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Good Piece on Barkley and GMen

Spider43 : 3/29/2023 6:59 pm
New era.

Giants and Barkley - ( New Window )
I like the angle the FO is taking  
larryflower37 : 3/29/2023 7:17 pm : link
If Barkley is healthy all year again and has another big year tag him again or draft one next year
Schoen doing a great job.  
Victor in CT : 3/30/2023 7:50 am : link
really smart. put a value and stick to it.
About time  
Sec_149 : 3/30/2023 8:08 am : link
This makes too much sense.
IDK  
ZoneXDOA : 3/30/2023 9:29 am : link
I feel like this article makes a lot of assumptions. Barkley's value transcends skill/effort level. He's the consumate professional. If I were to pick a face of the franchise, it would be Saquon. And he's smart. More than smart enough to realize that his leadership and work ethic is one of his most compelling arguments for more $$. I don't think he will be holding out. He's not going to play games with the FO. If the $$ is as far apart as it appears to be, he is also aware that the market is what it is. Nobody wants the tag, but nobody wants to play for less than they feel they are worth on a long term contract either. I believe these conversations were had and it was a mutually beneficial situation to apply the tag. Barkley gets to play another season in Blue and if the RB market takes a turn in Barkley's favor, he will get his payday next season, wether that is here or somewhere else.

This is a business. But not just for FOs. It's a business for the players as well. I think Barkley is worth AT LEAST what CMC is worth. CMC has had just as much injury concern as Saquon. I know. He was an occupant of my fantasy IR slot for a couple of seasons. IMHO Barkley is not the type of player you just take a crap on when the $ expectations do not match up. You work it out and you keep the best interest of both parties in mind.
If anything, I think Hughes may be overly generous to Barkley.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/30/2023 11:18 am : link
"Barkley is great right now, yes."

Is he, though? While it's true that defenses focused on stopping Barkley, was that because he's truly great, or because he was, by far, the most potent weapon on a pathetic roster? Sure, Daboll and Kafka built their gameplans around him, at least until December. What choice did they have? Toney and Golladay were no-shows; Shepard went down early; Robinson and Bellinger were rookies who got hurt just as the light bulb started to go on. Barkley was all they had. He made enough plays to stand out on this team, and had a couple of terrific games (one of which he nearly gave away by repeatedly going out of bounds); but "great"? After the Tennessee game, I didn't see greatness. I saw "very good-ness". He doesn't fumble, and his pass-blocking has improved. He's weapon in the passing game, though the numbers and drops were ugly in 2022. He doesn't break tackles like he did in 2018, and probably never will again.

I think very good is mostly what we can expect from Saquon going forward. I hope I'm wrong. That's just what I see.
RE: If anything, I think Hughes may be overly generous to Barkley.  
mfjmfj : 3/30/2023 12:44 pm : link
In comment 16078376 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
"Barkley is great right now, yes."

Is he, though? While it's true that defenses focused on stopping Barkley, was that because he's truly great, or because he was, by far, the most potent weapon on a pathetic roster? Sure, Daboll and Kafka built their gameplans around him, at least until December. What choice did they have? Toney and Golladay were no-shows; Shepard went down early; Robinson and Bellinger were rookies who got hurt just as the light bulb started to go on. Barkley was all they had. He made enough plays to stand out on this team, and had a couple of terrific games (one of which he nearly gave away by repeatedly going out of bounds); but "great"? After the Tennessee game, I didn't see greatness. I saw "very good-ness". He doesn't fumble, and his pass-blocking has improved. He's weapon in the passing game, though the numbers and drops were ugly in 2022. He doesn't break tackles like he did in 2018, and probably never will again.

I think very good is mostly what we can expect from Saquon going forward. I hope I'm wrong. That's just what I see.


