As the process has gone along, I believe a very good corner, or even a edge/DE that could start right away will be there at #25.
I've said in recent days that in order for the Giants to compete for the division, I think they need to build the defense up into a standout unit. I like a lot of the pieces that the team currently has.
Corner however, is murky even if just considering this year, and especially beyond 2023. The pieces are there for a functional passing game if they can keep Waller on the field. But getting a top flight corner in the first can help them early.
Ringo is a target that could make it to #25. We can argue that a WR might be more impactful to the team, but I would argue that getting a corner that can matchup with DeVonta Smith and Brandin Cooks...to me that gives them a better chance at winning in both the short term and beyond 2023. And if a good player is there in the 2nd that could really help the defense, either at Edge or DL, I would happily go defense back to back.
Everyone wants a receiver or IOL early, I get it. But the Giants do have a unit there that should be at least functional for this year. Additionally, I think there's a good chance for a value at WR in the third.
Time to get back to the roots of this team — defense.
Schoen is going to have to pay big money soon to Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas. That means you have to save elsewhere. You can't do it at cornerback unless you draft guys who can play. And you can't run out a defense that doesn't have good corners in any defense, much less in Wink's system. That's a problem that absolutely must be addressed, and IMO needs to be addressed this year, and with aggressiveness, in this draft.
The value has to be there, yes. But if Ringo or Porter make it to #25, that's my pick.
Sy'56 said on the Giants Insider pod that fans need to come to the reality that CB is at least as likely as WR in the first, and I not only agree, I'd go farther...I believe it's nearly an imperative. If you don't get a guy that can not only start early, but play at a high level, then what is your plan? Because it's going to get very, very dicey soon if you don't get at least one, and waiting until the 2nd round... that's a gamble I wouldn't take if I have a guy with a CB that makes the grade for #25, even if Flowers, Hyatt, QJ, Addison, even JSN are on the board.
Discuss.
Currently, yes. And will be costly to extend, and perhaps more costly than he would be worth on the back-end of a hypothetical extension. He's entering his age 28 season and has missed at least 4 games in each of the last 4 seasons.
Good to hear.
I don't think corner is a prime need if Jackson, Robinson, Flatt, etc are healthy. And is a real sticky corner even that valuable anymore with the rules so slanted to offense? Maybe the real asset of corner play in today's game is tackling and some decent ball skills. Hell, look at the playoff teams. Outside of Philly, who had great corners?
The all pro corners were Gardner, Alexander, Bradberry, Surtain. Only Bradberry was in the playoffs.
Find corners later in the draft, but look for pass rush early.
JerseyCityJoe : 4:34 pm : link : reply
If a WR we like is there he has to be the pick. Regardless if a CB or Edge guy slips. imho
Have to agree with JerseyCityJoe - we just added a solid Middle Linebacker, a D Tackle and a Corner on Defense. Plus we get back Cory Beaver and will have both our Edge guys healthy from the beginning. We need to give Jones another special type of player at WR AND some IPL to keep him upright.
Totally agree. JSN, Flowers, Johnston, Addison, and Hyatt all have warts. My guess though is that they'd take JSN or Flowers if available, perhaps after a slight move up. But if they're not available, then I expect the pick to be CB or Edge.
WR could very well be the pick at #25, but if their targets are gone, they're going to pivot to another premium position.
WR could very well be the pick at #25, but if their targets are gone, they're going to pivot to another premium position.
+1.
I don't think corner is a prime need if Jackson, Robinson, Flatt, etc are healthy. And is a real sticky corner even that valuable anymore with the rules so slanted to offense? Maybe the real asset of corner play in today's game is tackling and some decent ball skills. Hell, look at the playoff teams. Outside of Philly, who had great corners?
The all pro corners were Gardner, Alexander, Bradberry, Surtain. Only Bradberry was in the playoffs.
Find corners later in the draft, but look for pass rush early.
That's some pretty whack logic, bud. Is your contention that corners don't carry teams to the playoffs by themselves? Because, yeah, obviously.
The teams that had success had elite offenses led by superstar QBs. The teams that didn't have superstar QBs made it farthest by having a great defense. The Giants don't have Mahomes at QB, so they will need to be great on defense. Ask Minnesota how things were without corners last year. Sure, that wasn't the entire reason they were so bad, but it was a big one.
