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The Giants had Dinner with Quentin Johnson Last Night

gidiefor : Mod : 3/30/2023 10:34 am
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
Giants continue to do homework on the draft’s top receivers. This time GM Joe Schoen and coach Brian Daboll had dinner last night with WR Quentin Johnston ahead of TCU’s Pro Day on Thursday, per source.

Johnston’s in the running to be the first WR selected in this year’s draft.
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RE: I think Colin’s thinking  
AcidTest : 3/30/2023 1:22 pm : link
In comment 16078451 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
is flawed. If you think WR is your best value at 25 because there are SEVERAL you would assess as good value there, then you get to know those several players and see how the draft falls. CB, for Rd 1, is a fall back. The value may be better in rd 2.
QJ may be the first WR taken or the 3rd or 4th depending on whose mock you are looking at. 3rd should be around 25.


+1. Although JSN will almost certainly be long gone by #25, the Giants don't know which of the other WRs will still be available. So they have to talk to all of them. I don't think they trade more than a three to move up for anyone, Including a WR.
It's cute  
Thegratefulhead : 3/30/2023 1:23 pm : link
That some people think the only option is picking at 25.
RE: It's cute  
JonC : 3/30/2023 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16078514 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
That some people think the only option is picking at 25.


It never goes away. Been here since the beginning in '95, it never. Goes. Away.

Fill biggest perceived hole or else!
RE: I posted  
cosmicj : 3/30/2023 1:25 pm : link
In comment 16078434 Y28 said:
Quote:
this article previously.

But it is worth reading if any have not seen it.

Its from a former NFL scout that has some real questions about Quentin Johnson in Round 1

Probably most of us watched the Georgia/TCU game. Hard not remember what Georgia did to Johnson that night.

1 catch for 3 yards. A complete non factor. Link - ( New Window )


That scouting report is actually more worrisome for comments not related to the last BCS championship game. That’s one game. But QJ was invisible against some second rate teams throughout his career.
I think there are red flags with him  
AcesUp : 3/30/2023 1:42 pm : link
I'm not sure he's ever going to be that multi-dimensional #1 from the X position that people envision when looking at the size/speed. He didn't win like most big WRs do in college, he's not going to be able to take a hitch and turn around with open grass in the NFL as he did in the Big 12. He was inconsistent deep in a conference known for giving up the big play. So I think the most likely path for him is a guy that can threaten deep but doesn't win consistently there and primarily produces on drags and crossers. So similar to Slayton this past season with a little more size and YAC potential. Now, this is coming from somebody that thinks Slayton and his skillset is underrated here, so that package may still be worth 25. Especially leaving room for error at a premium position and the potential for coaching to smooth out his deficiencies a little. However, I prefer JSN, Flowers and Addison at WR. QJ is maybe where I start scoping out that 2nd shelf of CBs and whatever Edge/DL talent is on the board.
RE: RE: RE: This is the receiver I would like to see them draft  
k2tampa : 3/30/2023 1:56 pm : link
In comment 16078475 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 16078447 k2tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 16078331 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


I wouldn’t even mind a trade up if they don’t have to give up anything crazy. If he didn’t have some drop issues in college he’d probably be a top 5 pick.



Pretty funny. Drop issues "in college"? You seem to think they are going to disappear in the pros. He catches with his body. Like Slayton and Robinson. Watch his highlight videos. He uses his body on virtually every catch.

Without the drop issues in college he would be a top 5 pick? Every year there are probably 10 WRs who would be a top 5 pick if they could catch the ball consistently. It's kind of a key part of playing the position.

I wouldn't mind him if the draft falls that way. But I worry he becomes the WR version of Evan Engram. Great athlete who tantalizes you with glimpses of greatness with a spattering of balls bouncing off his hands, some into the waiting arms of DBS. No way do I think they should trade up for him.

And while the crossing route against Michigan was fantastic, it was more than wiped out by the 1 catch for zero yards performance against Georgia.



It seemed Engram just ran in a straight line fast. QJ definitely is a better all around athlete, his explosion numbers were elite and looks it on tape. But yeah the hands...


