So what's next? I'm with Brett. I think both Gallant and Drury need to go. Two straight years of blowing a 2-0 series lead and having your team no-show. Unacceptable.
But I think Drury is our new Sather and I think Gallant will be retained, but Mike Kelly will "retire". I'd rather have Gallant than Sutter, Julien and even Laviolette. The two "retreads" who intrigue me most: Andrew Brunette (DUI and all) and Joel Quenneville. Will Coach Q ever get another HC job again? IDK, doesn't seem like it, but he would definitely be an upgrade at HC.
As for the players...lots of decisions to be made. Two certainties: Kane should walk, if not retire, and Goodrow is going to be a cap dump.
I think 8 guys are definite returns: 1) Igor, 2) Fox, 3) Lindgren, 4)Kreider, 5) Trouba, 6) Zibanejad, 7) Chytil and 8) Schneider
Laf and K'Andre are RFAs and frankly, I hope they both get offer-sheeted. Kakko? Underwhelming. Trocheck likely is coming back, but it's not a certainty.
I'd bring back Tarasenko on the cheap if he's up for it.
And then there's Panarin, who was by far the most disappointing this series. And this is nothing new. Aside from the Game 7 OT winner against the Yinz last year, he's been fucking terrible in the Playoffs. He has a NMC and a huge salary, so IDK if he's movable, but man, this is a problem. He is a total liability when it comes to the Playoffs.
P.S. We all know Drury isn't going anywhere. Gallant needs to make some changes w/his assistants if he's gonna stay.
Why do you think Drury should go? If you get rid of Drury and the head coach then it's a bit of rebuild mode. I think that is extremely drastic.
Kreider's might be.
It’s too fucking soon.
If you think drury is going anywhere you’re high. Maybe gallant but drury won’t be fired because teams don’t just fire GMs like they fire coaches.
That’s all I got.
I’d also think long and hard about trying to bring back Tarasenko. I think he brings something to the party in the playoffs unlike Panarin who is fun to watch in the regular season but game just doesn’t translate in the playoffs. They also need to find an alpha forward that can make a difference 5 on 5 in the playoffs. Rangers were far too dependent on the power play. If that means parting with Laf or Kakko then so be it.
Kreider, Zibby, Trochek, Chytil, Vesey, one of Laf or Kakko and a resigned Tarasenko is a very solid core. Find a couple grinders (a la Jesper Fast) for the 4th line to replace Goodrow and Motte. The team will still be in the mix while Igor is in his prime, and it’s more of a re-tool for next year than another rebuild.
If you think drury is going anywhere you’re high. Maybe gallant but drury won’t be fired because teams don’t just fire GMs like they fire coaches.
That’s all I got.
I agree...but you have to be held accountable for the trades made that failed spectacularly.
I think it’s only a second rounder since we shit the bed in round 1…
So we got that going for us.
they didn't trade a 1st for Kane, it was a 2nd and a 3rd, the 2nd became a 1st if the Rangers made the conference finals.
Why do you think Drury should go? If you get rid of Drury and the head coach then it's a bit of rebuild mode. I think that is extremely drastic.
I mean most of the team right now is a team he inherited from Gorton and JD. Panarin, Zibanejad, Krieder, Fox, Lindgren, K'Andre, Schneider, Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Igor...all JD and Gorton.
So his individual moves: signing Goodrow to a long-term deal, which was ridiculous. You don't sign a bottom-six guy to a long-term deal and also give him a NTC.
Vesey - fine. Nice little bargain there.
Motte - again, fine. He's an UFA, but he shouldn't be too expensive to bring back.
Trocheck - upgrade over Strome, but he was inconsistent and the most upsetting thing is that he never developed that chemistry with Panarin, which was the main reason we brought him on. We knew Zibanejad would play with Kreider. We knew we'd keep the Kid Line together and have Chytil play with Laf. So who would Panarin play with? So we signed Trocheck and they never got it going.
Kane - terrible trade. He was on his last legs. He's completely shot.
Tarasenko and Mikkola - nice deal and nice players, but it didn't get us over the hump. And alas, we traded away a first rounder.
Copp - adios one first-rounder for a fucking rental
Vatrano was a nice deal, but again, pure rental
Braun wasn't the stabilizing force we hoped he would be. Kevin Klein, he was not. And again, rental.
I’d also think long and hard about trying to bring back Tarasenko. I think he brings something to the party in the playoffs unlike Panarin who is fun to watch in the regular season but game just doesn’t translate in the playoffs. They also need to find an alpha forward that can make a difference 5 on 5 in the playoffs. Rangers were far too dependent on the power play. If that means parting with Laf or Kakko then so be it.
Kreider, Zibby, Trochek, Chytil, Vesey, one of Laf or Kakko and a resigned Tarasenko is a very solid core. Find a couple grinders (a la Jesper Fast) for the 4th line to replace Goodrow and Motte. The team will still be in the mix while Igor is in his prime, and it’s more of a re-tool for next year than another rebuild.
Without a major shake up, one of the kids stepping up and leading this team, finding or developing a true 5 on 5 scorer, and finding a true 2 way defenseman, they're going nowhere again. So, they'll be going nowhere again
Kreider's might be.
Kreider has a NMC and I highly, highly, highly doubt he waives it. He loves the Rangers and he loves NYC.
Panarin, I agree, but I do think he's movable if the Rangers eat some of his cap. But again, NMC...
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You know, the defense wasn't good, either. Miller has regressed. Fox had a terrible series. Trouba is a TO machine. I agree on moving on from KK and Laf, but who's gonna sign them? They aren't progressing.
they didn't trade a 1st for Kane, it was a 2nd and a 3rd, the 2nd became a 1st if the Rangers made the conference finals.
Silver lining, eh?
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Gallant was out coached. Badly.
If you think drury is going anywhere you’re high. Maybe gallant but drury won’t be fired because teams don’t just fire GMs like they fire coaches.
That’s all I got.
I agree...but you have to be held accountable for the trades made that failed spectacularly.
I hear you. I’m not as scared of drury doing something god awful or highly egregious as I am concerned that gallant is merely ok. The evidence is starting to add up on the HC…
Drury, I don’t know, nothing really jumps out at me. The rangers are good on paper and have won a lot more games than they’ve lost under drury. I’m not defending him as much as I’m not sure he should be condemned I guess.
Sucks.
they didn't trade a 1st for Kane, it was a 2nd and a 3rd, the 2nd became a 1st if the Rangers made the conference finals.
You would think that a Rangers fan would know that.
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You know, the defense wasn't good, either. Miller has regressed. Fox had a terrible series. Trouba is a TO machine. I agree on moving on from KK and Laf, but who's gonna sign them? They aren't progressing.
they didn't trade a 1st for Kane, it was a 2nd and a 3rd, the 2nd became a 1st if the Rangers made the conference finals.
Oh that's right! I forgot that...thanks for pointing it out. I feel 1 percent less sad now
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contract is not movable.
Kreider's might be.
Kreider has a NMC and I highly, highly, highly doubt he waives it. He loves the Rangers and he loves NYC.
Panarin, I agree, but I do think he's movable if the Rangers eat some of his cap. But again, NMC...
Do what the Lightning did with McDonagh… “we don’t want you so you might as well choose where you want to live so we can all move on.” But they’ll have to attach picks to it and probably take a shitty contract in return.
He had a couple of good (maybe very good) scoring chances tonight and couldn’t capitalize. That’s pretty much been his MO since he’s been here. You really think next year it’s gonna finally click? You saw real growth from him and Kakko this year? I didn’t.
He's on the third line, not getting a lot of minutes. What's your plan for him? How do you develop him if you don't give him minutes on the top lines?
Othmann and Cuylle will likely make the team next season. Cuylle will take Goodrow's place on the fourth line and Othmann will probably play on the kid line, with Laf moved up if they find a taker for Panarin.
Most suspect to MTL, but I wonder if that's how the Rangers move Panarin (if he waives his NTC).
Now, Winnipeg is not exactly NYC or MIA) but maybe the Panarins have evolved.
PLD is an RFA due a $8M deal or so, so the money isn't *that* far off and it finally gets the Rangers an elite 2C. Trocheck is fine, but better suited as 3C.
Just not sure what's going on mentally with PLD and if he'll be a good fit in NY (or MTL).
Most suspect to MTL, but I wonder if that's how the Rangers move Panarin (if he waives his NTC).