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taking a shot on day one for defense. But only if it's a pass rush asset. So, for example, if Nolan Smith is available at 25, that's a good investment with his physical attributes and metrics.
I don't think corner is a prime need if Jackson, Robinson, Flatt, etc are healthy. And is a real sticky corner even that valuable anymore with the rules so slanted to offense? Maybe the real asset of corner play in today's game is tackling and some decent ball skills. Hell, look at the playoff teams. Outside of Philly, who had great corners?
The all pro corners were Gardner, Alexander, Bradberry, Surtain. Only Bradberry was in the playoffs.
Find corners later in the draft, but look for pass rush early.
That's some pretty whack logic, bud. Is your contention that corners don't carry teams to the playoffs by themselves? Because, yeah, obviously.
The teams that had success had elite offenses led by superstar QBs. The teams that didn't have superstar QBs made it farthest by having a great defense. The Giants don't have Mahomes at QB, so they will need to be great on defense. Ask Minnesota how things were without corners last year. Sure, that wasn't the entire reason they were so bad, but it was a big one.
I suggested I liked our current corners if healthy and we should not invest in a corner on day one. Is that position really "whack logic"? And I didn't say you could pull any corner off the corner scrap heap and be fine.
My contention is you don't need elite corners to compete for the biggest prize.
I'd rather invest in another pass rush talent if we go D on day one. Such controversy...
The higher need is likely WR, but you cannot force it - there will be good WRs later in the draft. They do have options at CB already on the team and Flott was starting to look good at the end of the season.
I think Schoen has positioned himself evry well that he can take any number of players and not force a particular position.
If there’s Addison, Flowers, Ringo, I think Giants will pick Addison or Flowers.
If some reason Witherspoon or Porter Jr drops at 25 then Schoen and Daboll needs to decide which way is the best for Giants.
Banks I like him but I think he will be in Ringo group tier below Addison and Flowers. That’s just my guess.
This is a smart way to look at it. It would be short-sighted to force a decision here at WR to a prospect that has Schoen can justify the grade only because WR is a high priority. Navigating the board some could improve his chances to land the guy he wants but no guarantee and often too costly.
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In comment 16077809 bw in dc said:
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taking a shot on day one for defense. But only if it's a pass rush asset. So, for example, if Nolan Smith is available at 25, that's a good investment with his physical attributes and metrics.
I don't think corner is a prime need if Jackson, Robinson, Flatt, etc are healthy. And is a real sticky corner even that valuable anymore with the rules so slanted to offense? Maybe the real asset of corner play in today's game is tackling and some decent ball skills. Hell, look at the playoff teams. Outside of Philly, who had great corners?
The all pro corners were Gardner, Alexander, Bradberry, Surtain. Only Bradberry was in the playoffs.
Find corners later in the draft, but look for pass rush early.
That's some pretty whack logic, bud. Is your contention that corners don't carry teams to the playoffs by themselves? Because, yeah, obviously.
The teams that had success had elite offenses led by superstar QBs. The teams that didn't have superstar QBs made it farthest by having a great defense. The Giants don't have Mahomes at QB, so they will need to be great on defense. Ask Minnesota how things were without corners last year. Sure, that wasn't the entire reason they were so bad, but it was a big one.
I suggested I liked our current corners if healthy and we should not invest in a corner on day one. Is that position really "whack logic"? And I didn't say you could pull any corner off the corner scrap heap and be fine.
My contention is you don't need elite corners to compete for the biggest prize.
I'd rather invest in another pass rush talent if we go D on day one. Such controversy...
Yeah I meant to respond to that also. Jackson is under contract for one year. Robinson played 11 games the past two seasons, just 2 last year. Flott is a question mark. But could potentially be AN answer.
If there’s Addison, Flowers, Ringo, I think Giants will pick Addison or Flowers.
If some reason Witherspoon or Porter Jr drops at 25 then Schoen and Daboll needs to decide which way is the best for Giants.
Banks I like him but I think he will be in Ringo group tier below Addison and Flowers. That’s just my guess.