Agree with this 1,000%. SB is still very good. He had a truly great game against TN. But he is not great.
No issue with SB  
JonC : 3/30/2023 12:47 pm : link
but I hope they got it right with Jones.
RE: RE: If anything, I think Hughes may be overly generous to Barkley.  
allstarjim : 3/30/2023 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16078473 mfjmfj said:
Quote:
In comment 16078376 Big Blue Blogger said:


Quote:


"Barkley is great right now, yes."

Is he, though? While it's true that defenses focused on stopping Barkley, was that because he's truly great, or because he was, by far, the most potent weapon on a pathetic roster? Sure, Daboll and Kafka built their gameplans around him, at least until December. What choice did they have? Toney and Golladay were no-shows; Shepard went down early; Robinson and Bellinger were rookies who got hurt just as the light bulb started to go on. Barkley was all they had. He made enough plays to stand out on this team, and had a couple of terrific games (one of which he nearly gave away by repeatedly going out of bounds); but "great"? After the Tennessee game, I didn't see greatness. I saw "very good-ness". He doesn't fumble, and his pass-blocking has improved. He's weapon in the passing game, though the numbers and drops were ugly in 2022. He doesn't break tackles like he did in 2018, and probably never will again.

I think very good is mostly what we can expect from Saquon going forward. I hope I'm wrong. That's just what I see.



Agree with this 1,000%. SB is still very good. He had a truly great game against TN. But he is not great.


We disagree. Sadly. Saquon has had struggles, but look at when he's had them...I'm not talking his injury years or his recovery year of 2021. I'm talking 2022. It's when the blocking fell apart. Neal and Bellinger went down at the same time, missed I think 6 games all concurrently, and the blocking wasn't there.

It was that and the fact that after the Houston game, he was hurting with that shoulder injury.

When it is, he's a force. I don't care how good you are, when you have multiple free rushers in the backfield, you're going to be stopped. You need at least 5 guys making effective blocks for a run play to work, at minimum. I think this is a point many on BBI don't take enough into account when evaluating Saquon. And even with the problems they had upfront, he was 7th in scrimmage yards and 4th in rushing last year.

And it also needs to be noted that they didn't have WRs that can threaten teams deep, and/or teams do not respect Jones to beat them that way...which leads to heavier boxes.

If the Giants can solve these issues, Saquon can put up 2000+ scrimmage yards, as he did in his rookie season, with good health.

The strategy by the front office is a good one. No extension this year is fine, and they can re-evaluate again after the season.
Barkley's value transcends skill/effort level  
arniefez : 3/30/2023 4:13 pm : link
is something a Mara would write and complete nonsense. I would bet that if the Giants didn't tag him wherever he signed it would be for less than 10 million.

He's a 6th year RB with a long injury history who has lost a step. He's not 2018 Barkley anymore. Thankfully the Giants did well enough last year to keep the Mara Bros and Nephew neutered for the time being.

The video interviews with John Mara & Joe Schoen this week were very enlightening for me.

Anyone that watches the video of John Mara and thinks he has willingly stepped back from his position as CEO/GM is pretty naive IMO.

As far as Schoen goes - it could be just me - but he seemed a little less comfortable answering questions than I've seen before. I still thought he did well and he challenged the reporter who said Barkley was underpaid at 10M. In 2023 cash earnings the only RB who will make 1M+ more than Barkley is McCaffery who will be paid 12M. Barkley is right where he should be.

I think he should have signed the contract the Giants offered him. It would not surprise me at all if the GM and HC are relieved they were able to tag him and go a year at a time.
RE: Barkley's value transcends skill/effort level  
ZoneXDOA : 3/30/2023 5:43 pm : link
In comment 16078699 arniefez said:
Quote:
is something a Mara would write and complete nonsense. I would bet that if the Giants didn't tag him wherever he signed it would be for less than 10 million.

He's a 6th year RB with a long injury history who has lost a step. He's not 2018 Barkley anymore. Thankfully the Giants did well enough last year to keep the Mara Bros and Nephew neutered for the time being.

The video interviews with John Mara & Joe Schoen this week were very enlightening for me.