Now, Winnipeg is not exactly NYC or MIA) but maybe the Panarins have evolved.
PLD is an RFA due a $8M deal or so, so the money isn't *that* far off and it finally gets the Rangers an elite 2C. Trocheck is fine, but better suited as 3C.
Just not sure what's going on mentally with PLD and if he'll be a good fit in NY (or MTL).
I feel like the Rangers haven't had a good French-Canadian since one season of Benoit Pouliot. Haha
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in hockey is Pierre Luc-Dubois to be moved this off-season.
Most suspect to MTL, but I wonder if that's how the Rangers move Panarin (if he waives his NTC).
Now, Winnipeg is not exactly NYC or MIA) but maybe the Panarins have evolved.
PLD is an RFA due a $8M deal or so, so the money isn't *that* far off and it finally gets the Rangers an elite 2C. Trocheck is fine, but better suited as 3C.
Just not sure what's going on mentally with PLD and if he'll be a good fit in NY (or MTL).
I feel like the Rangers haven't had a good French-Canadian since one season of Benoit Pouliot. Haha
I know you will say “good” but
Lafreniere?
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In comment 16106895 pjcas18 said:
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in hockey is Pierre Luc-Dubois to be moved this off-season.
Most suspect to MTL, but I wonder if that's how the Rangers move Panarin (if he waives his NTC).
Now, Winnipeg is not exactly NYC or MIA) but maybe the Panarins have evolved.
PLD is an RFA due a $8M deal or so, so the money isn't *that* far off and it finally gets the Rangers an elite 2C. Trocheck is fine, but better suited as 3C.
Just not sure what's going on mentally with PLD and if he'll be a good fit in NY (or MTL).
I feel like the Rangers haven't had a good French-Canadian since one season of Benoit Pouliot. Haha
I know you will say “good” but
Lafreniere?
Laf is closer to Nail fucking Yakupov than he is to Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Matthews, etc. In hindsight, it should've been Stutzle, but Laf was the consensus pick so I don't fault the Rangers for that...I fault their development.
It makes sense if you think they're busts and you believe you can recoup any kind of value for them
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With the exception of Zibby and Kreider, I’d do everything in my power to get rid of everyone older than Shesty.
It makes sense if you think they're busts and you believe you can recoup any kind of value for them
If you think they’re busts, why would you think someone else is going to give you anything of value for them? Picks are worthless unless you’re tearing the whole thing down. Players you get back are likely to be older than the ones you’re trading and not particularly good.
Emotions are clouding people minds.....
What a garbage franchise lol
I wish the Rangers would Benoit themselves
Look at the organization from a macro viewpoint.
They’ve won ONE cup in 83 years. Even a blind squirrel finds a but occasionally.
But not them. The Rangers have ALWAYS been about short term fixes and trying to buy there way. This rarely works and is NOT sustainable. There problem is properly building a team from the ground up.
They had their chance recently with all the high draft picks. 5 high #1s. Including a top pick and 2nd overall. ALL busts. NONE developed into the center piece they had to be for this team to get somewhere. So instead, they acquire guys like Kane who clearly was a mistake. The core of this team will win in the regular season. But in the playoffs, they are consistently LESS then the sum of the parts.
Are they a grinding team? A speed team? Even they don’t know. With Dolan as owner, I don’t see this changing. Drury has done his best, but what were his qualifications to build a Cup winner when Dolan cleaned house?
I see an organization consistently spinning its wheels.
Emotions are clouding people minds.....
I would have liked their chances if they did. This post-season is WIDE open now. Rangers' window is open to win a Cup/Cups. They need to strike while they can. You're certainly right about it being an emotional time. Shame.
Yuu should peek in with Ottawa about deBrincat, he'd give you another goal scorer and it looks like you need one. I bet sucker Pierre Dorian would let you pawn off Laf on us too.
Panarin had a total of ZERO points in his last 6 games. He should be embarrassed.
Gerard Gallant in his last 4 playoff eliminations:
Up 1-0 vs WSH, lost in 5.
Up 3-1 vs SJS, lost in 7.
Up 2-0 vs TBL, lost in 6.
Up 2-0 vs NJD, lost in 7.
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Be favorite to win the Stanley Cup...with the Avenlache and Bruins going down.
Emotions are clouding people minds.....
I would have liked their chances if they did. This post-season is WIDE open now. Rangers' window is open to win a Cup/Cups. They need to strike while they can. You're certainly right about it being an emotional time. Shame.
What sort of window do these guys really have? Their better forwards are older vets. The young kids aren’t/haven’t developed. How much flexibility does Drury have to retool this roster? My guess is not too much changes this summer, the Rangers finish 3rd or so in the Metro, and we’re all back here next year after a first or 2nd round KO.
I do agree that Cuylle and Othmann will be on the team next year, maybe even Berard. I hate to see Goodrow go, he's one of the few players who showed up for all 7 games this series, but his contract is completely unmanageable in the current financial climate in the NHL. I figure that of the current 12 forwards, Tarasenko, Kane, Goodrow, Motte are not going to be back. There's an outside chance that Kane comes back seeing how badly he wanted to come here. Question would be if he is wanted, which I believe will depend on his health.
This team lacks heart and desire. Such a tease!!!
Feel sorry for Igor.
This organization does a terrible horrible job of developing young talent.
I need to step away from thinking about hockey for awhile. I’m always left disappointed. The life of a Ranger fan
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In comment 16106931 George from PA said:
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Be favorite to win the Stanley Cup...with the Avenlache and Bruins going down.
Emotions are clouding people minds.....
I would have liked their chances if they did. This post-season is WIDE open now. Rangers' window is open to win a Cup/Cups. They need to strike while they can. You're certainly right about it being an emotional time. Shame.
What sort of window do these guys really have? Their better forwards are older vets. The young kids aren’t/haven’t developed. How much flexibility does Drury have to retool this roster? My guess is not too much changes this summer, the Rangers finish 3rd or so in the Metro, and we’re all back here next year after a first or 2nd round KO.
There is a dearth of worthwhile, free agents this offseason, and with as steady as he played in big minutes after the trade, feels like someone is bound to throw at least a 3 x $3.5M or something like that at him.
Rangers better hope for Toronto to come out of the east. Without them, the ratings are going to SUCKKKKK and there is little hope of any kind of cap increase. NY, MIN, BOS, and TBL markets eliminated is a huge hit to the negative side of that equation. Which makes last night's loss even more painful.
They need a coaching change, especially if they plan to hold on to both of Kakko and Laf. The development simply isn't happening under Turk's watch.
The Rangers have another prospect from that same Providence team, also a 5th round pick but in 2021, Jaroslav Chmelar from Czechia, this kid is one I'd keep an eye on, really stood out at the world juniors and is just growing in to his 6'5" 200 pound frame. - see how his sophomore year goes at Providence.
Blueshirts Breakaway podcast alluding to somee rumblings that Kane has let it be known that he wants to be here even in spite of the team's obvious financial constraints and is willing to make it work.
He seems like a shoe-in for offseason hip surgery, so who knows what that market looks like anyhow. Not something I'm super excited about, but in theory there's a price low enough that betting on a healthier version of Kane has upside. He's not ancient.
They need:
A top 6 RW (maybe two)
A top 6 D
Backup goalie
UFAs: Tarasenko, Kane, Motte, Mikkola, Halak
RFAs: Lafreniere, Miller, Hajek, Jones
I wouldn't sign any UFA's except Halak unless it was very team friendly
I'd keep Lafreniere and Miller, Miller I could let go in the right way if I were the Rangers.
The problem going forward is there are NTC's in contracts for Panarin, Trouba & Kreider and there are younger players who have to be signed.
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In comment 16106904 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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With the exception of Zibby and Kreider, I’d do everything in my power to get rid of everyone older than Shesty.
It makes sense if you think they're busts and you believe you can recoup any kind of value for them
If you think they’re busts, why would you think someone else is going to give you anything of value for them? Picks are worthless unless you’re tearing the whole thing down. Players you get back are likely to be older than the ones you’re trading and not particularly good.
...Because other teams may see them as worthy reclamation projects...
The Rangers have another prospect from that same Providence team, also a 5th round pick but in 2021, Jaroslav Chmelar from Czechia, this kid is one I'd keep an eye on, really stood out at the world juniors and is just growing in to his 6'5" 200 pound frame. - see how his sophomore year goes at Providence.
