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The Giants had Dinner with Quentin Johnson Last Night

gidiefor : Mod : 3/30/2023 10:34 am
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
Giants continue to do homework on the draft’s top receivers. This time GM Joe Schoen and coach Brian Daboll had dinner last night with WR Quentin Johnston ahead of TCU’s Pro Day on Thursday, per source.

Johnston’s in the running to be the first WR selected in this year’s draft.
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That's my choice  
Anakim : 3/30/2023 10:38 am : link
.
Loaded with tools  
JonC : 3/30/2023 10:40 am : link
He's the intriguing WR for me along with Flowers.
This is the receiver I would like to see them draft  
eric2425ny : 3/30/2023 10:41 am : link
I wouldn’t even mind a trade up if they don’t have to give up anything crazy. If he didn’t have some drop issues in college he’d probably be a top 5 pick.
Johnston checks all the boxes. He could and probably should be the  
Ira : 3/30/2023 10:42 am : link
first receiver drafted.
RE: Loaded with tools  
section125 : 3/30/2023 10:42 am : link
In comment 16078330 JonC said:
Quote:
He's the intriguing WR for me along with Flowers.


How similar is Flowers to OBJ? I think Odell was a sturdier player physically.
Looks like WR in Rd1  
Sec_149 : 3/30/2023 10:43 am : link
Either that or they are really good at smokescreens.
One of them will drop to 25, or close enough to go get.
...  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/30/2023 10:45 am : link

Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
1h
Giants now had dinners with Johnston, BC’s Zay Flowers and Ohio State’s Jaxson Smith-Njigba before their Pro Days. USC’s Jordan Addison said last week they were the most recent team he’s heard from.

Follow the crumbs. Giants pick 25th overall in the first round.
RE: RE: Loaded with tools  
JonC : 3/30/2023 10:52 am : link
In comment 16078333 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16078330 JonC said:


Quote:


He's the intriguing WR for me along with Flowers.



How similar is Flowers to OBJ? I think Odell was a sturdier player physically.


I think it's the opposite, Flowers has some Deebo to him.
I  
AcidTest : 3/30/2023 11:02 am : link
wouldn't hate taking him at #25, but would much prefer JSN, Flowers, Hyatt, or Addison. Tillman in the second or Perry in the third would also be better value IMO.
RE: RE: RE: Loaded with tools  
section125 : 3/30/2023 11:04 am : link
In comment 16078347 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16078333 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 16078330 JonC said:


Quote:


He's the intriguing WR for me along with Flowers.



How similar is Flowers to OBJ? I think Odell was a sturdier player physically.



I think it's the opposite, Flowers has some Deebo to him.


Deebo weighs 215.. 40 lbs heavier...
I have the image of him taking that short crossing  
mfsd : 3/30/2023 11:07 am : link
route 80 yards to the house against Michigan seared in my memory. Don’t know how he’d stack up against other guys potentially available at 25, but man would love to get Jones a guy like that to throw to
I prefer Addison  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/30/2023 11:08 am : link
but hey, if they like him all for it. I like that separation Addison gets.
Flowers is a mix of  
Spiciest Memelord : 3/30/2023 11:12 am : link
Cruz and Steve Smith.
When I think of the  
Dave on the UWS : 3/30/2023 11:13 am : link
quintessential WR - I keep coming back to QJ. If he last until 25, he should be the guy. There’s a ton of untapped potential there. Oils be the Giants version of DK Metcalf.
He's a shiftier  
Spiciest Memelord : 3/30/2023 11:21 am : link
Michael Thomas. Those hand concerns though... But even with that I guess you can't complain at 25.
RE: RE: RE: Loaded with tools  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/30/2023 11:23 am : link
In comment 16078347 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16078333 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 16078330 JonC said:


Quote:


He's the intriguing WR for me along with Flowers.



How similar is Flowers to OBJ? I think Odell was a sturdier player physically.



I think it's the opposite, Flowers has some Deebo to him.


I see the Deebo analogy
RE: RE: Loaded with tools  
knowledgetimmons : 3/30/2023 11:24 am : link
In comment 16078333 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16078330 JonC said:

Quote:


How similar is Flowers to OBJ? I think Odell was a sturdier player physically.


