Games tonight
Islanders vs Hurricanes 7PM
Panthers vs Bruins 730PM
Wild vs Stars 930PM
Kings vs Oilers 10PM
Games tomorrow
Rangers vs Devils 7PM
Lightning vs Maple Leafs 730PM
Jets vs Golden Knights 930PM
Kraken vs Avalanche 10PM
List your predictions if you dare.
The Pacioretty trade was a disaster for them. They stepped in shit with Adin Hill.
Is there a bigger story these playoffs besides Hill? A 27-year old journeyman goalie. Never started more than 25 games until this year. Decent but not great career numbers - always seemed more backup-ish than starter IMO.
He's been unreal in the playoffs and the biggest reason for LVG success.
What I hate about it isn't they have no stars, that part is awesome, I just mention the no stars to show expectations, what I hate about it is, it's not reproduceable.
And someone will try. I can almost guarantee big off-season contracts for Hill, Barbashev, and anyone who is a FA from that team and I hope it's not from MTL.
I like what the Rangers have done, with the 20-20 hindsight exception of Panarin. And I only say with hind sight because of the contract. No way Panarin should be behind only McDavid and MacKinnon in contract AAV (not even considering the contract was signed 4 years ago where you would think a lot of players have passed him. Sure COVID and the cap has played a part, but not all of it - some of is just a bad contract - I hope Gorton learned a lesson).
But yeah, there is a palpable feeling in this city right now. Even people at work who never talk hockey are like, “I can’t wait for this game tonight”. If the Knights win tonight, this city is going to go bonkers over the next week.
I hope they do it, but I pray it doesn’t get violent tonight. Nine people were shot in Denver last night so hopefully that doesn’t happen here.
What I hate about it isn't they have no stars, that part is awesome, I just mention the no stars to show expectations, what I hate about it is, it's not reproduceable.
jeez, pj, normally I find your thoughts and prose eminently comprehensible and 80% of the time defensible. I have no fekking clue what you are saying here. lol
I like what the Rangers have done, with the 20-20 hindsight exception of Panarin. And I only say with hind sight because of the contract. No way Panarin should be behind only McDavid and MacKinnon in contract AAV (not even considering the contract was signed 4 years ago where you would think a lot of players have passed him. Sure COVID and the cap has played a part, but not all of it - some of is just a bad contract - I hope Gorton learned a lesson).
Panarin was the beneficiary of an insane NYI/NYR bidding war. NYI's final bid was a tad higher, but it seemed very likely he would've signed with NYI had NYR not been willing to go so high.
I absolutely do wish he signed with NYI though. I think he would've been enough to get over the TB hump at least once (Lee's $7M hit wouldn't have been retained and he was injured in the playoffs during NYI's best team) when NYI made those deep runs.
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I feel like their teams have been relatively star-less and mediocre from a talent standpoint, but they somehow win....
What I hate about it isn't they have no stars, that part is awesome, I just mention the no stars to show expectations, what I hate about it is, it's not reproduceable.
jeez, pj, normally I find your thoughts and prose eminently comprehensible and 80% of the time defensible. I have no fekking clue what you are saying here. lol
yeah i think what vegas has done is masterful.
karlsson, marchessault, theodore, riley smith are all key to the identity they've continued building since day 1.
swiping mark stone for brannstrom was robbery. another situation where NYI were the supposed bridesmaid and like panarin if they hadnt been who knows what happens vs tampa either year.
the eichel trade and pietrangelo signing were both pretty ballsy in the sense that they just kept doubling down even as many thought that first year was a fluke. and they established a culture right away that got all of the above to buy in.
they werent perfect and along the way they had their share of mistakes (pacioretty, statsny, lehner) and certainly cycled through coaches, but they have been aggressive, committed to winning, and generally made good evaluations. is the goaltending right now probably lucky? yes. but when you put yourself in the playoffs almost every year with a solid roster you give yourself that chance of lightning in a bottle. i think their template is exactly what any fan should want from their org since getting franchise players like McDavid, Crosby, Hedman, Hughes etc. generally requires a lot of bad hockey and good luck in almost equal measures.
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I feel like their teams have been relatively star-less and mediocre from a talent standpoint, but they somehow win....
What I hate about it isn't they have no stars, that part is awesome, I just mention the no stars to show expectations, what I hate about it is, it's not reproduceable.
jeez, pj, normally I find your thoughts and prose eminently comprehensible and 80% of the time defensible. I have no fekking clue what you are saying here. lol
lol. what I'm trying to say and having trouble articulating is on paper Vegas should not be good.