As for prospects, I think Brennan Othmann and Will Cuylle make the team next year. Matthew Robertson, who admittedly I haven't been following very closely, could replace Mikkola on the third pair.
Trying to determine the best route if there's a plan to move on from Gallant.
The problem going forward is there are NTC's in contracts for Panarin, Trouba & Kreider and there are younger players who have to be signed.
Wasn't that the issue when Dolan fired Gordon and JD. If so, and I ten to agree with you, this is an indictment of Drury.
Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
1h
Joel Quenneville hasn’t been officially cleared by the NHL. A formal interview request will likely encourage the commissioners approval. With existing coaching vacancies and speculation around the NYR, Quenneville’s return to a bench is a strong possibility.
Greg Wyshynski
@wyshynski
·
1h
To further Darren’s point: The Quenneville chatter around the Rangers this series was deafening. As was, in the end, the chatter that Gallant could have coached his last NYR game on Monday.
Got to get some salty in there and some finesse out. I'd keep Laf but would be willing to deal Kakko if it helped get a deal done. Now it's clear (as expected) the talk of extending Miller for $6M per was premature, and none of their current RFAs should be breaking the bank this Summer. Drury's got to figure out how to make this team better 5x5 and better built for the playoffs, and shiny (injured) toys like Kane shouldn't be centerpiece moves.
Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
1h
Joel Quenneville hasn’t been officially cleared by the NHL. A formal interview request will likely encourage the commissioners approval. With existing coaching vacancies and speculation around the NYR, Quenneville’s return to a bench is a strong possibility.
Greg Wyshynski
@wyshynski
·
1h
To further Darren’s point: The Quenneville chatter around the Rangers this series was deafening. As was, in the end, the chatter that Gallant could have coached his last NYR game on Monday.
It's a shame it's come to this because Gallant had back-to-back 100+ point seasons with us. Statistically, he has the best W-L record of any Rangers coach. And yeah, only two years in. So from the inside looking in, it would seem like we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.
But you look at the Playoffs. You look at how, not even badly, but how lifeless the Rangers looked last year against the Lightning and this year against the Devils. You see how utterly outcoached he was by Jon Cooper and Lindy Ruff.
Gallant, if fired, will 100% get another HC job. No question about it. And perhaps he will get over that hump of being thoroughly outcoached in the Playoffs. But there's a win-now mentality with the Rangers and they can't afford to keep dicking around like this. They need to develop their youngsters, they need their vets to produce in the Playoffs and yes, they need to win a fucking Cup, especially when you have the best G in the world, a top-5 defenseman, a top-10 C, one of the best PP players in the NHL, etc.
With Quenneville at the helm, that's more likely to happen than with Gallant. Quenneville has been to the mountaintop a few times. He's won it all a few times. He cemented himself as one of the greatest head coaches of this generation. Hiring Quenneville would instill more confidence in this team in not just making the playoffs, but actuallylly making a legitimate run.
Trying to determine the best route if there's a plan to move on from Gallant.
IDK. As an X's and O's guy, he's phenomenal. Like he's legit brilliant. But obviously a lot more goes into head coaching than that.
Trying to determine the best route if there's a plan to move on from Gallant.
Isn't he a goalie coach?
I don't know much about him other than he's a huge Rangers fan, and I'm not sure I've seen a fan become a coach.
It reminds me of if Jack Edwards became the Bruins coach, lol though Valaiquette has a lot more solid analysis than "Marchand caves in Barkov" or "Pasta A-frames along the side wall and dishes to Bergeron"
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If Darren Dreger is tweeting this at 8am it's a good bet he has some insight into what's going on. Then to have Greg Wyshynski add to it, well...
Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
1h
Joel Quenneville hasn’t been officially cleared by the NHL. A formal interview request will likely encourage the commissioners approval. With existing coaching vacancies and speculation around the NYR, Quenneville’s return to a bench is a strong possibility.
Greg Wyshynski
@wyshynski
·
1h
To further Darren’s point: The Quenneville chatter around the Rangers this series was deafening. As was, in the end, the chatter that Gallant could have coached his last NYR game on Monday.
It's a shame it's come to this because Gallant had back-to-back 100+ point seasons with us. Statistically, he has the best W-L record of any Rangers coach. And yeah, only two years in. So from the inside looking in, it would seem like we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.
But you look at the Playoffs. You look at how, not even badly, but how lifeless the Rangers looked last year against the Lightning and this year against the Devils. You see how utterly outcoached he was by Jon Cooper and Lindy Ruff.
Gallant, if fired, will 100% get another HC job. No question about it. And perhaps he will get over that hump of being thoroughly outcoached in the Playoffs. But there's a win-now mentality with the Rangers and they can't afford to keep dicking around like this. They need to develop their youngsters, they need their vets to produce in the Playoffs and yes, they need to win a fucking Cup, especially when you have the best G in the world, a top-5 defenseman, a top-10 C, one of the best PP players in the NHL, etc.
With Quenneville at the helm, that's more likely to happen than with Gallant. Quenneville has been to the mountaintop a few times. He's won it all a few times. He cemented himself as one of the greatest head coaches of this generation. Hiring Quenneville would instill more confidence in this team in not just making the playoffs, but actuallylly making a legitimate run.
Or they promote from within. Knoblauch took the Wolfpack from the dregs of the AHL to now being one win away from the conference finals.
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I do not see Gallant being fired. The Kane deal was a massive mistake, and one that I saw coming. I wanted no parts of him at all. This is like when they acquired Eric Staal and got beat in the first round by Pittsburgh. Rangers already had a guy in Panarin who is basically Kane, and makes $11.5M a year to do nothing. The bottom line is when the Devils raised their game and intensity, the Rangers withered away and didn't battle, didn't contest. Too many finesse players on this roster. The only one who showed up every night was Igor. At the rate the Rangers are going, they will spoil Igors career like they did to Henrik.
The problem going forward is there are NTC's in contracts for Panarin, Trouba & Kreider and there are younger players who have to be signed.
Wasn't that the issue when Dolan fired Gordon and JD. If so, and I ten to agree with you, this is an indictment of Drury.
The Rangers are stuck in contract purgatory thanks to Gorton. The roster is still heavy with Gorton's players. Drury didn't have to get Kane, that smells like it has Sather influence all over it. The roster had too many big names, Tarasenko was more than enough to complement what they had. But for whatever reason this team continues to be mentally fragile, for what feels like forever.
However, the cost for Kane was minimal and he was an improvement IMO over Vesey or Goodrow or whoever else they would have on the RW1 or RW2 spots.
Using Kane as an excuse to fire Drury (or to even highlight a big mistake) or using it as a reason for the Rangers playoff shortcomings is scapegoating.
it was an unnecessary move but a pretty harmless move
Laf has more of an issue skating than Kakko.
They both need to really work on that this offseason.
Just unaware from what I have read, but he probably should have been aware of it.
I hate "death penalties" since I believe in redemption, but I'm not sure if he should coach again, but I'm also not sure I have all the facts or my opinion is right about this.
The Devils built their team the right way. That Hughes contract is incredible. And they are flushed with young prospects who will add value as guys get too pricey.
Rangers were such a slow team. They need more speed and a stronger forecheck.
Drury needs to go. This team hasn't had an outside GM since Sather was hired in 2000. And the franchise has not won shit in that time period, it's not even like the Giants handing Dave Gettleman a job.
THIS IS NOT DOLAN OR SATHER OR DRURY BASHING.
The Rangers DNA even before Dolan was to bring in older "stars" at the end of their primes or careers. It worked once and that's why Mark Messier who is an Edmonton Oiler is a NY Sports god. But it's an awful philosophy for building a championship team. Dolan wants stars. That's who he is. I believe whoever is the Rangers GM is going to operate the way Drury has since he has taken over. I think JD is gone because he didn't fall in line.
Joel Quenneville as the Rangers HC? Are you guys ok with him? I have read a little bit about the Chicago abuse situation and correct me if I'm wrong Quenneville prioritized winning the Cup over doing the right thing in a heinous crime. This is what he said when he resigned in October 2021.
Does Quenneville have to apply for reinstatement?
I think if he's named Rangers coach the NY media will be difficult for him to deal with. Maybe for once having Dolan as owner will be a benefit. He couldn't care less about the media or what anyone thinks.
If I was GM of the Rangers I'd see what I could get back for Adam Fox. He's the only big money contract that doesn't have a NMC.
