I checked, RBs need their legs much more than their shoulders. I recall Hampton playing like a beast when his shoulder was practically falling off.
If the market is this depressed for RBs, Team Barkley are getting a great one-year deal at $10M. And we are likely over-paying at that number.
Miles Sanders is a very good RB and he received 4yrs/$25M with $13M guaranteed. I'm not sure SB gets a deal that much > than that right now...
I've been saying the tag is too much for him all along... I would not pay more than 6M
What’s the incentive? I know all anyone cares about is money but sometimes you need to prioritize the player, the culture and the production and a 1 year deal is perfectly fine for that. You can treat every player as a line item.
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mis-calculated the RB market. If they knew the offers were going to be this low, then I doubt they put the tag on Barkley.
What’s the incentive? I know all anyone cares about is money but sometimes you need to prioritize the player, the culture and the production and a 1 year deal is perfectly fine for that. You can treat every player as a line item.
I have some experience at doing this sort of thing.
I am the head of technology at my company. I have a budget (think of it like a cap). I have employees, contractors, vendors for cloud, software, etc.
I can tell you from first hand experience that they are all line items. And you have to decide which are the most valuable to you and pay those, the rest, negotiate hard or walk. You have to be very unemotional about it.
Yea. Can you imagine the guy saying “I d like Saquon to be a Giant for life if it works out”
Seriously don’t see the problem letting someone whose work you value, know that you do indeed value them
Schoen has to take care of the cap but he also has to add talent and sometimes those objectives clash. You can’t always pick budget safety - there’s times where you need to overpay talent (which is virtually all of free agency). “Overspending” a couple million for 1 year is a perfectly fine way to secure production, continuity and a whole bunch of other categories.
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In comment 16076778 mfsd said:
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is Schoen putting this out publicly.
Yeah, agreed. I wonder what Schoen is trying to achieve. Build his cred around the league?
The upshot is good. We should never give Barkley a long term contract.
Schoen is establishing his modus operandi regarding early contract offers and what agents should expect when they turn them down.
After the Jones negotiations, it’s important for Scheon to make it clear that if a player refuses to agree to what he believes is a far offer they cannot expect a better offer down the road.
If he doesn’t draw a hard line when he can he’ll been seen as a pushover and that can’t happen.
Barkley should fire his agent and try again.
+1
Barkley has $10.1m guaranteed - what if the Giants offer was only $20m guaranteed (well above the RB average)? Why would Barkley sign that?
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isn't far behind Lamar Jackson right now in terms of market value and negotiation delusion.
The Giants offer IMO at this point is ridiculously over-generous. There's no way Barkley will live up to it.
They're right to pull it as no other team will offer a 3 yr deal with guarantees above what Giants have.
We don’t know anything about the giants offer outside of it being a 3 year deal and around $13.5m per. If 40% of that is guaranteed, which is in line with top of the market percentages for RBs, why would Barkley accept that when he’s making $10.1 now with a 120% increase coming if tagged again?
Unless Barkley is getting $22m guaranteed from the Giants he’s correct for turning it down from a financial standpoint.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
But I think that's just wishful thinking.
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Now rescind the tag.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
But I think that's just wishful thinking.
Can guarantee that he'd be contacted real fast.
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Now rescind the tag.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
But I think that's just wishful thinking.
Or we want the player? He already pulled the plug on Love, and he pulled the offer on Barkley because he’s got the leverage. Pulling the tag means we don’t want him.
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In comment 16077116 .McL. said:
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Now rescind the tag.
Let him see his true market value!
I would love to see that because it would show us that Schoen is a negotiating vampire. And I think many outside of 1925 Giants Way would be surprised at SB's true value.
But I think that's just wishful thinking.
Or we want the player? He already pulled the plug on Love, and he pulled the offer on Barkley because he’s got the leverage. Pulling the tag means we don’t want him.
Pulling the tag means Giants don't want him at 10 mil. I doubt that happens given Mara's love for SB
but markets are dynamic. if austin ekeler gets traded at or before the draft, and his new team gives him a 4x48m, things will shift.
as otas/training camp approach again things will again shift if the nyg fo wants barkley in attendance and fully engaged.
so right now like most negotiations most of it is a waiting game. if barkley is interested in a deal along the lines of the one the nyg already proposed i dont think he'd have to do much more than call his reps and ask them to communicate that to the nyg.
if he wants to wait it out until closer to camp and hope things turn he doesn't have much to lose because i dont think that offer is going away.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
he also cut bradberry last year. i think the "pulled offer" is being taken out of context if you listen to schoen's interview. he didnt say they pulled any offer, he just said once they didnt reach an agreement they went to the tag and there was no offer still out there because they moved on to mapping out the rest of the roster.
your point stands that he has shown with his actions and not just words that he is willing to hold the line and walk if he doesnt think the number is right.
Schoen has to take care of the cap but he also has to add talent and sometimes those objectives clash. You can’t always pick budget safety - there’s times where you need to overpay talent (which is virtually all of free agency). “Overspending” a couple million for 1 year is a perfectly fine way to secure production, continuity and a whole bunch of other categories.
My problem is exactly the same
I need to add talented developers to my team, but stay within my budget. Moreover, I need to balance the cost structure. I can't have a more junior person making more than a senior person just because the junior person is new and the market is going up.
I have the exact same issues as the GM! The past couple years the job market is tight, we have inflation and people are asking for more.
In addition to developers, I need to add useful tools to my stack or around our process. The analogy here would be my tools vs a football team's coaches and trainers. Unlike GMs, the cost for these tools comes out of my budget. My budget for tools is limited, but GMs get an unlimited budget for coaches and trainers!!!