I think overall it's a good thing they are because it shows that hard work can pay off, but it's dangerous because teams will try and replicate their model - all sports leagues IMO are copycat leagues. Some team does something that works other teams try and do the same thing. I don't think their model is able to be duplicated because some things were just unpredictable.
Because of their success players like Hill and Barbashev will be way overpaid.
Goodrow is a NYR example of "copying" TBL resulting in an overpay.
pietrangelo is arguably one of the more decorated dmen in the last decade and captained a prior cup in st lou.
eichel had the huge contract pre-vegas for a reason and would be a much bigger star if he didnt have the back issues.
theodore and karlsson have each made all star games.
stephenson, martinez, and barbashev were smart adds with prior cups over the last several years.
i think their blue print is exactly what any NHL fan should want their team to do. hire great coaches with proven track records and add winning players who play winning hockey with the most talent possible.
really the only way to get players better than mark stone/alex pietrangelo is with an abundance of top 3 draft picks and its to their credit vegas hasnt been in that position.
He's a good player, just not a star IMO.
Eichel is, just with the neck injury Vegas took a risk and it paid off.
Pietrangelo is awesome, but past his prime.
they call themselves them misfits and I agree with that. Karlsson, Marchessault, Reilly, etc. I feel like Vegas is the epitome of a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
hard to replicate that IMO.
He's a good player, just not a star IMO.
Eichel is, just with the neck injury Vegas took a risk and it paid off.
Pietrangelo is awesome, but past his prime.
they call themselves them misfits and I agree with that. Karlsson, Marchessault, Reilly, etc. I feel like Vegas is the epitome of a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
hard to replicate that IMO.
good coaches do it. brindamour does in carolina, cassidy, deboer, gallant all did it before getting to vegas. much worse has been said about NYI over their recent playoff runs.
you could probably call any team that wins a cup without a few HOF'ers a 'sum of its parts' but it does happen. Vegas and St Louis being 2 recent examples.
teams like tampa and colorado and less recently chicago, pitt, washington needed to get lucky with hof high draft picks like doughty, ov, hedman, stamkos, kane, toews, crosby, malkin. copy catting the vegas way is much better for the game i think.
Clearly the expansion format helped enable teams like Vegas and Seattle (not taking away from coaches or GM's) but I view Vegas as having a 1st line (kind of) and 3 3rd lines. Excellent and deep D group, and timely goaltending.
they are very disciplined.
Anyway, I'm not articulating it well so I'll let it go after this - I think it's a good thing and admirable what they have done (so far) and how they have done it. I do not think it is repeatable and GM's will lose their jobs trying to repeat it. I hope it's not Hughes who shells out $$$ for Hill or Barbashev or any other pieces Vegas sheds after the season.
What you refer to (high draft picks/development leading to improvement) is how parity is designed to work. And it's still failed in places like EDM and BUF.
What you refer to (high draft picks/development leading to improvement) is how parity is designed to work. And it's still failed in places like EDM and BUF.
im not saying it doesn't necessarily work, im saying actively strategizing to go that route (aka tanking) would be a worse thing to copy cat.
Goodrow is a NYR example of "copying" TBL resulting in an overpay.
Before I read down to the Goodrow line, TBL and his signing by Drury (get more gritty) was exactly what your post had me thinking.
Last year in the ECF (even though NYR were ousted), as well as TBL the year before, and VGK this year, I enjoy watching teams that are all in to their style of play, hard work, more or less 100% all-for-one and one-for-all. It is appealing when you have a roster that is on fire this way, the same way I enjoyed TBL's years and Cooper's stewardship, as much as a bastid as NYR fans often felt. It's also the fallacy of the Goodrow signing, coming into a very different set-up and, apparently, with a coach who could not extract the selfless, hardworking, cohesion across the roster. It's why I'm with Rick and Victor (on the Laviolette thread): these NYR, esp. the top six, alienate me for being above the fray, unwilling to sublimate 'their game' for the betterment of the team...and not because I was any fan of GG.
I think Cassidy's is a great story, pretty humble given the precipice over which he's looking. I do think Eric has a point in terms of (dare I say it) 'talent'. Sometimes, the talent needs the catalysts and opportunity and the 'want to' to emerge as such. In sum, I don't get the put downs of Vegas, and yours is more nuanced.
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What you refer to (high draft picks/development leading to improvement) is how parity is designed to work. And it's still failed in places like EDM and BUF.
im not saying it doesn't necessarily work, im saying actively strategizing to go that route (aka tanking) would be a worse thing to copy cat.