You're welcome to flame me for wanting to trade Fox but after you do that what would be a realistic return? I think the Rangers roster needs a culture shock. Just my .2.
This!
The Devils built their team the right way. That Hughes contract is incredible. And they are flushed with young prospects who will add value as guys get too pricey.
Rangers were such a slow team. They need more speed and a stronger forecheck.
Drury needs to go. This team hasn't had an outside GM since Sather was hired in 2000. And the franchise has not won shit in that time period, it's not even like the Giants handing Dave Gettleman a job.
Brett, would you mind elaborating why you're so down on Drury? Two years on the job, there's obviously been questionable moves but I think on the whole he's done a solid job and it's been more good than bad. He's much further down the list for me on where I'm looking to make changes. His league-wide reputation seems much stronger than it is with the fan base.
Gallant, on the other hand, absolutely needs to go. This was a very talented roster that the coach couldn't figure out how to make work and adjust as the series went along. You're just delaying the inevitable by bringing him back
The Devils built their team the right way. That Hughes contract is incredible. And they are flushed with young prospects who will add value as guys get too pricey.
Rangers were such a slow team. They need more speed and a stronger forecheck.
Drury needs to go. This team hasn't had an outside GM since Sather was hired in 2000. And the franchise has not won shit in that time period, it's not even like the Giants handing Dave Gettleman a job.
Rangers as a team are not only slow (is speed of play reduceable to a number or short comment on a page; maybe it isn't), but indecisive on the ice (another aspect of play hard to reduce to something on a page) and inaccurate as shooters. The slowest, least decisive, and most inaccurate of them need to go to be replaced with players who are faster, more decisive about what they should be doing out there on both O and D, and more able and accurate in their shooting. Dury has shown he does not understand any of this and is clearly unable to correct what he seems blind to.
Quenneville feels like far too on the nose as a Dolan/Sather shiny toy play.
I'd even go back to the Zibanejad extension, an enormously risky move. I advocated trading Zibanejad and going after Eichel, but I think it was a terrible contract that is going to kill us.
Add in moves like signing Trocheck and Goodrow - they were moves to compete now that are handcuffing us. The trades he make also lead to limitations in the usage of the kids. The development of Laf and Kakko also lands on his shoulders. No powerplay time, shitty minutes, etc. They would be much better players elsewhere.
He got a good return for Lundkvist but it never should have gone that far. Same with Kravtsov. Rumors were the Sabres wanted a first, Lundkvist, and Kravtsov for Eichel. That would have been an insane bargain. He has no idea how to develop young players - this has been an issue for the franchise forever.
I think he did a good job at least year's deadline and with the Lundkvist deal. But the Rangers are good largely because of Igor, Fox, and regular season Panarin. He did nothing to get those players. And now we're two years in with no Cup, a top six full of old, slow players and a narrowing window.
Skating is probably the most correctable thing in hockey. The only thing I notice about Lafreniere is his edge work. Kakko I notice it less.
but my wonder is how much is Rangers skating coach, and how much is Lafreniere.
But also, as a fan, it's hard to not compare Lafreniere with McDavid, Hughes, Crosby, etc. - who are elite skaters with world class edge work and that was never Lafreniere.
I'm not quite as worried about his skating because what he lacks in speed and agility he seems to make up for in strength on the puck.
He's got a sort of gravitational shield that kind of jumps out the way it did with Jagr. Obviously nowhere near that stratosphere of impact on the game thus far, but it's the best thing I can compare it to.
Time for Drury to start over.
THIS IS NOT DOLAN OR SATHER OR DRURY BASHING.
The Rangers DNA even before Dolan was to bring in older "stars" at the end of their primes or careers. It worked once and that's why Mark Messier who is an Edmonton Oiler is a NY Sports god. But it's an awful philosophy for building a championship team. Dolan wants stars. That's who he is. I believe whoever is the Rangers GM is going to operate the way Drury has since he has taken over. I think JD is gone because he didn't fall in line.
Joel Quenneville as the Rangers HC? Are you guys ok with him? I have read a little bit about the Chicago abuse situation and correct me if I'm wrong Quenneville prioritized winning the Cup over doing the right thing in a heinous crime. This is what he said when he resigned in October 2021.
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"I want to express my sorrow for the pain this young man, Kyle Beach, has suffered. My former team, the Blackhawks, failed Kyle and I own my share of that," Quenneville said in a statement to TSN. "I want to reflect on how all of this happened and take the time to educate myself on ensuring hockey spaces are safe for everyone."
Does Quenneville have to apply for reinstatement?
I think if he's named Rangers coach the NY media will be difficult for him to deal with. Maybe for once having Dolan as owner will be a benefit. He couldn't care less about the media or what anyone thinks.
If I was GM of the Rangers I'd see what I could get back for Adam Fox. He's the only big money contract that doesn't have a NMC.
You're welcome to flame me for wanting to trade Fox but after you do that what would be a realistic return? I think the Rangers roster needs a culture shock. Just my .2.
Hughes, Hischer AND Mercer for less than $16MM.
Tom Fitgerald is a magician.
This combined with their inability to carry the puck killed them.
They have continued to move away from players that have played well with Panarin to get guys they think would compliment him.
Need to get back to having a guy like Fast on his wing, D first skater that crashes the net.(and not Goodrow) And he needs to work on hitting the net cause his shot was all over
Time to break up the kid line and add some grit. Meier didnt score but did leave an impact on series. We need someone that can do that. Neither Laf or Kakko effects the game enough when they dont score.
Kane is toast. I understand why they tried it but it did not work out and they pushed the cap so much we couldnt even have someone qualified to akate in his place.
Im done with Gallant.
True, but only if the Rangers ate a lot of his cap hit. No one wants him at anywhere close to the second highest salary in the league after McDavid (well, no one except Dolan).
the thing about Lafreniere was never any individual standout skill, but more the "sum of his parts" kind of player and IMO those players just take longer to develop.
Not making excuses, I have no investment in Lafreniere but my observations were always he did everything well, nothing exceptionally and as a #1 overall pick that's tough.
Also I feel like Shane Wright was way more hyped than Lafreniere and fortunately (seriously I mean it as a good thing for him) Wright fell in the draft. He was basically anointed the top pick in the 2022 draft when he was 14 years old and he's a lot like Lafreniere IMO.
I think both Wright and Lafreniere will go down as good NHL hockey players who have the light bulb come on at some point in their early 20's.
And also, in his draft class, Lafreniere is still 2nd in goals behind only Stutzle who was always a better scoring prospect and as mentioned (like Lucas Raymond) has been helped out by a) being on non-competitive teams and b) having a lot of power play time.
If I was GM of the Rangers I'd see what I could get back for Adam Fox. He's the only big money contract that doesn't have a NMC.
You're welcome to flame me for wanting to trade Fox but after you do that what would be a realistic return? I think the Rangers roster needs a culture shock. Just my .2.
I won’t flame you for the idea, I’ll join you on the “see what they can get” train. While Fox is good, he seems to get lost easily which leads to his turnovers. IMO opinion the Rangers need a bigger “offensive” defenseman similar to Montour or the upcoming Bouchard from Edmonton.
I'd even go back to the Zibanejad extension, an enormously risky move. I advocated trading Zibanejad and going after Eichel, but I think it was a terrible contract that is going to kill us.
Add in moves like signing Trocheck and Goodrow - they were moves to compete now that are handcuffing us. The trades he make also lead to limitations in the usage of the kids. The development of Laf and Kakko also lands on his shoulders. No powerplay time, shitty minutes, etc. They would be much better players elsewhere.
He got a good return for Lundkvist but it never should have gone that far. Same with Kravtsov. Rumors were the Sabres wanted a first, Lundkvist, and Kravtsov for Eichel. That would have been an insane bargain. He has no idea how to develop young players - this has been an issue for the franchise forever.
I think he did a good job at least year's deadline and with the Lundkvist deal. But the Rangers are good largely because of Igor, Fox, and regular season Panarin. He did nothing to get those players. And now we're two years in with no Cup, a top six full of old, slow players and a narrowing window.
Plenty of fair points. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried that we're in danger of having already plateaued. I'll just rattle off some random thoughts and responses.