Yep, Engram wasn't as good an athlete, but he was a TE. His athletic profile for tight ends compares favorably to Johnston's for receivers. Engram might even be more of an outliers when you look at it that way.
RE: I think there are red flags with him  
bw in dc : 3/30/2023 2:21 pm : link
In comment 16078540 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I'm not sure he's ever going to be that multi-dimensional #1 from the X position that people envision when looking at the size/speed. He didn't win like most big WRs do in college, he's not going to be able to take a hitch and turn around with open grass in the NFL as he did in the Big 12. He was inconsistent deep in a conference known for giving up the big play. So I think the most likely path for him is a guy that can threaten deep but doesn't win consistently there and primarily produces on drags and crossers. So similar to Slayton this past season with a little more size and YAC potential. Now, this is coming from somebody that thinks Slayton and his skillset is underrated here, so that package may still be worth 25. Especially leaving room for error at a premium position and the potential for coaching to smooth out his deficiencies a little. However, I prefer JSN, Flowers and Addison at WR. QJ is maybe where I start scoping out that 2nd shelf of CBs and whatever Edge/DL talent is on the board.


That's a very solid analysis on QJ. Well done.

I see a WR prospect with too many question marks to validate a day one investment. His value is better qualified as a late day two prospect.
RE: I posted  
butler : 3/30/2023 2:22 pm : link
In comment 16078434 Y28 said:
Quote:
this article previously.

Probably most of us watched the Georgia/TCU game. Hard not remember what Georgia did to Johnson that night.

1 catch for 3 yards. A complete non factor. Link - ( New Window )


I have to admit I missed this game but Georgia shuts down a lot of guys who end up being pretty good. There were quite a few people knocking Hutchinson in the draft last year because he wasn't a factor against them, but he ended being Rookie of the Year.
RE: RE: It's cute  
Thegratefulhead : 3/30/2023 2:31 pm : link
In comment 16078517 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16078514 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


That some people think the only option is picking at 25.



It never goes away. Been here since the beginning in '95, it never. Goes. Away.

Fill biggest perceived hole or else!
Jon, we can definitely have a different discussion about what should happen vs what is happening. The only problem with being aggressive is when you are wrong. I am glad they are doing their homework. I do not believe this team will overpay to move up. However, I also think they should get their guy if they can. They exceeded expectations last year, they know what they have now. They should know what they need to reach the next level. If they really want a WR1 they should go get him, if they have conviction and the cost makes sense. We must sit and take BPA is fiction to me. It is the 'must" I have issue with.
They should go get their guy, but keep your #1-2 picks  
JonC : 3/30/2023 3:02 pm : link
including futures. I'd prefer CB from this crop, but they've got a lot of jobs at stake based on their decisions and they're moving up the timeline with this team.
Jon...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/30/2023 3:17 pm : link
...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?
That article by kelly is Trash  
BigBlueCane : 3/30/2023 3:19 pm : link

putting aside that 2020 was a shortened season where everyone's routine was disrupted and changed.

Sonny Dykes, the coach who led TCU to the NC game, took over in 2021 and has only coached there for one year in 2022.

Meachem, the previous TCU OC, coached under Gary Patterson who was more of a defensive guy.

And yes Georgia got aggressive with him. they could do so b/c they VASTLY out-talented TCU. There are Horned Frogs starters who struggle to crack to the 2nd string at Georgia, there's that big of a talent difference.

Not to mention Georgia having way more coaches and "analysts" who help the players on and off the field then TCU could ever dream of affording.

What a shit article.
RE: Jon...  
JonC : 3/30/2023 3:22 pm : link
In comment 16078637 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?


Sure, you just have to temper expectations as to how far up. I could see NYG trading up a handful of spots in return for their #3 pick. I wouldn't expect them to move up into the top 15.
RE: RE: I posted  
PatersonPlank : 3/30/2023 3:36 pm : link
In comment 16078588 butler said:
Quote:
In comment 16078434 Y28 said:


Quote:


this article previously.

Probably most of us watched the Georgia/TCU game. Hard not remember what Georgia did to Johnson that night.

1 catch for 3 yards. A complete non factor. Link - ( New Window )



I have to admit I missed this game but Georgia shuts down a lot of guys who end up being pretty good. There were quite a few people knocking Hutchinson in the draft last year because he wasn't a factor against them, but he ended being Rookie of the Year.


I agree, this is a silly argument. Georgia dominated TCU at every position. One player, who is dependent on others to get the ball, isn't playing 1 on 11 vs Georgia.