Absolutely and that's no one's goal and the new rules guarantee nothing in terms of Bedard/McDavid etc.
In my head I see it like every GM looks at a roster and forms a plan to make it into a contender. that involves the draft, development, free agents, trades, etc.
I just don't think most GM's if they see Vegas and say, if they can do it, why not us, and try and rebuild a similar team, will be successful - that is what I meant by fools gold.
It's kind of the easier way out IMO and like I said will likely lead to a lot of GMs losing jobs.
like whoever overpays this offseason for Hill and Barbashev or overpays in a trade for Theodore to be a top pair D or whatever move they make that puts them on the "recreating Vegas" path.
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In comment 16132446 pjcas18 said:
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What you refer to (high draft picks/development leading to improvement) is how parity is designed to work. And it's still failed in places like EDM and BUF.
im not saying it doesn't necessarily work, im saying actively strategizing to go that route (aka tanking) would be a worse thing to copy cat.
Absolutely and that's no one's goal and the new rules guarantee nothing in terms of Bedard/McDavid etc.
In my head I see it like every GM looks at a roster and forms a plan to make it into a contender. that involves the draft, development, free agents, trades, etc.
I just don't think most GM's if they see Vegas and say, if they can do it, why not us, and try and rebuild a similar team, will be successful - that is what I meant by fools gold.
It's kind of the easier way out IMO and like I said will likely lead to a lot of GMs losing jobs.
like whoever overpays this offseason for Hill and Barbashev or overpays in a trade for Theodore to be a top pair D or whatever move they make that puts them on the "recreating Vegas" path.
if i was trying to copy cat vegas it would be this:
1. hire accomplished coaches
2. use salary cap space to take on higher paid guys from winning teams who need space (culture players)
3. develop young players well, especially the more talented ones (in their case this was more young players from other orgs than draft picks since they were an expansion team)
4. be willing to aggressively go after difference making talent in trades + fa
both vegas and seattle as expansion teams were born out of #2 with players like eakin, eberle, smith, maf, neal, gourde, etc.
#4 is the hardest to get right bc demand always far exceeds supply and that's where vegas had the most mixed successes/failures. but they had more good than bad. i think what we saw at the deadline was teams getting more aggressive since we've seen vegas, tampa, boston, and some others do that. the islanders havent made a first round pick in like 4 or 5 years.
Damn. This really sucks.
Out
Damn. This really sucks.
Reality is that he's been mostly a shell of himself since the Kolosar hit
I don't blame them. Better than waiting around for a loser team to win once in an 83 year window lol
4-1 this one is over
You are the Conn Smythe Trophy winner of this playoff thread. Good job. Proud of you.
I think you can strike the almost
Too bad the finals were a bust after a pretty great playoff tournament.
2017!! The waiting is over! No more curses
i guess folgey got the mcphee/mccrimmon decision right too.
This is why you all need to listen to me. I know it's unpopular to tell the truth and be correct and all you guys are fanboys but, whatever you say is wrong, whatever I say is right?
/sarcasmoff
Oh, glad to see Tkachuk get what he often gives out…a big hit! Kolesar should get a bonus for that hit.
Hey PJ, I guess this means your Habs get the 2nd from last pick in the first round draft….right?
Lol never change Greg
On behalf of an entire city, we appreciate your classy and respectful thoughts. Shall I not save you a space along the parade route?
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Vegas in 5
This is why you all need to listen to me. I know it's unpopular to tell the truth and be correct and all you guys are fanboys but, whatever you say is wrong, whatever I say is right?
When am I getting married? Will the Rangers ever win a Cup?
/sarcasmoff
Oh, glad to see Tkachuk get what he often gives out…a big hit! Kolesar should get a bonus for that hit.
Hey PJ, I guess this means your Habs get the 2nd from last pick in the first round draft….right?
Don't understand the Tkachuk hate. He plays hard, but seems like he's always within the rules.
Yeah, Habs have #5 and #31. Still #31 is a great return for Chiarot who was a rental for FLA and a regret signing by DET
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And they’re fans….I know they have waited for this moment for a long time.
/sarcasmoff
Oh, glad to see Tkachuk get what he often gives out…a big hit! Kolesar should get a bonus for that hit.
Hey PJ, I guess this means your Habs get the 2nd from last pick in the first round draft….right?
Don't understand the Tkachuk hate. He plays hard, but seems like he's always within the rules.