Flowers was playing around 165 in his senior season and probably needed a little *help* to clock in at 183 by combine weigh in. Concerning to me. Also, he'll be 23 by week 1 2023...not old by any means, but he's about 99% grown into his physical max.
Deebo-lite  
JonC : 3/30/2023 11:28 am : link
Watch him. If you're going to draft a 180 lbs WR, give me Flowers over Hyatt, Devonta, etc. He's built like a tank and has a better shot at NFL survival.
Check Out this body shot of Zay Flowers  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/30/2023 11:33 am : link
...
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Deebo-lite  
section125 : 3/30/2023 11:38 am : link
In comment 16078398 JonC said:
Quote:
Watch him. If you're going to draft a 180 lbs WR, give me Flowers over Hyatt, Devonta, etc. He's built like a tank and has a better shot at NFL survival.


With gidie's photo link, yeah he looks solid. Got some bigger legs on him, too - compared to earlier photo.
RE: Deebo-lite  
BigBlue7 : 3/30/2023 11:41 am : link
In comment 16078398 JonC said:
Quote:
Watch him. If you're going to draft a 180 lbs WR, give me Flowers over Hyatt, Devonta, etc. He's built like a tank and has a better shot at NFL survival.


He doesn’t play like Deebo though. Q is nowhere near as physical
Gidie et al  
Colin@gbn : 3/30/2023 11:41 am : link
When I first saw that you had posted this I was sure we'd get all the usual suspects chiming with 'well that proves it for me, but my guy still tells me the Giants are going to take a CB at #25 ...'

On a slightly more serious note. Understand what this means. You do not take people like JSN and Johnston out to dinner because you're hoping that they somehow slip down to #25. Indeed, it seems pretty clear here that what the Giants are doing is plotting how they can get the BEST receiver they can get in this draft. That means in all likelihood they are asking themselves where they think each of those guys is likely to be taken, where would they have to move to ensure getting each guy, and what's going to be the cost to move to get each guy. Cause they're almost assuredly going to have to move. In the end it may be the Giants don't necessarily get the guy they want but the one that makes the most sense from a trade perspective to go an get.
Quentin Johnston could be a Metcalf  
PatersonPlank : 3/30/2023 11:42 am : link
He has the body type and skill set. This guy would be my first choice at #25 if he is still there
RE: RE: Deebo-lite  
BigBlue7 : 3/30/2023 11:42 am : link
In comment 16078417 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 16078398 JonC said:


Quote:


Watch him. If you're going to draft a 180 lbs WR, give me Flowers over Hyatt, Devonta, etc. He's built like a tank and has a better shot at NFL survival.



He doesn’t play like Deebo though. Q is nowhere near as physical


Sorry, I thought you were comparing QJ to Deebo. Flowers I get

I want nothing to do with QJ
RE: Quentin Johnston could be a Metcalf  
BigBlue7 : 3/30/2023 11:43 am : link
In comment 16078419 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
He has the body type and skill set. This guy would be my first choice at #25 if he is still there


That’s an insult to Metcalf. Metcalf uses his size and strength. QJ does not
RE: Johnston checks all the boxes. He could and probably should be the  
k2tampa : 3/30/2023 11:50 am : link
In comment 16078332 Ira said:
Quote:
first receiver drafted.


Not all the boxes. He misses on an important one - hands. 14th worst drop rate in college football last year. How does that equate to being the best WR prospect in the draft?
I posted  
Y28 : 3/30/2023 12:05 pm : link
this article previously.

But it is worth reading if any have not seen it.

Its from a former NFL scout that has some real questions about Quentin Johnson in Round 1

Probably most of us watched the Georgia/TCU game. Hard not remember what Georgia did to Johnson that night.

1 catch for 3 yards. A complete non factor.
Link - ( New Window )
I can see  
Dankbeerman : 3/30/2023 12:14 pm : link
the Wow factor in Johnson but dont love him as one the top recivers in the draft. Still has some hit or miss to him. Compared to what Flowers gets out of his size, Johnson leaves a bit to be desired.

Still think Addison fits the giants system perfectly but theu may prefer Flowers or JSN ecause Addison's times were not where they were expected to be.


I think we are doing the work on CB and WR and will try to land the one closet to the top of their list by moving up.
RE: This is the receiver I would like to see them draft  
k2tampa : 3/30/2023 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16078331 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
I wouldn’t even mind a trade up if they don’t have to give up anything crazy. If he didn’t have some drop issues in college he’d probably be a top 5 pick.


Pretty funny. Drop issues "in college"? You seem to think they are going to disappear in the pros. He catches with his body. Like Slayton and Robinson. Watch his highlight videos. He uses his body on virtually every catch.

Without the drop issues in college he would be a top 5 pick? Every year there are probably 10 WRs who would be a top 5 pick if they could catch the ball consistently. It's kind of a key part of playing the position.

I wouldn't mind him if the draft falls that way. But I worry he becomes the WR version of Evan Engram. Great athlete who tantalizes you with glimpses of greatness with a spattering of balls bouncing off his hands, some into the waiting arms of DBS. No way do I think they should trade up for him.

