So what's next? I'm with Brett. I think both Gallant and Drury need to go. Two straight years of blowing a 2-0 series lead and having your team no-show. Unacceptable.
But I think Drury is our new Sather and I think Gallant will be retained, but Mike Kelly will "retire". I'd rather have Gallant than Sutter, Julien and even Laviolette. The two "retreads" who intrigue me most: Andrew Brunette (DUI and all) and Joel Quenneville. Will Coach Q ever get another HC job again? IDK, doesn't seem like it, but he would definitely be an upgrade at HC.
As for the players...lots of decisions to be made. Two certainties: Kane should walk, if not retire, and Goodrow is going to be a cap dump.
I think 8 guys are definite returns: 1) Igor, 2) Fox, 3) Lindgren, 4)Kreider, 5) Trouba, 6) Zibanejad, 7) Chytil and 8) Schneider
Laf and K'Andre are RFAs and frankly, I hope they both get offer-sheeted. Kakko? Underwhelming. Trocheck likely is coming back, but it's not a certainty.
I'd bring back Tarasenko on the cheap if he's up for it.
And then there's Panarin, who was by far the most disappointing this series. And this is nothing new. Aside from the Game 7 OT winner against the Yinz last year, he's been fucking terrible in the Playoffs. He has a NMC and a huge salary, so IDK if he's movable, but man, this is a problem. He is a total liability when it comes to the Playoffs.
They need:
A top 6 RW (maybe two)
A top 6 D
Backup goalie
UFAs: Tarasenko, Kane, Motte, Mikkola, Halak
RFAs: Lafreniere, Miller, Hajek, Jones
I wouldn't sign any UFA's except Halak unless it was very team friendly
I'd keep Lafreniere and Miller, Miller I could let go in the right way if I were the Rangers.
The problem going forward is there are NTC's in contracts for Panarin, Trouba & Kreider and there are younger players who have to be signed.
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In comment 16106904 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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With the exception of Zibby and Kreider, I’d do everything in my power to get rid of everyone older than Shesty.
It makes sense if you think they're busts and you believe you can recoup any kind of value for them
If you think they’re busts, why would you think someone else is going to give you anything of value for them? Picks are worthless unless you’re tearing the whole thing down. Players you get back are likely to be older than the ones you’re trading and not particularly good.
...Because other teams may see them as worthy reclamation projects...
The Rangers have another prospect from that same Providence team, also a 5th round pick but in 2021, Jaroslav Chmelar from Czechia, this kid is one I'd keep an eye on, really stood out at the world juniors and is just growing in to his 6'5" 200 pound frame. - see how his sophomore year goes at Providence.
As for prospects, I think Brennan Othmann and Will Cuylle make the team next year. Matthew Robertson, who admittedly I haven't been following very closely, could replace Mikkola on the third pair.
Trying to determine the best route if there's a plan to move on from Gallant.
The problem going forward is there are NTC's in contracts for Panarin, Trouba & Kreider and there are younger players who have to be signed.
Wasn't that the issue when Dolan fired Gordon and JD. If so, and I ten to agree with you, this is an indictment of Drury.
Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
1h
Joel Quenneville hasn’t been officially cleared by the NHL. A formal interview request will likely encourage the commissioners approval. With existing coaching vacancies and speculation around the NYR, Quenneville’s return to a bench is a strong possibility.
Greg Wyshynski
@wyshynski
·
1h
To further Darren’s point: The Quenneville chatter around the Rangers this series was deafening. As was, in the end, the chatter that Gallant could have coached his last NYR game on Monday.
Got to get some salty in there and some finesse out. I'd keep Laf but would be willing to deal Kakko if it helped get a deal done. Now it's clear (as expected) the talk of extending Miller for $6M per was premature, and none of their current RFAs should be breaking the bank this Summer. Drury's got to figure out how to make this team better 5x5 and better built for the playoffs, and shiny (injured) toys like Kane shouldn't be centerpiece moves.
Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
1h
Joel Quenneville hasn’t been officially cleared by the NHL. A formal interview request will likely encourage the commissioners approval. With existing coaching vacancies and speculation around the NYR, Quenneville’s return to a bench is a strong possibility.
Greg Wyshynski
@wyshynski
·
1h
To further Darren’s point: The Quenneville chatter around the Rangers this series was deafening. As was, in the end, the chatter that Gallant could have coached his last NYR game on Monday.
It's a shame it's come to this because Gallant had back-to-back 100+ point seasons with us. Statistically, he has the best W-L record of any Rangers coach. And yeah, only two years in. So from the inside looking in, it would seem like we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.
But you look at the Playoffs. You look at how, not even badly, but how lifeless the Rangers looked last year against the Lightning and this year against the Devils. You see how utterly outcoached he was by Jon Cooper and Lindy Ruff.
Gallant, if fired, will 100% get another HC job. No question about it. And perhaps he will get over that hump of being thoroughly outcoached in the Playoffs. But there's a win-now mentality with the Rangers and they can't afford to keep dicking around like this. They need to develop their youngsters, they need their vets to produce in the Playoffs and yes, they need to win a fucking Cup, especially when you have the best G in the world, a top-5 defenseman, a top-10 C, one of the best PP players in the NHL, etc.
With Quenneville at the helm, that's more likely to happen than with Gallant. Quenneville has been to the mountaintop a few times. He's won it all a few times. He cemented himself as one of the greatest head coaches of this generation. Hiring Quenneville would instill more confidence in this team in not just making the playoffs, but actuallylly making a legitimate run.
Trying to determine the best route if there's a plan to move on from Gallant.
IDK. As an X's and O's guy, he's phenomenal. Like he's legit brilliant. But obviously a lot more goes into head coaching than that.
Trying to determine the best route if there's a plan to move on from Gallant.
Isn't he a goalie coach?
I don't know much about him other than he's a huge Rangers fan, and I'm not sure I've seen a fan become a coach.
It reminds me of if Jack Edwards became the Bruins coach, lol though Valaiquette has a lot more solid analysis than "Marchand caves in Barkov" or "Pasta A-frames along the side wall and dishes to Bergeron"
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If Darren Dreger is tweeting this at 8am it's a good bet he has some insight into what's going on. Then to have Greg Wyshynski add to it, well...
Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
1h
Joel Quenneville hasn’t been officially cleared by the NHL. A formal interview request will likely encourage the commissioners approval. With existing coaching vacancies and speculation around the NYR, Quenneville’s return to a bench is a strong possibility.
Greg Wyshynski
@wyshynski
·
1h
To further Darren’s point: The Quenneville chatter around the Rangers this series was deafening. As was, in the end, the chatter that Gallant could have coached his last NYR game on Monday.
It's a shame it's come to this because Gallant had back-to-back 100+ point seasons with us. Statistically, he has the best W-L record of any Rangers coach. And yeah, only two years in. So from the inside looking in, it would seem like we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.
But you look at the Playoffs. You look at how, not even badly, but how lifeless the Rangers looked last year against the Lightning and this year against the Devils. You see how utterly outcoached he was by Jon Cooper and Lindy Ruff.
Gallant, if fired, will 100% get another HC job. No question about it. And perhaps he will get over that hump of being thoroughly outcoached in the Playoffs. But there's a win-now mentality with the Rangers and they can't afford to keep dicking around like this. They need to develop their youngsters, they need their vets to produce in the Playoffs and yes, they need to win a fucking Cup, especially when you have the best G in the world, a top-5 defenseman, a top-10 C, one of the best PP players in the NHL, etc.
With Quenneville at the helm, that's more likely to happen than with Gallant. Quenneville has been to the mountaintop a few times. He's won it all a few times. He cemented himself as one of the greatest head coaches of this generation. Hiring Quenneville would instill more confidence in this team in not just making the playoffs, but actuallylly making a legitimate run.