Yes. I think people are soon going to find that the grades of some of these corners are superior to even the top WR in the class.
I believe Ringo will ultimately have a higher grade than all the receivers with the possible exception of JSN, and believe they are very close in grade, possibly identical.
Jon made a comment about not forcing a position. I absolutely agree with Jon. That's what I think Team Draft WR is doing. These corners are better prospects than these WRs, IMO, and just happen to be at a critical area of need. It's positional value, it's great draft value at the spot, and it's a team need. All factors lining up.
Won't know until draft day, but seems like there's a good chance a premiere corner in the top group will be there at #25.
CB, ER, WR should all be on the table, and selected based on the best player available. These are all premium position needs that would improve the Giants.
Also they are deep positions this year and there will be options in the 2nd and third rounds at decent quality.
Do not force the pick!!!!
.....
Do not force the pick!!!!
Fortunately, I think Schoen, Brown and Daboll get this.
The Intel With Greg Cosell: NFL Draft Loaded With Tall, Long Cornerbacks - ( New Window )
Ringo was an elite prospect out of high school with the highest expectations. And after a really good 2021 with GA, he came into this year as a possible top five pick.
But he was very spotty all of 2022. So, the game tape isn't lining up with the first-round physical gifts.
One of the more interesting and risky prospects in this draft...
CB, ER, WR should all be on the table, and selected based on the best player available. These are all premium position needs that would improve the Giants.
Also they are deep positions this year and there will be options in the 2nd and third rounds at decent quality.
Do not force the pick!!!!
100% agree with everything you said, Gidie. Everything I've posted in this thread is about prediction that one of the elite graded corners will drop to #25, none of the top edges will be there, and the Giants will have to decide between perhaps one of those corners, Flowers, maybe QJ, maybe Hyatt, and I'll throw in Kancey. Depending on which corner, my belief is that is the way they should go if my prognostication skills come to fruition. But absolutely, it's a fluid situation with the draft and Schoen will have a decision matrix, if (a) player is there, we take him, if not, (b) player, and (c) player, and so on.
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In comment 16077809 bw in dc said:
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taking a shot on day one for defense. But only if it's a pass rush asset. So, for example, if Nolan Smith is available at 25, that's a good investment with his physical attributes and metrics.
I don't think corner is a prime need if Jackson, Robinson, Flatt, etc are healthy. And is a real sticky corner even that valuable anymore with the rules so slanted to offense? Maybe the real asset of corner play in today's game is tackling and some decent ball skills. Hell, look at the playoff teams. Outside of Philly, who had great corners?
The all pro corners were Gardner, Alexander, Bradberry, Surtain. Only Bradberry was in the playoffs.
Find corners later in the draft, but look for pass rush early.
That's some pretty whack logic, bud. Is your contention that corners don't carry teams to the playoffs by themselves? Because, yeah, obviously.
The teams that had success had elite offenses led by superstar QBs. The teams that didn't have superstar QBs made it farthest by having a great defense. The Giants don't have Mahomes at QB, so they will need to be great on defense. Ask Minnesota how things were without corners last year. Sure, that wasn't the entire reason they were so bad, but it was a big one.
I suggested I liked our current corners if healthy and we should not invest in a corner on day one. Is that position really "whack logic"? And I didn't say you could pull any corner off the corner scrap heap and be fine.
My contention is you don't need elite corners to compete for the biggest prize.
I'd rather invest in another pass rush talent if we go D on day one. Such controversy...
+1
I’d add pulling CBs off the scrap heap is exactly what they did last year and the coverage was fine. The run D was a problem. The pass rush was inconsistent. This time last year people were crying for CBs. They can wait on the position.
CB is the most overrated position in the league. A quality pass rusher is going to be way more valuable to this defense.
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In comment 16077945 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16077809 bw in dc said:
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taking a shot on day one for defense. But only if it's a pass rush asset. So, for example, if Nolan Smith is available at 25, that's a good investment with his physical attributes and metrics.
I don't think corner is a prime need if Jackson, Robinson, Flatt, etc are healthy. And is a real sticky corner even that valuable anymore with the rules so slanted to offense? Maybe the real asset of corner play in today's game is tackling and some decent ball skills. Hell, look at the playoff teams. Outside of Philly, who had great corners?