And while the crossing route against Michigan was fantastic, it was more than wiped out by the 1 catch for zero yards performance against Georgia.
I think Colin’s thinking  
Dave on the UWS : 3/30/2023 12:20 pm : link
is flawed. If you think WR is your best value at 25 because there are SEVERAL you would assess as good value there, then you get to know those several players and see how the draft falls. CB, for Rd 1, is a fall back. The value may be better in rd 2.
QJ may be the first WR taken or the 3rd or 4th depending on whose mock you are looking at. 3rd should be around 25.
RE: Gidie et al  
section125 : 3/30/2023 12:20 pm : link
In comment 16078418 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
When I first saw that you had posted this I was sure we'd get all the usual suspects chiming with 'well that proves it for me, but my guy still tells me the Giants are going to take a CB at #25 ...'

On a slightly more serious note. Understand what this means. You do not take people like JSN and Johnston out to dinner because you're hoping that they somehow slip down to #25. Indeed, it seems pretty clear here that what the Giants are doing is plotting how they can get the BEST receiver they can get in this draft. That means in all likelihood they are asking themselves where they think each of those guys is likely to be taken, where would they have to move to ensure getting each guy, and what's going to be the cost to move to get each guy. Cause they're almost assuredly going to have to move. In the end it may be the Giants don't necessarily get the guy they want but the one that makes the most sense from a trade perspective to go an get.


Colin, do you think they realistically consider moving up? It would have to only be in the area of 20th without costing an arm and a leg. Looks like the Giants 1st and 3rd to get to 20(Seattle).
RE: RE: Deebo-lite  
JonC : 3/30/2023 12:24 pm : link
In comment 16078417 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 16078398 JonC said:


Quote:


Watch him. If you're going to draft a 180 lbs WR, give me Flowers over Hyatt, Devonta, etc. He's built like a tank and has a better shot at NFL survival.



He doesn’t play like Deebo though. Q is nowhere near as physical


That remark was regarding Zay Flowers.
RE: Gidie et al  
Thegratefulhead : 3/30/2023 12:38 pm : link
In comment 16078418 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
When I first saw that you had posted this I was sure we'd get all the usual suspects chiming with 'well that proves it for me, but my guy still tells me the Giants are going to take a CB at #25 ...'

On a slightly more serious note. Understand what this means. You do not take people like JSN and Johnston out to dinner because you're hoping that they somehow slip down to #25. Indeed, it seems pretty clear here that what the Giants are doing is plotting how they can get the BEST receiver they can get in this draft. That means in all likelihood they are asking themselves where they think each of those guys is likely to be taken, where would they have to move to ensure getting each guy, and what's going to be the cost to move to get each guy. Cause they're almost assuredly going to have to move. In the end it may be the Giants don't necessarily get the guy they want but the one that makes the most sense from a trade perspective to go an get.
This represents the best of this board. I agree with this 100%. You know the inner workings of with certainty. How? Is this you just being extremely intuitive? To me, it seems like you have had some access to how things actually work. Do you know a GM?I suspect agentS, plural. Others on BBI present their opinions differently than you do. I think you really understand the inner workings of NFL teams. I value you the context you bring and want support you professionally more. Can I subscribe to something? How do I get more of you?
RE: Gidie et al  
k2tampa : 3/30/2023 12:39 pm : link
In comment 16078418 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
When I first saw that you had posted this I was sure we'd get all the usual suspects chiming with 'well that proves it for me, but my guy still tells me the Giants are going to take a CB at #25 ...'

On a slightly more serious note. Understand what this means. You do not take people like JSN and Johnston out to dinner because you're hoping that they somehow slip down to #25. Indeed, it seems pretty clear here that what the Giants are doing is plotting how they can get the BEST receiver they can get in this draft. That means in all likelihood they are asking themselves where they think each of those guys is likely to be taken, where would they have to move to ensure getting each guy, and what's going to be the cost to move to get each guy. Cause they're almost assuredly going to have to move. In the end it may be the Giants don't necessarily get the guy they want but the one that makes the most sense from a trade perspective to go an get.


Or, because the receiver rankings are in such flux this year, they are doing their due diligence on any of the top receivers who might end up there at 25. When you're picking at 5 you only have to interview 5 guys. When you're picking at 25 it's a whole lot different.
If you expect a tier of WR  
Spiciest Memelord : 3/30/2023 12:42 pm : link
to be available to choose from, its best to trade down a little bit. Trust me on this and my GMing experience.