I really don't get the QJ bashing, he's a damn good WR who could/should be a major player in the NFL. He's got size, speed, and has shown great college productivity (So he's not a combine stats type guy). I like him a lot. Sure, there seems to be a core 3-4 Wrs in this group so who knows who will be the best, but I like QJ and TSN the best.
RE: RE: Jon...  
section125 : 3/30/2023 3:42 pm : link
In comment 16078642 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16078637 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?



Sure, you just have to temper expectations as to how far up. I could see NYG trading up a handful of spots in return for their #3 pick. I wouldn't expect them to move up into the top 15.


1 and 3 gets them to #20...according to the newest chart.
RE: RE: RE: Jon...  
Thegratefulhead : 3/30/2023 3:55 pm : link
In comment 16078670 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16078642 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 16078637 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?



Sure, you just have to temper expectations as to how far up. I could see NYG trading up a handful of spots in return for their #3 pick. I wouldn't expect them to move up into the top 15.



1 and 3 gets them to #20...according to the newest chart.
This precisely the calculus I expect the Giants are engaging in. Team is too devoid of talent to give up a 1 or 2. I could definitely see them tapping into a future's year's draft capital if they really want someone. I think they go no farther than 15. I think it costs to much to go up otherwise.
Don't Want Johnston  
Jim in Tampa : 3/30/2023 4:07 pm : link
He's a body catcher who doesn't get separation.

Jones needs quick receivers who can get separation as opposed to WRs like Johnston who is more of a contested catch WR.
Grateful grateful  
Colin@gbn : 3/30/2023 5:02 pm : link
Thank you for the very kind words grateful. Love the draft, love talking the draft, and especially love talking Giants draft. But I have to admit it is getting frustrating and I have begun to question what's the point of posting here. I have followed the draft for over 50 years and have come to recognize that its something of a game of 3D chess. And the fun part for me, especially as it relates to the Giants, is reading the tea leaves and trying to figure what they're thinking, where they're leaning. Sometimes we figure it out, sometimes we don't. But we always try and learn from each cycle.

What's frustrating is not that people disagree; the whole point is to get a discussion going, but its that on this site the vast of posters almost reflexively leap to their personal default positions and literally start screaming 'no, no, no the Giants draft the same way I do. They're going to sit their and see who's left at 25 and take the BPA.

And the one thing I can say with almost certainty is that NFL teams, and especially the Giants, don't draft that way. In fact, teams go into the draft with one of two basic approaches. Either they are going to have a short list of players they really like. We could even surmise if that's what the Giants were doing this year that their short list might include players like DEs Keion White or Ade Adebawore, WR Flowers, CB Banks, LB Simpson, and even G Torrence. And they would have them ranked in order of preference.

The other way is to go into the draft targeting a specific position. In fact the Giants have done that roughly half the time in the past couple of decades (2001 - CB, 2003 - DL, 2007 - DB, 2009- WR, 2014 - WR or OL; 2015 - OT, 2018 - QB, 2020 - OT, although sometimes like 2018 they didn't necessarily get what they were looking for.)

And only a blind person who doesn't want to see what's in front of him is not going to accept that the Giants are pretty all over WR this year.

Why: well let's review. The Giants have a #1 QB, they have a #1 RB; they have a pair of top 10 OTs; they've got a DL with three #1s and a #2, they have a #1 safety; heck they even have a #1 CB. The one position they do not have a #1 guy is at WR. And they can look around the NFL and see that every really good team has a #1 receiver; in fact, all the really good teams have 2-3 really good receivers. They can also look around the league and see the literally transformative impact getting a top WR had in places like Buffalo, Cincinnati and Philly. Then there's the Giants own recent history. We won the 7/11 Super Bowls largely on the back of a good QB (playing the best football of his life) throwing to a pair of elite receivers groups (Plax, Toomer and Smith in 07 and Nicks, Cruz and Manninghan in 11).

But another than all that who the fuck really needs an elite receiver?
RE: RE: RE: Jon...  
JonC : 3/30/2023 5:11 pm : link
In comment 16078670 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16078642 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 16078637 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?



Sure, you just have to temper expectations as to how far up. I could see NYG trading up a handful of spots in return for their #3 pick. I wouldn't expect them to move up into the top 15.



1 and 3 gets them to #20...according to the newest chart.