Or they promote from within. Knoblauch took the Wolfpack from the dregs of the AHL to now being one win away from the conference finals.
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I do not see Gallant being fired. The Kane deal was a massive mistake, and one that I saw coming. I wanted no parts of him at all. This is like when they acquired Eric Staal and got beat in the first round by Pittsburgh. Rangers already had a guy in Panarin who is basically Kane, and makes $11.5M a year to do nothing. The bottom line is when the Devils raised their game and intensity, the Rangers withered away and didn't battle, didn't contest. Too many finesse players on this roster. The only one who showed up every night was Igor. At the rate the Rangers are going, they will spoil Igors career like they did to Henrik.
The problem going forward is there are NTC's in contracts for Panarin, Trouba & Kreider and there are younger players who have to be signed.
Wasn't that the issue when Dolan fired Gordon and JD. If so, and I ten to agree with you, this is an indictment of Drury.
The Rangers are stuck in contract purgatory thanks to Gorton. The roster is still heavy with Gorton's players. Drury didn't have to get Kane, that smells like it has Sather influence all over it. The roster had too many big names, Tarasenko was more than enough to complement what they had. But for whatever reason this team continues to be mentally fragile, for what feels like forever.
However, the cost for Kane was minimal and he was an improvement IMO over Vesey or Goodrow or whoever else they would have on the RW1 or RW2 spots.
Using Kane as an excuse to fire Drury (or to even highlight a big mistake) or using it as a reason for the Rangers playoff shortcomings is scapegoating.
it was an unnecessary move but a pretty harmless move
Laf has more of an issue skating than Kakko.
They both need to really work on that this offseason.
Just unaware from what I have read, but he probably should have been aware of it.
I hate "death penalties" since I believe in redemption, but I'm not sure if he should coach again, but I'm also not sure I have all the facts or my opinion is right about this.
The Devils built their team the right way. That Hughes contract is incredible. And they are flushed with young prospects who will add value as guys get too pricey.
Rangers were such a slow team. They need more speed and a stronger forecheck.
Drury needs to go. This team hasn't had an outside GM since Sather was hired in 2000. And the franchise has not won shit in that time period, it's not even like the Giants handing Dave Gettleman a job.
THIS IS NOT DOLAN OR SATHER OR DRURY BASHING.
The Rangers DNA even before Dolan was to bring in older "stars" at the end of their primes or careers. It worked once and that's why Mark Messier who is an Edmonton Oiler is a NY Sports god. But it's an awful philosophy for building a championship team. Dolan wants stars. That's who he is. I believe whoever is the Rangers GM is going to operate the way Drury has since he has taken over. I think JD is gone because he didn't fall in line.
Joel Quenneville as the Rangers HC? Are you guys ok with him? I have read a little bit about the Chicago abuse situation and correct me if I'm wrong Quenneville prioritized winning the Cup over doing the right thing in a heinous crime. This is what he said when he resigned in October 2021.
Does Quenneville have to apply for reinstatement?
I think if he's named Rangers coach the NY media will be difficult for him to deal with. Maybe for once having Dolan as owner will be a benefit. He couldn't care less about the media or what anyone thinks.
If I was GM of the Rangers I'd see what I could get back for Adam Fox. He's the only big money contract that doesn't have a NMC.
You're welcome to flame me for wanting to trade Fox but after you do that what would be a realistic return? I think the Rangers roster needs a culture shock. Just my .2.
This!
The Devils built their team the right way. That Hughes contract is incredible. And they are flushed with young prospects who will add value as guys get too pricey.
Rangers were such a slow team. They need more speed and a stronger forecheck.
Drury needs to go. This team hasn't had an outside GM since Sather was hired in 2000. And the franchise has not won shit in that time period, it's not even like the Giants handing Dave Gettleman a job.
