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NFT: New York Rangers Offseason Talk

Anakim : 5/1/2023 11:01 pm
So what's next? I'm with Brett. I think both Gallant and Drury need to go. Two straight years of blowing a 2-0 series lead and having your team no-show. Unacceptable.

But I think Drury is our new Sather and I think Gallant will be retained, but Mike Kelly will "retire". I'd rather have Gallant than Sutter, Julien and even Laviolette. The two "retreads" who intrigue me most: Andrew Brunette (DUI and all) and Joel Quenneville. Will Coach Q ever get another HC job again? IDK, doesn't seem like it, but he would definitely be an upgrade at HC.


As for the players...lots of decisions to be made. Two certainties: Kane should walk, if not retire, and Goodrow is going to be a cap dump.

I think 8 guys are definite returns: 1) Igor, 2) Fox, 3) Lindgren, 4)Kreider, 5) Trouba, 6) Zibanejad, 7) Chytil and 8) Schneider

Laf and K'Andre are RFAs and frankly, I hope they both get offer-sheeted. Kakko? Underwhelming. Trocheck likely is coming back, but it's not a certainty.

I'd bring back Tarasenko on the cheap if he's up for it.




And then there's Panarin, who was by far the most disappointing this series. And this is nothing new. Aside from the Game 7 OT winner against the Yinz last year, he's been fucking terrible in the Playoffs. He has a NMC and a huge salary, so IDK if he's movable, but man, this is a problem. He is a total liability when it comes to the Playoffs.
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RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2023 12:13 pm : link
In comment 16113582 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
'Tougher to play against' is too vague of a phrase. Devils aren't a 'tough' team but they were pretty ferocious on the forecheck.

Rangers need faster forwards who can do the same (this is why they should have went after Max Domi and not Patrick Kane). Rangers have plenty of toughness: Trouba, Lindgren, and Schneider are all pretty tough players.


to me that's coaching.


....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/10/2023 12:20 pm : link
Maybe? I'm not sure. Guys like Laf and Chytil should be superior forecheckers than they showed against the Devils, so maybe you're right. The Rangers top six is light on those types outside of Kreider.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2023 12:31 pm : link
In comment 16113591 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Maybe? I'm not sure. Guys like Laf and Chytil should be superior forecheckers than they showed against the Devils, so maybe you're right. The Rangers top six is light on those types outside of Kreider.


That's probably something that frustrates fans. Last year in my opinion, Kakko, Lafreniere, and Chytil was the best forechecking line the Rangers had and they were great in the playoffs.

Seemed like they'd have shifts where they cycled for 90 seconds and generated some good scoring chances.

Where was that, this year?

I don't think players skill gets worse over a year, but effort/scheme/role can change.

I put that on the coach, maybe I'm shifting blame off players because I don't have a better answer, but do you?

Serious question, I was disappointed (and I'm not even a Rangers fan) and I'm still trying to understand why they were so flat and seemed lethargic after two dominant games vs NJD.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/10/2023 12:53 pm : link
I don't have a better answer, either. You've played competitively (I haven't) but there are times you just feel overwhelmed against a team you are even with. Usually you need a break or an individual play to break through and regain confidence or something like that. Can coaches help generate that? Yeah, I think so.

I think Kakko actually looked pretty good this post-season, but didn't put up the necessary points (again). Laf was invisible.
pj as a non Ranger fan yet objective...  
Drewcon40 : 5/10/2023 1:06 pm : link
...what do you think of Kakko and Lafrenière in terms of potential now? Can a new coach salvage their pre-draft projections?
RE: pj as a non Ranger fan yet objective...  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2023 1:27 pm : link
In comment 16113631 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
...what do you think of Kakko and Lafrenière in terms of potential now? Can a new coach salvage their pre-draft projections?


I think so, but less bullish than I once was. There is always risk with prospects, in hockey especially. It's kind of like baseball since you're drafting 17/18 year old kids.

I don't think either one of them could have been drafted into a worse situation.

it's rare I guess that competitive teams expected to contend get draft picks as high as #1 and #2 overall.

And not making excuses for them, but on a middling or crappy team both Lafreniere and Kakko would have been consistently in the top 6, on PP1 and getting top minutes.

It is a balance where the Rangers were expected to contend but also bring them along and develop them.

of the last 10 #1 overall picks Lafreniere was ranked 7th by the Athletic (ahead of Hischier, Ekblad, and Slafkovsky in order)

I think that's probably right (Owen Power being ahead of him I'm not sure about though), but I hope Slafkovsky makes them eat their words as does Lafreniere.

What could Laf realistically net?  
Anakim : 5/10/2023 2:00 pm : link
Top-10 pick? Top-15? Worse?
RE: What could Laf realistically net?  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2023 2:04 pm : link
In comment 16113661 Anakim said:
Quote:
Top-10 pick? Top-15? Worse?