Ouch, that sounds awfully new ... and prohibitive.
Some  
Y28 : 3/30/2023 5:50 pm : link
Giants TCU Pro Day video
Link - ( New Window )
And this  
Y28 : 3/30/2023 5:51 pm : link
Jim Nagy
@JimNagy_SB
·
1h
Got texts from three different scouts who were at TCU pro-day and all had projected first round WR Quentin Johnston in 4.51-4.54 range on his two 40-yd runs.

Johnston did not run at Combine.
and  
Y28 : 3/30/2023 5:52 pm : link
this as well.
Link - ( New Window )
QJ  
cosmicj : 3/30/2023 5:57 pm : link
I know 40 times aren’t everything but Johnson was expected to run sub 4.4 (which surprised me based on his game tape) and actually ran a 4.5 at the TCU Pro Day. Some of the bigger WRs who have entered the NFL are faster. Chase Claypool ran 4.4. 2nd round. Alec Pierce 4.4. 2nd rd. Metcalf - Johnson’s analogue - ran a fricking 4.33. 2nd rd.

I know people were gushing over Johnson’s explosion at the drills at the combine but to me he doesn’t look like this incredible athlete when he’s actually on the field.

Then there are the drops. Did you know Johnson dropped two straight long passes in the drills at the Pro Day? No DBs, empty field.

Can I make the audacious suggestion that Schoen and Daboll were interviewing QJ as a possibility in the 2nd rd? I just don’t see how this guy is a first rounder.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jon...  
ThomasG : 3/30/2023 6:35 pm : link
In comment 16078742 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16078670 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 16078642 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 16078637 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?



Sure, you just have to temper expectations as to how far up. I could see NYG trading up a handful of spots in return for their #3 pick. I wouldn't expect them to move up into the top 15.



1 and 3 gets them to #20...according to the newest chart.



Ouch, that sounds awfully new ... and prohibitive.


Gambling with a Day 2 pick to move up for a marginally higher-evaluated WR (or quite possibly even the same WR that would be available at 25) makes little sense.

If the spreads in Schoen's evaluations are that wide on receivers then maybe you can support the move but that it still screams desperation. And that usually leads to bad business decisions.

Johnston reminds me of Amani Toomer  
mittenedman : 3/30/2023 6:48 pm : link
so much. A big body catcher with deceptive speed and run after the catch ability.

I don't think he's the perfect fit for Daboll's offense though. But obviously, they like him.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/30/2023 6:52 pm : link
What's the consensus...will Flowers be there @ 25? I liked him whenever I watched BC.
RE: Grateful grateful  
AcidTest : 3/30/2023 7:20 pm : link
In comment 16078733 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Thank you for the very kind words grateful. Love the draft, love talking the draft, and especially love talking Giants draft. But I have to admit it is getting frustrating and I have begun to question what's the point of posting here. I have followed the draft for over 50 years and have come to recognize that its something of a game of 3D chess. And the fun part for me, especially as it relates to the Giants, is reading the tea leaves and trying to figure what they're thinking, where they're leaning. Sometimes we figure it out, sometimes we don't. But we always try and learn from each cycle.

What's frustrating is not that people disagree; the whole point is to get a discussion going, but its that on this site the vast of posters almost reflexively leap to their personal default positions and literally start screaming 'no, no, no the Giants draft the same way I do. They're going to sit their and see who's left at 25 and take the BPA.

And the one thing I can say with almost certainty is that NFL teams, and especially the Giants, don't draft that way. In fact, teams go into the draft with one of two basic approaches. Either they are going to have a short list of players they really like. We could even surmise if that's what the Giants were doing this year that their short list might include players like DEs Keion White or Ade Adebawore, WR Flowers, CB Banks, LB Simpson, and even G Torrence. And they would have them ranked in order of preference.

The other way is to go into the draft targeting a specific position. In fact the Giants have done that roughly half the time in the past couple of decades (2001 - CB, 2003 - DL, 2007 - DB, 2009- WR, 2014 - WR or OL; 2015 - OT, 2018 - QB, 2020 - OT, although sometimes like 2018 they didn't necessarily get what they were looking for.)

And only a blind person who doesn't want to see what's in front of him is not going to accept that the Giants are pretty all over WR this year.