Brett, would you mind elaborating why you're so down on Drury? Two years on the job, there's obviously been questionable moves but I think on the whole he's done a solid job and it's been more good than bad. He's much further down the list for me on where I'm looking to make changes. His league-wide reputation seems much stronger than it is with the fan base.
Gallant, on the other hand, absolutely needs to go. This was a very talented roster that the coach couldn't figure out how to make work and adjust as the series went along. You're just delaying the inevitable by bringing him back
The Devils built their team the right way. That Hughes contract is incredible. And they are flushed with young prospects who will add value as guys get too pricey.
Rangers were such a slow team. They need more speed and a stronger forecheck.
Drury needs to go. This team hasn't had an outside GM since Sather was hired in 2000. And the franchise has not won shit in that time period, it's not even like the Giants handing Dave Gettleman a job.
Rangers as a team are not only slow (is speed of play reduceable to a number or short comment on a page; maybe it isn't), but indecisive on the ice (another aspect of play hard to reduce to something on a page) and inaccurate as shooters. The slowest, least decisive, and most inaccurate of them need to go to be replaced with players who are faster, more decisive about what they should be doing out there on both O and D, and more able and accurate in their shooting. Dury has shown he does not understand any of this and is clearly unable to correct what he seems blind to.
Quenneville feels like far too on the nose as a Dolan/Sather shiny toy play.
I'd even go back to the Zibanejad extension, an enormously risky move. I advocated trading Zibanejad and going after Eichel, but I think it was a terrible contract that is going to kill us.
Add in moves like signing Trocheck and Goodrow - they were moves to compete now that are handcuffing us. The trades he make also lead to limitations in the usage of the kids. The development of Laf and Kakko also lands on his shoulders. No powerplay time, shitty minutes, etc. They would be much better players elsewhere.
He got a good return for Lundkvist but it never should have gone that far. Same with Kravtsov. Rumors were the Sabres wanted a first, Lundkvist, and Kravtsov for Eichel. That would have been an insane bargain. He has no idea how to develop young players - this has been an issue for the franchise forever.
I think he did a good job at least year's deadline and with the Lundkvist deal. But the Rangers are good largely because of Igor, Fox, and regular season Panarin. He did nothing to get those players. And now we're two years in with no Cup, a top six full of old, slow players and a narrowing window.
Skating is probably the most correctable thing in hockey. The only thing I notice about Lafreniere is his edge work. Kakko I notice it less.
but my wonder is how much is Rangers skating coach, and how much is Lafreniere.
But also, as a fan, it's hard to not compare Lafreniere with McDavid, Hughes, Crosby, etc. - who are elite skaters with world class edge work and that was never Lafreniere.
I'm not quite as worried about his skating because what he lacks in speed and agility he seems to make up for in strength on the puck.
He's got a sort of gravitational shield that kind of jumps out the way it did with Jagr. Obviously nowhere near that stratosphere of impact on the game thus far, but it's the best thing I can compare it to.
Time for Drury to start over.
THIS IS NOT DOLAN OR SATHER OR DRURY BASHING.
The Rangers DNA even before Dolan was to bring in older "stars" at the end of their primes or careers. It worked once and that's why Mark Messier who is an Edmonton Oiler is a NY Sports god. But it's an awful philosophy for building a championship team. Dolan wants stars. That's who he is. I believe whoever is the Rangers GM is going to operate the way Drury has since he has taken over. I think JD is gone because he didn't fall in line.
Joel Quenneville as the Rangers HC? Are you guys ok with him? I have read a little bit about the Chicago abuse situation and correct me if I'm wrong Quenneville prioritized winning the Cup over doing the right thing in a heinous crime. This is what he said when he resigned in October 2021.