I don't think the window is closed though. It's tough to extend a window significantly in a league that can't seem to find a way to raise the salary cap. But each GM plays within the same rules and it's not something that should have caught Drury by surprise. I think he's an effective trader. Free agency, much less so. If we buy the idea that Tarasenko/Mikkola was his main deadline idea, and Kane was sort of forced on him, I think he had two relatively effective deadlines overall. Just my opinion, but the Rangers didn't lose this series because of that deadline. Tarasenko was very good. It's a bummer he's unlikely to be back. Let's see if he can clear some space and offload Goodrow
I'll still take Zibanejad over Eichel. I think he's a better player now and what he gives up in age he makes up for with overall durability. There are way bigger issues for this team than Zibanejad at $8.5M a year. But it's an interesting fork in the road that I had forgotten about.
Quantifying the mix of responsibility for Laf and Kakko being solid but not great (yet) is hard to determine. Is it coaching, on the front office, on the players themselves to a certain extent? Hard for me to say that entirely falls on Drury. We'd like them to get more ice time, more powerplay time. But at whose expense? We're all down on Panarin right now, and rightfully so, but the guy puts up 90 points a season without breaking a sweat. It's not like these are high priced busts that are blocking the path of the young kids. I still think Kakko and Lafreniere have good futures here. We also can't ding the team for poor development of young players but not give credit for Chytil, K'Andre, Lindgren, even Fox to a certain extent. Just being fair. There are still solid prospects in the pipeline that we'll need to contribute starting next year.
When you stumble on a vezina and norris winner, the timeline to win gets expedited. Without a doubt, he's put himself in a bit of a bind with the free agency deals he signed with the idea of winning now. Not saying he's been phenomenal. But as long as Fox and Igor are in place, that window is still open as far as I'm concerned and this is still a good roster (although don't ask me what happens if they can't afford to resign Igor in two years, yikes).
One move I think Drury got right was his first big call when he got the job, firing Quinn. Now he's got another big decision on his plate with the Gallant situation. Can't overstate how poor he was when things turned against him in each elimination the last two years. The roster can probably only be tweaked, so he needs to find a coach that can better unlock the group schematically.
Thanks for the follow-up, Brett!
It's mind boggling that Sather is apparently still in the mix when we thought he was retiring in 2016!
I think they could have had a run of contention like Toronto (a team I think is mostly very well built) or TBL and now I think it's going to be a bit shorter.
I think the Kane trade was beyond stupid and showed no hockey sense. Kane was bad this year. The Rangers needed a strong forechecker or a dman.
I don't give the Rangers credit for Fox as he was such a stud immediately. I will give them credit for Miller.
I go back and forth on Chytil because I think they should have given him 2C minutes instead of signing Trocheck. That just felt like a short-sighted move.
I think the Rangers got boxed in with Panarin wanting to come here and the cap due to COVID. But the Rangers really can just never plan ahead. They got so much luck (Fox wanting to come here, Igor turning into what he is, the ping pong balls) but always shoot themselves in the food.
I think teams should look to aim to build a 5 year contention window, even if as a secondary contender, rather than constantly trying to maximize the immediate year.
pj brought up Pierre Luc Dubois. I'd love to have him. But dumb moves like Goodrow and Trocheck mean we can't get him.
In the post game presser, Gallant all but said it ain't about talent. It's about will and work ethic. Rangers don't have either.
I don't want to sound like an entitled fan that "expects" championships but the way this roster was built and how the playoffs started, I thought we were in for another run similar to last year. Obviously, putting things in perspective there a much more important things in life than sports teams' success but I was just hoping for a bit of joy amongst a crappy year.
Apologies Gentlemen, I don't want to bring the mood down any worse but this feels good to type and share with Rangers fans. I am not the only person who is dealing with a loss. Thank you for the venting space.
I'm like a broken record on this, but so much in hockey can be traced to a face-off win or loss. I watch and cringe on the PP when the team with the PP has a center who isn't good on the dots, lose the face-off clean and have it iced the other way. it kills off maybe 30 second or 25% of the PP, then if you struggle to enter the zone you basically have a min or less to get set up.
Face-offs are also fixable to players who put in the work. it's one of those areas why some young players start at wing and move to center. Kotkaniemi on CAR is a good example. Still just 22 years old, but brutal on the dots in MTL (not Chytil bad, but bad) now he's at 51.4% for CAR.
2023 face off numbers for Rangers centers
Trocheck 56.1%
Mika 49.5%
Chytil 39.8% - unless he's playing on a line with another player who can take face-offs (which some teams do) he can't be your 2C with those numbers
Goodrow 45.9%
As a team the Rangers were 49.1% which isn't bad, but it's also not great. They lost 85+ more face-offs than they won.
I don't want to sound like an entitled fan that "expects" championships but the way this roster was built and how the playoffs started, I thought we were in for another run similar to last year. Obviously, putting things in perspective there a much more important things in life than sports teams' success but I was just hoping for a bit of joy amongst a crappy year.
Apologies Gentlemen, I don't want to bring the mood down any worse but this feels good to type and share with Rangers fans. I am not the only person who is dealing with a loss. Thank you for the venting space.
Sometimes sharing can be therapeutic. Sorry for your loss Drew.
I don't want to sound like an entitled fan that "expects" championships but the way this roster was built and how the playoffs started, I thought we were in for another run similar to last year. Obviously, putting things in perspective there a much more important things in life than sports teams' success but I was just hoping for a bit of joy amongst a crappy year.
Apologies Gentlemen, I don't want to bring the mood down any worse but this feels good to type and share with Rangers fans. I am not the only person who is dealing with a loss. Thank you for the venting space.
I'm sorry for your loss, man...I lost my brother in law to pancreatic cancer last February. I've also lost my college roommate to cancer in the last couple months, and another colleague and good friend got leukemia out of the blue at 55 years old and has a couple months left. Brutal couple of years for me...lost a sister, mother, grandfather, mother in law, her sister, and several friends. It is ok to find the joy in the small things. As Bruce says, it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive. Keep your brothers memory, and God Bless.
I don't want to sound like an entitled fan that "expects" championships but the way this roster was built and how the playoffs started, I thought we were in for another run similar to last year. Obviously, putting things in perspective there a much more important things in life than sports teams' success but I was just hoping for a bit of joy amongst a crappy year.
Apologies Gentlemen, I don't want to bring the mood down any worse but this feels good to type and share with Rangers fans. I am not the only person who is dealing with a loss. Thank you for the venting space.
Don't ever apologize for that. I'm very sorry for your loss.
I lost my dad just under 2 weeks ago. He was sick for the last few years, and had a failed lung transplant 18 months ago. It was a slog, but the pain is no less in spite of the relief that he is no longer suffering.
I, too, am having a little tougher time today than I was over the course of the last few days after the services were all concluded and extended family flew home.
The Rangers were providing me with a much needed distraction, probably even moreso than I realized.
Sending strength your way, my man.
The mistake was not adjusting to the devils style of play and talent level. The Rangers roster is very good. They got outplayed by an equally dangerous team.
The only change worth making might be Gallant. ANd you can trade Panarin as long as we're getting back production because he is fucking maddening in the postseason.
To Gallant, about whom I've railed all season (you could look it up): when do you ever see him get in the face of any of those stars? He has two different standards, one for the untouchables, one for the kids. It was so odd to me last night, clear that game was getting out of hand, and he lit into Trochek for (what I think) was a failure to keep the puck inside the offensive zone. If there's an honest two-way guy on the top six, it's him, yet Gallant was reaming him out for a good 25-30 seconds, visible to all. He scapegoats.
He scapegoats: in the PG presser he scapegoated the 'talent' on the team (properly, but not the time). Why didn't the top six forecheck the way he obviously felt they should have but didn't? He benches Kakko, he benches Laf, he moves them around like deck chairs. I don't think the kids 'trust' him because of his double standard; I'll argue that he doesn't connect with them and that has hampered their development because they're on edge for doing something 'wrong'. When a game or series goes against him, he gets negative instead of adjusting.
Not a fan of Drury either, agree with Brett for the most part. I don't think there's a prayer in heaven he gets the hook.
Anyway, some earlier posters mentioned Trocheck, and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed in his play. I thought he was going to be a player who thrived in the playoffs, and he did not have any real impact on this series other than winning some faceoffs. Ideal situation regarding Kane is he gets surgery in the offseason, comes back at least 80% of what he once was, and signs for a team friendly deal. He so badly wanted to come here, and I would be happy to have him back to try again with a full season, healthy hip, and training camp. We've seen time and time again that these stars that get acquired late in the season very rarely succeed in their new homes. As far as Lafreniere and Kakko go, I just need to see one of them at least do what Chytil did this year. One or both of them will be back in the top 6 presumably, opportunities will be there, they have to start making more of an impact offensively.