Why: well let's review. The Giants have a #1 QB, they have a #1 RB; they have a pair of top 10 OTs; they've got a DL with three #1s and a #2, they have a #1 safety; heck they even have a #1 CB. The one position they do not have a #1 guy is at WR. And they can look around the NFL and see that every really good team has a #1 receiver; in fact, all the really good teams have 2-3 really good receivers. They can also look around the league and see the literally transformative impact getting a top WR had in places like Buffalo, Cincinnati and Philly. Then there's the Giants own recent history. We won the 7/11 Super Bowls largely on the back of a good QB (playing the best football of his life) throwing to a pair of elite receivers groups (Plax, Toomer and Smith in 07 and Nicks, Cruz and Manninghan in 11).

But another than all that who the fuck really needs an elite receiver?


I assume this rant is largely directed at me, especially this part:

Quote:
What's frustrating is not that people disagree; the whole point is to get a discussion going, but its that on this site the vast of posters almost reflexively leap to their personal default positions and literally start screaming 'no, no, no the Giants draft the same way I do. They're going to sit their and see who's left at 25 and take the BPA.


Except I never said that. What I said is that I would be very surprised if the Giants trade more than a three to move up for any WR, but that I would be OK if they did so. I also said that having to trade anything more would prompt then to instead stay at #25 and take the BPA, whether that is a WR or any other position. I don’t share your view that the Giants will or should trade a nearly unlimited amount of draft capital (two and a three or next year’s one) to move up for any WR, which apparently makes me an idiot worthy of being denounced with the “f” word.

You are the one who is insisting that the Giants “draft the same way I do” because you’ve decided that the Giants will not only draft a WR in round one, but will also be willing to trade a huge amount of draft capital to do so. That’s what you would do, so that’s what they will do. You also seem to be personally offended with anyone who has a different opinion. I am not offended by your opinion. I simply think it’s unlikely you’re right.

I’m going to let you have the last word. I grew up with a vulgar, violent, drunk who regularly carpet bombed me with “f” bombs, so my "default position" is to walk away from anyone who uses that word. This is a sports board. Maybe you should remember that.
Acid  
Colin@gbn : 3/30/2023 7:29 pm : link
Just to be clear my points and I very much stand by them were not in any way directed at you personally. They were directed at the board generally. And not necessarily even just this topic. On Monday John Mara had a short press conference and provided one newsworthy, albeit small message. On behalf of the Giants he sent a little message to Odell and his people that the Giants were still interested, but only at their price. If he didn't get his price they'd be more than happy to talk. Again not huge but it is the first real clarification that the Giants are still in on Odell. There were over 150 posts (at my last count) on Mara's presser and NOT ONE picked up on the one bit of breaking news there. So what is the point?
RE: And this  
bw in dc : 3/30/2023 7:37 pm : link
In comment 16078773 Y28 said:
Quote:
Jim Nagy
@JimNagy_SB
·
1h
Got texts from three different scouts who were at TCU pro-day and all had projected first round WR Quentin Johnston in 4.51-4.54 range on his two 40-yd runs.

Johnston did not run at Combine.


That's much, much slower than expected.
"Body catcher...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/30/2023 7:44 pm : link
...?"

What I see is a guy that will go get the football but sometimes he has his pinkies together instead of his thumbs.
He is effective catching that way but it does require the ball to get closer to his body in order for him to secure it.

This is correct and I'm surprised it wasn't corrected when he was in high school.
I haven't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/30/2023 7:46 pm : link
dived into the draft yet. I've just been watching video highlights to get a feel for how some of these guys move as athletes.

Very preliminary thoughts are that Jaxon lacks speed... Flowers is just lightning in a bottle... Johnson moves very well for a big guy.
Eric  
cosmicj : 3/30/2023 7:49 pm : link
Watching Johnson play, I had the exact opposite reaction, that he looks slow and clumsy. And that’s what his time at the TCU Pro Day indicated, too.
RE: Eric  
bw in dc : 3/30/2023 8:26 pm : link
In comment 16078840 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Watching Johnson play, I had the exact opposite reaction, that he looks slow and clumsy. And that’s what his time at the TCU Pro Day indicated, too.


I see it similarly. QJ seems like a very solid Big 12 WR who is also hard to evaluate because the Big 12 recruits parking cones for defenders.

I will say this. I don't hold his quiet outing against Georgia against him because the TCU OL was completely overwhelmed.