The all pro corners were Gardner, Alexander, Bradberry, Surtain. Only Bradberry was in the playoffs.
Find corners later in the draft, but look for pass rush early.
That's some pretty whack logic, bud. Is your contention that corners don't carry teams to the playoffs by themselves? Because, yeah, obviously.
The teams that had success had elite offenses led by superstar QBs. The teams that didn't have superstar QBs made it farthest by having a great defense. The Giants don't have Mahomes at QB, so they will need to be great on defense. Ask Minnesota how things were without corners last year. Sure, that wasn't the entire reason they were so bad, but it was a big one.
I suggested I liked our current corners if healthy and we should not invest in a corner on day one. Is that position really "whack logic"? And I didn't say you could pull any corner off the corner scrap heap and be fine.
My contention is you don't need elite corners to compete for the biggest prize.
I'd rather invest in another pass rush talent if we go D on day one. Such controversy...
+1
I’d add pulling CBs off the scrap heap is exactly what they did last year and the coverage was fine. The run D was a problem. The pass rush was inconsistent. This time last year people were crying for CBs. They can wait on the position.
CB is the most overrated position in the league. A quality pass rusher is going to be way more valuable to this defense.
Granted, Wink has been public about his desire for cornerbacks.
Now what would you say about the Giants getting a cornerback and a pass-rusher in the first couple rounds, say Porter or Banks in the first and a guy like Tuli Tuipulotu in the second?
And the outlook on Adoree' remaining a Giant after this season is cloudy at best.
You can survive average CB play when you're team is helmed by Patrick Mahomes. My contention is that if the Giants want to win 12 or more games, and really put themselves in the Super Bowl contender conversation, it will need to be with a smothering defense. I actually agree with you that I'd sooner take a premium edge, but I don't see a premium edge getting to 25. It could happen. If there's that guy there, I have no problem with that being the pick.
But overall, the Giants do need to add corners to get this defense to a championship level. They have to slow down Lamb, Cooks, Smith, Brown, McLaurin and Dotson in this division. Dotson, btw, is underrated and is going to be a problem for teams in that Washington offense. He was a problem for us, he owned the Giants in that 4th quarter in GM 1 that resulted in a tie rather than a win.
Smothering defense. Not just "fine". That is what's needed...we can all be fine and satisfied the Giants made the playoffs, but now those expectations must rise. I don't believe DJ is going to put up 28+ points a game. I'm not looking for a bunch of early playoff exits. I want to see the Giants get to the Super Bowl and win it. So with that in mind, get this defense to a championship level, to me, that's their best chance to get there.
And the outlook on Adoree' remaining a Giant after this season is cloudy at best.
You can survive average CB play when you're team is helmed by Patrick Mahomes. My contention is that if the Giants want to win 12 or more games, and really put themselves in the Super Bowl contender conversation, it will need to be with a smothering defense. I actually agree with you that I'd sooner take a premium edge, but I don't see a premium edge getting to 25. It could happen. If there's that guy there, I have no problem with that being the pick.
But overall, the Giants do need to add corners to get this defense to a championship level. They have to slow down Lamb, Cooks, Smith, Brown, McLaurin and Dotson in this division. Dotson, btw, is underrated and is going to be a problem for teams in that Washington offense. He was a problem for us, he owned the Giants in that 4th quarter in GM 1 that resulted in a tie rather than a win.
Smothering defense. Not just "fine". That is what's needed...we can all be fine and satisfied the Giants made the playoffs, but now those expectations must rise. I don't believe DJ is going to put up 28+ points a game. I'm not looking for a bunch of early playoff exits. I want to see the Giants get to the Super Bowl and win it. So with that in mind, get this defense to a championship level, to me, that's their best chance to get there.
The Giants spent the last decade drafting CBs high and spending big money on corners in FA. How “smothering” was that defense?
If the goal is a dominant defense then the focus needs to be on the front 7 — and not just starters but quality pass rush depth which they have very little of.
The Giants spent the last decade drafting CBs high and spending big money on corners in FA. How “smothering” was that defense?