Anyone that watches the video of John Mara and thinks he has willingly stepped back from his position as CEO/GM is pretty naive IMO.

As far as Schoen goes - it could be just me - but he seemed a little less comfortable answering questions than I've seen before. I still thought he did well and he challenged the reporter who said Barkley was underpaid at 10M. In 2023 cash earnings the only RB who will make 1M+ more than Barkley is McCaffery who will be paid 12M. Barkley is right where he should be.

I think he should have signed the contract the Giants offered him. It would not surprise me at all if the GM and HC are relieved they were able to tag him and go a year at a time.


My guy... get bent. You can disagree with me. That's fine. But nothing I say is "complete nonsense". I found that disrespectful. Whether you care or not, now you know.

I'm not sure what, exactly, you understood that statement to mean, but allow me to clarify:
It doesn't mean skill and effort are not important at all. It means that having top end skill and putting everything on the field is not the end of the tape. There is more to consider. There are not more than 6 backs in this league that I would rather have running the ball for me based on skill and effort alone. There is not ONE back that I'd rather have in the locker room or on the sidelines. Barkley is rare. That's all I'm saying. That combination of skill, effort and leadership is rare. Period. You don't throw a fish like that back in the water. The market for RBs this year is not Player friendly. If Barkley wants to get paid, it's going to be in 2024, maybe, if the market improves. If not? He'll need to understand that the market is what it is. In the meantime, there is no reason to believe that the two parties have not discussed this in full and came to an agreement to use the tag to that effect.
RE: RE: Barkley's value transcends skill/effort level  
allstarjim : 3/31/2023 10:13 am : link
In comment 16078762 ZoneXDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 16078699 arniefez said:


Quote:


is something a Mara would write and complete nonsense. I would bet that if the Giants didn't tag him wherever he signed it would be for less than 10 million.

He's a 6th year RB with a long injury history who has lost a step. He's not 2018 Barkley anymore. Thankfully the Giants did well enough last year to keep the Mara Bros and Nephew neutered for the time being.

The video interviews with John Mara & Joe Schoen this week were very enlightening for me.

Anyone that watches the video of John Mara and thinks he has willingly stepped back from his position as CEO/GM is pretty naive IMO.

As far as Schoen goes - it could be just me - but he seemed a little less comfortable answering questions than I've seen before. I still thought he did well and he challenged the reporter who said Barkley was underpaid at 10M. In 2023 cash earnings the only RB who will make 1M+ more than Barkley is McCaffery who will be paid 12M. Barkley is right where he should be.

I think he should have signed the contract the Giants offered him. It would not surprise me at all if the GM and HC are relieved they were able to tag him and go a year at a time.



My guy... get bent. You can disagree with me. That's fine. But nothing I say is "complete nonsense". I found that disrespectful. Whether you care or not, now you know.

I'm not sure what, exactly, you understood that statement to mean, but allow me to clarify:
It doesn't mean skill and effort are not important at all. It means that having top end skill and putting everything on the field is not the end of the tape. There is more to consider. There are not more than 6 backs in this league that I would rather have running the ball for me based on skill and effort alone. There is not ONE back that I'd rather have in the locker room or on the sidelines. Barkley is rare. That's all I'm saying. That combination of skill, effort and leadership is rare. Period. You don't throw a fish like that back in the water. The market for RBs this year is not Player friendly. If Barkley wants to get paid, it's going to be in 2024, maybe, if the market improves. If not? He'll need to understand that the market is what it is. In the meantime, there is no reason to believe that the two parties have not discussed this in full and came to an agreement to use the tag to that effect.


Arnie is repeating a mantra that I've read on BBI a few times: "Barkley has lost a step."

Based on what exactly? Because he ran 21.11 MPH on a run this season, per NextGen stats. That's legit 4.3ish to low 4.4 speed.

By October 7th it was still the 5th fastest speed recorded by NextGen by any ballcarrier on the season (including receivers).