I think the two most underrated WRs in this draft are Tillman and Downs. I've been re-watching some Drake Maye and Downs always jumps out. He is Steve Smith fearless. And Tillman is just a big, bodied stud who has the potential to be the best WR taken if things click.
Not crazy about Johnson tbh  
j_rud : 3/30/2023 8:33 pm : link
Prefer Flowers, JSN, probably Addison as well. Think they're better fits in this offense.
RE: RE: Eric  
AcidTest : 3/30/2023 8:46 pm : link
In comment 16078861 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16078840 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Watching Johnson play, I had the exact opposite reaction, that he looks slow and clumsy. And that’s what his time at the TCU Pro Day indicated, too.



I see it similarly. QJ seems like a very solid Big 12 WR who is also hard to evaluate because the Big 12 recruits parking cones for defenders.

I will say this. I don't hold his quiet outing against Georgia against him because the TCU OL was completely overwhelmed.

I think the two most underrated WRs in this draft are Tillman and Downs. I've been re-watching some Drake Maye and Downs always jumps out. He is Steve Smith fearless. And Tillman is just a big, bodied stud who has the potential to be the best WR taken if things click.


Totally agree.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/30/2023 8:48 pm : link
In comment 16078840 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Watching Johnson play, I had the exact opposite reaction, that he looks slow and clumsy. And that’s what his time at the TCU Pro Day indicated, too.


For a 6'4'', 215-pound receiver? I'll watch more, but I saw him running away from defenders. He also had pretty quick feet for a tall guy with long legs.
Asshut info…  
knowledgetimmons : 3/30/2023 8:56 pm : link
My sources tell me that Johnston’s mom prefers Pizza Hut rather than NY style pizza and even considers Chicago deep dish, as well. Schoen and Doboll quickly called for the check after discovering this troubling news.

I fear he may have been removed from the board altogether.
I agree with Colin as to the Giant's draft strategy  
Rod in St Cloud : 3/30/2023 9:30 pm : link
I believe they are targeting WR as their top priority, but not their only priority. They also need to target CB as their 2nd most important priority. My guess is they have Flowers, Njigba, and Johnson ranked 1, 2, and 3. As the draft unfolds once there begins the run on WRs, then if 2 of the 3 are gone, they will have to consider trading up to get the last of their 3 top WRs. If they determine the cost is too great or no one will trade with them, then they are left with drafting their choice of their top 5 CBS.

I am guessing they will rank them as Gonzalez, Weatherspoon, Porter, Banks, and Ringo. Gonzalez and Weatherspoon are almost certainly gone. Porter would be their next best choice if he is not gone. If Porter is within reach, they may need to trade up if its cost effective. They could wait and pick at #25 or consider a trade down and still hope for another WR or CB.

A third option might be jumping on a surprise Edge, LB, or DT that falls to them, someone who has outstanding measurables like N. Smith, A Adebawore, M Murphy, K Kancey, T Simpson, or K White.

My guess is the Giants have their hopes set on Njigba and FLowers at WR and Porter and Banks at CB as players they would consider moving up a few spots to nab. Since everyone knows the Giants are looking for a WR first and foremost, they have to move up to avoid the Devonte Smith type of drafting disaster.

If they stay at #25, then I think they are looking at Q Johnson, K Ringo, C Smith, or T Simpson.
RE: I  
TommyWiseau : 3/31/2023 8:21 am : link
In comment 16078358 AcidTest said:
Quote:
wouldn't hate taking him at #25, but would much prefer JSN, Flowers, Hyatt, or Addison. Tillman in the second or Perry in the third would also be better value IMO.


Honestly, I would not mind one of them in round 1 and another WR in round 2 or 3. We need talent at the position.
RE: I haven't  
barens : 3/31/2023 8:50 am : link
In comment 16078838 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
dived into the draft yet. I've just been watching video highlights to get a feel for how some of these guys move as athletes.

Very preliminary thoughts are that Jaxon lacks speed... Flowers is just lightning in a bottle... Johnson moves very well for a big guy.


Keep in mind, when you are watching JSN, you are watching his sophomore year highlights.
barens  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/31/2023 8:53 am : link
But did he get faster?