If the goal is a dominant defense then the focus needs to be on the front 7 — and not just starters but quality pass rush depth which they have very little of.
they drafted apple (2016) and baker (2019) and both got cut before their rookie deals ended bc of off the field issues. those are the only 2 corners in the top 70 in the last decade+ of drafts.
so they actually distinctly spent the last decade not drafting corners high and on the rare occasions they did they blew the picks.
so what we've actually seen is how things work out when you dont get good corners with high picks (you end up needing to spend big $ on older corners in FA).
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The Giants spent the last decade drafting CBs high and spending big money on corners in FA. How “smothering” was that defense?
If the goal is a dominant defense then the focus needs to be on the front 7 — and not just starters but quality pass rush depth which they have very little of.
they drafted apple (2016) and baker (2019) and both got cut before their rookie deals ended bc of off the field issues. those are the only 2 corners in the top 70 in the last decade+ of drafts.
so they actually distinctly spent the last decade not drafting corners high and on the rare occasions they did they blew the picks.
so what we've actually seen is how things work out when you dont get good corners with high picks (you end up needing to spend big $ on older corners in FA).
You conveniently left out the FA part, and they weren’t “older” corners.
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In comment 16079394 WillVAB said:
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The Giants spent the last decade drafting CBs high and spending big money on corners in FA. How “smothering” was that defense?
If the goal is a dominant defense then the focus needs to be on the front 7 — and not just starters but quality pass rush depth which they have very little of.
they drafted apple (2016) and baker (2019) and both got cut before their rookie deals ended bc of off the field issues. those are the only 2 corners in the top 70 in the last decade+ of drafts.
so they actually distinctly spent the last decade not drafting corners high and on the rare occasions they did they blew the picks.
so what we've actually seen is how things work out when you dont get good corners with high picks (you end up needing to spend big $ on older corners in FA).
You conveniently left out the FA part, and they weren’t “older” corners.
who was it that typed the bold above?
you know how i know i didnt leave "the fa part" out? you responded to my comment that they signed older corners saying they didnt. DRC was 28, Jenkins was 28, and Bradberry was 27. in NFL corner years that's not young, and why none of them were giants for that long.
At 25 I could virtually anything else.
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In comment 16079421 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16079394 WillVAB said:
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The Giants spent the last decade drafting CBs high and spending big money on corners in FA. How “smothering” was that defense?
If the goal is a dominant defense then the focus needs to be on the front 7 — and not just starters but quality pass rush depth which they have very little of.
they drafted apple (2016) and baker (2019) and both got cut before their rookie deals ended bc of off the field issues. those are the only 2 corners in the top 70 in the last decade+ of drafts.
so they actually distinctly spent the last decade not drafting corners high and on the rare occasions they did they blew the picks.
so what we've actually seen is how things work out when you dont get good corners with high picks (you end up needing to spend big $ on older corners in FA).
You conveniently left out the FA part, and they weren’t “older” corners.
who was it that typed the bold above?
you know how i know i didnt leave "the fa part" out? you responded to my comment that they signed older corners saying they didnt. DRC was 28, Jenkins was 28, and Bradberry was 27. in NFL corner years that's not young, and why none of them were giants for that long.
Right, how old are corners when they come out of college? How old are they once their rookie deals expire?
The Eagles have 3 seasons under.500 since the turn of the century while the Giants have had 11 seasons under .500.
The Eagles aren’t good because they pump resources consistently into their secondary. They’ve been consistently good because they’ve been very strong in the trenches.
The Giants still have work to do on both sides of the LoS. They’d be foolish to burn premium assets now on a CB, especially when they have a proven DC who can turn street FAs into serviceable players at the position. There’s going to be a better ROI going another way early.
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In comment 16079423 WillVAB said:
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In comment 16079421 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16079394 WillVAB said:
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The Giants spent the last decade drafting CBs high and spending big money on corners in FA. How “smothering” was that defense?
If the goal is a dominant defense then the focus needs to be on the front 7 — and not just starters but quality pass rush depth which they have very little of.
they drafted apple (2016) and baker (2019) and both got cut before their rookie deals ended bc of off the field issues. those are the only 2 corners in the top 70 in the last decade+ of drafts.
so they actually distinctly spent the last decade not drafting corners high and on the rare occasions they did they blew the picks.
so what we've actually seen is how things work out when you dont get good corners with high picks (you end up needing to spend big $ on older corners in FA).