Of a fantasy football team.
RE: RE: This is the receiver I would like to see them draft  
Spiciest Memelord : 3/30/2023 12:47 pm : link
In comment 16078447 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16078331 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


I wouldn’t even mind a trade up if they don’t have to give up anything crazy. If he didn’t have some drop issues in college he’d probably be a top 5 pick.



Pretty funny. Drop issues "in college"? You seem to think they are going to disappear in the pros. He catches with his body. Like Slayton and Robinson. Watch his highlight videos. He uses his body on virtually every catch.

Without the drop issues in college he would be a top 5 pick? Every year there are probably 10 WRs who would be a top 5 pick if they could catch the ball consistently. It's kind of a key part of playing the position.

I wouldn't mind him if the draft falls that way. But I worry he becomes the WR version of Evan Engram. Great athlete who tantalizes you with glimpses of greatness with a spattering of balls bouncing off his hands, some into the waiting arms of DBS. No way do I think they should trade up for him.

And while the crossing route against Michigan was fantastic, it was more than wiped out by the 1 catch for zero yards performance against Georgia.


It seemed Engram just ran in a straight line fast. QJ definitely is a better all around athlete, his explosion numbers were elite and looks it on tape. But yeah the hands...
RE: I have the image of him taking that short crossing  
RCPhoenix : 3/30/2023 12:53 pm : link
In comment 16078362 mfsd said:
Quote:
route 80 yards to the house against Michigan seared in my memory. Don’t know how he’d stack up against other guys potentially available at 25, but man would love to get Jones a guy like that to throw to


I like DJ Turner - and wouldn't mind if he's there in the 2nd or 3rd round - but he took an awful, awful angle on that play.
RE: I think Colin’s thinking  
AcidTest : 3/30/2023 1:22 pm : link
In comment 16078451 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
is flawed. If you think WR is your best value at 25 because there are SEVERAL you would assess as good value there, then you get to know those several players and see how the draft falls. CB, for Rd 1, is a fall back. The value may be better in rd 2.
QJ may be the first WR taken or the 3rd or 4th depending on whose mock you are looking at. 3rd should be around 25.


+1. Although JSN will almost certainly be long gone by #25, the Giants don't know which of the other WRs will still be available. So they have to talk to all of them. I don't think they trade more than a three to move up for anyone, Including a WR.
It's cute  
Thegratefulhead : 3/30/2023 1:23 pm : link
That some people think the only option is picking at 25.
RE: It's cute  
JonC : 3/30/2023 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16078514 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
That some people think the only option is picking at 25.


It never goes away. Been here since the beginning in '95, it never. Goes. Away.

Fill biggest perceived hole or else!
RE: I posted  
cosmicj : 3/30/2023 1:25 pm : link
In comment 16078434 Y28 said:
Quote:
this article previously.

But it is worth reading if any have not seen it.

Its from a former NFL scout that has some real questions about Quentin Johnson in Round 1

Probably most of us watched the Georgia/TCU game. Hard not remember what Georgia did to Johnson that night.

1 catch for 3 yards. A complete non factor. Link - ( New Window )


That scouting report is actually more worrisome for comments not related to the last BCS championship game. That’s one game. But QJ was invisible against some second rate teams throughout his career.
I think there are red flags with him  
AcesUp : 3/30/2023 1:42 pm : link
I'm not sure he's ever going to be that multi-dimensional #1 from the X position that people envision when looking at the size/speed. He didn't win like most big WRs do in college, he's not going to be able to take a hitch and turn around with open grass in the NFL as he did in the Big 12. He was inconsistent deep in a conference known for giving up the big play. So I think the most likely path for him is a guy that can threaten deep but doesn't win consistently there and primarily produces on drags and crossers. So similar to Slayton this past season with a little more size and YAC potential. Now, this is coming from somebody that thinks Slayton and his skillset is underrated here, so that package may still be worth 25. Especially leaving room for error at a premium position and the potential for coaching to smooth out his deficiencies a little. However, I prefer JSN, Flowers and Addison at WR. QJ is maybe where I start scoping out that 2nd shelf of CBs and whatever Edge/DL talent is on the board.
RE: RE: RE: This is the receiver I would like to see them draft  
k2tampa : 3/30/2023 1:56 pm : link
In comment 16078475 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 16078447 k2tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 16078331 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


I wouldn’t even mind a trade up if they don’t have to give up anything crazy. If he didn’t have some drop issues in college he’d probably be a top 5 pick.



Pretty funny. Drop issues "in college"? You seem to think they are going to disappear in the pros. He catches with his body. Like Slayton and Robinson. Watch his highlight videos. He uses his body on virtually every catch.