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but he looks like a slot guy to me who doesn't run very fast.
2 sides of mouth  
mittenedman : 3/31/2023 8:59 am : link
It’s funny, everyone knocks JSN while simultaneously saying he’s arguably the best WR in the class. It’s about talent.
RE: RE: I haven't  
RCPhoenix : 3/31/2023 9:06 am : link
In comment 16078953 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 16078838 Eric from BBI said:


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dived into the draft yet. I've just been watching video highlights to get a feel for how some of these guys move as athletes.

Very preliminary thoughts are that Jaxon lacks speed... Flowers is just lightning in a bottle... Johnson moves very well for a big guy.



Keep in mind, when you are watching JSN, you are watching his sophomore year highlights.


JSN catches the ball with his hands, unlike Johnston. He doesn't look slow on any highlight film I've seen, or in Ohio State games I watched in 2021.

If JSN had been healthy this past season, I have little doubt he'd be a top 10 pick in this draft. If healthy he's the best of this bunch. Consider that his sophomore year he was arguably the best WR on a team that had Olave and Wilson - two of the top rookie WRs in the NFL last year.

If JSN is healthy and is there at #25 he's probably the pick. But I doubt he falls that far.

On a 3rd and 19 play against Michigan in 2021 he made this catch that I still don't know how he made - see link:

JSN catch vs Michigan - ( New Window )
RE: barens  
barens : 3/31/2023 9:19 am : link
In comment 16078955 Eric from BBI said:
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But did he get faster?

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but he looks like a slot guy to me who doesn't run very fast.


I hear you, but my point is, I remember when Micah Parsons came out, we could only watch his sophomore year highlights, and what you saw then was not what you saw now. I know it's apples and oranges, but yeah, I think players can move faster from 1 year to the next, especially from their sophomore year in college to their junior year.
Giants would be very lucky to get JSN.  
mittenedman : 3/31/2023 10:27 am : link
He's an elite football player, just not a pure deep threat. Reminds me of a mix between Steve Smith and Victor Cruz.

We're at the time of year where all these guys are under a microscope getting their flaws pointed out. JSN has been reduced to "not fast, not an outside WR".

This guy has elite quickness and burst and elite YAC ability. He'd immediately erase missing out on Devonta Smith and he's at least as good, if not better.
RE: Grateful grateful  
D HOS : 3/31/2023 11:44 am : link
In comment 16078733 Colin@gbn said:
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what's the point of posting here.


For the dozens, maybe hundreds of people who look for, read and appreciate your opinions, but don't participate because they don't want to get involved in the arguments?

I always look for what you have to say.
RE: Giants would be very lucky to get JSN.  
RCPhoenix : 3/31/2023 12:00 pm : link
In comment 16079042 mittenedman said:
Quote:
He's an elite football player, just not a pure deep threat. Reminds me of a mix between Steve Smith and Victor Cruz.

We're at the time of year where all these guys are under a microscope getting their flaws pointed out. JSN has been reduced to "not fast, not an outside WR".

This guy has elite quickness and burst and elite YAC ability. He'd immediately erase missing out on Devonta Smith and he's at least as good, if not better.


Everyone obsesses about 40 yard times, and based on that, neither JSN nor Johnston are barn burners. The 40 yard dash is one of the most overrated metrics to measure success at the WR level (or for any position in the NFL, for that matter). Quickness, agility, stop and start speed, balance, route running, and hands are much, much more important to determine whether or not a WR will succeed at the next level. You need to watch game tape to determine that, and to me JSN excels in all of these areas.
Play speed  
mittenedman : 3/31/2023 2:12 pm : link
agreed RC - JSN is just playing a step ahead of everyone. He really does remind me of Devonta Smith in his overall skill level. He does all the little things and he's got great hands - and he's a more powerful presence on the field than Smith. (YAC ability, blocking).
BTW  
mittenedman : 3/31/2023 2:13 pm : link
I don't think Devonta Smith ever ran the 40. I went back to compare their times and I couldn't find it.
When I watch QJ, I can't help but  
Dave on the UWS : 3/31/2023 2:57 pm : link
think of DK MetcaLf. And as far as body catching goes, Toomer was a body catcher, who had to learn to use his hands better. Look at the career he had. Johnston is FAR from a finished product. But I see a ton of potential. He doesn't look like he's very fast, but he runs away from defenders. His play speed seems to be greater than his timed speed. Schoen and Daboll have said tape is what is most important to them.
If he's coachable, then his weak points can be greatly improved. You can't coach 6-3 and 215. These other guys will never be that.
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