The mistake was not adjusting to the devils style of play and talent level. The Rangers roster is very good. They got outplayed by an equally dangerous team.
The only change worth making might be Gallant. ANd you can trade Panarin as long as we're getting back production because he is fucking maddening in the postseason.
Very reasonable and rationale take. I agree with everything.
The mistake was not adjusting to the devils style of play and talent level. The Rangers roster is very good. They got outplayed by an equally dangerous team.
The only change worth making might be Gallant. ANd you can trade Panarin as long as we're getting back production because he is fucking maddening in the postseason.
Why do you think they couldn't adjust? Because they had a player who can't skate or handle a pass in their top six.
He totally disrupted their powerplay too. Comforting yourself with him being a 'respected player' is why the Rangers make dumb mistakes like this.
If you look back this time last year, so many hockey fans wondering "How does Gallant wear out his welcome so quickly after it seems like he has early success everywhere?"
Well you get out coached by Lindy Ruff and that explains it.
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If you look back this time last year, so many hockey fans wondering "How does Gallant wear out his welcome so quickly after it seems like he has early success everywhere?"
Well you get out coached by Lindy Ruff and that explains it.
I'm stunned I'm advocating for his dismissal.
It's much less about the tangible result - the Devils are a very good team and losing in 7 is on the surface respectable - and more about how it happened.
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In comment 16107426 Anakim said:
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If you look back this time last year, so many hockey fans wondering "How does Gallant wear out his welcome so quickly after it seems like he has early success everywhere?"
Well you get out coached by Lindy Ruff and that explains it.
I'm stunned I'm advocating for his dismissal.
It's much less about the tangible result - the Devils are a very good team and losing in 7 is on the surface respectable - and more about how it happened.
That's really what it comes down to. If they lose 3-2 in OT last night, OK, it happens. Two of the last three games of the series, they were completely out-skated, could not have played with lower intensity. How much of that is on the coach? Shouldn't the players be held accountable for their energy level? Is it a little of both because the team has started to tune out Gallant? If so, is it truly a Gallant issue or is this a concern that it will happen with the next coach? It's so hard to know what is really going on behind the scenes, but one thing that is very easy to see is this team did not come anywhere close to matching the intensity of their opponents in this series.
You watched the Rangers do nothing to adjust on their own to what the Devils were doing in games 4 and 5. and then Game 6 and 7 they shuffled lines thinking that is how you beat a neutral zone trap.
Link - ( New Window )
I don't think the Ranges are immaculately run but I think you're being a bit unfair. They didn't draft Igor and develop Igor? Nothing about their moderate recent success is due to good decisions? Feels hyperbolic, but I respect the opinion.
Allaire deserves credit, I guess.
Glad to hear the chatter that Gallant is on his way out
Rangers in my eyes have been handed gift after gift and bungled it.
Drury isn't the real power anyway. It's still Sather, as it always is.
Rangers in my eyes have been handed gift after gift and bungled it.
Yeah especially in hockey. Most GMs do try to shortcut it. There's a lot of bad situations out there. Maybe I'm naive, I'm just not quite as pessimistic about the team moving forward. Toronto was referenced earlier. But they stayed patient with a highly paid core that repeatedly couldn't get it done. Now they look primed for a run
Look how young they are. Matthews is 25, Marner is 26 in a few days. Their stars have 5 years left.
The Rangers stars don't.
I also think they got majorly unlucky being in the Atlantic. Playing Boston or TBL every year, lol.
Dubas could have easily broke the team up after any one of the first round losses though, but he stayed patient. I want to do the same. There's another step the Rangers can take if they can get Kakko and Lafreniere to take another step. Any coach I'm interviewing, I need to know what the plan is to get the most out of the young players.
Look how young they are. Matthews is 25, Marner is 26 in a few days. Their stars have 5 years left.
The Rangers stars don't.
I also think they got majorly unlucky being in the Atlantic. Playing Boston or TBL every year, lol.
Matthews has one year left on his contract and Marner has two. Is that what you meant or years before they're in their 30's?
The problem in Toronto has been they have been very top heavy.
their core 4 (Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Rielly) cost over a $40M cap hit, that's almost 50% of the cap. Nylander, Kerfoot Brodie and Matt Murray is another $20M.
$60M of the $82.5M cap in 8 out of 23 players.
So in the past if you stop their top line, you would beat them.
They also got "lucky" with some LTIR and were able to add O'Reilly
Kyle, I don't want to break it up. They can compete and win next year. I'm just very worried about Panarin and the forwards - I think Panarin is already in decline.
As CHP pointed out, not one of their best players stepped up when the team needed it most vs the Devils. I agree with CHP, it's red flags not to be ignored.
Their cap situation might lead to it being ignored, in the end. Perhaps the next coach can address it, but it doesn't get much worse than the manner of the losses to NJD.
They both did it to the entire league all year.
The shitty part is that it doesn't seem likely to change, but if you dropped this NYR team out west, or even just on the other side of the East bracket, they wouldn't be so neutralized.
There are some serious issues with contract terms and NMC clauses that we're going to have no choice but to ride out, but I don't think the reality is quite as bleak as it feels today.
By hook or crook, the roster is going to largely be what it is right now. Shake up the coaching staff and scheme, ideally with someone better positioned to change the trajectory on KK and Laf, and let's ride. It's really the only sensible option as far as I can see.
Yep. The more things have changed, the more they stay the same. Until Glen Sather is completely out of the picture, which doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon, I don't expect things to be much different.
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for a player who basically put up about a point a game and is one of the most respected vet NHL players going, is not a "massive mistake." Calm down.
The mistake was not adjusting to the devils style of play and talent level. The Rangers roster is very good. They got outplayed by an equally dangerous team.
The only change worth making might be Gallant. ANd you can trade Panarin as long as we're getting back production because he is fucking maddening in the postseason.
Why do you think they couldn't adjust? Because they had a player who can't skate or handle a pass in their top six.
He totally disrupted their powerplay too. Comforting yourself with him being a 'respected player' is why the Rangers make dumb mistakes like this.
Fine he wasn't great. It still wasn't a massive mistake. If we're playing tomorrow night Kane would have been a good legit top 6 threat.
Didn't matter though because the problem pointed out by Henrik, Vally and even Micholetti, and echoed by Gallant is that this group won't do the dirty work to win in the playoffs. They want to play tic tac toe rather than shoot and crash the net. THe usually oblivious Micholetti was harping on the PP not shooting and giving Kreider a chance for tips and rebounds. Lundqvist was all over them. Trocheck is a dumb player. Loses the puck forcing a blueline carry in, then argues when Gallant points it out to him.
Igor is the ONLY reason they weren't run in the river last night in the 1st period.
Do they have enough guys who they can reasonably turn over?
Quite frankly, they just haven't gotten nearly enough from the few high picks over the last few years.
The roster we have now is going to be pretty similar to the 2023-2024 roster IMO.
This was from March 10, I'll see if I can find something more recent but the point remains. I don't know they will duplicate that health next year unless they have unlocked some secret. If so, share with NYG.
@ManGamesLostNHL
If the Montreal Canadiens stopped playing hockey today it would take the New York Rangers 870+ more games to catch them in number of injuries https://mangameslost.com/nhl-man-games-lost-and-injury-metrics-march-10-2023/
@CanadiensMTL
@NYRangers
Lias-Traded for Cuylle
Kravtsov-Traded for cap room
Kakko-Two points against the Devils
Laf-Zero points against the Devils
Awful
What caused you to change your take? I'm not baiting or bashing, not my style, your take has significance. Was it the way the Series unfolded, or more granular? tnks
“Talent doesn’t mean a thing,” Gallant said in what might have been a critique of the structure of his team. “It’s great to have talent, but you’ve got to play together and work together. Obviously, the four games that we lost, we had two goals. That’s the bottom line. You’re not going to win if you get two goals in four games.”
“I love to have talent, but you love to have work ethic and more forecheck and stuff like that. We just didn’t get it done.”
The Rangers had all sorts of issues getting out of their own end.
The Rangers had all sorts of issues pinning the Devils in their end.
