Afternoon everyone: Just a couple of points we may (or may not) have picked in the tea leaves this past week which we haven't seen noted. First, while there was a lot of buzz about the fact that the Giants met with Quentin Johnston earlier this week, that same day Tennessee had its pro day with Cedric Tillman and Jalin Hyatt with almost no apparent interest at all from the Giants. Interesting. In fact, the Giants paid no special interest at all to any receivers but Johnston, Flowers and Smith-Njigba. So what does all that mean and we don't want to read too much intent.
What it likely doesn't mean is that the Giants are just doing their due diligence in case one of those guys drops to 25. That's just not the way NFL teams operate. What it does seem to confirm is that the Giants are really interested in acquiring one of the top receivers in this year's draft. Why. Again I don't think its so much they simply want to improve their corps but they are looking for a true #1 receiver, because right now in the NFL a team's #1 receiver is their most important player other than their QB.
I would also hope nobody bothers to chime in with the old 'I don't want this or that guy' or 'I wouldn't touch that guy with a 10-foot pole'. It really doesn't add anything to the conversation. The league has kind of told us what it thinks of a player like Johnston. Bill Belichek went half way across the country and spent the better part of the day yesterday with QJ. Same for Packers' GM Brian Gutekunsdt. Those teams are WR needy and pick 14th and 15th which is probably pretty close to where QJ is rated.
So the question for the Giants is how much are they going to be willing to give up to go up and get a player they feel has the potential to be a #1 receiver. Fact is nobody really knows (other than the Giants) right now.
The other thing that I thought was sort of kind of interesting this week was the fact that at their pressers on Monday, both Mara and Schoen when asked what other than upgrade the WR room would they like to accomplish they both answered they'd like to do a better job stopping the run. What made that interesting was they both said that the reason was that the Giants wanted to get their opponents' in more 3rd-and-longs so they could 'unleash' their pass rushers. To me that qualifier moved 'stop the run' from a cliched bit of coach-speak to something with more than a little strategic thought behind it. Anyway maybe something to think about in the second.
And speaking of the pressers not sure how many people actually watched the whole thing. but it wasn't hard to notice that both Schoen and Mara returned to the point that the Giants just have to get more pieces around DJ multiple times. (see above)
Have a great day!
Accordingly Walter Football has visits for:
Q Johnson has NE 14th, GB 15th, Det 18th, TB 19th, Houst 33rd, and Tenn 41st.
Njigba has NE 14th, and Dallas 26th.
Flowers has NE 14th, Pitt 17th, and TB 19th
NE is just about guaranteed to take a WR. That leaves GB 15th, Pitt 17th, Det 18th, TB 19th as the 4 teams in the running for the other 2 WRs we covet. We would probably have to plan to trade up to 16 to ensure we get 1 of those 3.
However, if good fortune prevails in the draft and GB, Pitt, and Det don't take any WRs, then we would only need to trade up to 20th to get the 3rd WR we covet.
Conclusion: To get one of those 3 WRs, the Giants will likely have to consider trading up to the 16th thru 20th spot to get their guy. There is almost no chance any of those 3 fall to #25. If they can't get the WR1 they covet, they most likely stay put and go for one of the CBs such as Porter, Ringo, or Banks. This is a year to draft for quality over quantity. They are more likely to trade up than trade down.
And that what we have been talking about here, ie, the possibility of trading up in this year's opening round isn't necessarily about adding a WR, its about getting a player who can make impact plays, who can be a WEAPON!
of course, the mere fact of trying to move up opens up a whole bunch of other questions in addition to how much is it going to cost etc. If the Giants ultimately can't get one of the three guys they appear to be targeting do they simply settle on the next tier of receivers. Mostly likely yes because the 2nd tier which is likely going to include Addison, Tillman, Hyatt, Downs is still pretty good.