No idea, but I do hear a lot of podcasts suggesting a trade to MTL. No rumors of one, but saying they could see it happening.

I would give the Panthers pick, maybe throw in a prospect too, but not #5.

.....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/10/2023 2:27 pm : link
I think trading Laf or Kakko would be awful.
RE: .....  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2023 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16113689 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think trading Laf or Kakko would be awful.


Yeah, no way you get good value back and it's not like they're expensive (relatively speaking)
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/10/2023 3:31 pm : link
Right - you get a 40 point two-way winger in Kakko for nothing with upside potential.

I'm not as high on either as I was on draft day, of course - but I'm surprised so many are down on Kakko. I think he's going to be a 70-80 point player. He's getting better and feels on the verge of putting it altogether. He needs more ice time and powerplay time. He also deserves significant PK time too as well.
Plus even if Kakko is only a 40-50 point scorer  
Greg from LI : 5/10/2023 4:03 pm : link
His all-around game is so sound that he provides real value. Maybe not what you hope for from a second overall pick, but a good player.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/10/2023 7:11 pm : link
Here's an interesting article on Lafreniere. Gives a pretty optimistic painting of his third season.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: .....  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2023 8:02 pm : link
In comment 16113870 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Here's an interesting article on Lafreniere. Gives a pretty optimistic painting of his third season. Link - ( New Window )


Sounds like a lot of what I have been saying but very interesting (and way too long, lol)
RE: .....  
bigbluehoya : 5/11/2023 9:46 am : link
In comment 16113870 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Here's an interesting article on Lafreniere. Gives a pretty optimistic painting of his third season. Link - ( New Window )


Interesting stuff. Thank you for posting.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/11/2023 10:06 am : link
lol, pj, I don't quite understand the visualization charts. The 5v5 data is what interests me most.

This was buried at the bottom of the piece, but there was a note about Valiquette making a comment about Laf's training. Someone on HF commented he came into camp with 24% body fat, which does not sound right just looking at the guy. But it's concerning Vally felt the need to say that.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 5/11/2023 10:07 am : link
In comment 16114370 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
lol, pj, I don't quite understand the visualization charts. The 5v5 data is what interests me most.

This was buried at the bottom of the piece, but there was a note about Valiquette making a comment about Laf's training. Someone on HF commented he came into camp with 24% body fat, which does not sound right just looking at the guy. But it's concerning Vally felt the need to say that.


it was during COVID, so who knows, but that doesn't sound right to me either.
Vince Mercogliano:  
Anakim : 5/12/2023 12:25 pm : link
Mike Sullivan is the #1 choice, but he doesn't think he will shake loose.

Peter Laviolette is considered the safe choice

Kris Knoblauch's hat is in the ring

Rangers doing homework on Mike Babcock
Laviolette? Babcock?  
Greg from LI : 5/12/2023 12:29 pm : link
Dear God, no
How would Sullivan  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2023 12:30 pm : link
shake loose exactly?

get fired?
RE: How would Sullivan  
bigbluehoya : 5/12/2023 12:37 pm : link
In comment 16115347 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
shake loose exactly?

get fired?


I believe the hypothetical is that if Toronto cleans house, Dubas is the likely 1A choice for the Pens GM gig, and he could potentially want Keefe as his HC.

A lot of "ifs" involved, and it all comes down to a lot more than an "I want Sullivan" tantrum from Dolan.

I hope Lindy  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 5/12/2023 12:40 pm : link
gets to stay as HC for Devils and Rangers are able to nab Brunette.

Knoblouch would be my second choice at this point unless there's someone else I'm missing.
RE: RE: How would Sullivan  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2023 1:01 pm : link
In comment 16115355 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 16115347 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


shake loose exactly?

get fired?



I believe the hypothetical is that if Toronto cleans house, Dubas is the likely 1A choice for the Pens GM gig, and he could potentially want Keefe as his HC.

A lot of "ifs" involved, and it all comes down to a lot more than an "I want Sullivan" tantrum from Dolan.


Makes sense, the two teams were built similarly though maybe the main difference between TOR and PIT is Sullivan. So bringing Keefe to PIT just creates the same thing they had in TOR but south of the border.

Both top heavy teams, super high end stars, who struggled in net (to an extent though MAF is better than any TOR goalie under Dubas - and funny they brought in Matt Murray - the guy who ended MAF in PIT), and struggled to fill out the bottom of the roster due to top heaviness/cap.