A fast team was made to look slow.
A buttoned-down squad was picked apart.
A poised team came undone.
That is on the players, nearly all of whom had substandard series.
But responsibility falls on the coaching staff as well.
The Devils improved by leaps and bounds during the series.
The Rangers — other than in Saturday’s 5-2 revival in staving off Game 6 elimination at the Garden — steadily deteriorated.
Igor Shesterkin had a remarkable series.
There will be consequences for massive Rangers disappointment - ( New Window )
thank you very much, CHP.
1st (their own) #24 I believe, 3rd (from the Avs in the Georgiev), and two 6ths (their own and WIN).
not sure if you go to capfriendly at all, but it's a great resource for cap, prospects, draft, etc. Below is the NYR link. it shows you their 2023 picks- trades, etc.
link - ( New Window )
What caused you to change your take? I'm not baiting or bashing, not my style, your take has significance. Was it the way the Series unfolded, or more granular? tnks
At a high level, we should keep the roster the same and go forward because we are a secondary contender and can still win a Cup. Also, there is really no choice. We have flexibility next off-season but we're shit out of luck this year.
In terms of Gallant, he needs to go based on how we lost. Lifeless efforts in games 5 and 7 and blowing a two game lead is inexcusable. He sucks as a tactician. He got outclassed by Sullivan, Cooper, and Ruff. Ruff is not some great coach. Losing in 7 is fine. Losing in 7 not showing up to two games and blowing a 2-0 lead is not.
Drury should go because he does nothing well, is a bad asset manager, and has made a number of decisions to shorten the window and hasn't won. His best moves were the 2022 deadline moves... that didn't lead to a Cup.
Telling - ( New Window )
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Confused after the Kane and Tarasenko trades!
1st (their own) #24 I believe, 3rd (from the Avs in the Georgiev), and two 6ths (their own and WIN).
not sure if you go to capfriendly at all, but it's a great resource for cap, prospects, draft, etc. Below is the NYR link. it shows you their 2023 picks- trades, etc. link - ( New Window )
Correct me if I'm wrong, but #24 can move up to #22 if the Kraken and Panthers advance
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In comment 16108362 Rick in Dallas said:
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Confused after the Kane and Tarasenko trades!
1st (their own) #24 I believe, 3rd (from the Avs in the Georgiev), and two 6ths (their own and WIN).
not sure if you go to capfriendly at all, but it's a great resource for cap, prospects, draft, etc. Below is the NYR link. it shows you their 2023 picks- trades, etc. link - ( New Window )
Correct me if I'm wrong, but #24 can move up to #22 if the Kraken and Panthers advance
Yes, 22, if both advance, 23 if just one does. And FLA advancing would be terrible since MTL owns that pick. If they advance it goes from 17 to 29 or greater.
This draft has probably a top 17 as good or better than any draft I can recall.
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In comment 16108396 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16108362 Rick in Dallas said:
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Confused after the Kane and Tarasenko trades!
1st (their own) #24 I believe, 3rd (from the Avs in the Georgiev), and two 6ths (their own and WIN).
not sure if you go to capfriendly at all, but it's a great resource for cap, prospects, draft, etc. Below is the NYR link. it shows you their 2023 picks- trades, etc. link - ( New Window )
Correct me if I'm wrong, but #24 can move up to #22 if the Kraken and Panthers advance
Yes, 22, if both advance, 23 if just one does. And FLA advancing would be terrible since MTL owns that pick. If they advance it goes from 17 to 29 or greater.
This draft has probably a top 17 as good or better than any draft I can recall.
Bummer for you. You have to root for the Maple Leafs to advance to the ECF, eh?
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In comment 16108528 Anakim said:
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In comment 16108396 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16108362 Rick in Dallas said:
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Confused after the Kane and Tarasenko trades!
1st (their own) #24 I believe, 3rd (from the Avs in the Georgiev), and two 6ths (their own and WIN).
not sure if you go to capfriendly at all, but it's a great resource for cap, prospects, draft, etc. Below is the NYR link. it shows you their 2023 picks- trades, etc. link - ( New Window )
Correct me if I'm wrong, but #24 can move up to #22 if the Kraken and Panthers advance
Yes, 22, if both advance, 23 if just one does. And FLA advancing would be terrible since MTL owns that pick. If they advance it goes from 17 to 29 or greater.
This draft has probably a top 17 as good or better than any draft I can recall.
Bummer for you. You have to root for the Maple Leafs to advance to the ECF, eh?
No, lol. I still can't do that. I'd rather get a bad draft pick then the Leafs move a step closer to a cup.
Maybe Drury told him he’s toast
- Gerard Gallant
Twitter - ( New Window )
- Gerard Gallant Twitter - ( New Window )
He has no accountability. None. It's pathetic.
- Gerard Gallant Twitter - ( New Window )
I get his point, but it sounds like he’s really not accepting accountability for the pathetic effort in game 7. It’s not that they lost… it’s the way they lost. If guys don’t respect the team enough to try harder than that, then it doesn’t say much for their respect for the coach. I heard some of the quotes from players about GG, but their actions spoke louder.
'If I can’t stand by my record, what I’ve done, then I think there’s something wrong'
Put down the crack pipe, dude. I guess he wasn't watching Games 3, 4, 5, and 7.
Get him out of here.
it's clear he can do some things to have some success, but it's also clear he can't sustain it. or he hasn't so far.
I don't think he's even made it all the way through the 3rd season anywhere, so if they fire Gallant the Rangers would be improving on what the other three teams who fired him eventually figured out.
"Now-pending UFA winger Patrick Kane told reporters at the Rangers’ end-of-season availability today that he was never 100 percent healthy after the trade to New York, but praised the team’s training staff for trying to get him there. Kane did not rule out off-season surgery for the lower-body injury that plagued him the entire 2022-23 season. Kane recorded one goal in seven playoff games for the Rangers and posted a career-low 57 points in the regular season (in a full season)."
We needed healthy players who could skate and forecheck.
Kane Injury Status - ( New Window )
Such a shame Rangers couldn't pepper him each game. Instead they let him pitch not one but two shutouts.
Absent that, are there any young geniuses to replace Kelly and be responsible for making adjustments?
"Now-pending UFA winger Patrick Kane told reporters at the Rangers’ end-of-season availability today that he was never 100 percent healthy after the trade to New York, but praised the team’s training staff for trying to get him there. Kane did not rule out off-season surgery for the lower-body injury that plagued him the entire 2022-23 season. Kane recorded one goal in seven playoff games for the Rangers and posted a career-low 57 points in the regular season (in a full season)."
We needed healthy players who could skate and forecheck. Kane Injury Status - ( New Window )
Everybody knew he was injured.
They should have went after Max Domi instead of Kane.
I was agreeing with you, lol.
I do believe, even in his injured state he was better than Vesey or whoever else on-roster they tried in that spot.
I also thought in game 7 he was the best NY Rangers player which may be a tallest midget contest but also maybe he juiced up the painkillers for game 7 to allow himself to play through his injury better.
Either way, NYR fans make it seem like they traded a young Bobby Orr to get Kane.
my take too.
Sometimes you have to take a big bold risk by taking that next step. That step may require the Rangers to step outside their comfort zone and wack the HC...
I was agreeing with you, lol.
No problem.
lonk - ( New Window )
Uhhhhhhh, why couldn't we do that again?
Uhhhhhhh, why couldn't we do that again?
A question I've been asking myself all evening.
Uhhhhhhh, why couldn't we do that again?
1. Cause Rangers didn't play as a team
2. They suck
3. They thought they'd just get the cup if they just showed up.
4. All of the above
I think I'll go with #4.
Leach really intrigues me.
Rangers need faster forwards who can do the same (this is why they should have went after Max Domi and not Patrick Kane). Rangers have plenty of toughness: Trouba, Lindgren, and Schneider are all pretty tough players.
Rangers need faster forwards who can do the same (this is why they should have went after Max Domi and not Patrick Kane). Rangers have plenty of toughness: Trouba, Lindgren, and Schneider are all pretty tough players.
to me that's coaching.
That's probably something that frustrates fans. Last year in my opinion, Kakko, Lafreniere, and Chytil was the best forechecking line the Rangers had and they were great in the playoffs.
Seemed like they'd have shifts where they cycled for 90 seconds and generated some good scoring chances.
Where was that, this year?