Without the drop issues in college he would be a top 5 pick? Every year there are probably 10 WRs who would be a top 5 pick if they could catch the ball consistently. It's kind of a key part of playing the position.

I wouldn't mind him if the draft falls that way. But I worry he becomes the WR version of Evan Engram. Great athlete who tantalizes you with glimpses of greatness with a spattering of balls bouncing off his hands, some into the waiting arms of DBS. No way do I think they should trade up for him.

And while the crossing route against Michigan was fantastic, it was more than wiped out by the 1 catch for zero yards performance against Georgia.



It seemed Engram just ran in a straight line fast. QJ definitely is a better all around athlete, his explosion numbers were elite and looks it on tape. But yeah the hands...


Yep, Engram wasn't as good an athlete, but he was a TE. His athletic profile for tight ends compares favorably to Johnston's for receivers. Engram might even be more of an outliers when you look at it that way.
RE: I think there are red flags with him  
bw in dc : 3/30/2023 2:21 pm : link
In comment 16078540 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I'm not sure he's ever going to be that multi-dimensional #1 from the X position that people envision when looking at the size/speed. He didn't win like most big WRs do in college, he's not going to be able to take a hitch and turn around with open grass in the NFL as he did in the Big 12. He was inconsistent deep in a conference known for giving up the big play. So I think the most likely path for him is a guy that can threaten deep but doesn't win consistently there and primarily produces on drags and crossers. So similar to Slayton this past season with a little more size and YAC potential. Now, this is coming from somebody that thinks Slayton and his skillset is underrated here, so that package may still be worth 25. Especially leaving room for error at a premium position and the potential for coaching to smooth out his deficiencies a little. However, I prefer JSN, Flowers and Addison at WR. QJ is maybe where I start scoping out that 2nd shelf of CBs and whatever Edge/DL talent is on the board.


That's a very solid analysis on QJ. Well done.

I see a WR prospect with too many question marks to validate a day one investment. His value is better qualified as a late day two prospect.
RE: I posted  
butler : 3/30/2023 2:22 pm : link
In comment 16078434 Y28 said:
Quote:
this article previously.

Probably most of us watched the Georgia/TCU game. Hard not remember what Georgia did to Johnson that night.

1 catch for 3 yards. A complete non factor. Link - ( New Window )


I have to admit I missed this game but Georgia shuts down a lot of guys who end up being pretty good. There were quite a few people knocking Hutchinson in the draft last year because he wasn't a factor against them, but he ended being Rookie of the Year.
RE: RE: It's cute  
Thegratefulhead : 3/30/2023 2:31 pm : link
In comment 16078517 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16078514 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


That some people think the only option is picking at 25.



It never goes away. Been here since the beginning in '95, it never. Goes. Away.

Fill biggest perceived hole or else!
Jon, we can definitely have a different discussion about what should happen vs what is happening. The only problem with being aggressive is when you are wrong. I am glad they are doing their homework. I do not believe this team will overpay to move up. However, I also think they should get their guy if they can. They exceeded expectations last year, they know what they have now. They should know what they need to reach the next level. If they really want a WR1 they should go get him, if they have conviction and the cost makes sense. We must sit and take BPA is fiction to me. It is the 'must" I have issue with.
They should go get their guy, but keep your #1-2 picks  
JonC : 3/30/2023 3:02 pm : link
including futures. I'd prefer CB from this crop, but they've got a lot of jobs at stake based on their decisions and they're moving up the timeline with this team.
Jon...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/30/2023 3:17 pm : link
...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?
That article by kelly is Trash  
BigBlueCane : 3/30/2023 3:19 pm : link

putting aside that 2020 was a shortened season where everyone's routine was disrupted and changed.

Sonny Dykes, the coach who led TCU to the NC game, took over in 2021 and has only coached there for one year in 2022.

Meachem, the previous TCU OC, coached under Gary Patterson who was more of a defensive guy.

And yes Georgia got aggressive with him. they could do so b/c they VASTLY out-talented TCU. There are Horned Frogs starters who struggle to crack to the 2nd string at Georgia, there's that big of a talent difference.

Not to mention Georgia having way more coaches and "analysts" who help the players on and off the field then TCU could ever dream of affording.

What a shit article.
RE: Jon...  
JonC : 3/30/2023 3:22 pm : link
In comment 16078637 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...I agree, but can you move up in RD1 without giving up a 1 or 2?


Sure, you just have to temper expectations as to how far up. I could see NYG trading up a handful of spots in return for their #3 pick. I wouldn't expect them to move up into the top 15.
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