The one thought that has kind of niggled away at me through the whole process is would the Giants think about taking a DE like Keion White or adebawore at #25, who for the record are tweener types who could play DE on early downs and then kick inside on passing downs. And I ask the question simply because there will be receivers and corners who can contribute at least at some level in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, but I don't don't see who can do what White or Ade could do for you much past the end of the first round. Again, I think it unlikely but something I'll at least watch as we go forward.
A couple of people mentioned the possibility of a trade for a veteran. I believe that's absolutely still on the table. I also have this kind of gut feeling that the Giants are still very much in on Hopkins. And I mention Hopkins because he is maybe the one guy out there (who's available) who if he came in here - and wants to play - quite literally transforms your team in the same way Plax did before he shot himself.
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Quentin Johnson is 6’4. 215 and runs a 4.4. Comparisons to AJ Green and Alston Jeffery.
Needs to stay healthy and continue improving his routes.
Dude is gonna be a perennial pro-bowler.
its kinda knit picky.. but I havent seen one report that QJ runs a 4.4
Seen some 4.5 which is plenty fine for someone his size.
He looks fast and slippery on tape, really impressive for his size. Lets just say I wouldn't lose sleep over QJ's physical abilities.
Antonio Brown's RAS 3.86 was nothing short of unspectacular, in fact, he had no physical traits showing he was elite in any area. How could he end up as one of the best?
Antonio Brown RAS - ( New Window )
I would just point out that trading up doesn’t equate to overpaying. If you can get a player valued at 15 by trading #25 and #89 that’s a bargain, not an overpay. But yes, blindly trading up certainly can result in overpaying.
What I do know is that in 2021 JSN had almost as many receiving yards himself as Chris Olave and Garret Wilson, his former OSU teammates who were the top two rookie WRs in the league last year. And by accounts he could very well have been a top 5-10 guy this if he had been healthy. I have also had several contacts I have from around the league that tell me Flowers is just a player who if he was 2-3 inches taller would also likely have been close to the top 10 mix.
I am also reminded in some ways of the 1985 draft. That year there were also three receivers clearly thought of as the top of their position. And that the year the Giants had the 19th pick and were kind of hoping against hope that one of the three would be available when they got on the clock.
The Jets took Al Toon with the 10th pick and then Cincy took Eddie Brown at 13. Still the Giants had some hopes of getting the third guy but it would depend on Dallas not taking him at 17. The Patriots got on the clock at 16 and immediately traded the pick to the 49ers who took that thisr WR, some guy named Jerry Rice!
(In retrospect Bill Walsh tried to claim that he really really wanted Rice but it has actually been pretty well documented that before trading up with NE he tried very hard to get up earlier to get Brown. In reality he just wanted the third really good WR and lucked out big time. But that's how the draft works!)
In the end I am not sure what the lesson here is other than its usually tough to win championships unless you're occasionally aggressive and take some chances. Who was that guy we traded up for in 04. Eli something!
JSN hardly played last year and Flowers isn't two to three inches taller. Neither is Downs who is just as electric as Flowers.
I'm fine taking any at #25 or trading a third to move up for a WR or anyone else. But it is apparently foolish not to want to trade a two and a three or next year's one for anyone. Doing the former means the Giants won't pick again until the end of the fourth round. For one player.
Eli was a QB. They are in a different category than everyone else. Everybody needs a franchise QB, and massive trade ups are frequently required to get one. GMs who do so and get it wrong are usually fired.
As I said, trade Barkley instead of draft picks to move up. He's unhappy playing on the FT, the Giants have pulled their offer, negotiations have stopped, and he won't be here after 2023. Barkley and #25 for #15 and a third this year and next.
Sitting at 25 and with a roster still full of areas to improve on, should mean all avenues are open and don’t act in desperate fashion. Forcing a WR over potentialky higher graded talent or moving up and wasting picks to do the same is simply poor drafting.
Hopefully Schoen acts in prudent fashion and if he gets his top choice then great. And if that choice is a WR or some other highly graded prospect at CB, Edge or whatever then that’s all you can ask.