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"I want to express my sorrow for the pain this young man, Kyle Beach, has suffered. My former team, the Blackhawks, failed Kyle and I own my share of that," Quenneville said in a statement to TSN. "I want to reflect on how all of this happened and take the time to educate myself on ensuring hockey spaces are safe for everyone."
Does Quenneville have to apply for reinstatement?
I think if he's named Rangers coach the NY media will be difficult for him to deal with. Maybe for once having Dolan as owner will be a benefit. He couldn't care less about the media or what anyone thinks.
If I was GM of the Rangers I'd see what I could get back for Adam Fox. He's the only big money contract that doesn't have a NMC.
You're welcome to flame me for wanting to trade Fox but after you do that what would be a realistic return? I think the Rangers roster needs a culture shock. Just my .2.
Hughes, Hischer AND Mercer for less than $16MM.
Tom Fitgerald is a magician.
This combined with their inability to carry the puck killed them.
They have continued to move away from players that have played well with Panarin to get guys they think would compliment him.
Need to get back to having a guy like Fast on his wing, D first skater that crashes the net.(and not Goodrow) And he needs to work on hitting the net cause his shot was all over
Time to break up the kid line and add some grit. Meier didnt score but did leave an impact on series. We need someone that can do that. Neither Laf or Kakko effects the game enough when they dont score.
Kane is toast. I understand why they tried it but it did not work out and they pushed the cap so much we couldnt even have someone qualified to akate in his place.
Im done with Gallant.
True, but only if the Rangers ate a lot of his cap hit. No one wants him at anywhere close to the second highest salary in the league after McDavid (well, no one except Dolan).
the thing about Lafreniere was never any individual standout skill, but more the "sum of his parts" kind of player and IMO those players just take longer to develop.
Not making excuses, I have no investment in Lafreniere but my observations were always he did everything well, nothing exceptionally and as a #1 overall pick that's tough.
Also I feel like Shane Wright was way more hyped than Lafreniere and fortunately (seriously I mean it as a good thing for him) Wright fell in the draft. He was basically anointed the top pick in the 2022 draft when he was 14 years old and he's a lot like Lafreniere IMO.
I think both Wright and Lafreniere will go down as good NHL hockey players who have the light bulb come on at some point in their early 20's.
And also, in his draft class, Lafreniere is still 2nd in goals behind only Stutzle who was always a better scoring prospect and as mentioned (like Lucas Raymond) has been helped out by a) being on non-competitive teams and b) having a lot of power play time.
If I was GM of the Rangers I'd see what I could get back for Adam Fox. He's the only big money contract that doesn't have a NMC.
You're welcome to flame me for wanting to trade Fox but after you do that what would be a realistic return? I think the Rangers roster needs a culture shock. Just my .2.
I won’t flame you for the idea, I’ll join you on the “see what they can get” train. While Fox is good, he seems to get lost easily which leads to his turnovers. IMO opinion the Rangers need a bigger “offensive” defenseman similar to Montour or the upcoming Bouchard from Edmonton.
I'd even go back to the Zibanejad extension, an enormously risky move. I advocated trading Zibanejad and going after Eichel, but I think it was a terrible contract that is going to kill us.
Add in moves like signing Trocheck and Goodrow - they were moves to compete now that are handcuffing us. The trades he make also lead to limitations in the usage of the kids. The development of Laf and Kakko also lands on his shoulders. No powerplay time, shitty minutes, etc. They would be much better players elsewhere.
He got a good return for Lundkvist but it never should have gone that far. Same with Kravtsov. Rumors were the Sabres wanted a first, Lundkvist, and Kravtsov for Eichel. That would have been an insane bargain. He has no idea how to develop young players - this has been an issue for the franchise forever.
I think he did a good job at least year's deadline and with the Lundkvist deal. But the Rangers are good largely because of Igor, Fox, and regular season Panarin. He did nothing to get those players. And now we're two years in with no Cup, a top six full of old, slow players and a narrowing window.