Also, Sullivan signed an extension through 2026-2027. That's a lot of coin to eat if it works like I think it does, for the privilege of firing the best coach in the league (or one of them).

have to imagine that there's some  
bigbluehoya : 5/12/2023 1:26 pm : link
way for NYR to step into Sullivan's contract if all parties are in favor of a move.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/12/2023 2:09 pm : link
Penguins should be tearing down. Maybe Sullivan asks out and something could be done. I can't remember the last time an NHL HC was traded.
Who was the NYR HC  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2023 2:10 pm : link
when Sullivan was an assistant? Tortarella?
Yes.  
BrettNYG10 : 5/12/2023 2:13 pm : link
.
Yes, Torts  
Greg from LI : 5/12/2023 2:13 pm : link
Or I should say 'Torts'.

Pour one out for the long lost Jon in NJ.
RE: .....  
Anakim : 5/12/2023 2:36 pm : link
In comment 16115406 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Penguins should be tearing down. Maybe Sullivan asks out and something could be done. I can't remember the last time an NHL HC was traded.


Dan Bylsma, I think? Yinz got a first-rounder out of it.
Arthur Staple:  
Anakim : 5/12/2023 2:37 pm : link
"Total stab in the dark on the top three, but right now, based on the little I’ve heard, I’d go with Laviolette, Mike Babcock and Leach. I believe the Rangers are doing their homework on Babcock, who hasn’t coached since the Leafs fired him three years ago and has serious questions about his behavior and interactions with past players. He is, however, an Xs and Os guy. If that’s what you want after Gallant, Babcock has those skills.

Can’t say who I’d go with. Laviolette was said to have embraced data and what it offers during his time in Washington but the Caps didn’t exactly prove that on the ice during his tenure. And if you want a stern taskmaster, that’s unlikely to be a first-timer behind the bench."
RE: RE: .....  
Anakim : 5/12/2023 2:39 pm : link
In comment 16115436 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 16115406 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


Penguins should be tearing down. Maybe Sullivan asks out and something could be done. I can't remember the last time an NHL HC was traded.



Dan Bylsma, I think? Yinz got a first-rounder out of it.


Never mind. Bylsma had already been fired and the Yinz got a third rounder.
Laviolette in WAS  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2023 2:53 pm : link
was like the guy who took over Rome during the decline. Ovi was old, inconsistent goalie situation, injuries all over the place (Backstrom, Oshie, etc.).

I'd form my opinion of him based on PHI, NSH or CAR - like him or not - just saying i wouldn't use WAS as the basis.

3 trips to the cup, 1 win is the ultimate record to look at too.

Did a little digging  
Greg from LI : 5/12/2023 3:06 pm : link
And the only instance I can find of a team trading its current head coach to another team was the Nordiques trading Michel Bergeron to the Rangers in 1987. All of the other instances were cases of teams being compensated for former coaches who they still held contractual rights over.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/12/2023 4:03 pm : link
I like Laviolette but he's uninspiring.

There isn't an obvious fit. Gallant was obvious a couple years ago.

Good research, Greg.
Rangers situation  
pjcas18 : 5/12/2023 4:36 pm : link
is tough for a coach because they need to win now and simultaneously develop young talent.

If you want a guy strictly who can develop young players I'd say look at the former player route.

Martin St. Louis turned Cole Caufield and Nick Suzuki into stars. Caufield was in the AHL and went a month of the season without scoring (sound familiar?) and then was on a 50 goal pace before being injured. He still had 36 points in 46 games (26 goals). He also got more out of Kirby Dach then the prior years in CHI - some people had given up on Dach.

But the Rangers need to win now because they have the ingredients in place, so you need a coach/staff who can get the most out of veteran players (task master/system guy) and at the same time someone to develop young players.

Kind of like a coaching unicorn.

DeBoer has done a good job with this in Dallas even though he inherited some of it but Jason Robertson and Wyatt Johnston are as good a young duo as there is in the league. but until he wins a cup he'll have the good not great label. 0 - 2 in cup finals, but a .560 playoff winning percentage.

LAK  
pjcas18 : 5/13/2023 11:09 am : link
make a pre-emptive move and extend Marco Sturm (he is a common name mentioned for most head coaching openings).

Not sure if that totally prevents him from taking a head coaching job elsewhere, but he seems to be the heir apparent in LA.

McLellan I think is doing ok, but he'll be in year 5 this year, so I think he'll be on the hot seat.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/13/2023 3:14 pm : link
Rangers should have traded for Eichel instead of extending Zibanejad. Another short-sighted move.

From the Athletic in the summer of 2021:

Quote:
There’s no question that Filip Chytil is going to be available — where the hell is he going to play with all the grit guys Drury brought in? — and that there will be two other prospects (Kravtsov, Nils Lundkvist, Matthew Robertson, Zac Jones) and perhaps a first and/or Alexandar Georgiev.


Rangers also could have flipped Z for assets and used that in place of Chytil.