To put it in further perspective, Tony Pollard, who everyone acknowledges is super fast, recorded his top speed on the season in early December, per NextGen...21.17 mph. Barkley at 21.11, Pollard at 21.17.

Barkley is still one of the fastest RBs in the game.

Lost a step? He's just getting started.
RE: RE: RE: Barkley's value transcends skill/effort level  
ZoneXDOA : 3/31/2023 2:20 pm : link
In comment 16079018 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 16078762 ZoneXDOA said:


Quote:


In comment 16078699 arniefez said:


Quote:


is something a Mara would write and complete nonsense. I would bet that if the Giants didn't tag him wherever he signed it would be for less than 10 million.

He's a 6th year RB with a long injury history who has lost a step. He's not 2018 Barkley anymore. Thankfully the Giants did well enough last year to keep the Mara Bros and Nephew neutered for the time being.

The video interviews with John Mara & Joe Schoen this week were very enlightening for me.

Anyone that watches the video of John Mara and thinks he has willingly stepped back from his position as CEO/GM is pretty naive IMO.

As far as Schoen goes - it could be just me - but he seemed a little less comfortable answering questions than I've seen before. I still thought he did well and he challenged the reporter who said Barkley was underpaid at 10M. In 2023 cash earnings the only RB who will make 1M+ more than Barkley is McCaffery who will be paid 12M. Barkley is right where he should be.

I think he should have signed the contract the Giants offered him. It would not surprise me at all if the GM and HC are relieved they were able to tag him and go a year at a time.



My guy... get bent. You can disagree with me. That's fine. But nothing I say is "complete nonsense". I found that disrespectful. Whether you care or not, now you know.

I'm not sure what, exactly, you understood that statement to mean, but allow me to clarify:
It doesn't mean skill and effort are not important at all. It means that having top end skill and putting everything on the field is not the end of the tape. There is more to consider. There are not more than 6 backs in this league that I would rather have running the ball for me based on skill and effort alone. There is not ONE back that I'd rather have in the locker room or on the sidelines. Barkley is rare. That's all I'm saying. That combination of skill, effort and leadership is rare. Period. You don't throw a fish like that back in the water. The market for RBs this year is not Player friendly. If Barkley wants to get paid, it's going to be in 2024, maybe, if the market improves. If not? He'll need to understand that the market is what it is. In the meantime, there is no reason to believe that the two parties have not discussed this in full and came to an agreement to use the tag to that effect.



Arnie is repeating a mantra that I've read on BBI a few times: "Barkley has lost a step."

Based on what exactly? Because he ran 21.11 MPH on a run this season, per NextGen stats. That's legit 4.3ish to low 4.4 speed.

By October 7th it was still the 5th fastest speed recorded by NextGen by any ballcarrier on the season (including receivers).

To put it in further perspective, Tony Pollard, who everyone acknowledges is super fast, recorded his top speed on the season in early December, per NextGen...21.17 mph. Barkley at 21.11, Pollard at 21.17.

Barkley is still one of the fastest RBs in the game.

Lost a step? He's just getting started.
Wow! I wasn't aware of that! Thanks for that info!
Transcending skill/effort  
The Dude : 3/31/2023 2:24 pm : link
is right out of the Mara or Gettleman playbook. If either were in charge Saquon would have gotten a Zeke type contract adjusted for inflation.

don't negotiate emotionally, NYG in good hands with Schoen.
His top speed in 2018 was 21.91 MPH.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/31/2023 4:36 pm : link
So even at 21.11, he hadn't fully regained his rookie speed; but the Saquon who beat Tennessee was plenty fast. More importantly, his top speed on a rare breakaway run in December/January was about 2 MPH slower. We all know he wore down as the season progressed, and it wasn't just his shoulder.

I was more troubled by his inability to break tackles. Yes, the line stunk, but even when he found a hole and reached the second level, Barkley went down on first contact too often for a superstar running back. The stats bear it out: among the League's top backs, he broke the fewest tackles.
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