Plenty of fair points. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried that we're in danger of having already plateaued. I'll just rattle off some random thoughts and responses.
I don't think the window is closed though. It's tough to extend a window significantly in a league that can't seem to find a way to raise the salary cap. But each GM plays within the same rules and it's not something that should have caught Drury by surprise. I think he's an effective trader. Free agency, much less so. If we buy the idea that Tarasenko/Mikkola was his main deadline idea, and Kane was sort of forced on him, I think he had two relatively effective deadlines overall. Just my opinion, but the Rangers didn't lose this series because of that deadline. Tarasenko was very good. It's a bummer he's unlikely to be back. Let's see if he can clear some space and offload Goodrow
I'll still take Zibanejad over Eichel. I think he's a better player now and what he gives up in age he makes up for with overall durability. There are way bigger issues for this team than Zibanejad at $8.5M a year. But it's an interesting fork in the road that I had forgotten about.
Quantifying the mix of responsibility for Laf and Kakko being solid but not great (yet) is hard to determine. Is it coaching, on the front office, on the players themselves to a certain extent? Hard for me to say that entirely falls on Drury. We'd like them to get more ice time, more powerplay time. But at whose expense? We're all down on Panarin right now, and rightfully so, but the guy puts up 90 points a season without breaking a sweat. It's not like these are high priced busts that are blocking the path of the young kids. I still think Kakko and Lafreniere have good futures here. We also can't ding the team for poor development of young players but not give credit for Chytil, K'Andre, Lindgren, even Fox to a certain extent. Just being fair. There are still solid prospects in the pipeline that we'll need to contribute starting next year.
When you stumble on a vezina and norris winner, the timeline to win gets expedited. Without a doubt, he's put himself in a bit of a bind with the free agency deals he signed with the idea of winning now. Not saying he's been phenomenal. But as long as Fox and Igor are in place, that window is still open as far as I'm concerned and this is still a good roster (although don't ask me what happens if they can't afford to resign Igor in two years, yikes).
One move I think Drury got right was his first big call when he got the job, firing Quinn. Now he's got another big decision on his plate with the Gallant situation. Can't overstate how poor he was when things turned against him in each elimination the last two years. The roster can probably only be tweaked, so he needs to find a coach that can better unlock the group schematically.
Thanks for the follow-up, Brett!
It's mind boggling that Sather is apparently still in the mix when we thought he was retiring in 2016!
I think they could have had a run of contention like Toronto (a team I think is mostly very well built) or TBL and now I think it's going to be a bit shorter.
I think the Kane trade was beyond stupid and showed no hockey sense. Kane was bad this year. The Rangers needed a strong forechecker or a dman.
I don't give the Rangers credit for Fox as he was such a stud immediately. I will give them credit for Miller.
I go back and forth on Chytil because I think they should have given him 2C minutes instead of signing Trocheck. That just felt like a short-sighted move.
I think the Rangers got boxed in with Panarin wanting to come here and the cap due to COVID. But the Rangers really can just never plan ahead. They got so much luck (Fox wanting to come here, Igor turning into what he is, the ping pong balls) but always shoot themselves in the food.
I think teams should look to aim to build a 5 year contention window, even if as a secondary contender, rather than constantly trying to maximize the immediate year.
pj brought up Pierre Luc Dubois. I'd love to have him. But dumb moves like Goodrow and Trocheck mean we can't get him.
In the post game presser, Gallant all but said it ain't about talent. It's about will and work ethic. Rangers don't have either.
I don't want to sound like an entitled fan that "expects" championships but the way this roster was built and how the playoffs started, I thought we were in for another run similar to last year. Obviously, putting things in perspective there a much more important things in life than sports teams' success but I was just hoping for a bit of joy amongst a crappy year.
Apologies Gentlemen, I don't want to bring the mood down any worse but this feels good to type and share with Rangers fans. I am not the only person who is dealing with a loss. Thank you for the venting space.