You conveniently left out the FA part, and they weren’t “older” corners.
who was it that typed the bold above?
you know how i know i didnt leave "the fa part" out? you responded to my comment that they signed older corners saying they didnt. DRC was 28, Jenkins was 28, and Bradberry was 27. in NFL corner years that's not young, and why none of them were giants for that long.
Right, how old are corners when they come out of college? How old are they once their rookie deals expire?
how old were all the corners the nyg drafted high in the last decade?
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Plus, I think Adoree Jackson is only signed through this coming year?
Currently, yes. And will be costly to extend, and perhaps more costly than he would be worth on the back-end of a hypothetical extension. He's entering his age 28 season and has missed at least 4 games in each of the last 4 seasons.
I'm going to ding Dabol for Adoree missing those gamea this past season. Just about the only mistake Dabol made all year was putting him back there to return punts.
Here's the thing. You're not going to win a championship because of your corners. But you can lose a shot at a championship because you don't have them.
And Will, I'm fully on board with edge again. Problem is it's unlikely that an edge that meets the value at pick 25 is unlikely to be there. These dudes are going to be gone.
And despite what you think, corners are important.
Here's the thing. You're not going to win a championship because of your corners. But you can lose a shot at a championship because you don't have them.
And Will, I'm fully on board with edge again. Problem is it's unlikely that an edge that meets the value at pick 25 is unlikely to be there. These dudes are going to be gone.
And despite what you think, corners are important.
Well Allstar, I think it goes two ways. On the one hand Wink's been clear that he wants a really good cornerback in his defense because he can scheme up pass-rush. On the other hand we're not well-set at edge and good defensive ends/edge rushers typically aren't drafted after the first 80 picks or so (an exception is Maxx Crosby in the 4th round of 2019), so those have to be hit early.
Here's the thing. You're not going to win a championship because of your corners. But you can lose a shot at a championship because you don't have them.
And Will, I'm fully on board with edge again. Problem is it's unlikely that an edge that meets the value at pick 25 is unlikely to be there. These dudes are going to be gone.
And despite what you think, corners are important.
The Eagles did not have a good secondary the year they won the SB. You don’t need good corners to win a SB.
If the draft runs close to the mocks I’ve seen there will be a quality edge available at 25 and 57. WR will probably be one of the picks which is why CB should wait.
This. Hard pass for me before round 2. Maybe even 3. Ike Austin type prospect What a bust that guy was
WR could very well be the pick at #25, but if their targets are gone, they're going to pivot to another premium position.
Personally(yeah I'm most likely alone in this) I don't consider WR a premium position. In todaysNFL w all the rules skewed to offense ver successful WRs are drafted later and later. Don't force a pick. Reese and his staff set this team back a decades stupid picks. And even when they got a pick like OBJ right they passed on two Gold Jacket guys for him.
Over and over the "great athlete" gets drafted way too often and round or three too early. Then gets a scholarship as GMs don't want to cut bait in a 1st 2nd or 3rd round bust. First two rounds you should get a starter. No one expects you to hit on all picks but most of names of the last two GMs resumes on draft day were embarrassing over all. And for all his fuck ups DG wasn't as abysmal as Reese. But the roster was a mess and they just absolutely got the coaching staff wrong in so many ways.
Pick the best player usually works. No idea why people over and want GMs to pass over potoential stude a dthey pretend they werent shilling for busts
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The year he put together a near DPOY season was the last time before this past season the Giants made the playoffs. Led completely by the defense, a unit that wasn't a great pass rushing unit, but had a dominant secondary with Collins, Jenkins, and DRC. And that team won 11 games with an offense that couldn't score points.
Here's the thing. You're not going to win a championship because of your corners. But you can lose a shot at a championship because you don't have them.
And Will, I'm fully on board with edge again. Problem is it's unlikely that an edge that meets the value at pick 25 is unlikely to be there. These dudes are going to be gone.
And despite what you think, corners are important.