I don't think players skill gets worse over a year, but effort/scheme/role can change.
I put that on the coach, maybe I'm shifting blame off players because I don't have a better answer, but do you?
Serious question, I was disappointed (and I'm not even a Rangers fan) and I'm still trying to understand why they were so flat and seemed lethargic after two dominant games vs NJD.
I think Kakko actually looked pretty good this post-season, but didn't put up the necessary points (again). Laf was invisible.
I think so, but less bullish than I once was. There is always risk with prospects, in hockey especially. It's kind of like baseball since you're drafting 17/18 year old kids.
I don't think either one of them could have been drafted into a worse situation.
it's rare I guess that competitive teams expected to contend get draft picks as high as #1 and #2 overall.
And not making excuses for them, but on a middling or crappy team both Lafreniere and Kakko would have been consistently in the top 6, on PP1 and getting top minutes.
It is a balance where the Rangers were expected to contend but also bring them along and develop them.
of the last 10 #1 overall picks Lafreniere was ranked 7th by the Athletic (ahead of Hischier, Ekblad, and Slafkovsky in order)
I think that's probably right (Owen Power being ahead of him I'm not sure about though), but I hope Slafkovsky makes them eat their words as does Lafreniere.
No idea, but I do hear a lot of podcasts suggesting a trade to MTL. No rumors of one, but saying they could see it happening.
I would give the Panthers pick, maybe throw in a prospect too, but not #5.
Yeah, no way you get good value back and it's not like they're expensive (relatively speaking)
I'm not as high on either as I was on draft day, of course - but I'm surprised so many are down on Kakko. I think he's going to be a 70-80 point player. He's getting better and feels on the verge of putting it altogether. He needs more ice time and powerplay time. He also deserves significant PK time too as well.
Link - ( New Window )
Sounds like a lot of what I have been saying but very interesting (and way too long, lol)
Interesting stuff. Thank you for posting.
This was buried at the bottom of the piece, but there was a note about Valiquette making a comment about Laf's training. Someone on HF commented he came into camp with 24% body fat, which does not sound right just looking at the guy. But it's concerning Vally felt the need to say that.
This was buried at the bottom of the piece, but there was a note about Valiquette making a comment about Laf's training. Someone on HF commented he came into camp with 24% body fat, which does not sound right just looking at the guy. But it's concerning Vally felt the need to say that.
it was during COVID, so who knows, but that doesn't sound right to me either.
Peter Laviolette is considered the safe choice
Kris Knoblauch's hat is in the ring
Rangers doing homework on Mike Babcock
get fired?
get fired?
I believe the hypothetical is that if Toronto cleans house, Dubas is the likely 1A choice for the Pens GM gig, and he could potentially want Keefe as his HC.
A lot of "ifs" involved, and it all comes down to a lot more than an "I want Sullivan" tantrum from Dolan.
Knoblouch would be my second choice at this point unless there's someone else I'm missing.
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shake loose exactly?
get fired?
I believe the hypothetical is that if Toronto cleans house, Dubas is the likely 1A choice for the Pens GM gig, and he could potentially want Keefe as his HC.
A lot of "ifs" involved, and it all comes down to a lot more than an "I want Sullivan" tantrum from Dolan.
Makes sense, the two teams were built similarly though maybe the main difference between TOR and PIT is Sullivan. So bringing Keefe to PIT just creates the same thing they had in TOR but south of the border.
Both top heavy teams, super high end stars, who struggled in net (to an extent though MAF is better than any TOR goalie under Dubas - and funny they brought in Matt Murray - the guy who ended MAF in PIT), and struggled to fill out the bottom of the roster due to top heaviness/cap.
Also, Sullivan signed an extension through 2026-2027. That's a lot of coin to eat if it works like I think it does, for the privilege of firing the best coach in the league (or one of them).
Pour one out for the long lost Jon in NJ.
Dan Bylsma, I think? Yinz got a first-rounder out of it.
Can’t say who I’d go with. Laviolette was said to have embraced data and what it offers during his time in Washington but the Caps didn’t exactly prove that on the ice during his tenure. And if you want a stern taskmaster, that’s unlikely to be a first-timer behind the bench."
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Penguins should be tearing down. Maybe Sullivan asks out and something could be done. I can't remember the last time an NHL HC was traded.
Dan Bylsma, I think? Yinz got a first-rounder out of it.
Never mind. Bylsma had already been fired and the Yinz got a third rounder.
I'd form my opinion of him based on PHI, NSH or CAR - like him or not - just saying i wouldn't use WAS as the basis.
3 trips to the cup, 1 win is the ultimate record to look at too.
There isn't an obvious fit. Gallant was obvious a couple years ago.
Good research, Greg.
If you want a guy strictly who can develop young players I'd say look at the former player route.
Martin St. Louis turned Cole Caufield and Nick Suzuki into stars. Caufield was in the AHL and went a month of the season without scoring (sound familiar?) and then was on a 50 goal pace before being injured. He still had 36 points in 46 games (26 goals). He also got more out of Kirby Dach then the prior years in CHI - some people had given up on Dach.
But the Rangers need to win now because they have the ingredients in place, so you need a coach/staff who can get the most out of veteran players (task master/system guy) and at the same time someone to develop young players.
Kind of like a coaching unicorn.
DeBoer has done a good job with this in Dallas even though he inherited some of it but Jason Robertson and Wyatt Johnston are as good a young duo as there is in the league. but until he wins a cup he'll have the good not great label. 0 - 2 in cup finals, but a .560 playoff winning percentage.
Not sure if that totally prevents him from taking a head coaching job elsewhere, but he seems to be the heir apparent in LA.
McLellan I think is doing ok, but he'll be in year 5 this year, so I think he'll be on the hot seat.
From the Athletic in the summer of 2021:
Rangers also could have flipped Z for assets and used that in place of Chytil.
Also, I don't really care about small markets winning Cups/advancing, etc., but the Rangers should have a huge advantage in player development/analytics/etc. And these teams with smaller budgets seem to be outclassing them. Frustrating.
From the Athletic in the summer of 2021:
Quote:
There’s no question that Filip Chytil is going to be available — where the hell is he going to play with all the grit guys Drury brought in? — and that there will be two other prospects (Kravtsov, Nils Lundkvist, Matthew Robertson, Zac Jones) and perhaps a first and/or Alexandar Georgiev.
Rangers also could have flipped Z for assets and used that in place of Chytil.
Also, I don't really care about small markets winning Cups/advancing, etc., but the Rangers should have a huge advantage in player development/analytics/etc. And these teams with smaller budgets seem to be outclassing them. Frustrating.
Eichel was a risk, I mean he's a better player than Mika overall, but he had a pretty serious neck injury and the treatment for it was heavily debated.
It would have been a bold move, and maybe the right one, but I can't fault Drury for it too much. Mika is a good player.
I think the the Kreider extension and Panarin contract (both Gorton moves I think) are preventing the Rangers from doing other things, not the Mika contract.
But where I actually want to go is why not Mika and Eichel? It just means no Trocheck (obviously) and no Chytil extension - which you know my opinion, Chytil is not a center anyway, not long term (due to face offs) and he's probably in the trade. Those two make $8M and you're almost to Eichel ($10M) and then NYR have a center duo that rivals the best in the league.
Eichel/Z was do-able too, I guess. No Trocheck, no Goodrow probably. That would have been interesting. The names thrown out for Eichel have turned into shit. The cap part would have been hard.
Eichel/Z was do-able too, I guess. No Trocheck, no Goodrow probably. That would have been interesting. The names thrown out for Eichel have turned into shit. The cap part would have been hard.
Paying Mika to 2030 is definitely not ideal as well as giving him full NMC. I'd have prioritized one or the other, term or NMC, not both, but I have never had to negotiate a contract so I'm talking out of my ass.
He'll be 36 or 37 when this contract ends.
Yep. I’m interested. He, Jay Leach or maybe Knoblauch.
@StapeAthletic
Hearing that #NYR has let Jim Ramsay go. Athletic trainer for the team since 1994, worked several Olympics as Team Canada's head trainer.
We were like the most healthy team in the league. WTF sense does this make?
Babcock has some support in the Rangers' front office. Maybe from AGM Ryan Martin, since they were in Detroit together.
Link - ( New Window )
If Drury feels secure, then he can pick anyone, but that's how I view it.
Not too many GM's putting their future in the hands of a first time head coach IMO.