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is building a reputation as a tough negotiator. He pulled Love's offer and now he's doing the same thing with Barkley.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
he also cut bradberry last year. i think the "pulled offer" is being taken out of context if you listen to schoen's interview. he didnt say they pulled any offer, he just said once they didnt reach an agreement they went to the tag and there was no offer still out there because they moved on to mapping out the rest of the roster.
your point stands that he has shown with his actions and not just words that he is willing to hold the line and walk if he doesnt think the number is right.
+1
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In comment 16077368 mittenedman said:
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is building a reputation as a tough negotiator. He pulled Love's offer and now he's doing the same thing with Barkley.
The message? Sign the contract while you can, because we'll move on quickly if you don't. Lots of fish in the sea, and with a great coaching staff, there's lots of ways to win.
he also cut bradberry last year. i think the "pulled offer" is being taken out of context if you listen to schoen's interview. he didnt say they pulled any offer, he just said once they didnt reach an agreement they went to the tag and there was no offer still out there because they moved on to mapping out the rest of the roster.
your point stands that he has shown with his actions and not just words that he is willing to hold the line and walk if he doesnt think the number is right.
+1
+2
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John Mara can’t find a way to STFU.
How about you STFU. I'd much rather listen to what he has to say than you.
👍🏿👍
but markets are dynamic. if austin ekeler gets traded at or before the draft, and his new team gives him a 4x48m, things will shift.
as otas/training camp approach again things will again shift if the nyg fo wants barkley in attendance and fully engaged.
so right now like most negotiations most of it is a waiting game. if barkley is interested in a deal along the lines of the one the nyg already proposed i dont think he'd have to do much more than call his reps and ask them to communicate that to the nyg.
if he wants to wait it out until closer to camp and hope things turn he doesn't have much to lose because i dont think that offer is going away.
I suspect the Giants will "cave" (at least in terms of contract optics) with something like 4/$54M, but that 4th year will carry a high non-guaranteed salary (~$18M maybe?) to boost the AAV to give SB (and his agent) the win, but the Giants will be looking at it more like a 3/$36M deal with the equivalent of two tags in guarantees and an option year that they can convert into bonus for another extension if SB is not free-falling in decline by 2026.
From the Giants' standpoint, it would also be helpful to have the tag available for Dex or X next offseason if necessary, so giving Barkley that same amount guaranteed right now would allow them the flexibility to use the tag elsewhere and not have it essentially locked away, earmarked for Barkley until 2025.
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Barkley fucked up and Schoen gives zero fucks.
Barkley has $10.1m guaranteed - what if the Giants offer was only $20m guaranteed (well above the RB average)? Why would Barkley sign that?
The offer during the season more than the tag.
No. Then he should have signed the deal during the year. He'll come back down to Earth at the Giants' price for a three-year deal if he really wants to be here. No reason whatsoever to compromise because Barkley's agent won't.
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In comment 16077255 Dave in Hoboken said:
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Barkley fucked up and Schoen gives zero fucks.
Barkley has $10.1m guaranteed - what if the Giants offer was only $20m guaranteed (well above the RB average)? Why would Barkley sign that?
The offer during the season more than the tag.
Which was?
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the giants have leverage right now because its the offseason and if barkley is (insert your adjective, pissed, disappointed, frustrated) it doesn't impact the team's performance. and because the comps right now are with the team bc of how the rb market cratered. if aaron jones had just signed a new 4x48m like he did in march 2021, things would be different.
but markets are dynamic. if austin ekeler gets traded at or before the draft, and his new team gives him a 4x48m, things will shift.
as otas/training camp approach again things will again shift if the nyg fo wants barkley in attendance and fully engaged.
so right now like most negotiations most of it is a waiting game. if barkley is interested in a deal along the lines of the one the nyg already proposed i dont think he'd have to do much more than call his reps and ask them to communicate that to the nyg.
if he wants to wait it out until closer to camp and hope things turn he doesn't have much to lose because i dont think that offer is going away.
I suspect the Giants will "cave" (at least in terms of contract optics) with something like 4/$54M, but that 4th year will carry a high non-guaranteed salary (~$18M maybe?) to boost the AAV to give SB (and his agent) the win, but the Giants will be looking at it more like a 3/$36M deal with the equivalent of two tags in guarantees and an option year that they can convert into bonus for another extension if SB is not free-falling in decline by 2026.
From the Giants' standpoint, it would also be helpful to have the tag available for Dex or X next offseason if necessary, so giving Barkley that same amount guaranteed right now would allow them the flexibility to use the tag elsewhere and not have it essentially locked away, earmarked for Barkley until 2025.
i would guess similarly. i thought a 3x40m (forgetting window dressing) was where it would go in season, and it sounds like barkley turned something close to that down. the market cratering probably has him regretting that so id guess the plane lands somewhere close to that before training camp. most of FA is already over so gaining room from his tag hit this year isn't really a big deal.
it sounds like the priority is extending Lawrence first then after that they will move on to other business. which makes sense because you want the bigger more important contracts locked in before locking in the others around that if you can.
Why wonder? we can see his next move. It is wait to see if something shift the market, which he is doing. Right now, there is no urgency for him or Schoen. Schoen has already gotten the big numbers to fit, so he is under no pressure to lower the cap hit now, and Barkley isn't getting more out of a deal that the tag number, so he can wait too.
Sure Barkley's side misjudged the market, and he might be kicking himself for not signing earlier. So what. But markets go up as well as down; especially for NFL players. If they do get a long term deal done, it will be much later, when one or the other is feeling more pressure.