That’s how to the good GMs draft.
And that what we have been talking about here, ie, the possibility of trading up in this year's opening round isn't necessarily about adding a WR, its about getting a player who can make impact plays, who can be a WEAPON!
of course, the mere fact of trying to move up opens up a whole bunch of other questions in addition to how much is it going to cost etc. If the Giants ultimately can't get one of the three guys they appear to be targeting do they simply settle on the next tier of receivers. Mostly likely yes because the 2nd tier which is likely going to include Addison, Tillman, Hyatt, Downs is still pretty good.
The one thought that has kind of niggled away at me through the whole process is would the Giants think about taking a DE like Keion White or adebawore at #25, who for the record are tweener types who could play DE on early downs and then kick inside on passing downs. And I ask the question simply because there will be receivers and corners who can contribute at least at some level in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, but I don't don't see who can do what White or Ade could do for you much past the end of the first round. Again, I think it unlikely but something I'll at least watch as we go forward.
A couple of people mentioned the possibility of a trade for a veteran. I believe that's absolutely still on the table. I also have this kind of gut feeling that the Giants are still very much in on Hopkins. And I mention Hopkins because he is maybe the one guy out there (who's available) who if he came in here - and wants to play - quite literally transforms your team in the same way Plax did before he shot himself.
I appreciate all of your posts but gotta say this one has me confused. You’ve been pushing for a WR and how important it is in todays game. Yet now you’re telling people to get out of their comfort zone and think less about positions and filling a hole.
Isn’t that exactly what you’ve been doing with all your posts about drafting a WR in Rd 1?
Isn’t that exactly what you’ve been doing with all your posts about drafting a WR in Rd 1?
Eman: First let me be clear. I am not advocating anything here. I am watching what the Giants appear to be thinking and maybe why. Here's the difference. I don't believe the Giants are just looking to upgrade their WR room; if that was the case then yeah you really don't need to trade. I do not believe that's what the goal is here. The Giants are trying to trying to get to the next step where they can compete with the best in the league. And every other really good team in the league has an elite #1 receiver who is the 2nd most important guy on their roster after their QB. And that's what I believe the Giants are trying to do here and its why they are looking for the best they can get. In fact, I think you can make a pretty good case that how close the Giants come to closing the gap with the really good teams will be driven largely by how good the guy they ultimately get is.
Quote:
I appreciate all of your posts but gotta say this one has me confused. You’ve been pushing for a WR and how important it is in todays game. Yet now you’re telling people to get out of their comfort zone and think less about positions and filling a hole.
Isn’t that exactly what you’ve been doing with all your posts about drafting a WR in Rd 1?
Eman: First let me be clear. I am not advocating anything here. I am watching what the Giants appear to be thinking and maybe why. Here's the difference. I don't believe the Giants are just looking to upgrade their WR room; if that was the case then yeah you really don't need to trade. I do not believe that's what the goal is here. The Giants are trying to trying to get to the next step where they can compete with the best in the league. And every other really good team in the league has an elite #1 receiver who is the 2nd most important guy on their roster after their QB. And that's what I believe the Giants are trying to do here and its why they are looking for the best they can get. In fact, I think you can make a pretty good case that how close the Giants come to closing the gap with the really good teams will be driven largely by how good the guy they ultimately get is.
Fair enough and appreciate the reply.
I just thought the reasons you just mentioned was why you seemed to be advocating they go WR in past posts, but I guess I just misunderstood your posts.
BTW I agree they need a big time #1, but I don’t want them to force the pick because of the amount of holes still on the team. If they were that one player away then yeah go for it.
My ideal would be for them to somehow get Hopkins and then use their 1st and 2nd picks to add more talent wherever they can. If no Hopkins trade, I like Tillman in Rd 2 if he’s there.
Now what would it take to get one of those guys?
Jeudy: probably our 1st round pick
Hopkins: probably our 2nd round pick
So you can trade up to get JSN who seems to be the best WR in this draft.