Yeah, Habs have #5 and #31. Still #31 is a great return for Chiarot who was a rental for FLA and a regret signing by DET
Having played in Calgary, I never saw him play much, but he seems like a whiner. Game 4 after the game ending for example. Plus, I can’t stand his brother, Brady. So maybe I’m transferring my displeasure with younger brother to the older brother.
For a while there, I thought your boys would get another possible top 10-12 pick, but they made the playoffs by one stinking point over surging Buffalo. In fact they beat Buffalo in Florida 3-2 right at the end which pretty much sealed a playoff birth for them. Buffalo came close….but that means little now.
I like players who play "complete" games.
Plus I have been watching them forever.
People always think players who play with emotion are whiners when they're not on their team (IMO).
Rangers cup coming in 2091.
Honestly not that crazy about that deal. Too much $ and I know 8 years is what they get, but it's too much term.
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He just signed for 8 years $7.875 AAV
Honestly not that crazy about that deal. Too much $ and I know 8 years is what they get, but it's too much term.
After the regular season I would have been very happy with that deal but after his disappointing playoff performance I am meh. It's perfectly fair AAV but the 8 years is a long deal. The good news is that he is only 24 so it's not like they are signing a 29 year old for 8 years. Also it's tough to complain about giving Bratt $7.875 million when Palat makes $6 million a year for the next four years.
I wanted them to lock up Meier first but hopefully he is announced soon or else the Devils may need to make a difficult decision and seriously consider moving him.
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In comment 16133784 Jay on the Island said:
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He just signed for 8 years $7.875 AAV
Honestly not that crazy about that deal. Too much $ and I know 8 years is what they get, but it's too much term.
After the regular season I would have been very happy with that deal but after his disappointing playoff performance I am meh. It's perfectly fair AAV but the 8 years is a long deal. The good news is that he is only 24 so it's not like they are signing a 29 year old for 8 years. Also it's tough to complain about giving Bratt $7.875 million when Palat makes $6 million a year for the next four years.
I wanted them to lock up Meier first but hopefully he is announced soon or else the Devils may need to make a difficult decision and seriously consider moving him.
Yeah that is the thing as the talent like Jack, Luke, Nemec etc... Mature and hopefully having Timo here going forward there is definitely upside for Bratt to even become a bigger scorer hopefully.
Presumption is Cole could have got more if were a FA (he was an RFA), but took a small discount for term and to respect a "pecking order" where no one makes more than Suzuki (team captain).
I suspect similar for Bratt.
Presumption is Cole could have got more if were a FA (he was an RFA), but took a small discount for term and to respect a "pecking order" where no one makes more than Suzuki (team captain).
I suspect similar for Bratt.
Yeah. Pretty much true, plus it's similar $ and term that the Sabres gave Cozens and Thompson. Just curious what outsiders think of Bratt as fans of opposing teams. Do you guys think he's worth that type of deal? One thing it's not like the Devils rushed to give it to him. These have been pretty acrimonious negations especially last Summer. They have pretty much gone year to year with him through RFA.
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And they’re fans….I know they have waited for this moment for a long time.
/sarcasmoff
Oh, glad to see Tkachuk get what he often gives out…a big hit! Kolesar should get a bonus for that hit.
Hey PJ, I guess this means your Habs get the 2nd from last pick in the first round draft….right?
Don't understand the Tkachuk hate. He plays hard, but seems like he's always within the rules.
Yeah, Habs have #5 and #31. Still #31 is a great return for Chiarot who was a rental for FLA and a regret signing by DET
He's one of those guys who you love on your team but hate playing against him, IMO.
Presumption is Cole could have got more if were a FA (he was an RFA), but took a small discount for term and to respect a "pecking order" where no one makes more than Suzuki (team captain).
I suspect similar for Bratt.
That's going to be the issue with Meier. The Devils don't want to give anyone more than Jack Hughes who makes $8 million. Rumors are that the Devils offered Meier $8 million and don't want to go higher which will surely be a problem IMO.
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deal Cole Caufield got.
Presumption is Cole could have got more if were a FA (he was an RFA), but took a small discount for term and to respect a "pecking order" where no one makes more than Suzuki (team captain).
I suspect similar for Bratt.
That's going to be the issue with Meier. The Devils don't want to give anyone more than Jack Hughes who makes $8 million. Rumors are that the Devils offered Meier $8 million and don't want to go higher which will surely be a problem IMO.
I can't imagine Fitz pursued Timo for months thinking he would get him for under 8 mill/per long term. He'd have to be a naive fool, and Fitz is not that. This supposed existence of a "Jack cap" for fwds I believe has been made up by the writers.