The Eagles did not have a good secondary the year they won the SB. You don’t need good corners to win a SB.
If the draft runs close to the mocks I’ve seen there will be a quality edge available at 25 and 57. WR will probably be one of the picks which is why CB should wait.
Just stop with the anecdotal blathering. It's pointless. And the Eagles had a good secondary that year, that's incorrect.
How about the Patriots last Super Bowl championship team? Because they were much better at corner than they were at edge. Does that matter or nah?
It's pointless. I don't care to continue this. If you don't have a baseline of quality corners, you aren't winning the Super Bowl. Sure, you can win a championship without great corners, but you can blow any chance of even getting to that game with bad ones.
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In comment 16079590 allstarjim said:
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The year he put together a near DPOY season was the last time before this past season the Giants made the playoffs. Led completely by the defense, a unit that wasn't a great pass rushing unit, but had a dominant secondary with Collins, Jenkins, and DRC. And that team won 11 games with an offense that couldn't score points.
Here's the thing. You're not going to win a championship because of your corners. But you can lose a shot at a championship because you don't have them.
And Will, I'm fully on board with edge again. Problem is it's unlikely that an edge that meets the value at pick 25 is unlikely to be there. These dudes are going to be gone.
And despite what you think, corners are important.
The Eagles did not have a good secondary the year they won the SB. You don’t need good corners to win a SB.
If the draft runs close to the mocks I’ve seen there will be a quality edge available at 25 and 57. WR will probably be one of the picks which is why CB should wait.
Just stop with the anecdotal blathering. It's pointless. And the Eagles had a good secondary that year, that's incorrect.
How about the Patriots last Super Bowl championship team? Because they were much better at corner than they were at edge. Does that matter or nah?
It's pointless. I don't care to continue this. If you don't have a baseline of quality corners, you aren't winning the Super Bowl. Sure, you can win a championship without great corners, but you can blow any chance of even getting to that game with bad ones.
It’s not “anecdotal blathering.” Your bullshit theory is the exception, not the rule. Championships are won on the back of a great pass rush not a great secondary. Go look at every SB winner the last 20 years.
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In comment 16080127 WillVAB said:
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In comment 16079590 allstarjim said:
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The year he put together a near DPOY season was the last time before this past season the Giants made the playoffs. Led completely by the defense, a unit that wasn't a great pass rushing unit, but had a dominant secondary with Collins, Jenkins, and DRC. And that team won 11 games with an offense that couldn't score points.
Here's the thing. You're not going to win a championship because of your corners. But you can lose a shot at a championship because you don't have them.
And Will, I'm fully on board with edge again. Problem is it's unlikely that an edge that meets the value at pick 25 is unlikely to be there. These dudes are going to be gone.
And despite what you think, corners are important.
The Eagles did not have a good secondary the year they won the SB. You don’t need good corners to win a SB.
If the draft runs close to the mocks I’ve seen there will be a quality edge available at 25 and 57. WR will probably be one of the picks which is why CB should wait.
Just stop with the anecdotal blathering. It's pointless. And the Eagles had a good secondary that year, that's incorrect.
How about the Patriots last Super Bowl championship team? Because they were much better at corner than they were at edge. Does that matter or nah?
It's pointless. I don't care to continue this. If you don't have a baseline of quality corners, you aren't winning the Super Bowl. Sure, you can win a championship without great corners, but you can blow any chance of even getting to that game with bad ones.
It’s not “anecdotal blathering.” Your bullshit theory is the exception, not the rule. Championships are won on the back of a great pass rush not a great secondary. Go look at every SB winner the last 20 years.
Championships are won in a variety of ways.
You keep trying to argue a point I'm not disputing.
That said, argue with Belichick and Wink about corners, not me. Clearly these defensive minds are misguided and foolish.
Yet, you still won't acknowledge my point that corners might not win you a Super Bowl, but bad corners prevent you from getting in the game.
Out of the recent champions aside from this year's Chiefs team, going back a long time, the champion had both...skilled pass rushers and good cornerback/secondary play.
There's not many champions that you can look at and say otherwise. It's not either/or, it's both. And you talking about cornerbacks not mattering, that's a bullshit theory and I'd love for you to tell Martindale that to his face.