Also, I don't really care about small markets winning Cups/advancing, etc., but the Rangers should have a huge advantage in player development/analytics/etc. And these teams with smaller budgets seem to be outclassing them. Frustrating.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 5/13/2023 4:01 pm : link
In comment 16116180 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Rangers should have traded for Eichel instead of extending Zibanejad. Another short-sighted move.

From the Athletic in the summer of 2021:



Quote:


There’s no question that Filip Chytil is going to be available — where the hell is he going to play with all the grit guys Drury brought in? — and that there will be two other prospects (Kravtsov, Nils Lundkvist, Matthew Robertson, Zac Jones) and perhaps a first and/or Alexandar Georgiev.



Rangers also could have flipped Z for assets and used that in place of Chytil.

Also, I don't really care about small markets winning Cups/advancing, etc., but the Rangers should have a huge advantage in player development/analytics/etc. And these teams with smaller budgets seem to be outclassing them. Frustrating.


Eichel was a risk, I mean he's a better player than Mika overall, but he had a pretty serious neck injury and the treatment for it was heavily debated.

It would have been a bold move, and maybe the right one, but I can't fault Drury for it too much. Mika is a good player.

I think the the Kreider extension and Panarin contract (both Gorton moves I think) are preventing the Rangers from doing other things, not the Mika contract.

But where I actually want to go is why not Mika and Eichel? It just means no Trocheck (obviously) and no Chytil extension - which you know my opinion, Chytil is not a center anyway, not long term (due to face offs) and he's probably in the trade. Those two make $8M and you're almost to Eichel ($10M) and then NYR have a center duo that rivals the best in the league.





....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/13/2023 4:13 pm : link
Eichel was definitely risky, but so is paying a 30 year old center $8.5 million a year.

Eichel/Z was do-able too, I guess. No Trocheck, no Goodrow probably. That would have been interesting. The names thrown out for Eichel have turned into shit. The cap part would have been hard.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 5/13/2023 4:28 pm : link
In comment 16116199 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Eichel was definitely risky, but so is paying a 30 year old center $8.5 million a year.

Eichel/Z was do-able too, I guess. No Trocheck, no Goodrow probably. That would have been interesting. The names thrown out for Eichel have turned into shit. The cap part would have been hard.


Paying Mika to 2030 is definitely not ideal as well as giving him full NMC. I'd have prioritized one or the other, term or NMC, not both, but I have never had to negotiate a contract so I'm talking out of my ass.

He'll be 36 or 37 when this contract ends.

.....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/13/2023 5:38 pm : link
Rangers love handing out these NMCs. That contract will suck in 4-5 years.
Lindy Ruff returning as Devils coach.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 5/17/2023 1:11 pm : link
Andrew Brunette, anyone?
RE: Lindy Ruff returning as Devils coach.  
Anakim : 5/17/2023 1:40 pm : link
In comment 16118462 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
Andrew Brunette, anyone?


Yep. I’m interested. He, Jay Leach or maybe Knoblauch.
Rangers window is wide open  
JonC : 5/17/2023 3:14 pm : link
but man I can't shake the instinct they're gonna blow it, starting with the Dury hire. WTF is gonna coach this team to the Cup.
WTF? Why???  
Anakim : 5/19/2023 10:29 am : link
Arthur Staple
@StapeAthletic
Hearing that #NYR has let Jim Ramsay go. Athletic trainer for the team since 1994, worked several Olympics as Team Canada's head trainer.



We were like the most healthy team in the league. WTF sense does this make?
and it wasn't close  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2023 10:32 am : link
maybe healthiest team in NHL history. Though this was as of March 10 - so I think before the Lindgren injury.

Some updates  
Anakim : 5/19/2023 6:44 pm : link
Staple reported the Rangers have interviewed Babcock and Laviolette. He mentioned Carbery. Leach is on the list. Apparently, Mike Sullivan is a big Leach backer and Drury and Sullivan are very good friends, which could carry some weight with Drury. He also speculated about Keefe and brought up Quenneville. There is no timeline on when or if the NHL will clear Quenneville.

Babcock has some support in the Rangers' front office. Maybe from AGM Ryan Martin, since they were in Detroit together.
Link - ( New Window )
....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/19/2023 6:52 pm : link
I'd prefer a first time head coach (Leach, Knoblauch) but Laviolette is the best option of the retreads.
If Drury  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2023 7:30 pm : link
feels his job is on the line (this is his second coach, right?) I doubt he goes with a first time head coach.

If Drury feels secure, then he can pick anyone, but that's how I view it.

Not too many GM's putting their future in the hands of a first time head coach IMO.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/20/2023 11:06 am : link
Yes, this is his second head coach. Drury should have been fired along with Gallant. My guess is he's safe until Sather feels a need to have another scapegoat.
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